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Rare photo pictures young, rebellious Steve Jobs flipping IBM the bird

post #1 of 61
12/30/11 at 9:22am
Thread Starter 
A photo captured nearly 30 years ago and brought to light this week shows a shaggy-haired Steve Jobs, clad in blue jeans and a leather jacket, expressing his affection for then rival IBM while walking the streets of New York City in the lead up to the launch of the first Mac.

Andy Hertzfeld, one of the original members of the Macintosh team that helped pioneer the personal computer revolution alongside Jobs and Steve Wozniak, published the photo to his Google+ page on Thursday in memoriam of the late Apple co-founder and his rebellious spirit.

The 28-year-old Jobs had flown to New York City with Hertzfeld for a quick meeting with Newsweek in December of 1983, as the publication was putting together a cover story for the launch of the Macintosh the following month.

"The photo was taken spontaneously as we walked around Manhattan by Jean Pigozzi, a wild French jet setter who was hanging out with us at the time," Hertzfeld said. "Somehow I ended up with a copy of it."



Although his editor begged him to include the photo in his 2004 book Revolution in The Valley, Hertzfeld admitted that he was "too timid" to ask Jobs for permission, especially given that IBM was still supplying processors to Apple for its Mac product line at the time.
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post #2 of 61
12/30/11 at 9:28am
Flicking stuff off could be the next internet meme... or has it always been one?


edit: Fine, I'll start it off...

"Blank! BLANK! You're not looking at the big picture!"

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"Blank! BLANK! You're not looking at the big picture!"

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post #3 of 61
12/30/11 at 9:35am
Perhaps Steve was just buying IBM a Wild Turkey?

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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post #4 of 61
12/30/11 at 9:36am
Funny how the comments from some posters would look down on a young Steve Jobs...or ironic...or both.
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post #5 of 61
12/30/11 at 9:38am
People who want to become famous need great ennemies to point at. For Steve/Apple, IBM was the first, then came Microsoft. The only one I can think of to play that part is Samsung. After this, there will be none left ...
www.umrk.fr "I, umrk, hereby testifies that this is the true, complete and unaltered record of what the WiFi Base Station of the Orbe of Time transmitted to my iPad, while I was staying on the...
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www.umrk.fr "I, umrk, hereby testifies that this is the true, complete and unaltered record of what the WiFi Base Station of the Orbe of Time transmitted to my iPad, while I was staying on the...
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post #6 of 61
12/30/11 at 9:39am
Stay classy, Steve.
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post #7 of 61
12/30/11 at 9:53am
I like the side-shot better:

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post #8 of 61
12/30/11 at 10:01am
Flipping off the camera is a classic meme. I have a friend who hasn't been photographed in 20 years where he didn't have at least 1 middle finger extended
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post #9 of 61
12/30/11 at 10:05am
His name is Hertzfeld, not Hertzfield.
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post #10 of 61
12/30/11 at 10:12am
Big deal....he's just a young guy having a little fun. Let's not make a big deal out of it. It's actually great to see Jobs in a photo where he's not being so serious.
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post #11 of 61
12/30/11 at 10:13am
Anyone else find it ironic that Hertzfeld posted this on his Google+ account? If Jobs was around he'd be doing the same thing at Google HQ as he is in this photo.
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post #12 of 61
12/30/11 at 10:13am
Blue, purple or pink?
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post #13 of 61
12/30/11 at 10:15am
There was a better high resolution version of this photo that was floating around a few months ago that got pulled, was also color, it was super high resolution, wish I had downloaded it.
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post #14 of 61
12/30/11 at 10:27am


Ahh...

That's just a picture....

This was on live nationwide TV during Monday Night Football (1972). The commentary is by Frank Gifford, Howard Cosell and Dandy Don Meridth:

Houston Oilers fan

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #15 of 61
12/30/11 at 10:33am
True enemies need to be flawed or evil, and IBM were not and are not. Yes, they appear boring, however not in reality:

1. Their products are exceptionally reliable - hence you see pre Lenovo Think Pads in use still today. In fact, I would happily pay for a ThinkPad that ran OS X for that superb keyboard!
2. IBM put a lot of effort into ergonomics - again, consider our love of clicky keyboards, starting with the IBM PC, and the excellent ThinkPad keyboards.
3 Exceptional industrial design - their contemporary desktop machines and the ThinkPads were superb, very well built and sexy too.
4. IBM innovate, from modular computers, the ThinkPad butterfly keyboard (short lived I know) and others - not to mention their bleeding edge Chess playing mainframes.
5. Superb advertising.
6. Renowned customer service, hence the phrase, "No one ever got fired for choosing IBM." (Or similar.)
7. Research labs that have contributed to a lot of what goes into Apple products!

In other words, IBM are a respectable competitor, but in no way evil or boring.

@gofonebox
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post #16 of 61
12/30/11 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

Anyone else find it ironic that Hertzfeld posted this on his Google+ account? If Jobs was around he'd be doing the same thing at Google HQ as he is in this photo.

Hypocritical that Google allows photos like this on Google+, but not if it's your personal profile picture.
Would someone like to photoshop the IBM to "Google"? That would look real nice in color!

btw: I've seen this photo before--it hasn't been hidden for 30 years.
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post #17 of 61
12/30/11 at 10:44am
I saw the photo about a year ago on Google images...doing a search for "Steve Jobs 80s" so it didn't "Just come out" it's been up online and available via Internet for awhile. Maybe somebody just posted it on a widely viewed news blog or mailed it around to 100 people for the first time.
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post #18 of 61
12/30/11 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oflife View Post

True enemies need to be flawed or evil, and IBM were not and are not. Yes, they appear boring, however not in reality:

1. Their products are exceptionally reliable - hence you see pre Lenovo Think Pads in use still today. In fact, I would happily pay for a ThinkPad that ran OS X for that superb keyboard!
2. IBM put a lot of effort into ergonomics - again, consider our love of clicky keyboards, starting with the IBM PC, and the excellent ThinkPad keyboards.
3 Exceptional industrial design - their contemporary desktop machines and the ThinkPads were superb, very well built and sexy too.
4. IBM innovate, from modular computers, the ThinkPad butterfly keyboard (short lived I know) and others - not to mention their bleeding edge Chess playing mainframes.
5. Superb advertising.
6. Renowned customer service, hence the phrase, "No one ever got fired for choosing IBM." (Or similar.)
7. Research labs that have contributed to a lot of what goes into Apple products!

In other words, IBM are a respectable competitor, but in no way evil or boring.

@gofonebox

No offence, but this sounds kind of trite.

IBM was doing some truly evil stuff back then and they most definitely were the "enemy" of the new personal computer movement epitomised by people like Jobs at the time.

IBM like Samsung is a lot of different things at different times. At this particular time they were an evil, anti-consumer behemoth that was dominating and controlling the market place for no particularly good reason.
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post #19 of 61
12/30/11 at 11:00am
Rare?

This photo has been bouncing around the internet for a long time now.
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post #20 of 61
12/30/11 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ort View Post

Rare? This photo has been bouncing around the internet for a long time now.

Not the straight-on one. Just the angled one.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #21 of 61
12/30/11 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanFruniken View Post

Blue, purple or pink?

It was the 80's so I assume all of them. Together. Zubaaz style.
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post #22 of 61
12/30/11 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oflife View Post

True enemies need to be flawed or evil, and IBM were not and are not. Yes, they appear boring, however not in reality:

1. Their products are exceptionally reliable - hence you see pre Lenovo Think Pads in use still today. In fact, I would happily pay for a ThinkPad that ran OS X for that superb keyboard!
2. IBM put a lot of effort into ergonomics - again, consider our love of clicky keyboards, starting with the IBM PC, and the excellent ThinkPad keyboards.
3 Exceptional industrial design - their contemporary desktop machines and the ThinkPads were superb, very well built and sexy too.
4. IBM innovate, from modular computers, the ThinkPad butterfly keyboard (short lived I know) and others - not to mention their bleeding edge Chess playing mainframes.
5. Superb advertising.
6. Renowned customer service, hence the phrase, "No one ever got fired for choosing IBM." (Or similar.)
7. Research labs that have contributed to a lot of what goes into Apple products!

In other words, IBM are a respectable competitor, but in no way evil or boring.

@gofonebox

I...

Words fail me.
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post #23 of 61
12/30/11 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oflife View Post

ThinkPads sexy



"Oh, baby yes, gimmie some of that actual, physical key oh, yes, you can tray load me and draw on me with a stylus ANY time"

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #24 of 61
12/30/11 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-Daddy View Post

Stay classy, Steve.

folks have called him crazy, smart and profitable. But no one ever claimed he was classy.
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post #25 of 61
12/30/11 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oflife View Post

True enemies need to be flawed or evil, and IBM were not and are not. Yes, they appear boring, however not in reality:

1. Their products are exceptionally reliable - hence you see pre Lenovo Think Pads in use still today. In fact, I would happily pay for a ThinkPad that ran OS X for that superb keyboard!

True. They were also exceptionally expensive

2. IBM put a lot of effort into ergonomics - again, consider our love of clicky keyboards, starting with the IBM PC, and the excellent ThinkPad keyboards.

I'll grant you that. In the early PC era IBM peripherals were certainly more ergonomic than the junk made by their competitors back then.

3 Exceptional industrial design - their contemporary desktop machines and the ThinkPads were superb, very well built and sexy too.

Their desktop machines sentenced themselves to death by using the proprietary Microchannel technology that was incompatible ( and more expensive ) than anything else. IBM still did not recognize that the era of totally incompatible hardware was at an end.

4. IBM innovate, from modular computers, the ThinkPad butterfly keyboard (short lived I know) and others - not to mention their bleeding edge Chess playing mainframes.

Their bleeding edge mainframes were history by the time Steve Jobs came along.

5. Superb advertising.

Gotta disagree with this one. Other than sponsoring Golf tournaments they didn't do much advertising at all. They were dwarfed by the advertising Microsoft did then and Apple does now. The few TV commercials I saw were embarrassingly bad. Do you remember "How do you do it? PS/2 it" ?

6. Renowned customer service, hence the phrase, "No one ever got fired for choosing IBM." (Or similar.)

Back in the old days, this was true. Their customer service was very good and very expensive. Today, anyone who has had the displeasure of dealing with IBM Global services knows that the situation is reversed.

7. Research labs that have contributed to a lot of what goes into Apple products!

Also, ancient history.

In other words, IBM are a respectable competitor, but in no way evil or boring.

They were a respectable company a great innovator. They've degenerated to a little more than a service bureau that they staff with the cheapest labor they can find in the world and provide the lowest level of service they can get away with. For now, because of their size, they are the only service provider that can handle large multinationals. That business model should carry them a few more decades at most, at which time they'll go they way of the other dinosaurs . By the time Steve Jobs appeared on the scene they had already began their decent from the most respected name in computing to the depths they inhabit today.

@gofonebox

abcde
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post #26 of 61
12/30/11 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ron1701 View Post

abcde

Why not break the quote up? You've made it unreadable.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
Reply
post #27 of 61
12/30/11 at 11:27am
It's kinda funny. In a lot of ways, Apple is now what IBM was back then. Cutting edge tech, market leader, tightly controlled environment, people either loved them or hated them. Not sure how that happened.

So the question is, who is the new Apple?

I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Windows Tablet, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 Linux HTPC

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

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I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Windows Tablet, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 Linux HTPC

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

Reply
post #28 of 61
12/30/11 at 11:27am
Well, I was pretty young back then so I cannot comment on what IBM were up to.

Interested to learn more about what you say/claim.

Note that Apple are also exceptionally controlling today. I have used and do use their products since 1990 and there are a lot of issues which most consumers do not realise the flaws in. Let's put it this way, when colleagues of mine (educated techies, not dumb dumbs), try a Mac after any other platform, they are horrified at the GUI and lockin that is iTunes. And as a UX guy, I concur.

Not to mention the impossibility of exchanging content properly (properly!) between Apple products and devices. A total nightmare. I'm forced to use DropBox or a USB drive. I could go on.

Neither of the above examples are evil, just usability issues, but there are a few other matters too, but probably no different than any other corporate bohemoth.

Don't forget, Apple are now the world's largest company!



>IBM was doing some truly evil stuff back then and they most definitely were the "enemy" of the new >personal computer movement epitomised by people like Jobs at the time.
> IBM like Samsung is a lot of different things at different times. At this particular time they were an >evil, anti-consumer behemoth that was dominating and controlling the market place for no >particularly good reason.[/QUOTE]
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post #29 of 61
12/30/11 at 11:40am
Watch this Apple vs. IBM "Blue Busters" ad from 1984 to get the real feeling for how Apple internal felt about IBM during this era. IBM truly was the enemy back then, Microsoft was actually Apple's friend back then, making many of the early apps for the Macintosh.

Apple vs. IBM "Blue Busters":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=-KOnfN-ZDrs
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post #30 of 61
12/30/11 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oflife View Post

True enemies need to be flawed or evil, and IBM were not and are not. Yes, they appear boring, however not in reality:

1. Their products are exceptionally reliable - hence you see pre Lenovo Think Pads in use still today. In fact, I would happily pay for a ThinkPad that ran OS X for that superb keyboard!

That and the little red mouse joystick thing that was exceptionally more reliable and more accurate than touchpads are IMO.
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post #31 of 61
12/30/11 at 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Why not break the quote up? You've made it unreadable.

If he was on his phone it might have been too hard to break it into so many quotes. But im just guessing? Otherwise, yeah- it was tougher to read

(2) 2010 27" iMac i7, 2012 15" Retina MacBook Pro i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad 4, iPad Mini, (2) iPhone 5, iPod Touch 5, iPod Nano 7
Time Capsule 4, Airport Extreme 5, (3) Apple TV 3

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(2) 2010 27" iMac i7, 2012 15" Retina MacBook Pro i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad 4, iPad Mini, (2) iPhone 5, iPod Touch 5, iPod Nano 7
Time Capsule 4, Airport Extreme 5, (3) Apple TV 3

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post #32 of 61
12/30/11 at 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

No offence, but this sounds kind of trite.

IBM was doing some truly evil stuff back then and they most definitely were the "enemy" of the new personal computer movement epitomised by people like Jobs at the time.

IBM like Samsung is a lot of different things at different times. At this particular time they were an evil, anti-consumer behemoth that was dominating and controlling the market place for no particularly good reason.

Can you point to some specific citations of IBM evil actions?

I worked in data processing for companies* who used IBM Accounting Machines and Computers from 1956-1963.

* Pensick & Gordon, Consolidated Electrodynamics/Bell & Howell, Lockheed, Hoffman Electronics

Then I worked for IBM Data Processing Division (Maimframe Computer Technical Marketing Support) as a System Engineer... Headquarters rep from 1063-1980.

Then had IBM as both a Customer and Supplier for our computer stores from 1978-1989.

In those 33 years I never saw or heard of IBM doing anything "evil".

Indeed, even though IBM held 97% of the mainframe computer market -- the were deemed not to be an illegal monopoly because they had attained that position by providing excellent products, marketing and support.

In fact, when we started the computer stores, we borrowed several principles from IBM:

1) Return a profit to our investors
2) Provide the best possible products and services to our customers
3) Have Fun
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #33 of 61
12/30/11 at 12:46pm
Steve was just pointing at the I Buy Mac's sign.

His index finger was hurt from typing on an Apple II keyboard.

I had the same finger problem later pointing at the More Sh*t sign in
C-at-tell.
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post #34 of 61
12/30/11 at 12:49pm
For all those claiming there was friction between Apple and IBM...

Shortly after Apple went public, Steve was very full of himself and claimed Apple was going to be so successful that they would buy Xerox and IBM.

Just what computers do you thing Apple used to run their business from 1978 on...

Hint it wasn't Apple ][, CDC, Cray, NCR, Burroughs, Sperry Rand, DEC...
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #35 of 61
12/30/11 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

For all those claiming there was friction between Apple and IBM...

Shortly after Apple went public, Steve was very full of himself and claimed Apple was going to be so successful that they would buy Xerox and IBM.

Just what computers do you thing Apple used to run their business from 1978 on...

Hint it wasn't Apple ][, CDC, Cray, NCR, Burroughs, Sperry Rand, DEC...

HP ? I think Woz may have had one.
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post #36 of 61
12/30/11 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeNsteinNo View Post

HP ? I think Woz may have had one.

Nope...

Here ya' go:

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #37 of 61
12/30/11 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

...
Then I worked for IBM Data Processing Division (Maimframe Computer Technical Marketing Support) as a System Engineer... Headquarters rep from 1063-1980.

So were you the one responsible for compiling the Battle of Hastings statistics?
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post #38 of 61
12/30/11 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

1) Return a profit to our investors
2) Provide the best possible products and services to our customers
3) Have Fun

I don't know much about IBM, but I for one don't much like like to be a customer to a business that places profit above creating a valuable product or service. You could argue that's the nature of business, but I don't agree, and I think the difference is a focus on making a quick buck right now, versus building a great product for the future.

I recently helped my mom look at washers, and was really apalled by the selection of non-commercial washers (which were only a few factors out of budget). There was zero innovation, like they put their "features" in a hat, pulled out a few, and called it new, some were missing good last-year features, and others had who-would ever use that features. We ended up with a washer that is pretty "meh, what can you do."

A few companies in the tablet business seem to be caught with their pants down because they were only focusing on the money now instead of the future. Maybe the same will happen in the tv business, we'll see.

Jobs was famous for never giving dividends, and there's articles all the time about how "undervalued" apple is for investors. Tim's position remains to be seen, but I hope that sees valuable products as the primary focus at apple.
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post #39 of 61
12/30/11 at 2:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oflife View Post

Well, I was pretty young back then so I cannot comment on what IBM were up to.

Yes, you can. You just need to read about the IBM monopoly and anti-trust cases.
(What is it with the lack of mentality in so many people?)

Apple is nowhere near the place where IBM and Microsoft have been.


Quote:
Don't forget, Apple are now the world's largest company!

Uh, no, Apple is the most-valued company--highest share price X number of outstanding shares. Apple is far from being the largest employer or biggest producer.
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post #40 of 61
12/30/11 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

So were you the one responsible for compiling the Battle of Hastings statistics?

Sorry for the typo.

Actually, the story is a bit sadder than that...

I went to work for IBM in the Riverside, CA Branch Office in November 1963. Immediately, I went to a 2-week class on the IBM 1410 at the IBM building on Wilshire Blvd. (next to the Ambassador Hotel) in LA.

Our class ended early that Friday so I drove the 60 miles back to the Riverside Branch. It was a real weird drive -- cars weaving all over the freeway or pulling off to the side (my car didn't have a radio)...

When I got to the Branch, there were no cars in the parking lot, the back door was ajar, but there was nobody in the building...

I walked around a while and eventually went into the copier/TeleType room...

On the TT was the message that JFK had been assassinated a hour earlier...

I remember thinking: "How can this happen in America?"

Less than 5 years later, RFK was assassinated at the Ambassador Hotel...
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
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