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Samsung sold about 32 million smartphones in record holiday quarter - Page 2

post #41 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

Best business decision NeXT ever made was getting Apple to give NeXT 400 million to use the Apple name.

That's not fair to all the good Apple employees in the 90's. Apple brought a lot to the table, as did NeXT. Apple's problem was not so much the technology or products as it was lack of leadership and an unwillingness to break with the past.

The biggest gain for Apple from the acquisition was Jobs. NeXT was important, but Apple could have built their next generation on a number of different platforms if they had strong leadership.
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post #42 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's not fair to all the good Apple employees in the 90's. Apple brought a lot to the table, as did NeXT. Apple's problem was not so much the technology or products as it was lack of leadership and an unwillingness to break with the past.

The biggest gain for Apple from the acquisition was Jobs. NeXT was important, but Apple could have built their next generation on a number of different platforms if they had strong leadership.

Yes... people like Andy Rubin.

(I'm just being a smart ass)
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post #43 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Hmmm... the odd thing to me is how many people defend competing companies on an Apple fan site.

big difference between countering lies and obvious misinformation and defending a company for no reason by creating battles and arguments from the otherside that don't exist and in some cases probably won't

You all act as if a company cannot do well unless said company is Apple.
post #44 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Rampant BOGO sales can indicate a distributor having to slash prices in order to move product or a vendor having to slash prices to sell to distributors but in and of themselves they aren't a sign of poor sales. Look at Apple's free iPhone 3GS, which still makes more profit than other vendors premium models at $200-$300 subsidized prices.

We also have a recent and rare example of an iPhone BOGO at BestBuy for a model Apple stopped selling many months ago. This likely got passed around between distributors at slight losses due to a foolish purchase from Apple right before the 4S shipped.

It's only when you see BOGO across many markets and models over an extended period like we saw with RiM that there is an indication of a real issue. I don't think Samsung falls into that category in any sense as they are one of the few making money off Android. Bottom line: Apple is to the smartphone market what Samsung is to the Android OS market.

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post #45 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

big difference between countering lies and obvious misinformation and defending a company for no reason by creating battles and arguments from the otherside that don't exist and in some cases probably won't

You all act as if a company cannot do well unless said company is Apple.

All of us? None of us are objective and counter only with facts?

All of us.

Hmmmmmmm....
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post #46 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post

Please correct me if I am wrong:
- when android was small compared to iOS, the contest was between these two. My recollection is that Android would never be significant
- when android grew bigger, the contest was between individual suppliers. Sansung, hTC, ... would never outgrow Apple
- now that Samsung is the biggest seller, the comparison basis for Android is further narrowed down. How much of the Galaxy S II were sold?

Frankly guys, what do you care? Is it pure frustration that Android got twice as big as iOS in less than 2 years?

It's always denial when it comes to Apple-iOS losing quite a large amount of share in such a short time. I have stated many times that this is inevitable with the success of Android. Yet I'm usually called name and insulted by many users here. Samsung has just proven my point. They will continue to exceed. Along with Amazon and their Kindle devices.
post #47 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's not fair to all the good Apple employees in the 90's. Apple brought a lot to the table, as did NeXT. Apple's problem was not so much the technology or products as it was lack of leadership and an unwillingness to break with the past.

The biggest gain for Apple from the acquisition was Jobs. NeXT was important, but Apple could have built their next generation on a number of different platforms if they had strong leadership.

No they couldn't. We had 3 months of capital before closing the doors. Copland was joke to all internal engineering staff. Taligent was another broken dream.

BeOS was nowhere near the robust nature and quality APIs of NeXTSTEP. Sorry, but one of the reasons NeXT was quickly agreed to by all parties interested was the massive amount of IP that NeXT had both mature and simmering which actually never was made to market at the time Apple bought the company.

Sorry, but being on the inside gives one a perspective you cannot fathom.

The Apple Campus was divided into a couple factions. Within the first year it was clear the deadwood was dragging the company into the ground. The canceling of the sabbatical program was another key move by Steve that protected the company from collapsing in cost.

There were a lot of technically limited folks who were scared out of their minds with UNIX when we arrived.
post #48 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post


Frankly guys, what do you care? Is it pure frustration that Android got twice as big as iOS in less than 2 years?

We don't care. Apple reports shipped but assumes it sells > 99.99%. Android vendors reports shipped and I doubt they sell to end-users > 75%. In addition, Android is on a variety of crappy basic smart phones given away in BOGO or free.

Then due to variety, Fandroids complain it's not fair comparing the iPhone to the non flagship Android phones.
post #49 of 106
I once had a lawnmower that needed repairs. While talking to the repairman I, like an idiot, said, "if it costs over $75 you can keep the damn thing!".

The repair bill was $74.50.

What has this got to do with anything...

Well... I'm just wondering if it was leaked next quarter that Apple sold 60 million iPhones then would Samsung report the sale of 62 million phones.
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post #50 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

They sold 32 million smartphones.

The didn't sell 32 million Android smartphones, nor did they sell 32 million Galaxy phones. Too bad Samsung doesn't give a breakdown by phone type.

Not only that, but Samsung gives away phones too. So they maybe stretching the truth a bit when they say sold 32 million phones because half of them are given away with there buy 1 get 1 free. You will never see Apple do such a thing. When Apple says sold, they mean people actually pay for them.
post #51 of 106
The numbers are close. Samsung will beat out Apple for 2011. This is only one company. Imagine the rest of the industry with Android phones sold worldwide. This will be a difficult year for Apple in 2012. Again, Apple is doing exactly what they have done with Mac back in the 80's. Its not sustainable, and will relegate Apple back to small niche market...again.


http://gigaom.com/apple/2011-smartph...msung-v-apple/
post #52 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

The numbers are close. Samsung will beat out Apple for 2011. This is only one company. Imagine the rest of the industry with Android phones sold worldwide. This will be a difficult year for Apple in 2012. Again, Apple is doing exactly what they have done with Mac back in the 80's. Its not sustainable, and will relegate Apple back to small niche market...again.


http://gigaom.com/apple/2011-smartph...msung-v-apple/

Yes... the end is nigh. We get it. Thank you.
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post #53 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Yes... the end is nigh. We get it. Thank you.

Wait, I'm confused. Should I sell my Apple stuff and buy an Android phone and Windows computer? If it's inevitable that Apple is going to be bankrupted by the end of this year, I may as well, I guess, right?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #54 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

The numbers are close. Samsung will beat out Apple for 2011. This is only one company. Imagine the rest of the industry with Android phones sold worldwide. This will be a difficult year for Apple in 2012. Again, Apple is doing exactly what they have done with Mac back in the 80's. Its not sustainable, and will relegate Apple back to small niche market...again.


http://gigaom.com/apple/2011-smartph...msung-v-apple/

It's strange how record setting quarter after record setting quarter can be considered a failure. Maybe only in your eyes. Apple gets 50% of the mobile profits with just 3 phones. I think Apple will be fine in the short and long run.

If only they had market share instead of profit share. Oh what, market share can't buy you anything?
post #55 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by b9bot View Post

Not only that, but Samsung gives away phones too. So they maybe stretching the truth a bit when they say sold 32 million phones because half of them are given away with there buy 1 get 1 free. You will never see Apple do such a thing. When Apple says sold, they mean people actually pay for them.

When the telcos give you a "free"smartphone, that's the telcos' rolling the phone cost into the contract, and not any sign that Samsung or Apple or whoever didn't sell the phone to the telco. That would be ridiculous to believe any of these guys really give a bunch of product away to the mobile users.
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post #56 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post

Samsung doesn't actually state any numbers at all. We always just compare Apple's stated figures to Analyst estimates about Samsung.

Samsung used to report numbers, which is where I got my GS2 figures from. They only recently stated they weren't going to provide detailed sales figures.

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post #57 of 106
[QUOTE=anantksundaram;2020680]Too bad Samsung does not provide any audited data of any kind on their phone or tablet sales.

All we have are estimates put out by consulting-whoevers, and numbers that are wildly inconsistent with collateral data on things such as app sales, web traffic, etc.

Bottom line: I don't believe these sales figures in the least.[/

Samsung is trying to fluff their way into some kind of popularity. Pretend they are this big smartphone seller. I don't think people will buy it. Pretend you have the sales until you do have the sales, or you are found out when your earnings don't match your ego
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post #58 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Samsung used to report numbers, which is where I got my GS2 figures from. They only recently stated they weren't going to provide detailed sales figures.

My question would be why are they doing that?.
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post #59 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

All of us? None of us are objective and counter only with facts?

All of us.

Hmmmmmmm....

Forgive me, I purposefully generalize often expecting people to know I don't mean all...at all really...poor wording on my part, I'll try and avoid such generalizations in the future.
post #60 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's not fair to all the good Apple employees in the 90's. Apple brought a lot to the table, as did NeXT. Apple's problem was not so much the technology or products as it was lack of leadership and an unwillingness to break with the past.

The biggest gain for Apple from the acquisition was Jobs. NeXT was important, but Apple could have built their next generation on a number of different platforms if they had strong leadership.

Apple had lots of interesting stuff going on. From Copland to OpenDoc to Newton. Some cool, disconnected stuff. They had no direction (even less than Google has now). They were a collection of little fiefdoms controlled by people of "power" each having a different vision. The problem was, that vision was all they had. There were no plans on how to actually achieve any of the ideas they had.

NeXT not only provided people that had "vision" they also provided people that had a deep understanding of the art of software design and architecture. Be never had this IMO. Apple had lost it.

NeXT provided people with insight, vision, drive, ambition and some amazingly high technology. It is no accident within 6 months all but 1 of Apple's top 15 manegers were "previously of NeXT".

All you have to do is look at the primary tech:

OS X - NeXT based tech with added goodness.
iPhone - NeXT based tech. You still have all those amazing foundation classes but the GUI classes have been renamed and re-thought out.
XCode - NeXT based tech. PB preceded it for several years but it was headed by many NeXT based guys/OpenStep developers.
QuickTime - OK, you got me. Apple.
iPad - NeXT based tech
iTunes - OK, Another Apple based tech.

But the point is, NeXT brought much more than Steve Jobs. They brought FILE EXTENSIONS!!!

Adding/promoting File Extensions helped the Mac gain acceptance more than any single other change OS X made.
post #61 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post

Who is the idiot that wrote this article? When Apple announces its iPhone sales, that number is going to be compared with a GUESS by one analyst about how many smartphones Samsung sold? I mean, are you people seeing how ridiculous these types of articles are? Absolutely worthless!

You can't compare a real number with a guess. Where are the real journalists?

I guess you can compare a real number with a guess. The regulators only see that there is WIDESPREAD agreement on a point, therefore nothing fraudulent. Ha! We won't have good journalists for a while yet. When certain utilities are gone then will have good blog reporters and the cream will rise to the top. Until then, CNBC and the networks have a racket going. Literally.

This is merely the method the wall street guys use to KEEP THE LID ON Apple. Their paycheck is guaranteed, since Apple will always have something exciting coming along. Just keep her low and let her rip when you need another money cycle, upside or downside. If the market is headed up and you got bets on the downside then bring out a new bad rumor. If that doesn't work then get your CNBC stars to mention Europe again. They can massage it either way. Often multiple times in a day.
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post #62 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Samsung has dozens of iterations of the same phones and tablets, with different names marketed worldwide. They could EASILY sell 32 million when you combine them all. Or are you thinking only in terms of the US?


you're thinking of HTC

samsung has their galaxy branded phone that is the same all around the world except in the US. and a few other cheaper models
post #63 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

NeXT not only provided people that had "vision" they also provided people that had a deep understanding of the art of software design and architecture. Be never had this IMO. Apple had lost it.

imo the minute Sculley became CEO Apple became a company of "Yes" men.

No vision plus "yes" men = Apple 1995
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post #64 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

The numbers are close. Samsung will beat out Apple for 2011. This is only one company. Imagine the rest of the industry with Android phones sold worldwide. This will be a difficult year for Apple in 2012. Again, Apple is doing exactly what they have done with Mac back in the 80's. Its not sustainable, and will relegate Apple back to small niche market...again.


http://gigaom.com/apple/2011-smartph...msung-v-apple/


in the old days to get software for your Mac you had to go to the store and find the corner in the back with Mac software. today we have the app store so that if you have a cool idea it's easy to sell it without trying to win shelf space and put up a lot of money to get it published
post #65 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

in the old days to get software for your Mac you had to go to the store and find the corner in the back with Mac software. today we have the app store so that if you have a cool idea it's easy to sell it without trying to win shelf space and put up a lot of money to get it published

It was very similar to buying porn...
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post #66 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

When the telcos give you a "free"smartphone, that's the telcos' rolling the phone cost into the contract, and not any sign that Samsung or Apple or whoever didn't sell the phone to the telco. That would be ridiculous to believe any of these guys really give a bunch of product away to the mobile users.

On the BOGOs they aren't really recouping their phone cost. For iPhones it really does take a whole new separate contract to get the 'free' phone. I don't know anyone with 4 iPhones on a family together plan that got more than one of the phones free. Only a paid for older phone maybe. With the BOGOs how many can you get free on one plan? Can you buy 2 and get 2 free all on one carrier family plan?
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post #67 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Rampant BOGO sales can indicate a distributor having to slash prices in order to move product or a vendor having to slash prices to sell to distributors but in and of themselves they aren't a sign of poor sales. Look at Apple's free iPhone 3GS, which still makes more profit than other vendors premium models at $200-$300 subsidized prices.

We also have a recent and rare example of an iPhone BOGO at BestBuy for a model Apple stopped selling many months ago. This likely got passed around between distributors at slight losses due to a foolish purchase from Apple right before the 4S shipped.

It's only when you see BOGO across many markets and models over an extended period like we saw with RiM that there is an indication of a real issue. I don't think Samsung falls into that category in any sense as they are one of the few making money off Android. Bottom line: Apple is to the smartphone market what Samsung is to the Android OS market.

Rampant BOGO sales is so 2009. I haven't seen many as of late.
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post #68 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Samsung has dozens of iterations of the same phones and tablets, with different names marketed worldwide. They could EASILY sell 32 million when you combine them all. Or are you thinking only in terms of the US?

Actually the SGS 2 comes in 3 different models here in the US and a single different model worldwide.
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post #69 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

No they couldn't. We had 3 months of capital before closing the doors. Copland was joke to all internal engineering staff. Taligent was another broken dream.

Really? Then how did Apple come up with $400 M - and then take another couple of years before they were able to release OS X?

Apple clearly had enough to get by for some time. Maybe with some tough decisions, but the fact that they survived for years before releasing OS X shows that they had more than 3 months of capital.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

BeOS was nowhere near the robust nature and quality APIs of NeXTSTEP. Sorry, but one of the reasons NeXT was quickly agreed to by all parties interested was the massive amount of IP that NeXT had both mature and simmering which actually never was made to market at the time Apple bought the company.

I never said BeOS was as robust as NeXTSTEP. I said that Apple had a number of options they could have chosen from. They could have built their next OS on Linux. Or any other Unix. Or BeOS. Or Copland.

In retrospect, it seems clear that NeXT was the best choice. That doesn't mean it was the ONLY choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Sorry, but being on the inside gives one a perspective you cannot fathom.

The Apple Campus was divided into a couple factions. Within the first year it was clear the deadwood was dragging the company into the ground. The canceling of the sabbatical program was another key move by Steve that protected the company from collapsing in cost.

There were a lot of technically limited folks who were scared out of their minds with UNIX when we arrived.

That's essentially what I said. Someone said that NeXT simply started using the Apple name. That is grossly incorrect. There were a lot of technologies brought from the Apple side, as well. And the biggest problem was the lack of proper management - which is what I said. WIth proper management, you don't have a campus with multiple factions and deadwood dragging the company into the ground.

Apple today is what it is because of a combination of 3 major things:
1. NeXT and NeXT people
2. Steve Jobs
3. Apple technologies and people

It is a mistake to ignore any of those three.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

Apple had lots of interesting stuff going on. From Copland to OpenDoc to Newton. Some cool, disconnected stuff. They had no direction (even less than Google has now). They were a collection of little fiefdoms controlled by people of "power" each having a different vision. The problem was, that vision was all they had. There were no plans on how to actually achieve any of the ideas they had.

NeXT not only provided people that had "vision" they also provided people that had a deep understanding of the art of software design and architecture. Be never had this IMO. Apple had lost it.

NeXT provided people with insight, vision, drive, ambition and some amazingly high technology. It is no accident within 6 months all but 1 of Apple's top 15 manegers were "previously of NeXT".

All you have to do is look at the primary tech:

OS X - NeXT based tech with added goodness.
iPhone - NeXT based tech. You still have all those amazing foundation classes but the GUI classes have been renamed and re-thought out.
XCode - NeXT based tech. PB preceded it for several years but it was headed by many NeXT based guys/OpenStep developers.
QuickTime - OK, you got me. Apple.
iPad - NeXT based tech
iTunes - OK, Another Apple based tech.

It's pretty disingenuous to claim that iPhone and iPad are NeXT-based technologies. They are based on OS X - which is a clear hybrid of NeXT and Apple.

I really love how you claim OS X is 'NeXT based tech with added goodness'. Essentially, it's a pure hybrid. The core is heavily NeXT and the UI is heavily Apple. Neither company by itself could have produced OS X.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

But the point is, NeXT brought much more than Steve Jobs. They brought FILE EXTENSIONS!!!

Adding/promoting File Extensions helped the Mac gain acceptance more than any single other change OS X made.

Probably far less than the transition to Intel.

But the point is that it is wrong to say that Apple today is solely NeXT. It is a hybrid of NeXT, Steve Jobs culture, and Apple stuff.
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post #70 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

My question would be why are they doing that?.

Are you seriously expecting a reply from him?
post #71 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Kool View Post

Why are you guys so worried about how many smartphones Samsung sold. If you really love Apple unconditionally and are willing to buy all of their products without a second thought what do you care how many people like Samsung better? Sometimes I think Apple fans are the most insecure people on the planet.

I hope you don't think I'm a bad person. I just want you to like me. What can I do for you to make you happy? Do you want me to change the way I dress? Is my nose too big? It's my hands, isn't it?
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post #72 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Samsung has dozens of iterations of the same phones and tablets, with different names marketed worldwide. They could EASILY sell 32 million when you combine them all. Or are you thinking only in terms of the US?

They also sell smartphones like these.

x high end phones + y mid & low range phones = 32 million.

The x and y breakdown would be interesting, given that a lot of (mainly American) fandroids seem to make the assumption that all these sales are Galaxy II's.
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post #73 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

They also sell smartphones like these.

x high end phones + y mid & low range phones = 32 million.

The x and y breakdown would be interesting, given that a lot of (mainly American) fandroids seem to make the assumption that all these sales are Galaxy II's.

According to Canacord channel sell-thru checks at the carriers, it is the Galaxy S2 that's the big Android seller, even knocking last gen iPhone from it's expected second place finish at ATT. The Galaxy S2 has held 2nd place for the past two months there.

http://www-bgr-com.vimg.net/wp-conte...d-dec-2011.jpg
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post #74 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

It's always denial when it comes to Apple-iOS losing quite a large amount of share in such a short time. I have stated many times that this is inevitable with the success of Android. Yet I'm usually called name and insulted by many users here. Samsung has just proven my point. They will continue to exceed. Along with Amazon and their Kindle devices.

Actually they never "lost" any share, before Android came along it was Symbian with the lion's share of the smartphone OS market.

iOS has plateaued but is still growing.

All that really matters is that Apple continues to sell more phones than they did before and makes more money than they did before.
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post #75 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

It's always denial when it comes to Apple-iOS losing quite a large amount of share in such a short time. I have stated many times that this is inevitable with the success of Android. Yet I'm usually called name and insulted by many users here. Samsung has just proven my point. They will continue to exceed. Along with Amazon and their Kindle devices.

So how much share has Apple "lost"?

I'll give you a hint it's zero or a negative number, on the other hand how much share has WinMo, Symbian, RIM and others lost?

Besides MONEY is the only measure of true value.
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post #76 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

The numbers are close. Samsung will beat out Apple for 2011. This is only one company. Imagine the rest of the industry with Android phones sold worldwide. This will be a difficult year for Apple in 2012. Again, Apple is doing exactly what they have done with Mac back in the 80's. Its not sustainable, and will relegate Apple back to small niche market...again.


http://gigaom.com/apple/2011-smartph...msung-v-apple/

Samsung has ALWAYS sold more phones than Apple ever since Apple entered the market.

Which brings us to the obvious:-

your point?
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post #77 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

My question would be why are they doing that?.

...because they don't want people to really notice that $500 million of the announced profit was due to a one off i.e. the sale of their hard drive division to Seagate.

Just muddying the waters to make themselves look more like Apple.
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post #78 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

According to Canacord channel sell-thru checks at the carriers, it is the Galaxy S2 that's the big Android seller, even knocking last gen iPhone from it's expected second place finish at ATT. The Galaxy S2 has held 2nd place for the past two months there.

http://www-bgr-com.vimg.net/wp-conte...d-dec-2011.jpg

It's a bit of a leap to assume AT&T sales represent what's happening in the rest of the world.

i.e. AT&T did NOT sell 32 million Samsung smartphones last quarter.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #79 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Too bad Samsung does not provide any audited data of any kind on their phone or tablet sales.

All we have are estimates put out by consulting-whoevers, and numbers that are wildly inconsistent with collateral data on things such as app sales, web traffic, etc.

Bottom line: I don't believe these sales figures in the least.

Last time I checked, people dont audit sales, they audit financial statements.

Of which Samsung will be releasing once the audit is complete.

Please dont tell me that Korea doesnt have audit companies.

Because they do.

One of my relatives works for one of the biggest firms there.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #80 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Kool View Post

Why are you guys so worried about how many smartphones Samsung sold. If you really love Apple unconditionally and are willing to buy all of their products without a second thought what do you care how many people like Samsung better? Sometimes I think Apple fans are the most insecure people on the planet.

Why are you guys worried about what Apple fans are supposedly worried about? If you really aren't one of us, why do you care how Apple fans think? Sometimes you fantasize that Apple fans are the most insecure people on the planet.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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