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iOS chief Scott Forstall called Apple's 'CEO-in-waiting' - Page 2

post #41 of 61
1/17/12 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

What exactly are you basing that on? What makes him a 'true product visionary' over say, Cue, Schiller or Ive? I think they all contribute to it in different ways. Steve told Walter Isaacson that Ive understood Apple at its core better than anyone.

I don't think Tim Cook needs to be a product visionary. If Steve felt that was necessary he would have groomed someone else to be CEO. I think it would be a mistake to groom someone to be like Steve. There will never be another Steve. Anyway Tim Cook probably isn't going anywhere for a long while so it seems silly for Lashinsky (or anyone else) to speculate on the next CEO.

Yes, they all contribute. But, IMO, visioneering is not about teamwork or group-think. While input from all sources are helpful and sometimes necessary, it takes an imaginary and strong-minded individual with interest and knowledge of different aspects of a product to pull it off.

Most of the time, what makes a vision successful is not so much how amazing the vision is, but rather the passion of the individual behind it and his drive to make it happen.

If you look at the CVs of the executive teams and what each individual has done before and at Apple, Forstall is easily the most qualified if not the only qualified individual.

And I wasn't talking about another Jobs or Cook going anyhow. So I don't know WTF you mentioned all that in response to my post.
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post #42 of 61
1/17/12 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

exactly. Tim is young. He's not going anywhere. What exactly about Forstall makes him CEO material over any one of the other executives? Eddy Cue and Jony Ive are 20+ year veterans and Schiller's been just as much of a front man as Forstall has.

Everything I've seen about Forstall makes me believe he'd be a better CEO than anyone you just mentioned. He just seems the most Jobs-ish to me, in terms of his passion, his stage presence, charisma, ambition, etc. I took notice of him the first time he went on stage. After 5 minutes I made a mental note to myself that this guy should be Apple's next CEO. He just seemed to 'get it' and seems different. He's the driving force behind iOS and its success. Eddy Cue/ Phil Shiller always gave me the impression of being convention executive type people. I wouldn't want either of them as CEO. Jonny Ive? He needs to stay where he is, as the head designer. I doubt he'd even WANT to be CEO going by what I've read about him. You pre-requisite of X yrs of experience is pretty irrelevant. Forstall has been with Jobs since the days of NeXt. Not like he won't have enough experience for the job if it gets to that point. From everything I've read/heard about him, he's just like SJ in terms of thinking outside the box and pushing the limits of whats possible by having a clear and ambitious vision. Thats exactly whats needed.
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post #43 of 61
1/17/12 at 10:33am
The other dude (Tim Cook) just took over as CEO.

I think it's a bit premature to begin talking about the next CEO just yet.
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post #44 of 61
1/17/12 at 10:50am
Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but as I understand it SJ organized Apple so that Ive reports to no one, not even to Tim Cook. So apparently SJ was either concerned that Forstall may get to CEO and didn't want him wrecking Ive, or SJ didn't want anyone wrecking Ive or his visions, or SJ just created a new position in a company one that is above all, one that answers to no one. The head of design is above reproach, no one can directly direct them. SJ said he was going to elevate the head of design to a top executive CDO, same rank as CFO, or COO, apparently at the end SJ wanted the CDO to not have to answer to anyone, since the others probably don't get it but all think design is below marketing or finance or operations.
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post #45 of 61
1/17/12 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Everything I've seen about Forstall makes me believe he'd be a better CEO than anyone you just mentioned. He just seems the most Jobs-ish to me, in terms of his passion, his stage presence, charisma, ambition, etc. I took notice of him the first time he went on stage. After 5 minutes I made a mental note to myself that this guy should be Apple's next CEO. He just seemed to 'get it' and seems different. He's the driving force behind iOS and its success. Eddy Cue/ Phil Shiller always gave me the impression of being convention executive type people. I wouldn't want either of them as CEO. Jonny Ive? He needs to stay where he is, as the head designer. I doubt he'd even WANT to be CEO going by what I've read about him. You pre-requisite of X yrs of experience is pretty irrelevant. Forstall has been with Jobs since the days of NeXt. Not like he won't have enough experience for the job if it gets to that point. From everything I've read/heard about him, he's just like SJ in terms of thinking outside the box and pushing the limits of whats possible by having a clear and ambitious vision. Thats exactly whats needed.

This. I do understand why the board decided for Cook, though.

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post #46 of 61
1/17/12 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

All Lashinsky did was flesh out a bunch of speculation he published in past Fortune articles. He ran around to a bunch of pundits and former Apple employees (note - not executives for example). Considering its all speculation and largely bottom-up views (which are seldom revealing at the executive level anyway) with which he pads his original thesis, this is designed to coattail on Isaacson's work, and take advantage of the impact of Jobs death. he has fished as many sources as he can - re-dressing and padding out his "Inside Apple" Fortune feature story.

This apparently is his first book, and having read his articles, I'm betting heavily that I already know 99% of the content already. That he targets Forstall is because Forstall has some controversy attached to his reputation. That sells books.

Interesting that Forstall was mentioned 3-4 times at most in Isaacson's book and wasn't interviewed at all. You'd think the CEO in waiting would have received more ink in Jobs official biography.
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post #47 of 61
1/17/12 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Yes, they all contribute. But, IMO, visioneering is not about teamwork or group-think. While input from all sources are helpful and sometimes necessary, it takes an imaginary and strong-minded individual with interest and knowledge of different aspects of a product to pull it off.

Most of the time, what makes a vision successful is not so much how amazing the vision is, but rather the passion of the individual behind it and his drive to make it happen.

If you look at the CVs of the executive teams and what each individual has done before and at Apple, Forstall is easily the most qualified if not the only qualified individual.

And I wasn't talking about another Jobs or Cook going anyhow. So I don't know WTF you mentioned all that in response to my post.

Sorry, I wasn't referring specifically to you in my response. If we go by CVs then Jobs should never have been CEO.
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post #48 of 61
1/17/12 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Everything I've seen about Forstall makes me believe he'd be a better CEO than anyone you just mentioned. He just seems the most Jobs-ish to me, in terms of his passion, his stage presence, charisma, ambition, etc. I took notice of him the first time he went on stage. After 5 minutes I made a mental note to myself that this guy should be Apple's next CEO. He just seemed to 'get it' and seems different. He's the driving force behind iOS and its success. Eddy Cue/ Phil Shiller always gave me the impression of being convention executive type people. I wouldn't want either of them as CEO. Jonny Ive? He needs to stay where he is, as the head designer. I doubt he'd even WANT to be CEO going by what I've read about him. You pre-requisite of X yrs of experience is pretty irrelevant. Forstall has been with Jobs since the days of NeXt. Not like he won't have enough experience for the job if it gets to that point. From everything I've read/heard about him, he's just like SJ in terms of thinking outside the box and pushing the limits of whats possible by having a clear and ambitious vision. Thats exactly whats needed.

I think Ive has made it pretty clear he doesn't want to be a CEO he wants to be a designer. But Steve did tell Walter Isaacson that Ive understood Apple at its core better than anyone else so I don't think it's just Forstall that 'gets it'. They all do. If Forstall is trying to fill Steve's roll or be a mini-Steve I think it's a mistake. There will never be another Steve. And I think it would be a mistake to fill the CEO role with someone trying to be like Steve. There's a reason Steve and the board looked to Tim Cook to fill the CEO roll. I trust their judgement. And since he's only been in the position for less than a year I think it's quite premature to be discussing someone else as CEO. But Lashinsky wants to sell books so why not throw something out there that grabs the headlines?
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post #49 of 61
1/17/12 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Sorry, I wasn't referring specifically to you in my response. If we go by CVs then Jobs should never have been CEO.

First time around, he was the founder. (Well, strictly speaking, he was never the CEO the first time around.) If not for that, he would not have been hired at the beginning. Second time around, he most definitely did have the right CV. The best CV available? That's debatable. But having founded Apple, NeXT and running Pixar successfully, he was qualified.

On the other hand, does Ive give you the impression he can make critical decisions about the roadmap of iOS?
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post #50 of 61
1/17/12 at 11:36am
Not...

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post #51 of 61
1/17/12 at 12:47pm
What would Steve Jobs do?

Oh, wait. We already know: he made Tim Cook CEO. Not Forstall.
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #52 of 61
1/17/12 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

First time around, he was the founder. (Well, strictly speaking, he was never the CEO the first time around.) If not for that, he would not have been hired at the beginning. Second time around, he most definitely did have the right CV. The best CV available? That's debatable. But having founded Apple, NeXT and running Pixar successfully, he was qualified.

On the other hand, does Ive give you the impression he can make critical decisions about the roadmap of iOS?

He probably can't. Just like Forstall probably doesn't know a whole lot about unibody engineering or how the end products are actually made. Apparently Ive spends a lot of time in China, my guess is Forstall doesn't. They all have their strengths in different areas. Btw, I'm not suggesting Ive should be CEO. I don't think he wants to be, and I think his best fit is where he is right now. I think Tim Cook's best fit is as CEO, though I don't doubt Forstall might have ambitions to be CEO one day. This is what Lashinsky told 9to5mac blog:

Quote:
If theres a knock on Forstall, its that he wears his ambition in plainer view than the typical Apple executive. He blatantly accumulated influence in recent years, including, it is whispered, when Jobs was on medical leave.
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post #53 of 61
1/17/12 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I think Ive has made it pretty clear he doesn't want to be a CEO he wants to be a designer. But Steve did tell Walter Isaacson that Ive understood Apple at its core better than anyone else so I don't think it's just Forstall that 'gets it'. They all do. If Forstall is trying to fill Steve's roll or be a mini-Steve I think it's a mistake. There will never be another Steve. And I think it would be a mistake to fill the CEO role with someone trying to be like Steve. There's a reason Steve and the board looked to Tim Cook to fill the CEO roll. I trust their judgement. And since he's only been in the position for less than a year I think it's quite premature to be discussing someone else as CEO. But Lashinsky wants to sell books so why not throw something out there that grabs the headlines?

I never suggested Forstall should be CEO instead of Tim. I was implying he should be his successor. Easily my top pick from the other options.
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post #54 of 61
1/17/12 at 1:57pm
I do agree that Forstall probably has the know-how about the software end of things to pull thing together. To say he oozes passion is a matter of opinion. His presentation skills have polished up since his first gig but he is nowhere near the showman that Jobs was, hands down. I think the company is best served with a collaborative approach. e.g., Cook, Forstall, and Ive working together. I don't know how viable that is with the corporate nature of Apple. For example, Jobs was mercurial because he believed in what he was doing not because he was going after a power grab, which seems to be the MO of Forstall. Being hotheaded "like" Steve Jobs does not mean that those same qualities will have any degree of a similar impact on Apple when a different person emulates them which is what Jobs warned against.
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post #55 of 61
1/17/12 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Interesting that Forstall was mentioned 3-4 times at most in Isaacson's book and wasn't interviewed at all. You'd think the CEO in waiting would have received more ink in Jobs official biography.

the entire book was software light - to say the least.
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post #56 of 61
1/17/12 at 2:14pm
Scott has been accused of grabbing power and resources for his iOS team at the expense of other groups within Apple, such as the Mac hardware and Mac OS teams. If he were to become CEO, would this mean that we can expect even more of this?
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post #57 of 61
1/17/12 at 3:06pm
Whenever they do a presentation, Tim Cook comes accross as a genuine man. Scot Forstall comes accross as an slimey backstabber and from what Ive read thats about right.
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post #58 of 61
1/17/12 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

the entire book was software light - to say the least.

I don't disagree with that. But if it's all about the software how come when the iPhone 4s was released there was this collective disappointment in many quarters b/c it looked just like the iPhone 4. I'm not saying the disappointment was right, but it was there. And no doubt if iPad 3 (or 2s) comes out with exactly the same form factor there will be similar rumblings with people being underwhelmed. Right or wrong I think the hardware is just as important as software.
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post #59 of 61
1/18/12 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

Whenever they do a presentation, Tim Cook comes accross as a genuine man. Scot Forstall comes accross as an slimey backstabber and from what Ive read thats about right.

A backstabber - who was his victim?
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post #60 of 61
1/18/12 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Apparently, it's available now. But if I recall correctly, I remember Jobs commenting and saying it would never be available through Apple.

You have your books confused. In 2005 there appeared "iCon Steve Jobs: The Greatest Second Act in the History of Business" - which is not carried in iBooks. iBooks currently is taking pre-orders on Adam Lashinsky's new book, and he continues to be persona grata at Apple.

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post #61 of 61
1/19/12 at 1:15am
Yes - it appears he IS a "wanna-be" Steve Jobs clone, just like many young "try hards" at many companies. Forstall becoming AAPL head would be an absolute disaster. An "Ego" and a "Vision" are two different things ...
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