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Religious Atrocity Vol 2: "No prayer banner in school? Threaten a teenager!"

post #1 of 62
Thread Starter 
So not cool. School sanctioned prayer is in violation of the constitution. A prayer banner titled "School Prayer" starting with "Dear Heavenly Father" and ending with "Amen" is not kosher in a public school. A brave young 16 year old girl filed a lawsuit and won in federal court. While those who care about the constitution supported the girl (I donated to her college scholarship fund), a bunch of Christians have decided to demonstrate their love in another way:










 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #2 of 62
Thread Starter 









 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #3 of 62
Thread Starter 
You thought those were bad? How about these fucking gems?





You wonder why I hate religion so much and bring up its absurdities and atrocities all the time? It's because of this. This is a 16 year old girl defending the constitution, winning a case in federal court, and being threatened with battery, rape, and murder.

And what I'm frightened of...is that they call it god's love.


And oh yes, on the banner was this phrase:

“Help us to be good sports and smile when we lose as well as when we win,”

I don't think they understand the irony.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #4 of 62
I'm sure those social media posts are representative of the majority of people of faith.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #5 of 62
Thread Starter 
I see. No outrage. Just excuses. You can't even take a moment to condemn the evil of those postings? You don't think there's a significant chunk of Americans who act like that? You don't think there's an even larger chunk that makes excuses and essentially gives them tacit approval, like you are doing now?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #6 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I see. No outrage. Just excuses. You can't even take a moment to condemn the evil of those postings? You don't think there's a significant chunk of Americans who act like that? You don't think there's an even larger chunk that makes excuses and essentially gives them tacit approval, like you are doing now?

What is there to condemn? People who think they are posting anonymously acting like assholes? Have seriously read even half the comments on any YouTube video?

If there's a threat, the powers that be will investigate that. In the meantime freedom of speech goes both ways and that means she doesn't have to see some words about a prayer at her school, but she does have, if she chooses to click to them or engage them, read them on the internet.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #7 of 62
What it takes is for the religious leadership in that community to explain to those people making such threats and hateful comments that they are not acting as Christians, and they do far more to harm Christians than the girl has done. Why hasn't that happened? The answer to that question is the substance of BR's very valid point.
post #8 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

What it takes is for the religious leadership in that community to explain to those people making such threats and hateful comments that they are not acting as Christians, and they do far more to harm Christians than the girl has done. Why hasn't that happened? The answer to that question is the substance of BR's very valid point.

Yes, and how do we know they are Christians? How do we know they go to that school? How do we know they are members of that community? How do we know they are even real people?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #9 of 62
Thread Starter 
Lifted from a forum where a Christian actually gets it:

Quote:
As someone who grew up in a Christian home where my parents taught me love before hate I am very embarrassed by the behavior of these Christians. My heart breaks that this young lady has to go through this. I just want to hug her and tell her she's amazing for what she is doing!
We prayed in my home - we prayed every day before meals, and bed. When out to dinner I asked my parents why we don't pray at restaurants and they told me because prayer is private and we are out in public.

Where's the embarrassment from you guys? Where's the compassion? Think on that.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #10 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Lifted from a forum where a Christian actually gets it:



Where's the embarrassment from you guys? Where's the compassion? Think on that.

Yes, and how do we know they are Christians? How do we know they go to that school? How do we know they are members of that community? How do we know they are even real people?

Where is the proof? Think on that.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #11 of 62
I'm pretty sure those were ALL muslims, and a Muslim prayer.
post #12 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Yes, and how do we know they are Christians? How do we know they go to that school? How do we know they are members of that community? How do we know they are even real people?

Where is the proof? Think on that.

If they are not real, and even of they are not Christians, does it do any harm for the Christian leaders to speak up?
post #13 of 62
Thread Starter 
Wait, is he seriously asking that? Does Trumpet go to stand-up comedy shows and question whether the overwhelming laughter is derived from the comedian's jokes? Perhaps everyone spontaneously thought of something funny and they weren't paying attention to the comedian at all! Certainly possible!

Christians have one of their prayers taken down. People flip their shit and speak of hell and damnation, cursing atheists. Death threats ensue against the catalyst. Yeah, probably was the Jews.

What a moronic question.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #14 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Wait, is he seriously asking that? Does Trumpet go to stand-up comedy shows and question whether the overwhelming laughter is derived from the comedian's jokes? Perhaps everyone spontaneously thought of something funny and they weren't paying attention to the comedian at all! Certainly possible!

Christians have one of their prayers taken down. People flip their shit and speak of hell and damnation, cursing atheists. Death threats ensue against the catalyst. Yeah, probably was the Jews.

What a moronic question.

Plausable deniability is an has always been the right wing mantra. You should be used to it by now.
post #15 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Plausable deniability is an has always been the right wing mantra. You should be used to it by now.

The level of cognitive dissonance they must be withstanding boggles my mind.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #16 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

So not cool. School sanctioned prayer is in violation of the constitution. A prayer banner titled "School Prayer" starting with "Dear Heavenly Father" and ending with "Amen" is not kosher in a public school. A brave young 16 year old girl filed a lawsuit and won in federal court. While those who care about the constitution supported the girl (I donated to her college scholarship fund), a bunch of Christians have decided to demonstrate their love in another way:











It is disgusting what is happening in the school system today regarding this religious bullshit of theirs. Pray to whoever you want to and don't listen to these phony ass religious zealots telling you what to do. I praise this girl whole heartily what she did.
post #17 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

If they are not real, and even of they are not Christians, does it do any harm for the Christian leaders to speak up?

When is the last time you saw a leader of any organization speak up about comments on Twitter, Facebook, or YouTube?

I can find a thousand hateful comments towards any group you care to think about, a week on YouTube. It's called the law of large numbers. Twitter has 200 million tweets per day. On ANY given day some percentage of them are going to hateful towards someone about any attribute you can think about and the point is that will be true everyday. Half of one percent of Christians, or Women, or Hispanics, or whatever group you care to think about could express hateful thoughts and it will still be a few hundred comments per day out of 200 million.

This entire thread is classic exception as the rule thinking. That in addition to being stupid enough to make the logical leap of tarring an entire religion and all who believe it from a few tweets.

You know who I know that is a leader and is religious, Barack Obama. Let's read the nice posts from you and BR condemning him and declaring that since he hasn't spoken about or responded to these tweets, that he is doing harm, and tacitly promoting hate within the country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Wait, is he seriously asking that? Does Trumpet go to stand-up comedy shows and question whether the overwhelming laughter is derived from the comedian's jokes? Perhaps everyone spontaneously thought of something funny and they weren't paying attention to the comedian at all! Certainly possible!

Christians have one of their prayers taken down. People flip their shit and speak of hell and damnation, cursing atheists. Death threats ensue against the catalyst. Yeah, probably was the Jews.

What a moronic question.

Your inability to see the whole picture is a damn dangerous thing given your utopia mindset and your desire to accuse and harm others who disagree with you.

As always, you've in no form or fashion proven these tweets are the "overwhelming" number of tweets on the matter. You say people flip their shit, but that's where you are wrong. A tweet isn't "flipping your shit." Your sense of disproportion is just mind-boggling. Is one of the reasons you are so angry is because a girl passed you a note when you were growing up, and you took it as a solicitation for sex and raped her? Are you writing to us from prison? That is about the level of disproportion you are talking about here. You are taking a tweet and making it the same as action. That's just insane.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #18 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

When is the last time you saw a leader of any organization speak up about comments on Twitter, Facebook, or YouTube?

There's a reason for that, silly. These are a new part of society. There was NO Twitter three years ago (to speak of). There was no Facebook four years ago (to speak of). Today, these things actually matter. Yesterday, they didn't.

Even if we don't respond officially to hateful tweets now, it won't be long before someone responsible does so in the future. Clearly this is a case where something should be said.
post #19 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryantR View Post

Here, here...Well said!

How ironic.
post #20 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

There's a reason for that, silly. These are a new part of society. There was NO Twitter three years ago (to speak of). There was no Facebook four years ago (to speak of). Today, these things actually matter. Yesterday, they didn't.

Even if we don't respond officially to hateful tweets now, it won't be long before someone responsible does so in the future. Clearly this is a case where something should be said.

Clearly no one is going to say this because Twitter is not an organization with leaders of groups who then use it for the purpose of speech. You're not even in the realm of the reasonable and are literally just pissing in the wind at this point. This like asking the Governor of California to apologize for something someone heard down at the local doughnut shop because they are both old, white guys.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #21 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Clearly no one is going to say this because Twitter is not an organization with leaders of groups who then use it for the purpose of speech. You're not even in the realm of the reasonable and are literally just pissing in the wind at this point. This like asking the Governor of California to apologize for something someone heard down at the local doughnut shop because they are both old, white guys.

Yeah, you're probably right. Religious, community and political leaders never ever say anything condemning the media, or the general public's unaffiliated individual statements or attitudes. Never.
post #22 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yeah, you're probably right. Religious, community and political leaders never ever say anything condemning the media, or the general public's unaffiliated individual statements or attitudes. Never.

None of those things are tweets. Stop with the strawmen.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #23 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

None of those things are tweets. Stop with the strawmen.

Tweets are the new media. The new public opinion. Stop being so daft.
post #24 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Tweets are the new media. The new public opinion. Stop being so daft.

No tweets are the new doughnut shop and if you want to find out what the public is talking about aka what is trending then instead of going to the diner or doughnut shop, what the media goes to is Twitter. Twitter is the new "man on the street."

That doesn't mean the president or leaders of any organization are under an obligation to respond to or condemn any statement you can find someone making on the street aka the general public.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #25 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I see. No outrage. Just excuses. You can't even take a moment to condemn the evil of those postings? You don't think there's a significant chunk of Americans who act like that? You don't think there's an even larger chunk that makes excuses and essentially gives them tacit approval, like you are doing now?

Me not expressing outrage at the deluded postings of angry teenagers equates to tacit approval of their comments? That's rich.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #26 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Me not expressing outrage at the deluded postings of angry teenagers equates to tacit approval of their comments? That's rich.

OK, then take a moment here to show how evil you think those posts are. They posted her HOME ADDRESS and made DEATH THREATS.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #27 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

OK, then take a moment here to show how evil you think those posts are. They posted her HOME ADDRESS and made DEATH THREATS.

Who is they? You've only been asked to clarify this about a dozen times.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #28 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Who is they? You've only been asked to clarify this about a dozen times.

The people posting their opinion, including people who have access to the girl's address. Why does that matter to you? Oh... because you don't have a fucking argument.
post #29 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

The people posting their opinion, including people who have access to the girl's address. Why does that matter to you? Oh... because you don't have a fucking argument.

Crazy concept, when you accuse someone of doing something, we should know who is being accused.

I know that may be odd to you, especially when painting entire groups with that broad brush of yours, but most people like claims supported with information.

I read that there are tweets where this girl was already murdered, her body was chopped up, and fed to cats in the park.

I don't have to say who did that. I don't have to show it is true. It must be because I asserted it. If you don't believe me it is because "you don't have a fucking argument."

You're just sad tonton.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #30 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Crazy concept, when you accuse someone of doing something, we should know who is being accused.

Again. Moronic. This is the thinking of a child.

You don't need to accuse anyone in particular when you condemn a heinous act that happens to be anonymous.
post #31 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Again. Moronic. This is the thinking of a child.

You don't need to accuse anyone in particular when you condemn a heinous act that happens to be anonymous.

It isn't anonymous. This thread does not declare that anonymous people made a threat. The thread declares "a bunch of Christians" made the threats. You didn't ask for anonymous leadership to address the threats. You asked for Christian leaders to address the threats.

Your desperation is showing.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #32 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It isn't anonymous. This thread does not declare that anonymous people made a threat. The thread declares "a bunch of Christians" made the threats. You didn't ask for anonymous leadership to address the threats. You asked for Christian leaders to address the threats.

Your desperation is showing.

Oh, puhleeze.
post #33 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Oh, puhleeze.

Truth sucks. Your own words and BR's as well mean you can't hide from the fact that your claims and demands weren't to anonymous.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #34 of 62
Thread Starter 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...OXgCuxE#t=586s

In Jessica's video response to internet questions, she says that many of the hateful tweets and facebook messages were from kids she knew in school.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #35 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...OXgCuxE#t=586s

In Jessica's video response to internet questions, she says that many of the hateful tweets and facebook messages were from kids she knew in school.

It's a public school, hence why the ruling happened in the first place.

How does that make them Christian? Both the articles you linked to merely called them students. You are making a logical leap. The video you link to, Jessica herself calls the tweets "petty" and "immature" and "ridiculous" and declares it "pointless to give them the time of day."

Perhaps you should follow her wishes.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #36 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It's a public school, hence why the ruling happened in the first place.

How does that make them Christian? Both the articles you linked to merely called them students. You are making a logical leap. The video you link to, Jessica herself calls the tweets "petty" and "immature" and "ridiculous" and declares it "pointless to give them the time of day."

Perhaps you should follow her wishes.

No, he'd rather state that we agree with the comments and find them perfectly appropriate because we haven't expressed enough outrage.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #37 of 62
Thread Starter 
Christians being Christians.

http://630wpro.com/Article.asp?id=2381209&spid=37719

Quote:
Teen atheist stops attending school, considers transfer

Posted: 1/26/2012 10:10:37 AM
Updated: 1/26/2012 1:16:48 PM

Jessica Ahlquist, the 16-year-old Cranston West High School junior, who took on the Prayer Banner said she is not going to school for the time being.

“We are trying to figure something’s out, It’s not a good atmosphere for me to be in right now so we are just trying to wait for everything to relax a little bit,” said Ahlquist.

Ahlquist, an atheist, said at school she has needed police protection the entire school day and is constantly being bullied by other students. “Even just in homeroom people screaming under God at me during the pledge of allegiance. It’s just a really hostile atmosphere. I’ve had police escorts to all of my classes all day. It is very difficult to concentrate on school in an atmosphere like that.”

Chief Operating Officer of Cranston Schools, Ray Vatto, said that the school has received no formal complaints from Ahlquist regarding threats from other students.

Ahlquist said that there is no truth to the rumor that she will be transferring to LaSalle High School but said that she and her family have not ruled out transferring to a different high school.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #38 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Christians being Christians.

http://630wpro.com/Article.asp?id=2381209&spid=37719

Actually if you were honest, you'd call it the public being the public.

It is a public school. It reflects the values of government institutional thinking. One poem with a couple words from 40 years ago has no reflection on that. The public mob doesn't like what is happening and is taking it out on the extreme minority who enforces what they desire on the entire mob.

Call it the 99% getting back at the 1%. Call them the OCCUPY movement. The mob, really doesn't have an agenda, they are just tired of being told what to do by that one percent.

Oh wait, the reasoning doesn't apply there? Irony sucks doesn't it.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #39 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I see. No outrage. Just excuses. You can't even take a moment to condemn the evil of those postings? You don't think there's a significant chunk of Americans who act like that? You don't think there's an even larger chunk that makes excuses and essentially gives them tacit approval, like you are doing now?

My first concern is Twitter and Facebook. I can see a good use of it by companies but I've pretty much deactivated my own Twitter and Facebook. People are just not able to use it responsibly.

Of course, before cyber-bullying there was real physical and emotional bullying.

That said, of course those Twitter and Facebook postings are terrible.

If by law it has been decided that public schools should be agnostic, then they should be agnostic. If you put up a Christian prayer, then that would mean anyone else can quote the Quran, put a Hindu idol in the corner, etc.

If a school is Catholic then it is Catholic. If it is Methodist then it is Methodist. If it is not a religious school, then it's not.

If people are upset with this, then there are two reasonable avenues, which I am fine with. Firstly, change the law itself, so that the administration of a public school can decide what religion they want to embrace in the context of school life. Christianity, Islam, New Age, Atheist, whatever.

In fact, for the 21st Century, how about all public schools simply saying, "We embrace the spiritual path that all children decide to explore, even if it is that of purely secular ideals". If you put up a Christian banner then at least once a month Muslims, Hindus, Atheists and whoever else can have their own sections in the school to display and talk about their beliefs.
post #40 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

So not cool. School sanctioned prayer is in violation of the constitution. A prayer banner titled "School Prayer" starting with "Dear Heavenly Father" and ending with "Amen" is not kosher in a public school. A brave young 16 year old girl filed a lawsuit and won in federal court. While those who care about the constitution supported the girl (I donated to her college scholarship fund), a bunch of Christians have decided to demonstrate their love in another way:











Good for you in donating. This is sheer crap by telling the students what to say with this prayer nonsense!These other people you posted and twittered are nothing but bigots and fanatics!I thought the Christians were loving and forgiving people another bull crap lie!
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