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Rumor: Sharp's IGZO display didn't make the cut for Apple's third-gen iPad

post #1 of 65
Thread Starter 
A new report claims Sharp will not be supplying display panels for Apple's third-generation iPad, suggesting its touted IGZO technology will not appear in this generation of devices.

Instead, displays for the iPad 3 will be provided exclusively by Samsung and LG, KoreaIT News said it has "confirmed" in a report published this week. It added that while Sharp was in fact developing display panels for a so-called "iPad 3," the company "failed in initial supply."

Mass production of third-generation iPad panels reportedly began in late 2011. That production is said to have begun with Samsung, while LG picked up full capacity at the beginning of 2012.

The report reiterated rumors that the next iPad will feature a XQGA high-resolution 2,048-by-1,536-pixel display. Production of the new iPad will occur at Foxconn and, as with last year, the new model will go on sale soon after it is announced.

Sharp has been working on its own oxide material for LCD displays made of indium, gallium and zinc, known as IGZO. Recent reports claimed that Apple planned to switch to Sharp's IGZO displays for its next iPad.

Adopting IGZO technology could allow Apple to make the iPad even thinner while still sporting a 330 dots-per-inch screen resolution. Non-IGZO displays may require dual-LED light bars to illuminate a "Retina Display," which could add thickness to the touchscreen tablet.




The latest news out of Korea claims that Sharp's oxide semiconductor TFT panels "failed to pass Apple's approval process for mass production." With Samsung and LG as its primary suppliers, Apple reportedly plans to purchase more than 65 million LCD panels for the third-generation iPad this year.

Apple is expected to unveil its third-generation iPad in March, matching the timeframe with which the iPad 2 was unveiled in 2011. Apple will hold an event next week to make an education announcement, but numerous reports have indicated that no new hardware will be unveiled at the New York City media briefing.
post #2 of 65
apple needs to get away from samsung as supplier, stop feeding the beast that steals your IP
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post #3 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

apple needs to get away from samsung as supplier, stop feeding the beast that steals your IP

a nice sentiment, but far easier said than done if they are the only people capable of making what you require in the necessary quality and quantity...
post #4 of 65
Rumor: Apple had requested test panels from Sharp but had decided long ago that it wasn't what they wanted for the iPad 3 (for reasons only Sir Jonny knows) and there was never any deal to be a supplier. Someone leaked that Sharp was supposed to be to try to play games with the stock value. Nothing more or less (same as many of the rumors)

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(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #5 of 65
So Retina Display (265ppi) feasible for the early 2012 release or will the sourcing and other consumer issues affect its release?

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #6 of 65
*hint* Apple gave Sharp over 500 million last year to build displays to them. Apple would not have given Sharp the money if they failed the approval process.
post #7 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

apple needs to get away from samsung as supplier, stop feeding the beast that steals your IP


and just maybe the lawsuits are there just as part of normal corporate strategy to get your patents recognized by a court
post #8 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

So Retina Display (265ppi) feasible for the early 2012 release or will the sourcing and other consumer issues affect its release?

Displays have been ready since early Q4 last year. The problem is 28nm manufacturing for A6. TSMC is late and just now starting to ship 28nm processors/SoC.

Everything is starting to line up. A6 Quad Core ARM15 at 1.5+ghz. PowerVR Rouge graphics. (up to 10 times faster then todays graphic. Almost 3 times as fast as PS Vita). Displays from Sharp.

One of the bigger questions is if Qualcomm can produce 28nm LTE SoCs to Apple. Apple wants to move to LTE as soon as possible to stop paying royalties to Nokia. 28nm LTE would take away the battery penalty that todays shipping LTE stuff have.

In iOS drivers there have been 2 different Ipad's reported. The question is if Apple is going to lower the price on Ipad2, would they give that its own new hardware ID? Maybe Apple adds LTE to Ipad2 to save royalty money and that is the reason for the new model ID. Or is it the 7 inch tablet?

This is what makes Apple fun. We have a good general idea on what is coming, but not specifics.
post #9 of 65
I still can't believe that people are saying the new iPad will be thicker. I mean, that'd be like releasing a new iPhone with worse battery life.
post #10 of 65
It will be intresting to see what happens this year with Samsung/Apple. Many reports suggest that Samsung will manufacture A6 and Ipad displays.

Apple use today Samsung manufactured A4/5, Nand Flash and displays.

Apple is moving A class SoCs to TSMC. Apple bought a Nand Flash controller company so that they can make their own flash memory. Apple gave Sharp 500+ millions last year to ramp up manufacturing of Retina display. 2012 can be the year that Apple and Samsung cuts its ties. Samsung looses its biggest customer that is 7% of Samsung's revenue.
post #11 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Everything is starting to line up. A6 Quad Core ARM15 at 1.5+ghz. PowerVR Rouge graphics. (up to 10 times faster then todays graphic. Almost 3 times as fast as PS Vita). Displays from Sharp

I've seen nothing hinting toward that. It all seems to be quad-core Cortex-A9 for the 1st half of 2012 and dual-core Cortex-A15 of the 2nd half.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

I still can't believe that people are saying the new iPad will be thicker. I mean, that'd be like releasing a new iPhone with worse battery life.

Actually it's like Apple releasing a thicker iPhone than previous model. The 2nd and 3rd generation iPhone were thicker than the original. Apple has also increased weight going with the iPhone 4/4S over the previous models.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #12 of 65
I'd be funny if the retina display iPad was never, ever real, and created entirely by the rumor mill and the gullible.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #13 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I've seen nothing hinting toward that. It all seems to be quad-core Cortex-A9 for the 1st half of 2012 and dual-core Cortex-A15 of the 2nd half.



Actually it's like Apple releasing a thicker iPhone than previous model. The 2nd and 3rd generation iPhone were thicker than the original. Apple has also increased weight going with the iPhone 4/4S over the previous models.

I agree with you that the A6 in the iPad 3 will be quad-core A9 CPU & GPU but I don't think you'll see an Apple processor this year using the Cortex A15 CPU or the PowerVR Rogue GPU. My theory is the iPhone "5" will use the same A5 as the iPhone 4S but manufactured using a 28nm process instead of 45nm. This will definitely help in reduced power consumption & manufacturing costs for the processor.

The A7 next year is when you see Cortex A15 the Rogue GPU in action - think iPad 3S & iPhone "5S." Again, that's just my theory.
post #14 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

I still can't believe that people are saying the new iPad will be thicker. I mean, that'd be like releasing a new iPhone with worse battery life.

Like THAT'S never happened before *cough* iPhone 3G, 3GS *cough*

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #15 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Apple bought a Nand Flash controller company so that they can make their own flash memory

One of those has nothing to do with the other. The purchase of Anobit doesn't give Apple any capability whatsoever to product flash memory. In fact, there's no evidence whatsoever that Anobit has any flash memory production capabilities - design or manufacturing. Anobit is about controllers that provide more efficient and reliable usage of even "lower quality" NAND flash.
post #16 of 65
That's one way to drive Sharp down in stock value. You talk it up and now talk it down.
post #17 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by tru_canuk View Post

I agree with you that the A6 in the iPad 3 will be quad-core A9 CPU & GPU but I don't think you'll see an Apple processor this year using the Cortex A15 CPU or the PowerVR Rogue GPU. My theory is the iPhone "5" will use the same A5 as the iPhone 4S but manufactured using a 28nm process instead of 45nm. This will definitely help in reduced power consumption & manufacturing costs for the processor.

The A7 next year is when you see Cortex A15 the Rogue GPU in action - think iPad 3S & iPhone "5S." Again, that's just my theory.

The Rogue and A15 samples and design have been in Apple's hands for a year.
post #18 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

The Rogue and A15 samples and design have been in Apple's hands for a year.

Are you sure about this? If that's the case then I see no reason for the A6 not to include these technologies this year beginning with the iPad 3. Even in dual-core CPU / GPU form the A6 would rock with the A15 CPU and Rogue GPU.

I only have my doubts because the A15 was only officially announced late last year and the Rogue GPU was officially demoed at CES this week.
post #19 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by tru_canuk View Post

Are you sure about this? If that's the case then I see no reason for the A6 not to include these technologies this year beginning with the iPad 3. Even in dual-core CPU / GPU form the A6 would rock with the A15 CPU and Rogue GPU.

I only have my doubts because the A15 was only officially announced late last year and the Rogue GPU was officially demoed at CES this week.

With four times the number of pixels the GPU needs to be a least four times as fast. The CPU doesn't have to be much faster apart from its memory buses, so I suspect an A9 core would be sufficient (and certainly in line with Apples previous CPU choices). With GPUs Apple is ahead of the game, so it's not impossible that the most recent GPU is indeed included, probably with a modest amount of cores.

J.
post #20 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by tru_canuk View Post

Are you sure about this? If that's the case then I see no reason for the A6 not to include these technologies this year beginning with the iPad 3. Even in dual-core CPU / GPU form the A6 would rock with the A15 CPU and Rogue GPU.

I only have my doubts because the A15 was only officially announced late last year and the Rogue GPU was officially demoed at CES this week.

I don't see it happening. Having the designs for the ARM chip doesn't mean the SoC is complete or that production is possible. If you consider the number of units Apple sells out of the gate with their A* PoPs they will need plenty and I don't think I saw anyone at CES releasing any Cortex-A15 products in the first half of the year.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #21 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

With four times the number of pixels the GPU needs to be a least four times as fast.
J.

is it such a straightforward linear relationship between pixels and gpu? Just wondering.
post #22 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A new report claims Sharp will not be supplying display panels for Apple's third-generation iPad, suggesting its touted IGZO technology will not appear in this generation of devices.

Never say "never." It's quite possible that Sharp can't get high enough yields in their brand-new plant to supply iPad 3 starting in March. But yields might improve enough to supply IGZO screens later in the year. And maybe that's what triggered DigiTimes' "iPad 4 in October" rumors.

Apple has spent a lot of money on that plant. They're eager as ever to adopt high-quality low-cost technology, and IGZO has both those attributes. Also, Sharp is working on an advanced OLED manufacturing process that would produce high quality screens at a lower cost than current OLED processes. So another possibility is that Apple might skip IGZO screens in iPad 3 this year, put IGZO screens in the iPhone 5, and use the advanced OLED technology in the iPad 4 and iPhone 6 in 2013. Who knows?

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post #23 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I'd be funny if the retina display iPad was never, ever real, and created entirely by the rumor mill and the gullible.

Actually, I'm on that bandwagon. I don't see Apple using such a high density screen. For an iPhone, we've all seen how it can improve readability on such a small screen. On an iPad, there is no reason for such high res, there is enough real estate to make things legible with a good resolution. It really is overkill. And will again make the app world split itself with a standard version, a Retina version, an HD version, and now a FullHD version.

And people will be disappointed, will talk about how much better Android is and how they will be switching to the only platform whose developers are the only ones who understand the geeks' wetdreams...

I'd be more than happy to have one, but not at the expense of frame rate on games, nor battery life.
post #24 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonMTL View Post

Actually, I'm on that bandwagon. I don't see Apple using such a high density screen. For an iPhone, we've all seen how it can improve readability on such a small screen. On an iPad, there is no reason for such high res, there is enough real estate to make things legible with a good resolution. It really is overkill. And will again make the app world split itself with a standard version, a Retina version, an HD version, and now a FullHD version.

And people will be disappointed, will talk about how much better Android is and how they will be switching to the only platform whose developers are the only ones who understand the geeks' wetdreams...

I'd be more than happy to have one, but not at the expense of frame rate on games, nor battery life.

iPad text is less clear than eInk or an printed text. Sure you can expand, but that simply isn't feasible for reading a book.

They don't have to go with 265ppi but they also didn't have to go with 326ppi for the iPhone 4. Was that overkill? The iPhone would still fit into the Retina Display for 20/20 vision at 12" away if they went with 280ppi but they waited until they could quadruple the pixels for a reason.

They will do it! The only question is whether the whole system is in place to make it reality this year.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #25 of 65
Can I assume when Samsung releases a tablet with these screens in them the masses will cry that Samsung is stealing Apples IP? Even though they are Samsung's screens.
post #26 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

Can I assume when Samsung releases a tablet with these screens in them the masses will cry that Samsung is stealing Apples IP? Even though they are Samsung's screens.

No, "the masses" won't. And if anyone does, we'll be there to correct their misbelief that a resolution is somehow "intellectual property".
post #27 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

With four times the number of pixels the GPU needs to be a least four times as fast.

Not necessarily. Filling pixels on basic GUI graphics does not tax a current GPU much at all. So 4x pixels for iOS supplied graphics and custom vector graphics won't kill performance. 4x the number of pixels is a big deal for 3D, but only if you choose to render the full pixel density. If you render to the original density, again, filling pixels is trivial.


Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

is it such a straightforward linear relationship between pixels and gpu? Just wondering.

Correct intuition, no it's not.
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post #28 of 65
The dimensions of the iPad would be different, it would seem, if Sharp's technology was used. It seems highly unlikely that Apple had two designs for the iPad ready to go, one with Sharp's technology and the other accommodating a high-resolution screen that requires a thicker case and more weight.

I'm sure Apple intends to up the resolution on the iPad but not at the expense of cost, battery life, and presumably causing the iPad to be heavier.

It doesn't add up and it seems to me absurd to imagine that with the new version set for a Match launch, we'd have Apple deciding which technology to employ, hence which design to employ, this late in the process. That's not how it works. The design would have to have been finalized a while ago and I doubt Apple would have been OK with taking the trouble of developing two basic designs while it made up its mind about which direction to take.

More likely, Apple needs to have a technology in place that can deliver higher resolution with no downside and in the absence of that technology, the iPad 3 will not feature a major change in display technology. Hence, the next iPad will be similar to the current model in regards to display technology. 2013 is another matter.
post #29 of 65
LOL!! I guess Apple's diversification strategy isn't quite working.. But but but.. there are hundreds of other Asian suppliers ..
post #30 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, "the masses" won't. And if anyone does, we'll be there to correct their misbelief that a resolution is somehow "intellectual property".

We know that but I can only assume any tablet Samsung would put this screen in could potential be the same size and shape as the iPad 3, so Samsung can only have stolen the design from Apple.
post #31 of 65
I'm willing to throw down huge sums of money that says Jobs would have never compromised the iPad's thickness to make room for a higher-resolution display.

Can you see engineering winning a fight against him on this?

Might be apocryphal, but someone once told me that an engineering interviewee was asked to troubleshoot an issue in which the motherboard was impeding against the case. The engineer suggested that maybe he could ask the group that designed the case (i.e., ID) to modify it so that the board would fit.

Needless to say, he did not return.
post #32 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

I'm willing to throw down huge sums of money that says Jobs would have never compromised the iPad's thickness to make room for a higher-resolution display.

The iPhone 3G was thicker than the original. Your point is moot.
post #33 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

LOL!! I guess Apple's diversification strategy isn't quite working.. But but but.. there are hundreds of other Asian suppliers ..

Sorry, no.

For any given Apple part going in an iOS device, there are probably just a handful of qualified suppliers. Apple issues an RFP saying, "we need something at these specifications with this minimum yield and this maximum cost per unit."

Only the biggest players have a chance. It's not like Apple can realistically manage fifty vendors making 200,000 units of the same component for a total product run of 10 million. There may only be a couple of companies that can say, "we can make 10 million units" or perhaps one company that says they can make 8 million and another can make 5 million.
post #34 of 65
Regarding dual-core Cortex-A15:
Quote:
The first devices based on OMAP 5 aren't expected to ship until early 2013, with some aggressive customers potentially shipping at the very end of this year.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5406/t...tex-a15-at-ces

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

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post #35 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

I'm willing to throw down huge sums of money that says Jobs would have never compromised the iPad's thickness to make room for a higher-resolution display.

Can you see engineering winning a fight against him on this?

The iPhone 3G was thicker than the original iPhone.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #36 of 65
You're not listening to SJ ... 7" is too small to be efficient. Apple does not need to copy Amazon to succeed.
post #37 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

apple needs to get away from samsung as supplier, stop feeding the beast that steals your IP


Get over it. No serious court on Earth is entertaining far-reaching look and feel claims. The lawsuits were just an enormous waste of time and resources for both sides anyway.
post #38 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

is it such a straightforward linear relationship between pixels and gpu? Just wondering.

Yes, the GPU calculates per pixel.

J.
post #39 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

Not necessarily. Filling pixels on basic GUI graphics does not tax a current GPU much at all. So 4x pixels for iOS supplied graphics and custom vector graphics won't kill performance. 4x the number of pixels is a big deal for 3D, but only if you choose to render the full pixel density. If you render to the original density, again, filling pixels is trivial.
Correct intuition, no it's not.

The point is of course that the most demanding 3D environments like Infinitiblade must run at equal or better speed on the new iPad. And this demands 4 times the calculation speed.
It isn't a good observation that some tasks require less GPU power, the device maker (Apple) needs to take peak performance into account because that's what counts.
And I assumed ofcourse that all pixels are used. Nobody will buy the device if the software isn't using the high resolution.

J.
post #40 of 65
Thanks to both of you guys for explaining this to me.
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