Originally Posted by SDW2001
I think it is you who don't get the irony. There seems to be a collection of people out there who ignore every threat Iran makes, every obfuscation in which engages and every wack-a-doo theocratic statement its leaders make. At the same time, you relentlessly question the motives and statements of your own country.
It would be more accurate to say *the government* of your own country. The actions of the *government* of America is a very long way displaced from the *country* of America, and what its people want...
Somehow the the Iranians are only lying when they repeatedly threaten Israel
It's the Israelis who have been making all the threatening moves. They have a record of attacking their neighbors.... even their closest ally, the US - remember the USS Liberty? When Mahmoud Ahmadinejad uttered that famous mistranslated statement about "wiping Israel off the map", the original words he said referred to the "hardline Zionist" element within Israel's *government*, not the country of Israel itself. This mistranslation was seized upon and eagerly rebroadcast in the US, courtesy of MEMRI et al. A classic example of how myths are made.
and give the middle finger to the U.N. and IAEA,
How about their neighbor to the west.... which has done the same thing on 70+ occasions obver several decades with absolute impunity?
Name me an industrialized country on earth which doesn't...
and promote the return of the Hidden Imam.
All corporate religions have their wacky beliefs to manipulate the adherents....
But they are telling truth suddenly when they claim they are not a "first strike" nation and have no plans to build a nuclear weapon. Come on.
And please inform us as to when in modern history has Iran done a first strike? It would be insane for them to hit out at Israel.... a country with up to 400 nukes (including thermonuclear devices) and a huge arsenal of chemical and biological weapons, whose two major allies (US and UK) regularly go to war just for recreational purposes and to benefit big business, nothing whatsoever to do with their own national security. And, to boot, need very little persuastion to start another war against Iran, with a first strike.... a nice convenient little false flag event blamed on Iranians would work wonders as well...
And FYI, Iran has had a nuclear program going since the 1950s. Granted, its been nn and off...but if they had been committed to building nuclear weapons, they would likely have done so a long time back, especially considering their long established ties to the Soviet Union/Russia. Pakistan managed to do just accomplish the same in rapid order, and nobody had a clue, until they tested one in 1995.
Don't misunderstand...I encourage legitimate criticism of and skepticism about our government.
As long as it's not the Bush Administration.... or any authoritarian for that matter....
That being said, I don't think you're looking Iran in a balanced way. MJ, you are libertarian and want us to follow the non-aggression principle. tonton, you are not libertarian, but it seems you're at least where MJ is on the same principle. Your views on foreign policy are shaped through the general theory that if we leave certain nations alone and demilitarize in the Middle East, we'll promote security and stability for ourselves, and the region. To support that theory, it seems as if you're willing to ignore some very real concerns on Iran.
The "concerns" about Iran only started surfacing when the current pairs of wars in the middle east (Afghanistan and Iraq) were starting to wind down, after the neocons had milked everything they could out of the media induced paranoia, and the public were starting to (finally) see through the lies and propaganda. Now they're pulling the same stunts with Iran and the corporate media, as usual, are being their pathetic little knee-padded lapdogs.
While I certainly don't want a war,
Really? Thats a first!
I don't believe you are seeing Iran as the threat that it is.
Don't you mean.. "they way that the media is portraying it, and you are swallowing every piece of propaganda they can dream up"?
The real power of Iran's government rests in the mullahs. It is an oppressive theocracy.
That it sure is. Crocodile tears for the Iranian people?
Many of those in power are religious zealots committed to facilitating the return of the Hidden Imam. In order for him to be revealed, Armageddon must occur.
What's that got to do with the US? And what is new here? And since when have the US government started to not support "oppressive regimes", after a long track record of installing, cajoling, funding and mollycoddling dictators and thugs, by overturning democracies in many parts of the world?
These leaders are also incredibly anti-semitic
No, they are more anti-Zionist, not anti-Jew. "Semitic", by the way, refers to a group of peoples from the Mid East, which includes a large group of Arab ethnicity from Ethiopia to Saudi Arabia, extending through Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and as far north as Southern Turkey.
After what happened in 1953, when the US toppled Iran's Western style parliamentary democracy and replaced it with a police state under a vicious dictator... who can blame them? After what happened in 1980, when the Reagan Administration armed and supported Saddam Hussein's 8- year war against Iran? ... etc? People in the mid east have a attention spans a lot longer than a few microseconds.....
And they are the same people that have an advanced nuclear program in the middle of a desert full of oil. They are the same people that have refused transparency on that program.
Israel anyone? One rule for them, and another for Iran? Is that realistic? And where is the PROOF
that they are making nuclear weapons?
They are the same people that have repeatedly threatened Israel,
Who is threatening whom? Reality, I mean....
That is the US threat facing Iran. Then in addition, there's Israel, and the United Kingdom - which does everything the US demands.... and various other members of the potential coalition of the coerced.
questioned the holocaust, etc.
Has any other senior government figure in Iran questioned the holocaust, outside of their outlier wacky president.... who has far less political clout than what we in the US think of when we refer to "president"?
They are the same people that, through their government, support terrorism worldwide.
) The world has suddenly shrunk... By the way, ever heard of MEK.. a terrorist group responsible for bombings and shootings in Iran, listed by the US State Dept. as terrorist groups but who get covert support and funding from within the US?
Iran is a rogue regime in the purest sense.
Perhaps you and Tucker Carlson are on the same side here. Lets wipe 'em all out... a new Holocaust for the 2010s? An acceptable holocaust... a few million dead Persians is acceptable collateral damage, yes? (neocon talk).
While I do believe there are elements within our government that want a war (aren't there always),
There are elements within every government and military who want war... especially if the chickenhawk elements think they can get rich from it (as long as they don't have to fight on the front lines, of course). Iraq anyone? Vietnam?
that doesn't mean the threat is false.
But most wars are started on threats which either don't exist, have never existed, and failing that have been deliberately manufactured, or fabricated within the collective psyche and imagination of the public.