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Samsung sold about 32 million smartphones in record holiday quarter

post #1 of 106
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When they are announced later this month, Apple's holiday iPhone sales will be most closely compared to rival Samsung, which is estimated to have sold 32 million smartphones in its record setting quarter.

Samsung reported its record earnings on Friday, with its operating profit hitting $4.5 billion in the December quarter on strong sales of its smartphones. But while smartphones were key in Samsung's success during the holidays, actual unit sales of smartphones were not publicly revealed.

Based on the data released by Samsung, Dongbu Securities Co. took a stab and estimated that the company sold 32 million smartphones in the fourth quarter, according to Bloomberg. In all, Samsung is estimated to have sold 300 million handsets -- both smartphones and "feature" phones -- in 2011.

Samsung's numbers will be closely compared to Apple, when the iPhone maker releases its sales figures for the holiday quarter on Tuesday, Jan. 24. The December quarter includes the launch of the iPhone 4S, and Apple executives have already said they expect to set a new record for iPhone sales.

Apple's current record for quarterly iPhone sales is 20.3 million, but industry watchers expect that the company will handily beat that sum in the just-concluded December quarter. Those expectations were bolstered this week when Verizon, the largest wireless carrier in the U.S., revealed it sold 4.2 million iPhones in the last three months of 2011, nearly doubling its previous quarterly figure.



Verizon's strong numbers, along with a record setting pace from AT&T, prompted one Wall Street analyst to forecast that Apple could report sales of 35.3 million iPhones in the December quarter. If that prediction proves accurate, it's a number that would best Samsung's estimated 32 million smartphone sales in the holiday quarter by more than 3 million.
post #2 of 106
They sold 32 million smartphones.

The didn't sell 32 million Android smartphones, nor did they sell 32 million Galaxy phones. Too bad Samsung doesn't give a breakdown by phone type.

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post #3 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

They sold 32 million smartphones.

The didn't sell 32 million Android smartphones, nor did they sell 32 million Galaxy phones. Too bad Samsung doesn't give a breakdown by phone type.

They did announce when the Galaxy 2 crossed the 10M sales mark about 8 weeks in (I think), but you're correct that none of these guys make a habit of breaking down sales by model, not even Apple. That's probably a little bit more detail than any of them feel the need to publicly announce.
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post #4 of 106
^ They sold 3 million GS2's in 55 days and 10 million in the first 5 months, according to Samsung themselves. Add in Galaxy Note sales and you come up far short of 32 million.

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post #5 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

They did announce when the Galaxy 2 crossed the 10M sales mark about 8 weeks in (I think), but you're correct that none of these guys make a habit of breaking down sales by model, not even Apple. That's probably a little bit more detail than any of them feel the need to publicly announce.

It's too bad that Apple doesn't break down their iPhone sales... then we'd know which ones were using iOS...

[that's sarcasm in case anyone didn't get it...]
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post #6 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

^ They sold 3 million GS2's in 55 days and 10 million in the first 5 months, according to Samsung themselves. Add in Galaxy Note sales and you come up far short of 32 million.

Samsung has dozens of iterations of the same phones and tablets, with different names marketed worldwide. They could EASILY sell 32 million when you combine them all. Or are you thinking only in terms of the US?
post #7 of 106
And it should be noted that the boost in Samsung sales and the drop in HTC revenue are probably related... just saying.
post #8 of 106
^ LOL. I have a feeling Apple will break out 4S numbers this earnings call just so they can announce it was a success, and leave the 3GS and 4 lumped for the remaining.

Edit. Directed at island hermit

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post #9 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Samsung has dozens of iterations of the same phones and tablets, with different names marketed worldwide. They could EASILY sell 32 million when you combine them all. Or are you thinking only in terms of the US?

That 10 million was worldwide. They may sell variations, but the only one people talk about is the GS2.

Samsung also sells a lot of cheap smartphones like the Wave, Omnia, Messenger and several that don't even get a name - just a model number. And some phones with the Galaxy name are riding coattails. I saw one at their website with instructions posted how to upgrade to Android 2.1.

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post #10 of 106
I think this is part of SAMSUNG business strategy. What is needed is:

1. What is a smartphone
2. Which OS are allocated to the device [Android [flavors], MS Windows7, and Bada]
3. What is the average selling price per phone
4. What was the profit on the phones
5. How many of each phone or at least in aggregate were sold not shipped

My guess is that what is a smartphone is exaggerated, the profit will be lean on the phones, and shipped versus sold will diminish the real earning.

Only upon developing this kind of data, either from SAMSUNG or by analysts can real assessments be made with Apple and the market in general.

However, buzzy headlines that drive page clicks will probably be the rule of the day. My only hope is Horace at asymco.com will have made a stab at it building the data and making useful comparisons.

This kind of data is really important, as Windows 7 is strongly promoted with Nokia in 2012, there will be a Halo effect to SAMSUNG Windows versions and seeing who gets cannibalized if Windows gets traction will be interesting and important.
post #11 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

They sold 32 million smartphones.

The didn't sell 32 million Android smartphones, nor did they sell 32 million Galaxy phones. Too bad Samsung doesn't give a breakdown by phone type.

Samsung doesn't actually state any numbers at all. We always just compare Apple's stated figures to Analyst estimates about Samsung.
post #12 of 106
This is hilarious: Apple will release actual profits on the iOS devices and their total numbers sold allowing Wall Street to break down it's per phone sale ROI.

Samsung knows their profit margins on their lines are crap. They either think Apple can't possibly evolve due to Steve's passing or by now realize they will never touch Apple's returns and will accept being a member of the race to the bottom in margins.

Apple in 2012 is not Apple in 1985. Without that hiccup in '85 we wouldn't have ever had to deal with Gates dominating like he did. There are no derailments with this ecosystem and deeply rooted breath of talent that will continue to be fostered for decades.

People called us at NeXT arrogant for saying NeXT was buying Apple. The Truth is in the results. The type of talent NeXT brought over rebuilt NeXT as Apple with all it's legacy of reputation and stagnant talent waiting for leadership.

How does everything imagine Microsoft will do when Gates and Balmer actually step down?

P.S. Apple target price has now been raised to $560/share.

http://247wallst.com/2012/01/06/appl...e-target-aapl/
post #13 of 106
The other phone sites are quoting 35 million. Where does AI get their 32 million. Did Oliver get it from d.e.d.?
post #14 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

P.S. Apple target price has now been raised to $560/share.

A price it will never reach.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #15 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

A price it will never reach.

If share split, you may be right ...
post #16 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShepherd View Post

The other phone sites are quoting 35 million. Where does AI get their 32 million. Did Oliver get it from d.e.d.?

are you channelling bettieblue for us today?? The fixation with DED is very amusing, to a point. Fortunately if you actually READ FOR COMPREHENSION you might have discovered this little gem in the article:

Quote:
Based on the data released by Samsung, Dongbu Securities Co. took a stab and estimated that the company sold 32 million smartphones in the fourth quarter, according to Bloomberg.

See - it pays to read carefully before you comment!
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post #17 of 106
Not surprising. No doubt this record will include something like Galaxy Mini which sell for around $120.00 unsubsidized and Wave, and Gio, and Fit, and Punch and etc..etc..
Also no doubt fan boys will come here to make this a sole Galaxy SII number.
post #18 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

A price it will never reach.

it points out the interesting chasm between market predictions and market response: predicting $560 and keeping the P/E low only increases pressure - the question is how/when will it "snap"? Is it the 70% shareholders who are managing funds that are doing this in order to weigh more Apple into their portfolios before releasing the P/E to float where it (ostensibly) belongs?

Or does the market truly punish innovative companies for not behaving like other more predictable companies?

And it is always amusing to see how ernestly Amazon, Google and Samsung report their numbers, but in ways that are effectively useless to analyzing actual performance at a detailed level.
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post #19 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

A price it will never reach.

If $560 is 1.33 times the current price (and also the same s/p on October 18th) and the forward p/e for the last quarter was 10.77 and Tim Cook said that rev* for the holiday quarter would be $37 million / $28 million (last quarter) = 1.32; then couldn't it theoretically climb to $560 (or close to it) if they didn't compress the forward p/e (or trailing) even more.

... or is my math fucked.

Whoops... I forgot that this thread is about Samsung's record number of phones.

We return you to regular programming...

[*this assumes that the correlation between rev and earnings will not differ wildly unless Apple's margins have been drastically reduced]
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post #20 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

They sold 32 million smartphones.

The didn't sell 32 million Android smartphones, nor did they sell 32 million Galaxy phones. Too bad Samsung doesn't give a breakdown by phone type.

Too bad Samsung does not provide any audited data of any kind on their phone or tablet sales.

All we have are estimates put out by consulting-whoevers, and numbers that are wildly inconsistent with collateral data on things such as app sales, web traffic, etc.

Bottom line: I don't believe these sales figures in the least.
post #21 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShepherd View Post

The other phone sites are quoting 35 million. Where does AI get their 32 million. Did Oliver get it from d.e.d.?

It's all FUD anyway, so who cares.
post #22 of 106
Who is the idiot that wrote this article? When Apple announces its iPhone sales, that number is going to be compared with a GUESS by one analyst about how many smartphones Samsung sold? I mean, are you people seeing how ridiculous these types of articles are? Absolutely worthless!

You can't compare a real number with a guess. Where are the real journalists?
post #23 of 106
Please correct me if I am wrong:
- when android was small compared to iOS, the contest was between these two. My recollection is that Android would never be significant
- when android grew bigger, the contest was between individual suppliers. Sansung, hTC, ... would never outgrow Apple
- now that Samsung is the biggest seller, the comparison basis for Android is further narrowed down. How much of the Galaxy S II were sold?

Frankly guys, what do you care? Is it pure frustration that Android got twice as big as iOS in less than 2 years?
post #24 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

It's all FUD anyway, so who cares.

Samsung sells 35 million phones

Apple reports record revenue of $39 billion reporting that it sold 34,999,999 phones

AAPL drops 40 bucks...
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post #25 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Samsung sells 35 million phones

Apple reports record revenue of $39 billion reporting that it sold 34,999,999 phones

AAPL drops 40 bucks...

Androiders have a field day

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #26 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post

Please correct me if I am wrong:
- when android was small compared to iOS, the contest was between these two. My recollection is that Android would never be significant
- when android grew bigger, the contest was between individual suppliers. Sansung, hTC, ... would never outgrow Apple
- now that Samsung is the biggest seller, the comparison basis for Android is further narrowed down. How much of the Galaxy S II were sold?

Frankly guys, what do you care? Is it pure frustration that Android got twice as big as iOS in less than 2 years?

It's great that there is a successful product out there that can compete with Apple. It's good for Apple, and it pushes them harder to continue to be better

My problem with it is that there is only FUD, not actual numbers on Android sales. Apple puts out actual numbers.

I am always suspicious in such situations: they're obviously trying to hide something, and I wonder what that is.
post #27 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Samsung sells 35 million phones

Apple reports record revenue of $39 billion reporting that it sold 34,999,999 phones

AAPL drops 40 bucks...

In a nutshell.
post #28 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Samsung sells 35 million phones

Actually, all we have is: Someone says that someone estimates that Samsung may have shipped 35 million phones....

Btw, Samsung dropped 15,000KW (or ~$13.5) per share in the Korean stock market between yesterday and today.
post #29 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Samsung sells 35 million phones

Apple reports record revenue of $39 billion reporting that it sold 34,999,999 phones

AAPL drops 40 bucks...

Use it as an opportunity to buy more

Apple has 4% market share of mobile phones, 10% for computers, and 0% for TVs. What will the stock price be five years from now?

Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

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post #30 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post

Please correct me if I am wrong:
- when android was small compared to iOS, the contest was between these two. My recollection is that Android would never be significant
- when android grew bigger, the contest was between individual suppliers. Sansung, hTC, ... would never outgrow Apple
- now that Samsung is the biggest seller, the comparison basis for Android is further narrowed down. How much of the Galaxy S II were sold?

Frankly guys, what do you care? Is it pure frustration that Android got twice as big as iOS in less than 2 years?

I think you got it backward. I think it's Android fans who's making up this.. that people believed Android will never be big (in term of number of sale) when it was first launched (I believe it will ultimately outsell iPhone since day one).
It's just a pure fantasy for the benefit of claiming victory later. What I don't understand is why do you care when one manufacturer sell many cheap phones and it have a big number? You care so much? Look at Kindle Fire. Are you surprised?
Next you will claim people said Kindle Fire didn't have a chance either.
post #31 of 106
Funny how many imaginary battles were created in these previous posts to needlessly defend one of the most valuable companies in existence...

odd.
post #32 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

It's too bad that Apple doesn't break down their iPhone sales... then we'd know which ones were using iOS...

[that's sarcasm in case anyone didn't get it...]

And if we only knew how many of them were smartphones. . .
post #33 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Too bad Samsung does not provide any audited data of any kind on their phone or tablet sales.

All we have are estimates put out by consulting-whoevers, and numbers that are wildly inconsistent with collateral data on things such as app sales, web traffic, etc.

Bottom line: I don't believe these sales figures in the least.

That's because sales figures have nothing to do with market share. The numbers usually estimated or provided are units shipped. Companies like Samsung flood the market with products just to guarantee themselves space on shelves. A lot of the products never actually sell, they are either given away or returned to the manufacturer.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #34 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

People called us at NeXT arrogant for saying NeXT was buying Apple. The Truth is in the results. The type of talent NeXT brought over rebuilt NeXT as Apple with all it's legacy of reputation and stagnant talent waiting for leadership.

Best business decision NeXT ever made was getting Apple to give NeXT 400 million to use the Apple name.
post #35 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post

And if we only knew how many of them were smartphones. . .

Actually, isn't that one of the arguments Androidians make... that not all iPhones are being used as smartphones and therefore some iPhones should not be included in smartphone sales.
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post #36 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

Companies like Samsung flood the market with products just to guarantee themselves space on shelves. A lot of the products never actually sell, they are either given away or returned to the manufacturer.

Citation for "a lot of (Samsung's) products never actually sell?" That Apple is successful is a given. Insinuating Samsung isn't? They're doing OK.
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post #37 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Funny how many imaginary battles were created in these previous posts to needlessly defend one of the most valuable companies in existence...

odd.

Hmmm... the odd thing to me is how many people defend competing companies on an Apple fan site.
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post #38 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by gprovida View Post

I think this is part of SAMSUNG business strategy. What is needed is:

1. What is a smartphone
2. Which OS are allocated to the device [Android [flavors], MS Windows7, and Bada]
3. What is the average selling price per phone
4. What was the profit on the phones
5. How many of each phone or at least in aggregate were sold not shipped

My guess is that what is a smartphone is exaggerated, the profit will be lean on the phones, and shipped versus sold will diminish the real earning.

Only upon developing this kind of data, either from SAMSUNG or by analysts can real assessments be made with Apple and the market in general.

However, buzzy headlines that drive page clicks will probably be the rule of the day. My only hope is Horace at asymco.com will have made a stab at it building the data and making useful comparisons.

This kind of data is really important, as Windows 7 is strongly promoted with Nokia in 2012, there will be a Halo effect to SAMSUNG Windows versions and seeing who gets cannibalized if Windows gets traction will be interesting and important.

And how many weere free to the end buyer under the BOGO promotions.
post #39 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

Use it as an opportunity to buy more

Apple has 4% market share of mobile phones, 10% for computers, and 0% for TVs. What will the stock price be five years from now?

The same.

Forward p/e of 2.7

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post #40 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by pridon View Post

And how many weere free to the end buyer under the BOGO promotions.

Rampant BOGO sales can indicate a distributor having to slash prices in order to move product or a vendor having to slash prices to sell to distributors but in and of themselves they aren't a sign of poor sales. Look at Apple's free iPhone 3GS, which still makes more profit than other vendors premium models at $200-$300 subsidized prices.

We also have a recent and rare example of an iPhone BOGO at BestBuy for a model Apple stopped selling many months ago. This likely got passed around between distributors at slight losses due to a foolish purchase from Apple right before the 4S shipped.

It's only when you see BOGO across many markets and models over an extended period like we saw with RiM that there is an indication of a real issue. I don't think Samsung falls into that category in any sense as they are one of the few making money off Android. Bottom line: Apple is to the smartphone market what Samsung is to the Android OS market.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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