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Hand-me-down iPhones good for both carriers and Apple, study finds

post #1 of 39
Thread Starter 
iPhones entering a growing "secondary market" from upgrading owners are allowing carriers to increase subscribership without paying subsidies as Apple gains new initiates to its iOS ecosystem.

A study released on Tuesday by Consumer Intelligence Research Partners (CIRP) found that the secondary mobile phone market, or used handsets that find new life with a second owner, has blossomed since the launch of the iPhone 4S in October 2011 and could be a source of found income for both telecoms and Apple, reports All Things D.

The study reveals that old iPhones often see new life as an economical way of entrance into the Apple ecosystem and helps to explain some of the incongruities seen between the number of carrier activations and handset sales data.

CIRP notes that 53 percent of new iPhone owners introduced their old handset to the secondary market, with a majority 49 percent being older iterations of Apple's popular mobile smartphone, followed by Blackberry with 21 percent and Android with 15 percent. Remaining handsets entering the secondary market were specified as "other" and constituted another 15 percent.

“IPhones also had the advantage of having a useful second life as iPod touch substitutes, which made their used value a little clearer from the start," said CIRP co-founder Mike Levin. "As a GSM phone, AT&T iPhones also could be [unlocked] for use on other GSM networks, so there was an early secondary market for iPhones on other carriers — though this was, of course, limited to more savvy and aggressive technology consumers.”


Source: CIRP


Of the surveyed new phone buyers who gave their old iPhone to another person, 87 percent said they expected the recipient to actiate the smartphone on a wireless network.

CIRP estimates that 11 percent of iPhone activations in the test period were previously-used handsets, meaning that carriers gained new iPhone subscribers without having to pay subsidies to Apple. The firm guesses that AT&T and Verizon saved between $400 million and $800 million in subsidy costs, or about $400 every secondary market iPhone activated. Analysts estimate that iPhone sales for the first fiscal quarter range from 25 million to 36 million units.

While the economic boosts from the burgeoning secondary market are somewhat quantifiable for mobile carriers, Apple's gains are more subjective.

“We think the secondary market is both detrimental and beneficial to Apple,” Levin said. “It hurts Apple because it creates competition for new iPhones, which we see in the relatively modest sales of reduced-price iPhone 4 and free iPhone 3G units. But it also benefits the company because used iPhone customers aspire to own the newest and best iPhone, so they are likely future new phone customers. In fact, they are likely new entrants to the Apple ecosystem, who otherwise would not have found a way in.”

New secondary market iPhone users are also potentially new iTunes users who will make music, video and app purchases, and may be candidates to buy existing or future Apple devices once integrated into the company's ecosystem.
post #2 of 39
Apple is so stupid for making their devices so desirable and well made that they can be used years later. If only they were smarter like other vendors.

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post #3 of 39
They need another category - thrown away or scrapped - which would show how Apple products are seldom merely discarded, and keep their value well beyond any android or blackberry product. How many competitors' products are sitting in the back of drawers among discarded electronic junk?

I have sold my iphones (sold 3 over the last two years) for$280, $330, and $360. Anyone want to guess what the "latest" one-year-old android or blackberry would sell for?
post #4 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

Anyone want to guess what the "latest" one-year-old android or blackberry would sell for?

There are several sites that buy back old CE we could check we could compare to how much they pay for iPhones.

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post #5 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Apple is so stupid for making their devices so desirable and well made that they can be used years later. If only they were smarter like other vendors.

I find it funny that Android phones are less likely to be given as a gift compared to a blackberry or "Other". What does that say about P.O.S Android phones?

I'll wait for an Android shill to spin it as "Android phones are so valuable, that no one wants to part with theirs."... </sarcasm>
post #6 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Apple is so stupid for making their devices so desirable and well made that they can be used years later. If only they were smarter like other vendors.

It is amazing really, for years built in obsolescence was seen as the only way to make money in hardware and this upstart Apple comes along with this wacky new paradigm; make things well that people pass on and actually want another newer one ... truly original thinking. Cool thing too is this idea is a bit harder to copy!
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post #7 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

It is amazing really, for years built in obsolescence was seen as the only way to make money in hardware and this upstart Apple comes along with this wacky new paradigm; make things well that people pass on and actually want another newer one ... truly original thinking. Cool thing too is this idea is a bit harder to copy!

I wouldn't call it original thinking but definitely original (to this day) in the mobile arena.

Like I always say, other OEMs and carriers are stuck on an old mindset...unaware that Apple changed more than just smartphoning, they changed the entire paradigm of the hardware AND the software.
post #8 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

I wouldn't call it original thinking but definitely original (to this day) in the mobile arena.

Like I always say, other OEMs and carriers are stuck on an old mindset...unaware that Apple changed more than just smartphoning, they changed the entire paradigm of the hardware AND the software.

Not original thinking, if you ask me. Between the HW & SW, so much value is built into all of Apple's products that they have always had a tremendous after-life resale market. Their stuff is just that good. I challenge anyone to come up with any comparable CE/computer device against one of Apple's in an after-life resale scenario....laptop, desktop, tablet, anything.

I was just about to sell my 8 year old PowerBook G4 for $300 until I spilled water in the keyboard and fried the sucker.

TIP: Never walk upstairs with an open laptop in one hand and a cup of water in the other....in the dark. I miscounted steps as I climbed while reading the screen and misjudged the last step. A big dollop of water sloshed from the cup to the keyboard. What an idiot. Multitasking at its dumbest.
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post #9 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

There are several sites that buy back old CE we could check we could compare to how much they pay for iPhones.

I just went to Gazelle.com

Got a qoute of $104.00 for iPhone 3GS 32 GB

Got a GOOSE EGG for a Droid A855 and during the description I gave the Android the best of everything... ie no water damage, least amount of dents, dings and scratches, all accessories available and is in good working condition... What's it worth? According to Gazelle...

"Unfortunately, we can't offer you any money for this item

Even though we can't pay you, we'd still like to help you recycle it responsibly. It's easy. Just click the 'recycle' button to add it to your box. As long as something else in your box has value, we'll still pay for shipping."

So tried Samsung Galaxy S 4G SGH-T959V... $60.00 Maybe one can do better on Ebay?!

Checked iPhone 4 32GB ATT Flawless = $200.00, Good = $173.00 and get this BROKEN (does not power on or broken LCD Screen or Broken, Cracked Missing Parts, ie ringer switch, charging ports etc.) = $65.00 take that Samsung!

http://www.gazelle.com/catalog?keywords=iPhone


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post #10 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

While the economic boosts from the burgeoning secondary market are somewhat quantifiable for mobile carriers, Apple's gains are more subjective.

We think the secondary market is both detrimental and beneficial to Apple, Levin said. It hurts Apple because it creates competition for new iPhones, which we see in the relatively modest sales of reduced-price iPhone 4 and free iPhone 3G units. But it also benefits the company because used iPhone customers aspire to own the newest and best iPhone, so they are likely future new phone customers. In fact, they are likely new entrants to the Apple ecosystem, who otherwise would not have found a way in.

New secondary market iPhone users are also potentially new iTunes users who will make music, video and app purchases, and may be candidates to buy existing or future Apple devices once integrated into the company's ecosystem.

If the old phone was sold rather than handed down, Apple can also benefit from the resale value of the old phone being put toward a higher tier new phone.
post #11 of 39
Gave 3GS to my teenage daughter and put her on AT&T prepaid plan for $25 per month (unlimited text but no web). My iPhone-4 will end up in the same hands once Apple releases LTE/4"+ device.
post #12 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

I just went to Gazelle.com

Got a qoute of $104.00 for iPhone 3GS 32 GB

Got a GOOSE EGG for a Droid A855 and during the description I gave the Android the best of everything... ie no water damage, least amount of dents, dings and scratches, all accessories available and is in good working condition... What's it worth? According to Gazelle...

"Unfortunately, we can't offer you any money for this item

Even though we can't pay you, we'd still like to help you recycle it responsibly. It's easy. Just click the 'recycle' button to add it to your box. As long as something else in your box has value, we'll still pay for shipping."

So tried Samsung Galaxy S 4G SGH-T959V... $60.00 Maybe one can do better on Ebay?!

Checked iPhone 4 32GB ATT Flawless = $200.00, Good = $173.00 and get this BROKEN (does not power on or broken LCD Screen or Broken, Cracked Missing Parts, ie ringer switch, charging ports etc.) = $65.00 take that Samsung!

http://www.gazelle.com/catalog?keywords=iPhone

I was only able to find one phone that was higher than the 16GB iPhone 4S's $297 sale value with everything working and intact. The Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket SGH-I727 on AT&T with the same capacity under the same conditions is $298.

Note that they list 23 models for Galaxy and 4 different Galaxy S II models, yet all fall well under the iPhone except the AT&T model that came out scarcely 2 months prior. I'm guessing that AT&T clearly adds to the resale value yet I thought everyone was going to leave AT&T once Verizon was selling the iPhone.

PS: Another interesting point is that the 16GB iPhone 4S's no commitment price is $100 more than the Galaxy S II. Now, both are sold at the same price on contract so that is actually a win for the Galaxy S II as it means it's resale value is closer to the original price than the iPhone's. I didn't account for how prices drop from month to month which could be the reason this model on AT&T is higher the ones on the other US carriers which released theres 1 to 2 months ago. But that's really a fringe case to sell such a new phone; the way you did it with older models makes a lot more since for the average user who can now upgrade to a newer device from an on older one.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #13 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

Not original thinking, if you ask me. Between the HW & SW, so much value is built into all of Apple's products that they have always had a tremendous after-life resale market. Their stuff is just that good. I challenge anyone to come up with any comparable CE/computer device against one of Apple's in an after-life resale scenario....laptop, desktop, tablet, anything.

I have to agree--this longevity concept is not new to Apple, though it may be new to mobile handsets...
My PowerBook 160 was upgrading to the latest OS for 6-7 years and worked fine for years after. I may not have spent as much on Apple products but it helped me sell 5-10 Macs to others even in Apple's dark days...
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post #14 of 39
The carriers love it when users activate pre-owned phones. They charge the same amount for a voice/data plan on an old phone as they do for one that contains a huge subsidy. They all do it so you can't threaten to go to the competition when they won't offer you a deal. It's as big a scam as their charges for text messaging, but there just doesn't seem to be any backlash.

Unless you're going to demote your smart phone to a pre-paid "dumb" phone there's just no point activating an old phone when you could get a brand new one for almost the same total cost.
post #15 of 39
My wife and I gave our 3G iPhones to our niece and nephew for Christmas, as we had upgraded to 4S models. They aren't even using them as phones, just iPods, and they are never without them. They have since asked for iTunes gift cards for their birthdays, so they can buy apps and music.
post #16 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Apple is so stupid for making their devices so desirable and well made that they can be used years later. If only they were smarter like other vendors.

Unless you're being sarcastic, it is not stupid at all. It is all about retaining customer base. That include third party manufacturers, service providers and publishers on top of the actual customer (device owner). This is not something thought of beforehand but rather a by-product of Apple from its early days (the era at that time in term of how computer is used). Over time, it got honed down almost indepedently of Apple's effort to the point they are now. That's why competitors is still at lost. Desirability meet reputation.
post #17 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

They need another category - thrown away or scrapped - which would show how Apple products are seldom merely discarded

Okay, so Apple products are not trashed.
Quote:
and keep their value well beyond any android or blackberry product. How many competitors' products are sitting in the back of drawers among discarded electronic junk

So Android and Blackberry products are not trashed either?
Then they are sitting in the back of a drawer along with the old Apple products that are not sold or gifted to trashed.. .
post #18 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash-reverse View Post

Unless you're being sarcastic, it is not stupid at all. It is all about retaining customer base. That include third party manufacturers, service providers and publishers on top of the actual customer (device owner). This is not something thought of beforehand but rather a by-product of Apple from its early days (the era at that time in term of how computer is used). Over time, it got honed down almost indepedently of Apple's effort to the point they are now. That's why competitors is still at lost. Desirability meet reputation.

Mmmmm I think you got it in the first few words...
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post #19 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Ferrari View Post

My wife and I gave our 3G iPhones to our niece and nephew for Christmas, as we had upgraded to 4S models. They aren't even using them as phones, just iPods, and they are never without them. They have since asked for iTunes gift cards for their birthdays, so they can buy apps and music.

We do the same. Old iPhones make great iPods for kids.
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post #20 of 39
Learned my lesson re SIM cards. The iPhone 4 uses a smaller sim than my old phone. When I upgraded, the geek yanked my old sim and, for no good reason, folded it in half and tossed it. If you are ever in this position and want to turn an old iPhone into an iTouch, restore it to factory settings, borrow a sim from a friend, pop it in the old iPhone, plug it in and launch iTunes. Follow the prompt and within a few seconds it is ready to go. Remove the borrowed sim and you are done.
post #21 of 39
It's easy for existing users who want to upgrade to do so, because they can recover a good part of the cost by selling the previous phone.

It also means more revenue from more devices using the app store.

It also means selling phones to guys like me who hate artificial obsolescence. I am only on my second iPhone, and that's just because the first one was stolen!
post #22 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by TYancy View Post

Learned my lesson re SIM cards. The iPhone 4 uses a smaller sim than my old phone. When I upgraded, the geek yanked my old sim and, for no good reason, folded it in half and tossed it. If you are ever in this position and want to turn an old iPhone into an iTouch, restore it to factory settings, borrow a sim from a friend, pop it in the old iPhone, plug it in and launch iTunes. Follow the prompt and within a few seconds it is ready to go. Remove the borrowed sim and you are done.

They probably trashed the sim card so that 611 couldn't be called with it. Even without the sim card you can still call 911, though it's not obvious. 611 can be called as long as the sim card works (eg not reported stolen.) The last thing you want your kids to do is call 611 and tell the CSR to enable Data. Calling 611 will call the carrier the SIM card or underlying switch is connected to, it's not guaranteed.
post #23 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason98 View Post

Gave 3GS to my teenage daughter and put her on AT&T prepaid plan for $25 per month (unlimited text but no web). My iPhone-4 will end up in the same hands once Apple releases LTE/4"+ device.

Thats pretty brilliant. Because they can still use it just like a touch (web on wifi) with iphone features and no data plan. I rarely use 3G ever. If my company didn't pay for it and I wanted to save a grand a year, that's a great option. (do kids really need a data plan?)

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post #24 of 39
[Emphasis supplied in the quotes below]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason98 View Post

Gave 3GS to my teenage daughter and put her on AT&T prepaid plan for $25 per month (unlimited text but no web).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

The carriers ... charge the same amount for a voice/data plan on an old phone as they do for one that contains a huge subsidy.

Unless you're going to demote your smart phone to a pre-paid "dumb" phone there's just no point activating an old phone when you could get a brand new one for almost the same total cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Thats pretty brilliant. Because they can still use it just like a touch (web on wifi) with iphone features and no data plan. I rarely use 3G ever.

This article is very timely for me - despite all my years of dealing with tech and phone companies, all these options are very confusing.

My old dumb phone (Verizon) is dying. I have a minutes and TXT plan with a (grandfathered) 20% union discount. I also have an accumulated $100 credit towards a new phone with 2 year re-up (they no longer offer this for new accounts, but I'm pretty sure those who were promised them still get them).

I'd like to keep the grandfathered discount (also no longer available) and keep that credit to use when Apple brings out a 4G model.
(Note: I hold onto things as long as they work well - so I plan to keep a new iPhone for several years, which is why I'm holding out for 4G. I mean, my 2004 iBook is still going strong in my house as my accounting, podcast playing and facebook in bed machine except for a seldom used dead key (which I use the virtual keyboard for), reduced Wi-Fi speeds on the net and a dead battery that would cost more than the whole resale value of the machine to replace.) And I can live without 3G net on my phone. I'm going to buy a new iPad when they're released for my mobile computing needs and use the data plan on an ad hoc basis when traveling.

So these are my questions, if anyone can help :

............... 1. If I buy a used Verizon aftermarket iPhone and walk into Verizon, can I activate it as a phone and TXTing device without adding a data plan?
................... (And so keep my present plan, my discount, my credit, my old phone #, etc.)

................... Or will I be forced to either get a data plan anyway?

Update: I happened to pass a Verizon store and got the skinny: One can keep their plan, and there's no contract, but unless you bring in a dumb phone you have to add a data plan. Ridic!

................... Or have to change to a prepaid plan and so lose my discount and credit?

Update: Don't have to change my plan, but this is "cool": Verizon apparently has the right to deprecate the terms of a contract after the fact. My last 2 year agreement had a $100 credit for "new every two." Big Red just informed me that it's now worth $50. Info highway robbery!

............... 2. If I can just keep my present package with the used iPhone, will the phone still access the net on WiFi? (I.e., for use until I get my iPad and also for when
................... I don't have the pad with me after I get it)?

Update: N/A [see above]

In sum, can I employ a used iPhone as both a dumb phone AND a Wi-Fi capable iPod touch substitute?

Update: Nupe!!

Any replies much appreciated....

Update: Or teeth gnashings or lamentations.

Bonus Update: the worst problem on my current old dumb phone was the battery - well, it has a cracked front screen, but the inner one's just as good, so can live with that. Turns out Verizon doesn't stock it any more, but the store had one in the back room they gave me for $10 (instead of $39.95), so I may make it the next iPhone's release after all without an interim used phone.

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post #25 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

do kids really need a data plan?

iMessage comes to mind. But I agree, kids under the age of xxx, whatever, can be okay with WiFi. Maybe Tallest Skill can comment on where he uses his iPhone, since he doesn't have a data plan.
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post #26 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

iMessage comes to mind. But I agree, kids under the age of xxx, whatever, can be okay with WiFi. Maybe Tallest Skill can comment on where he uses his iPhone, since he doesn't have a data plan.

I also don't have a phone plan, remember.

I have my actual phone, this thing, and I carry my iPhone in my other pocket.

Every year since 2008 on the day of release of the new iPhone model, I have gone to a branch of each telecom in turn and asked them if I can have an iPhone without a data plan (basically just use my current plan). They always say no. I then ask them if I can pay full price for said iPhone and continue to use my current plan. They always say no. I then ask them if I can pay for the unlocked model, bring it to them, and continue to use my current plan. They always say no.

I then respectfully end the conversation and walk out of the store. I have done this since the launch of the iPhone 3G.

They force us to have data plans. And then they act like infants when we actually use said data. AND they refuse to allow us to alleviate the pressure on their network by not having a data plan.

I'd be fine without a data plan. I'm fine without one now. Not just kids.
post #27 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'd be fine without a data plan. I'm fine without one now. Not just kids.

Ok.... But how can you surf the web and drive?

Why do you have an iPhone and not just an iPod touch?

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post #28 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Why do you have an iPhone and not just an iPod touch?

I won it back on Day One 2007. I had no plan to get an iPhone at that time because there was absolutely no AT&T service where I live, I certainly couldn't swing $70 a month, and I didn't see much need for cellular dial-up back then, particularly when I had Wi-Fi in so many places.

I've just used it as an everything-but-a-phone ever since.

I eventually did get a 1st-gen iPod touch, but as a freebie from the education discount of a friend of the family. She didn't want it. What a shame.
post #29 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I also don't have a phone plan, remember.

I have my actual phone, this thing, and I carry my iPhone in my other pocket.

Every year since 2008 on the day of release of the new iPhone model, I have gone to a branch of each telecom in turn and asked them if I can have an iPhone without a data plan (basically just use my current plan). They always say no. I then ask them if I can pay full price for said iPhone and continue to use my current plan. They always say no. I then ask them if I can pay for the unlocked model, bring it to them, and continue to use my current plan. They always say no.

I then respectfully end the conversation and walk out of the store. I have done this since the launch of the iPhone 3G.

They force us to have data plans. And then they act like infants when we actually use said data. AND they refuse to allow us to alleviate the pressure on their network by not having a data plan.

I'd be fine without a data plan. I'm fine without one now. Not just kids.

It looks like the common element in your given requests is you tell them it's an iPhone. They don't need to know the type of phone, the SIM doesn't know any better. Have you asked them to sell you a SIM and plan for an existing feature phone?
post #30 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

It looks like the common element in your given requests is you tell them it's an iPhone. They don't need to know the type of phone, the SIM doesn't know any better. Have you asked them to sell you a SIM and plan for an existing feature phone?

We have Verizon right now (and have since aught one), so SIMs are out of the question. And AT&T automatically adds data plans to your phone if you try to game them like that, so they're out of the question, even though they do have at least phone service where I live now. T-Mobile's out, sadly, and Sprint says the same thing as everyone else; not without a data plan.
post #31 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I also don't have a phone plan, remember.

I have my actual phone, this thing, and I carry my iPhone in my other pocket.

They force us to have data plans. And then they act like infants when we actually use said data. AND they refuse to allow us to alleviate the pressure on their network by not having a data plan.

Wow. Crazy telco's. Over here in The Netherlands we got a € 10 data plan, unlimited, when the iPhone2G, sorry¡, iPhone3G, came out in 2008. Stayed that way for, I believe, 2.5 years. Now it's around € 12,50 with a 500MB cap, some cap at 1GB.

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Sorry to hear you don't have reception in your area. For your sake you better have a fast DSL.
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post #32 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

We have Verizon right now (and have since aught one), so SIMs are out of the question. And AT&T automatically adds data plans to your phone if you try to game them like that, so they're out of the question, even though they do have at least phone service where I live now. T-Mobile's out, sadly, and Sprint says the same thing as everyone else; not without a data plan.

How does AT&T know? Do they check the IMEI and find it's an Apple phone?
post #33 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

How does AT&T know? Do they check the IMEI and find it's an Apple phone?

They figured out I was breaking my contractual obligations when tethering even though the tethering setup I used was native to the iPhone via a service from jailbreaking that said AT&T couldn't detect it. After they warned me I still used it and months later (though after doing this for 4 years) they finally removed my Unlimited plan. I took a risk and got caught. I full except that I was violating my contract. But anyway, it seems they have ways of figuring out what's going through their network in ways I hadn't imaged.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #34 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

They figured out I was breaking my contractual obligations when tethering even though the tethering setup I used was native to the iPhone via a service from jailbreaking that said AT&T couldn't detect it. After they warned me I still used it and months later (though after doing this for 4 years) they finally removed my Unlimited plan. I took a risk and got caught. I full except that I was violating my contract. But anyway, it seems they have ways of figuring out what's going through their network in ways I hadn't imaged.

Huh, interesting. Never knew that. Jeff asked TS, why are you replying?
I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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post #35 of 39
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Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Huh, interesting. Never knew that. Jeff asked TS, why are you replying?

I don't see the problem, it was useful and interesting information, and it wasn't a question that could only be answered by Tallest Skil.
post #36 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I also don't have a phone plan, remember.

I have my actual phone, this thing, and I carry my iPhone in my other pocket.

Every year since 2008 on the day of release of the new iPhone model, I have gone to a branch of each telecom in turn and asked them if I can have an iPhone without a data plan (basically just use my current plan). They always say no. I then ask them if I can pay full price for said iPhone and continue to use my current plan. They always say no. I then ask them if I can pay for the unlocked model, bring it to them, and continue to use my current plan. They always say no.

I then respectfully end the conversation and walk out of the store. I have done this since the launch of the iPhone 3G.

They force us to have data plans. And then they act like infants when we actually use said data. AND they refuse to allow us to alleviate the pressure on their network by not having a data plan.

I'd be fine without a data plan. I'm fine without one now. Not just kids.


You can take your iPhone and get an H2O sim for it.
They will let you buy minutes and texts with no data. They sub-lease AT&T's network and your iPhone will see the SIM as an AT&T sim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

We have Verizon right now (and have since aught one), so SIMs are out of the question. And AT&T automatically adds data plans to your phone if you try to game them like that, so they're out of the question, even though they do have at least phone service where I live now. T-Mobile's out, sadly, and Sprint says the same thing as everyone else; not without a data plan.

If Verizon is the best option in your area, then you should investigate a used CDMA iPhone and putting it on PagePlus Cellular. They sub-lease Verizon's network. They have some great deals including $12 a month for 250 min/250 texts and 10 megs. $80 for 2000 minutes that do not expire for a year ($.04 a minute). The deal that is really sizzling in my opinion is their $30 a month 1200 minute talk/3000 text and 100 megs of data plan.

I have my entire family on prepaid plans. The wife and I both have iPhones (though as I mentioned in another thread I'm playing around with the Atrix as well.) If you aren't on contract or subsidizing a phone you could literally take the same phone in your hand and use it on Page Plus tomorrow.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #37 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Jeff asked TS, why are you replying?

You, me, Jeff or any one might quote another poster but in an open forum all can and should answer if they feel they have something relevant to add to the discussion. I wasn't able to directly answer Jeff's query but I hope my experience read by him and others could help us all get more information than we would have collected separately.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #38 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

How does AT&T know? Do they check the IMEI and find it's an Apple phone?

As far as I've read from everyone who has tried it, that's exactly it. They WILL find you and they WILL add the data.

Of course, that's actually moot for me. AT&T actually lets first-gen iPhone users have plans without data legitimately.

So why do I still not have a plan on it? Well, my family has had Verizon for the last decade and their service, both cellular and customer, has been unparalleled. When I wrote a message directly to their (heavens, I forget who it was now. And they seem to have removed their executive contact page since I sent that message hmm), I didn't receive a stock e-mail back, I received an e-mail asking when would be a good time to call me. I replied and received a call from (not the actual guy, unfortunately) a member of his office (at least he said that) who thanked me for my concern and talked to me further about my situation (I can repost the original message I sent here, if people would like).

So that was nice. The only other time I've had that happen from a company was when I got an e-mail from Steve Jobs back when I asked him about the MacBook Pro's 8600M problem (his answer wasn't in line with what Apple eventually did, but he DID reply ).

And hey, we all know how terrible AT&T is. I just haven't had the gumption to switch, and really, who wants to use a five year old phone, even with a simulacrum of iOS 5.1? If this keeps up many years more, I think that I CAN see myself buying two more 1st-gen iPhones for the other two members of my family who want them and moving us all to AT&T, but right now I'm still holding on to a single piece of hope that eventually we'll be able to have the same rights granted to us as even CANADA allows and get iPhones without data.
post #39 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You, me, Jeff or any one might quote another poster but in an open forum all can and should answer if they feel they have something relevant to add to the discussion. I wasn't able to directly answer Jeff's query but I hope my experience read by him and others could help us all get more information than we would have collected separately.

Ah ok, thanks. You too Jeff. I agree with what you're saying, just came across as awkward as your reply started with "They figured out I... "
I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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