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$299 iPad 2 seen shaking up tablet market, Amazon's Kindle Fire - Page 2

post #41 of 92
Probably not off the table, but I think you got the rest of the chart wrong. I see a 16GB iPad 3 coming out and it's too early for a 128GB model.

Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #42 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

But Apple could be even more aggressive and price the iPad 2 even less, potentially at $349 or even as low as $299, the analysis concluded. A $299 iPad 2 is seen "seriously" affecting Apple's tablet competitors, including the Amazon Kindle Fire, which has created a new low-end tablet market with its $199 price.

This is precisely what I've been saying. And $299 for an 8GB iPad 2 doesn't seem unrealistic if the new $499 iPad 3 packs twice the storage, twice the processors and twice the resolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cajun View Post

It may be another year before Apple formally addresses the Kindle Fire threat. The Fire is a nice toy, but the Fire only emphasizes what a value the iPad is.

Unfortunately for Apple the Kindle Fire and the Playbooks/TouchPads being fire-saled may have diminished the perceived value of what a tablet device should cost. I don't believe Apple can afford to spend another year with their budget iPad priced at $499. People may start settling for these cheap 7" dead-end Android tablets, perceiving them as "good enough" for their needs, just as they did with the Windows PC in the 90's.
post #43 of 92
So, what, do we keep fighting for the reasonable and sane 16GB iPad 2 at $399 or do we just sit back and let people whine about how Apple "lied to them" and how they're "mad at Apple for not releasing an 8GB iPad at $299" when it finally doesn't come out?

Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #44 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post


Kindle is more comparable to the iPod touch. All Apple needs to do is create a larger version of the iPod; 6-7".



What, other than the screen size, are the major differences between an iPad and an iTouch?

ISTM that they are the same damn thing, but with different screen sizes.
post #45 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So, what, do we keep fighting for the reasonable and sane 16GB iPad 2 at $399 or do we just sit back and let people whine about how Apple "lied to them" and how they're "mad at Apple for not releasing an 8GB iPad at $299" when it finally doesn't come out?

Do you really believe an 12-month old iPad with 1024x768 screen/dual-core A5 chip should only be $100 cheaper than a brand new iPad with 2048x1536 screen/Quad-core A6 chip?
post #46 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Do you really believe an 12-month old iPad with 1024x768 screen/dual-core A5 chip should only be $100 cheaper than a brand new iPad with 2048x1536 screen/Quad-core A6 chip?

I'm not foolish enough to think that the decision is mine nor anyone's outside of Apple. It just doesn't matter. Do YOU really believe you know exactly how much each iPad costs Apple and that their pricing isn't justified? Do YOU have any evidence to support your "drop by $200 in one go" theory?

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post #47 of 92
Depending upon what the ipad 3 turns out to be, ie quad core cpu with retina display, I'm not sure that the iPad 2 at $399 would sell that well or blunt sales of the Kindle Fire.

It probably would make an upsell to an iPad 3 easier but Apple really ought to try to take some of the momentum out of the Kindle Fire. If a $299 iPad 2 isn't achievable for Apple then hopefully they'll get it down to $349 or $329.
post #48 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So, what, do we keep fighting for the reasonable and sane 16GB iPad 2 at $399 or do we just sit back and let people whine about how Apple "lied to them" and how they're "mad at Apple for not releasing an 8GB iPad at $299" when it finally doesn't come out?

That's exactly what's going to happen. Apple is always expected to meet every inane prediction from every analyst/blogger out there and if they fail to do so, the stock craters.
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post #49 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's exactly what's going to happen. Apple is always expected to meet every inane prediction from every analyst/blogger out there and if they fail to do so, the stock craters.

Bingo. I contemplated not putting the wink at the end because of that, but whatever. I guess this way it allows people to read it however they wish.

Originally Posted by Marvin

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Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #50 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Probably not off the table, but I think you got the rest of the chart wrong. I see a 16GB iPad 3 coming out and it's too early for a 128GB model.

It's my personal wish list for the next iPads, replacing the 16GB with 32GB at the same price

I don't have a lot of apps on my ipad2 16 but since most the apps I use are between 200MB and 1GB per file, with 4GB of music and pictures, and voila already out of space.. no videos or anything else

between gaming, books, mails, music, video, documents and more, storage became a real problem since with all iPad usage lately, even with iCloud I find little boring to remove and download every time when I run out of space, I think it's time for Apple to launch model with 128GB and consider replacing the 16GB with 32GB.
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post #51 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Do YOU really believe you know exactly how much each iPad costs Apple and that their pricing isn't justified?

Of course not

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Do YOU have any evidence to support your "drop by $200 in one go" theory?

Evidence, no. Deduction yes.

1. When the iPad 2 was released, Apple and its resellers were clearing out original iPads at $349 - that means after 12 months of being on the market they could cut the price by $150 and still turn a profit.

2. We know from iSuppli teardown's that Apple is incredibly good at keeping their costs consistent; what the iPhone 4S cost in parts at launch is almost exactly what the iPhone 4 cost in parts when it launched. Knowing that, it should be safe to say that whatever Apple packs into the iPad 3, their cost will be consistent with what the iPad 2 cost them the year prior.

3. At this juncture, it's almost a given that the iPad 3 will pack a Quad-core A6 and Retina display - double the performance and resolution of the iPad 2. The iPad thus far has been using the same screen for 2 years; and at this point has got to be relatively inexpensive. the A6 will likely cost Apple this year what the A5 cost them last year, just as the A5 cost them last year what the A4 cost them the year prior.

For these reasons, I believe Apple could sell the current $499 iPad 2 for $349, if they wanted to. And by cutting the storage to 8GB I believe they could shave another $50 off that price - but more for strategy than component costs (Apple has a habit of crippling their entry level model to make it less desirable - especially true when the price is tempting). Offering an older model for $399 when the iPad 3 starts at $499 would be more trouble than it's worth for Apple, logistically. The price difference wouldn't be enough to nab any new markets, as it'd still be twice the price of a Kindle Fire.
post #52 of 92
For those who said Apple won't sell iPad2 for $299 this Spring, remember iPad1? It was sold for $299 for about a week when iPad2 launched, although it's only through AT&T/Verizon and it's because of clearance.
post #53 of 92
I think they should start releasing a 128gb iPad model. It is the third generation..and there are many people who do consider iPads to be personal computers. Personally I'm fine with a 16gb model but I know the more advanced each generation gets the more memory people will probably want and/or need.
post #54 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Of course not


Evidence, no. Deduction yes.

1. When the iPad 2 was released, Apple and its resellers were clearing out original iPads at $349 - that means after 12 months of being on the market they could cut the price by $150 and still turn a profit.

For these reasons, I believe Apple could sell the current $499 iPad 2 for $349, if they wanted to. And by cutting the storage to 8GB I believe they could shave another $50 off that price - but more for strategy than component costs (Apple has a habit of crippling their entry level model to make it less desirable - especially true when the price is tempting). Offering an older model for $399 when the iPad 3 starts at $499 would be more trouble than it's worth for Apple, logistically. The price difference wouldn't be enough to nab any new markets, as it'd still be twice the price of a Kindle Fire.

You do understand the concept of "clearance," don't you? They don't want to have lingering inventories of old product getting in the way of new product sales, so they forego a larger margin to clear stocks. It's not a long-term business model.

Apple will not produce a 8GB tablet. It just won't happen.
post #55 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsimpsen View Post

The market has already answered your question for you, the Vita is in serious trouble.

Methinks consumers are hitting shark infested waters with cherry picked negative headlines now being the norm.
post #56 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandyf View Post

Apple is currently selling their refurbished 16GB iPad2 for $419. Can't see them selling it new for $299, even if it's last years model. But it would be sweet!

I agree. Just recently, we saw the cost of components and manufacturing for the iPad 2. It was around $281 or something wasn't it? So this analyst figures Apple will make $8 on each one and pay their sales team too?
post #57 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So, what, do we keep fighting for the reasonable and sane 16GB iPad 2 at $399 or do we just sit back and let people whine about how Apple "lied to them" and how they're "mad at Apple for not releasing an 8GB iPad at $299" when it finally doesn't come out?

8gb would be useless..too little storage for a tablet.

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post #58 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylove22 View Post

8gb would be useless..too little storage for a tablet.

Oh, good! That's one. Now only a couple thousand to go.

Originally Posted by Marvin

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Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #59 of 92
  1. Is Apple able to produce so many iPads compared to what they can sell that dropping the price by $200 reasonable to make more money?
  2. Are those clamoring for a $300 iPad doing so becuase it's just above the Nook Color and Kindle Fire? Let me remind you they have 40% of the display area and are vastly limited compared to any iPad.
  3. What does a $300 iPad bring to Apple that they aren't already getting with a $500 iPad. We already know the price point shocked the industry back in 2010 and that no one else was able to compete with them which is why we have 7" models trying to find a niche for an equivalent price.
  4. Doesn't offering a $300 tablet go against the $100 stepping rule Apple uses and locks out a chance for a 5-8" iPod Touch that can fit within that $200 3.5" iPod Touch and $500 iPad?

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post #60 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectroTech View Post

I agree. Just recently, we saw the cost of components and manufacturing for the iPad 2. It was around $281 or something wasn't it? So this analyst figures Apple will make $8 on each one and pay their sales team too?

Not sure, but last March the 32GB 3G/Wi-Fi iPad 2 had a bill of materials of $326.60. That's the model they sell for $729. The Wi-Fi-only 16GB model would obviously be considerably cheaper, even back in March.


Quote:
Originally Posted by daylove22 View Post

8gb would be useless..too little storage for a tablet.

What makes it any less useless than an 8GB iPhone, of which Apple sells two? I actually use far less storage on my iPad than I do my phone, because my iPhone allows me to have everything with me. There's no reason for all of my music and photos to be loaded onto a WiFi-only iPad that stays at home on the coffee table.
post #61 of 92
AnalystInsider now?

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post #62 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

[LIST=1][*]Is Apple able to produce so many iPads compared to what they can sell that dropping the price by $200 reasonable to make more money?[*]Are those clamoring for a $300 iPad doing so becuase it's just above the Nook Color and Kindle Fire? Let me remind you they have 40% of the display area and are vastly limited compared to any iPad.

I agree entirely. But people are buying $200 7" tablets, thinking they're getting the iPad experience. They are of course very wrong, and haven't used an iPad enough to know any better. But the Kindle Fire shows that this will be a growing problem for Apple. Park a 9.7" iPad model permanently at a sub-$350 pricepoint and I think Apple would see those 7" bottom-feeders die off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

[*]What does a $300 iPad bring to Apple that they aren't already getting with a $500 iPad.

It'd bring Apple the customers who are settling for crappy 7" tablets. More importantly, it'd maintain their market share.
post #63 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Doesn't offering a $300 tablet go against the $100 stepping rule Apple uses and locks out a chance for a 5-8" iPod Touch that can fit within that $200 3.5" iPod Touch and $500 iPad?

Hey, I'm all for locking out a 5-8" device, but I still don't think we'll see a $299 iPad.

Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #64 of 92
I think if they drop the price and also throw in a free pony, they will own the market...
post #65 of 92
128GB SDXC ultra fast cards are already available but even Android tablet makers do not like these.
post #66 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by xSamplex View Post

I think if they drop the price and also throw in a free pony, they will own the market...

That's just silly.

It'll be a horse. You'd have to file your saddle down with sandpaper to use a pony.

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post #67 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That's just silly.

It'll be a horse. You'd have to file your saddle down with sandpaper to use a pony.

And it would squeeze your nuts
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post #68 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandyf View Post

Apple is currently selling their refurbished 16GB iPad2 for $419. Can't see them selling it new for $299, even if it's last years model. But it would be sweet!

I suspect $349 is as low as they might go. But if they follow trend from the iPhone they would only be selling the 16 GB wifi only, not all of them. And given that folks were more than willing to spend $499 and up, how many sales would there be for a 32 GB wifi iPad 3 versus that iPad 2, depending on the changes to the line. I bet not that many

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post #69 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

There's a danger in dropping the current iPad 2 to $299 and putting the better Retina iPad 3 at $499...

---> More people would just get the $299 model instead of the $499 model.

Or not. the 3gs is still on sale (for free even) but we haven't see the 4s suffer in sales. And if the prices of the SSD have gone down to a point that they can up the capacity for the iPad 3 and keep the same margins then it's possible that a $299 iPad 2 wouldn't lose money. It might only break even but that could be fine, especially since its unlikely that that many folks would buy it compared to the new one. Especially iPad 1 users that are upgrading. They will likely all go for the iPad 3. Some schools, a few business etc might go for the iPad 2 but most of those will probably be newcomers and thus its still good to get them in the family even if there's little profit right now.

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post #70 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectroTech View Post

I agree. Just recently, we saw the cost of components and manufacturing for the iPad 2. It was around $281 or something wasn't it?

That information was never confirmed by Apple as correct. Plus for all we know the prices are about to go down.

Quote:
So this analyst figures Apple will make $8 on each one and pay their sales team too?

THey still have the 'apple tax' from the iPad 3, the computers etc. IF they continue selling the iPad 2 it will only be the base line model so that it doesn't conflict with the iPad 3 line up. How many folks are likely to buy that base line even at $299 when for $200 more they could get more capacity, a better camera, a way better screen, siri and so on. Like I said to Michael, perhaps some schools for the kiddies and maybe a few businesses that are using them in house (like restaurants or maybe airlines to rent during flights) but really probably not that many anymore than having a 'free' 3gs has hurt 4s sales

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post #71 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

And if the prices of the SSD have gone down to a point that they can up the capacity for the iPad 3 and keep the same margins then it's possible that a $299 iPad 2 wouldn't lose money.

I posted in another thread the other day that the 128GB NAND SSD are finally being produced as of early December, but those were test runs and it was expected first half of 2012 would be when they would start seeing actual production. Depending on how early in the year they get it, we might see 128 in an iPad 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Especially iPad 1 users that are upgrading. They will likely all go for the iPad 3.

My wife and I have an original iPad. We're both buying a 3 and I know that, for me at least, I'd rather get the newer model than save $100 and wish I had the new model.
post #72 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobouches View Post

Here is some very interesting info (IMHO) this peace of receipt from apple for iPad23g

I can make up one of those too. It's really easy.

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post #73 of 92
Apple thinks strategically and plans the whole product cycle over several years...

This puts Apple in a different position than the copy/catch-up competitors.


When Apple introduced the iPad 1, 2 years ago, it set an aggressive price point for the low-end model. This was less-profitable than the other models -- but it contributed to the iPod's market dominance and economies of scale.

AFAICT, Apple does not release profit per model or even evaluate it that way -- other than to set pricing. Rather, Apple's goal is profit for the iPad family -- realizing some models will be more profitable than others.

Also, some costs like the CPU/GPU SoC PoP, Cameras, SSD, etc. can be amortized across several product lines.


OK, here we are, 2 years later! Apple's combination of aggressive pricing and product capabilities, likely, have met Apple's expectations.

Time to consider the next phase of the strategy...

What combination of price/models/capability/profit/economies of scale will meet Apple's goals for the next 2-3 years.


I suspect, the A6, Retina Display, 128 GB SSD, better cameras, Siri... are where the sweet spot of the market will be in 2.5 years.

What iPad lineup gets Apple to where they want to be?

If Apple can profitably sell a low-end $299 iPad for the next 2 years, that contributes to this goal -- do it!

If Apple can profitably sell a high-end $699 iPad for the next 2 years, that contributes to this goal -- do it!


Edit: Somewhere in all this pile of shit (models and prices) there's are 2 ponies -- the iPad remote and the Personal TV...

...So, better questions might be what comprises a $99 iPad Remote and a $149 iPad Personal TV?

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post #74 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

1. When the iPad 2 was released, Apple and its resellers were clearing out original iPads at $349 - that means after 12 months of being on the market they could cut the price by $150 and still turn a profit.

You don't know that they were still turning a profit. perhaps they weren't.


Quote:

2. We know from iSuppli teardown's

Which was nothing more than a best guess not fact. Apple was buying in huge bulk so perhaps the prices they guessed were far off the mark.

Quote:

3. At this juncture, it's almost a given that the iPad 3 will pack a Quad-core A6 and Retina display -

If by a given you mean "I really really hope" then yes. Otherwise nothing is a given until Apple makes the announcement. No matter how many insider sources someone claims to have

So basically you are deducing based on rumor and unconfirmed information, not fact. Making your deductions just as much of a rumor

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post #75 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

I can make up one of those too. It's really easy.

It wasn't made up. It's the out-of-warranty service fee for that model iPad.
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post #76 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

With iCloud I don't think 8 GB is insane - though I doubt they would go backwards.

They could go for a low cost 8g ipad2 if they add micro-sd for future mem upgrade. Would be a way to compete at the low end market. I would not buy a lock down 8g tablet. They should add SD to there lower end previous year phone with low memory too.
post #77 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobouches View Post

Here is some very interesting info (IMHO) this peace of receipt from apple for iPad23g

Replacement unit price. My 32g wifi ipad2 price was 309$. It was cover by the warranty but that was the price on the bill.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...Fm0?feat=email

Could be a indication of ipad2 cost indeed. So if this is cost they would still turn out a profit with a 8g ipad2 at 299.
post #78 of 92
I regret having to call B.S. on this "rumor" because if it's true the secondary market (eg, Craigslist, eBay) is going to tank the currently inflated price of ~$375 for those perfectly functional iPad 1's down to a hundred bucks, and I can afford to put one in every room. #WINNING.
post #79 of 92
For anyone curious about the $369 bill referenced a few time in this thread, the source is here under "My iPad is not eligible for warranty service. What are my service options?"

http://support.apple.com/kb/index?pa...s&product=ipad
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post #80 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

[...] The prospect of a new entry-level model has been seen by analysts as a way for Apple to counter the Kindle Fire, which Amazon is believed to be selling for a loss in order to push digital content to users.

Amazon (and all other Android pad makers) fear a $299 iPad 2 in 2012.

But it could get worse for the Android wannabes. Apple could do what they did with the iPhone 3GS. They could keep the low-end iPad 2 model around through 2013 at $199. Apple will still be able to clear 30% margins at the $199 price point because they'll be able to amortize the iPad 2 development costs and manufacturing equipment expenditures over 3 years of sales. Try that with the Kindle Fire, Amazon.

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