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Reacting to Apple at CES 2012: Intel's Ultrabooks to Samsung's Galaxy Note

post #1 of 105
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Without even making an official appearance at CES as an exhibitor, Apple has become an invisible hand directing the show and what the company's competitors choose to promote as their future strategies. Here's a look at how the industry is chasing Apple at this year's CES.

Reacting to Apple at CES 2012, part one: Intel's Ultrabooks
Reacting to Apple at CES 2012, part two: Samsung's Galaxy Note
Reacting to Apple at CES 2012, part three: Sony, Motorola, RIM, Nokia

Apple has played the rhinoceros to many campfires lit at CES over the past several years, stomping out netbooks and Microsoft's Windows 8 Slate PC with the iPad and Google's Nexus One with iPhone 4 in 2010, and then returning a year later to extinguish any flames of excitement surrounding RIM's PlayBook and Android 3.0 Honeycomb tablets with iPad 2.

This year, two of the biggest initiatives at CES, Intel's Ultrabooks and Samsung's Galaxy Note pad-phone with a stylus, were clearly aimed at responding to two of Apple's most successful products.

Are Intel's Ultrabooks the MacBook Heir?

Positioned next to Microsoft near the central entrance of the trade show, Intel had a selection of Ultrabooks on display from Acer, Asus, Lenovo and Toshiba, all "inspired by Intel" in the sense that they are based on the company's chipsets and design recommendations.







While clearly patterned after Apple's MacBook Air, Intel really has competition from Qualcomm in mind, specifically the rival chipmaker's new ARM-based Snapdragon S4, which is aimed at delivering a new wave of tablets and netbook-like devices that will be able to run not just Android but also eventually Windows 8 at some point after it ships at the end of this year.

While Qualcomm was represented at CES, Apple wasn't, forcing AppleInsider to supply its own MacBook Air for direct comparisons with the Ultrabooks on display in Intel's booth. In the photos below, the MacBook Air has the backlit keyboard, while the Ultrabooks appear affixed with Windows and Intel stickers.




Microsoft's efforts to port Windows 8 to ARM (in order to compete with Apple's iPad in the tablet market) scares Intel enough to make it willing to risk its relatively new Intel Mac partnership with Apple to pursue its own Ultrabook strategy aimed at cloning the success of the MacBook Air across other PC makers. The biggest problem for Ultrabooks is that they're too expensive to compete with the MacBook Air.

On page 2 of 3: Wintel, Intel Macs now a frienemy free for all

Wintel, Intel Macs now a frienemy free-for-all

Intel's previous attempts to get PC makers to successfully clone Apple's designs, such as its 2005 effort to copy the Mac mini, didn't pan out, but Apple subsequently adopted Intel's chips itself across its Mac lineup. As the third largest and fastest growing PC maker in the US, Apple is now a significant customer of Intel's x86 chips.

At the same time, Intel appears to be focused on finding and retaining other x86 chip customers, knowing full well that Apple will leave Intel behind the moment it gains access to more desirable processors. Apple did just that with the iPad, abandoning its initial plans to use Intel's Silverthorne (now Atom) chips after developing a more power efficient ARM chip of its own, the A4.

New generations of Apple's ARM-based processors are reportedly already threatening to steal away Intel's chip business in future MacBook Air models, while other ARM chip designers (principally Qualcomm) are gunning to keep Intel out of the smartphone and tablet business and, at the same time, expand into mobile PC netbooks and notebooks, a market dominated by Intel and predicated upon its x86 chip architecture.



Intel has responded with an Android "Medfield" smartphone reference design that could be mistaken for an iPhone 4. The company partnered with Google on Android last September to counter both Microsoft's lack of x86 support in Windows Phone 7 and its upcoming plans to support ARM-based PC and tablet devices with Windows 8.

Intel had previously partnered with Linux and then Nokia to hedge its "Wintel" partnership with Microsoft. Microsoft subsequently partnered with Nokia a year later and induced the company to abandon its Meego Linux partnership with Intel to focus on Microsoft's own Windows Phone platform.



On page 3 of 3: Ultrabooks are more than just a second-hand breath of Air

Ultrabooks are more than just a second-hand breath of Air

At the same time, Intel's Ultrabook plans are also getting support from Microsoft, which wants to see Windows running everywhere. Ultrabooks also promise to raise the average price of PCs, a goal Microsoft has already struggled with its PC partners to achieve, first in thwarting Linux on ultra cheap netbooks, then with Windows 7 pricing strategies.

In mid 2009, Microsoft's chief executive Steve Ballmer said Microsoft would use Windows 7 to "readjust those prices north," part of an effort that BusinessWeek described as "a new pricing strategy around Windows 7 that the company hopes will result in far more upgrades to premium SKUs, and a reversal of a strategy in the last year to cut prices to spur demand in emerging countries."

Microsoft's efforts to raise PC prices with the help of manufacturers has resulted in small annual upticks in the Average Selling Prices of PCs over the past two holiday seasons according to NPD Group, a reversal of decades of plummeting PC prices that have continually eaten away the profits of PC makers and, in the last few years, even began to affect Microsoft's bottom line.

While most Ultrabook designs have features in common with the light and thin MacBook Air, others could be mistaken for MacBook Pros, with optical drives and conventional hard disks. So rather than being a malicious swipe at Apple by Intel to destroy the MacBook Air, Ultrabooks are really a quite desperate move to prevent PCs from losing their dependence upon Intel's x86 chip architecture as well as an equally desperate attempt to salvage the profitability of PC makers outside of Apple.

Ultrabooks are only copying Apple because Intel wants the same results Apple is experiencing. Unfortunately, Ultrabook PC makers lack the sophisticated operations and retail presence Apple has, in addition to lacking the halo provided by the iPod, iPhone and iPad.

While a variety of PC makers have also tried to build portable media players, smartphones and tablets, they haven't yet been able to match Apple in those categories either. Part two looks at Samsung's efforts with the Galaxy Note, and three provides an overview of Apple's impact on other CES exhibitors, including Motorola, Nokia, RIM and Sony.

Reacting to Apple at CES 2012, part one: Intel's Ultrabooks
Reacting to Apple at CES 2012, part two: Samsung's Galaxy Note
Reacting to Apple at CES 2012, part three: Sony, Motorola, RIM, Nokia
post #2 of 105
Oh look, they're even doing the Apple-style flat keys, which a lot of PC'ers panned when they first came out for not having enough travel. Shameless b*stards.
post #3 of 105
What's that old saying? You can put lipstick on a pig....
post #4 of 105
It seems the problem with most of these other companies is... "They have no taste".

If they copied Apple's ideas and made them better then good luck to them, but blatant copying isn't attractive, especially when it's poorly done. (And more expensive in some cases!)

Firstly one of the simplest things they could do is get rid of the ugly brand stickers all over the machines, it immediately makes them look cheap and nasty.
post #5 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...While clearly patterned after Apple's MacBook Air, Intel really has competition from Qualcomm in mind, specifically the rival chipmaker's new ARM-based Snapdragon S4, which is aimed at delivering a new wave of tablets and netbook-like devices that will be able to run not just Android but also eventually Windows 8 at some point after it ships at the end of this year. ...

Windows 8 on ARM sounded interesting when Microsoft first told everyone about it but since then things have changed. MS has already said ARM versions of Windows 8 won't run x86 code. Developers will have to port their apps to the ARM platform.

If MS was smart (and we know the answer to that question) they would dump Windows 8 for ARM and focus on developing a tablet version of their Windows phone OS. I don't understand why anyone would want to run Windows 8 on any hardware if they can't run their standard Windows 8 apps on that hardware.

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post #6 of 105
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Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

What's that old saying? You can put lipstick on a pig....

Exactly.

Although to give them credit, the machines themselves are probably good and they're looking better than previous attempts, but they're not doing themselves any favours by blatantly ripping off Apple.

And even though some people love Windows, I still feel it tarnishes any brands hardware no matter how well it's designed.
post #7 of 105
Last year the focus was on tablets, now it's ultraportable notebooks. If these don't work out for the other vendors and Apple comes out with a new product category I bet I can guess what CES 2013 will be focused on.

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post #8 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Oh look, they're even doing the Apple-style flat keys, which a lot of PC'ers panned when they first came out for not having enough travel. Shameless b*stards.

Chicklet or "island style" keyboards was invented by Sony.

Later, copied by Apple.

Finally, further distorted by its fans.


Hard to swallow but it is true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

What's that old saying? You can put lipstick on a pig....

Says the person who owns the same spec laptop as all the rest of the PCs.

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post #9 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Chicklet or "island style" keyboards was invented by Sony.

Later, copied by Apple.

Finally, further distorted by its fans.


Hard to swallow but it is true.

THE INTERNET HAS SPOKEN... and disagrees with your revisionist history.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #10 of 105
These versions of the cloned MacBook Air are very different. They work well as snow shoes.
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post #11 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Oh look, they're even doing the Apple-style flat keys, which a lot of PC'ers panned when they first came out for not having enough travel. Shameless b*stards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Chicklet or "island style" keyboards was invented by Sony.

Later, copied by Apple.

Finally, further distorted by its fans.


Hard to swallow but it is true.



Says the person who owns the same spec laptop as all the rest of the PCs.


Mate, where does he say that the chicklet keyboard was invented by Apple??

If Apple use it and others don't in general, then it can be fairly called "Apple-style" for the sake of discussion. And I'm guessing it was "panned by a lot of PC'ers" because you haven't denied that bit....

Your post is an attempt at a straw man argument and thus irrelevant to his point, which still stands unanswered by you.

The only distortion going on here is your distortion of his statement for the sake of what you believe to be true....
post #12 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeRoy View Post

Firstly one of the simplest things they could do is get rid of the ugly brand stickers all over the machines, it immediately makes them look cheap and nasty.

Not that easy, since there's money to be made with these stickers. Some MS employees didn't like it as well, and asked Ballmer to create 'MS Signature' computers. You need to pay extra to get a PC without the stickers (and free software pre-installed)

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/...ust-like-macs/
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post #13 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Not that easy, since there's money to be made with these stickers. Some MS employees didn't like it as well, and asked Ballmer to create 'MS Signature' computers. You need to pay extra to get a PC without the stickers (and free software pre-installed)

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/...ust-like-macs/

I thought I had read somewhere about Intel and/or MS allowing for toned down stickers if you opt for certain level of high-endedness.

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post #14 of 105
I think it would be a horrible mistake for Apple to switch from Intel processors to another type that is not compatable with the PC world. That is one of the reasons macs are enjoying the surge they are, because they are now compatable with the PC universe. I hope Apple realizes that.
post #15 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maecvs View Post

I think it would be a horrible mistake for Apple to switch from Intel processors to another type that is not compatable with the PC world. That is one of the reasons macs are enjoying the surge they are, because they are now compatable with the PC universe. I hope Apple realizes that.

You really think Macs are selling because people running a retail version of Windows on them?

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post #16 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Not that easy, since there's money to be made with these stickers. Some MS employees didn't like it as well, and asked Ballmer to create 'MS Signature' computers. You need to pay extra to get a PC without the stickers (and free software pre-installed)

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/...ust-like-macs/

Nice thing about theses stickers is, they make the device a little bit cheaper. and for a shocker : they can be removed in less than a minute
post #17 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Oh look, they're even doing the Apple-style flat keys, which a lot of PC'ers panned when they first came out for not having enough travel. Shameless b*stards.

First they bash and redicule, then they silently copy. Again and again, year over year.
post #18 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You really think Macs are selling because people running a retail version of Windows on them?

Yes, they are.

Macs were very much a niche product when they were running Power PC processors. But now, thanks to the move to intel, they are in areas that they would never have been before. It's not necessarily that people are running windows on them, it's that they CAN. Let's not forget the fact that Windows still dominates the market, 80 plus per cent or whatever it is.

I call on a business that I see as a metaphor for the computer world. It was an office of 50 or so people, all doing on-line transaction processing, using windows. This office originally had two iMacs. But slowly, over the past couple of years, over half the staff are now using iMacs. As each Dell machine is replaced, it's being replaced buy a Mac. They are running windows on it, but the office is slowly converting all of their PCs to macs.

That's what is happening in the real world. People that have never been exposed to Apple products are usually brought into the Apple world by either an iPhone, or iPod, and now, the iPad. They buy that gateway product, then realize how amazing it is, and start thinking about a Mac. When they discover they can run windows on it, that's the clincher. Now, they don't NEED to run windows necessarily, but they know they can. THAT is Apples secret weapon. Apple just needs to remember that.
post #19 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maecvs View Post

I think it would be a horrible mistake for Apple to switch from Intel processors to another type that is not compatable with the PC world. That is one of the reasons macs are enjoying the surge they are, because they are now compatable with the PC universe. I hope Apple realizes that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You really think Macs are selling because people running a retail version of Windows on them?

It certainly helps people coming from the Windows world with the transition. But I guess it wouldn't make more than 3-5%, since the main concern people have is usually, wether they will be able to continue using their office files.
post #20 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maecvs View Post

That's what is happening in the real world. People that have never been exposed to Apple products are usually brought into the Apple world by either an iPhone, or iPod, and now, the iPad. They buy that gateway product, then realize how amazing it is, and start thinking about a Mac. When they discover they can run windows on it, that's the clincher. Now, they don't NEED to run windows necessarily, but they know they can. THAT is Apples secret weapon. Apple just needs to remember that.

But that could also be discounted by people like myself, brought into the Apple world through an iPhone, made the switch from years of PCs to a Mac to get AWAY from Windows. The simplicity and intuitiveness that the iPhone demonstrated to me in a mobile device made me reconsider how computers should work. After 20+ years of fighting dozens of Windows machines, I wanted the same experience in personal computing that I suddenly had in mobile computing.

When I purchased my iMac a couple of years ago, I knew it could run Windows, but I didn't want it to run Windows. I'm sure I wasn't the only one feeling this way when I made the Apple shift.

I wonder if anyone has ever did a survey of users who have made the PC to Apple changeover and have never installed Windows on their Mac?
post #21 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Ferrari View Post

But that could also be discounted by people like myself, brought into the Apple world through an iPhone, made the switch from years of PCs to a Mac to get AWAY from Windows. The simplicity and intuitiveness that the iPhone demonstrated to me in a mobile device made me reconsider how computers should work. After 20+ years of fighting dozens of Windows machines, I wanted the same experience in personal computing that I suddenly had in mobile computing.

When I purchased my iMac a couple of years ago, I knew it could run Windows, but I didn't want it to run Windows. I'm sure I wasn't the only one feeling this way when I made the Apple shift.

I wonder if anyone has ever did a survey of users who have made the PC to Apple changeover and have never installed Windows on their Mac?

A good question.

I used windows from back in the days of DOS. I Bought the first Gen iPod touch, and later the first gen iPhone. From there I bought and iMac and MacBook in 2008, and I've never looked back.

In the business world people are being exposed to Macs in the work place, because they are running windows. The workers see the Mac in action, buy one for their personal use. The tide to Mac products grows and grows.

The point is, that the transition to intel made this all possible. Why do you think they made the switch to begin with? It's something they needed to do years before they did. Going to a non-PC compatible processor will only harm Apple. It would be an ill advised move.
post #22 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Are Intel's Ultrabooks the MacBook Heir?

Ultrabooks are more than just a second-hand breath of Air

Ultrabooks are only copying Apple because Intel wants the same results Apple is experiencing. Unfortunately, Ultrabook PC makers lack the sophisticated operations and retail presence Apple has, in addition to lacking the halo provided by the iPod, iPhone and iPad.

Like the puns. It seems to me like this has been partly Apple-driven instead of Apple-inspired. It was Apple who urged Intel to lower their chip TDPs. In order for Intel to make that profitable, they have to encourage manufacturers to make designs that accommodate the lower power chips.

The thinner designs also encourage the adoption of Thunderbolt or rather Mini-Displayport/Thunderbolt, which is also Apple-driven.

The blatant copying doesn't help Apple much but having everyone focused on a common goal helps a bit and competing products will find it hard to undercut Apple in price so it levels the price playing field a bit.
post #23 of 105
The "halo" of the iPhone and iPad are fantastic for Mac. It's what the haters don't understand.

The iPad is the best tablet- no argument there from anyone.
Are there better media organizers than iTunes? Sure.
Can you buy a faster pc than what an iMac or mini can offer? Sure.
Is there a better phone than an iPhone? Debatable- depending on your needs. But on specs- yes.
Better routers and bakup options than a time capsule/airport? Yes
Is roku by itself better than an apple tv? Without question.

But therein lies the problem. I never argue Apple products individually. As a whole, they are top end, but people could argue (and be right) that a roku is better than an ATV. But what they cannot understand- until they are fully immersed In the ecosystem is how much better each product is with the other and how many features are added. The iPhone is great- but WAY better with a Mac (for the cloud). Apple Tv is ok standalone- but with mirroring, iTunes match, etc- it's unbeatable.

These companies will never get it. It's not about making a computer better than MacBook air. That can be done. It's about making things that not only work together, but improve with each component you add. Am I a prisoner to Apple because of this. Yes. But I'm here voluntarily. If there was a better prison, I'd go there. But there isn't anything even remotely close.

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post #24 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

THE INTERNET HAS SPOKEN... and disagrees with your revisionist history.

I so wanted that Atari Portfolio back when it showed up, though I think my Air is a bit nicer. (And IIRC the Portfolio made an appearance in T2 - hacking the ATM.)

But exactly, nobody claimed Apple had the first flat keyboard, just that PC makers were all avoiding it and Apple managed to get it right in terms of feel and acceptance.

It's like nobody claimed Apple invented aluminum or milling the body of a laptop from 1 piece, but they brought that to the world of laptops - as Intel is now pushing every other PC maker to do. Does that also mean that they're not copying Apple?
post #25 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

<...>
and Samsung's Galaxy Note pad-phone with a stylus, were clearly aimed at responding to two of Apple's most successful products.
<...>

That's quite an exaggeration, no way is the Samsung's Galaxy Note related to any product from Apple. Its most prominent qualities -- the 5.3'' screen and the stylus -- are not found in any of Apple's recent products, and many would agree that these features go against Apple's design philosophy.

It is obvious that Samsung continue with their misguided copying of Apple in some other areas, but if you don't give them credit for being inventive where credit is due, your whole argument starts to seem dishonest and agenda-driven.
post #26 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You really think Macs are selling because people running a retail version of Windows on them?

Absolutely. It makes a big difference to a lot of people:

- Corporate types who are scared to death of Mac OS X. Purchaser can say "if something doesn't work with the Mac, we can always wipe the drive and it runs Windows just fine" to overcome some fears.

- People who want a Mac, but occasionally play games that are not available on the Mac.

- People who want a Mac, but have some obscure Windows program that they have to be able to run. Parallels and Fusion are much more effective solutions than Virtual PC ever was.

I know a lot of Mac users who would not have bought a Mac without the ability to run Windows.
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post #27 of 105
"Apple has become an invisible hand directing the show.."

This seems just a little specious, no?
post #28 of 105
Why do they continue to copy copy copy? When will they realize they will never match Apple at their own game at which they're masters? Go out and design something different better and you (might) succeed in the long term.

Microsoft at least tried that with the windows phone 7, even though it's nothing in comparison to Apple (or Android) they did try.
post #29 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Ferrari View Post

But that could also be discounted by people like myself, brought into the Apple world through an iPhone, made the switch from years of PCs to a Mac to get AWAY from Windows. The simplicity and intuitiveness that the iPhone demonstrated to me in a mobile device made me reconsider how computers should work. After 20+ years of fighting dozens of Windows machines, I wanted the same experience in personal computing that I suddenly had in mobile computing.

When I purchased my iMac a couple of years ago, I knew it could run Windows, but I didn't want it to run Windows. I'm sure I wasn't the only one feeling this way when I made the Apple shift.

I wonder if anyone has ever did a survey of users who have made the PC to Apple changeover and have never installed Windows on their Mac?

I switched to Mac back in 2005 after the halo effect of iTunes for the PC and then an iPod had sparked my interest. My first Mac was a PoweBook G4 and when I got my first Intel MacBook Pro, I did install Windows after Bootcamp became available. I later installed Windows on my new iMac, but subsequently removed it from both of my machines as I found that I never used it. Though I agree with your sentiment that many of us Mac converts were/are looking to get away from Windows, there is definitely validity to the notion that other Mac converts switched because they knew they had that "safety net" of being able to run Windows if they so chose.
post #30 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Chicklet or "island style" keyboards was invented by Sony.

Later, copied by Apple.

Finally, further distorted by its fans.


Hard to swallow but it is true.

A bit like iPhone copy LG Prada?
post #31 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

A bit like iPhone copy LG Prada?

No, we're talking about copying that actually happened.

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post #32 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstep View Post

It's like nobody claimed Apple invented aluminum or milling the body of a laptop from 1 piece, but they brought that to the world of laptops - as Intel is now pushing every other PC maker to do. Does that also mean that they're not copying Apple?

I forgot about people claiming that it was no big deal and Apple did nothing unique because milling aluminium had been around for a long time. I did remember that it was considered stupid and pointless over-engineering with the "form over function" quip oft being used.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Absolutely. It makes a big difference to a lot of people:

- Corporate types who are scared to death of Mac OS X. Purchaser can say "if something doesn't work with the Mac, we can always wipe the drive and it runs Windows just fine" to overcome some fears.

- People who want a Mac, but occasionally play games that are not available on the Mac.

- People who want a Mac, but have some obscure Windows program that they have to be able to run. Parallels and Fusion are much more effective solutions than Virtual PC ever was.

I know a lot of Mac users who would not have bought a Mac without the ability to run Windows.

CHeck out the graph. There was no distinct spike starting in 2006 when the transition started or 2007 when the transition was complete. It started earlier than that. Also, don't forget that Boot Camp wasn't part of the transition, it came later toward mid-2006 and a Beta.

What you are seeing is a rise from 2004 to 2005, the year before the Intel switch was even announced. The reason is because of the Apple Stores.
People who had never seen a Mac were seeing them in high-traffic, ritzy areas. People who had never had an option to really test them out except in some mistreated, back alley kiosk of CompUSA had the option to finally play with the HW, OS and apps with full access to the internet.

The popularity of iTunes/iPod with Windows users did give users a taste of Apple's style with consumer electronics but plopping down double the amount for a PC that doesn't even come with the OS you expect you'll use isn't the selling point. Apple's growth and popularity would be nothing without the Apple Store influence.

That isn't to say that some people didn't feel as you said and choose to finally pay twice as much on average for a Mac so they could then go out and spend hundreds more on a retail version of Windows they ten have to install themselves along with other software from Apple to make it work on a Mac. That simply isn't how most consumers buy products. They try to simply their lives, especially when paying what feels like a premium prices.

PS: Along with the premium prices Intel offers substantial speed boosts for the mobile platform, where PCs were clearly headed. While most don't follow the benchmarks I'd argue that more Mac owners bought Macs again because of the transition to a better architecture than those that bought Macs in 2006-2007 because they planned to run Windows.

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post #33 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Chicklet or "island style" keyboards was invented by Sony.

Later, copied by Apple.

Finally, further distorted by its fans.


Hard to swallow but it is true.



Says the person who owns the same spec laptop as all the rest of the PCs.

Really? I had chick let keys on my Timex Sinclair 2068 back in 1984. Sony, please!
post #34 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Though I agree with your sentiment that many of us Mac converts were/are looking to get away from Windows, there is definitely validity to the notion that other Mac converts switched because they knew they had that "safety net" of being able to run Windows if they so chose.

I have no doubts that 'safety net' is a reassuring feeling for new Mac users, it's even in their advertisements for reasons to buy a Mac. I thought about installing Windows a few times early on, but once I decided to completely distance my home computing from Windows, all the headache, hassles, and problems I thought were 'normal' with computers went away.
post #35 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, we're talking about copying that actually happened.

Well for a second I thought there's someone said Apple copy Sony keyboard.
post #36 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Well for a second I thought there's someone said Apple copy Sony keyboard.

Oh, I see. Your example makes perfect sense now.

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post #37 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

What's that old saying? You can put lipstick on a pig....

I build race cars as a hobby and my favorite quote (similar) is: "You can't make a racehorse out of a pig, but you can still have a pretty fast pig".

Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

A bit like iPhone copy LG Prada?

People still posting this mis-information? iPhone was well under development long before anyone knew of the LG Prada. They were announced within a couple months of each other, long after the designs for both would have been finalized.

Oh, and it's a good thing Apple didn't copy the Prada. That phone was a POS to use, crappy UI and didn't even support multi-touch.

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

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post #38 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Ferrari View Post

But that could also be discounted by people like myself, brought into the Apple world through an iPhone, made the switch from years of PCs to a Mac to get AWAY from Windows. The simplicity and intuitiveness that the iPhone demonstrated to me in a mobile device made me reconsider how computers should work. After 20+ years of fighting dozens of Windows machines, I wanted the same experience in personal computing that I suddenly had in mobile computing.

When I purchased my iMac a couple of years ago, I knew it could run Windows, but I didn't want it to run Windows. I'm sure I wasn't the only one feeling this way when I made the Apple shift.

I wonder if anyone has ever did a survey of users who have made the PC to Apple changeover and have never installed Windows on their Mac?

I traveled the same road & the journey will be complete on the Jan. 17th. When I receive my MacBook pro!! The feeling like buying a new home, in a upscale neighbor hood. Can't wait!!!
post #39 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

The "halo" of the iPhone and iPad are fantastic for Mac. It's what the haters don't understand.

The iPad is the best tablet- no argument there from anyone.
Are there better media organizers than iTunes? Sure.
Can you buy a faster pc than what an iMac or mini can offer? Sure.
Is there a better phone than an iPhone? Debatable- depending on your needs. But on specs- yes.
Better routers and bakup options than a time capsule/airport? Yes
Is roku by itself better than an apple tv? Without question.

But therein lies the problem. I never argue Apple products individually. As a whole, they are top end, but people could argue (and be right) that a roku is better than an ATV. But what they cannot understand- until they are fully immersed In the ecosystem is how much better each product is with the other and how many features are added. The iPhone is great- but WAY better with a Mac (for the cloud). Apple Tv is ok standalone- but with mirroring, iTunes match, etc- it's unbeatable.

These companies will never get it. It's not about making a computer better than MacBook air. That can be done. It's about making things that not only work together, but improve with each component you add. Am I a prisoner to Apple because of this. Yes. But I'm here voluntarily. If there was a better prison, I'd go there. But there isn't anything even remotely close.

Well said!!
post #40 of 105
The 800 pound gorilla doesn't even need to be in the room.

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