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Apple's education event will focus on textbooks for K-12 students - report - Page 2

post #41 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerstalker View Post

Knock it down to 8Gb, get rid of the camera (don't want kids taking naughty pictures with the schools property) get rid of bluetooth, keep the current res screen

So, ruin it, in essence. An 8GB tablet? Why do so many people think this idea is anything but laughable?

Quote:
Create a slightly different version of iOS



Quote:
easily manage/image multiple iPads at the same time.

One Apple ID per institution, parental controls to prevent unauthorized purchases. Simple.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #42 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

Hope this helps to bring down the cost of textbooks. Also hope it's not a US only thing.

Really like the idea of making it easier to self publish and anything that helps push out Adobe and their rip-off pricing is very welcome.

I can see the day when we have a national curriculum app which has all the required textbooks included so you don't have to go and buy them all separately. The iPad really does have so much potential to change things like no computer before it.

I would like to point out something. Today wikipedia used Java Script to block access and display their political views instead of the online Encyclopedia.

Remember when decent Encyclopedias were very expensive and required a yearly update subscription?

Well using Safari it was easy to unblock Wikipedia by opening PREFERENCES, going to the SECURITY TAB and deselecting JavaScript. No more Wiki blocking on the Mac or Windows!

On the iPad it was slightly more difficult but I made an interesting discovery with relates to this thread. There is a really well done iPad app I found called Offline Wikipedia for $4.95. It took about 24 minutes to download the entire text to something like 84,000 Wiki entries so in effect I have an Encyclopedia on the iPad that needs no connection to the Internet. And it totally free of those Google ads you see all the time on the Android! I hate that exploitation by our Internet Overlords when studying or teaching.

$5 bucks to an Android user is outrageous but I don't have time to dink with all the little things of finding and installing an Android app that may be riddled with malware or a trojan.

Apple just makes everything so easy. I picked the app on the Mac in iTunes and a few minutes later when I picked up the iPad from its fancy audio dock I noticed the app was already in place there too. No connection to a computer was required to put the app in place!

$5 is nothing compared to the money I spent on heavy bulky 'dead tree' encyclopedias over the years. I think that for $0.99 (I will pay towards server costs) every six months or so that the ability to completely download a complete update from A to z to be a bargain.

Can you picture how much space all that data took up in the fifties and sixties? Would you even dream of carrying more than one of those books with you to class?

This app even allows you to automatically add images and the latest data if you have a connection when you access the stored data. It then caches the new data as an update to your Encyclopedia so you still have it when no access is available.

With iOS 5 multi touch gestures enabled it is quite natural to use four fingers to swipe the Wiki page to the left to expose my Notability notes or even additional books in iBooks, GoodReader, Kindle Reader, or iSilo.

Copy and paste seems so natural just as moving these things around on a desk in normal study.

But there is one really killer iPad feature. I can select text in any of them and have the iPad read that selection aloud in a strong clear female voice while I rest my eyes or follow along meditating on the material.

I can do this in bed, at the desk, sitting in the living room easy chair, waiting in the car, or on a bench in the shade.

My contemporaries all carry a huge catalogue type case filled with books and documents, I carry an iPad!

I can find points faster and more accurately to back up memory when speaking. Each day the iPad becomes a more natural must have tool.

I seldom carry a book bag anymore, I have several of them in my trunk, but I carry the iPad everywhere. If I need more I now carry a Mac Book Pro which compliments the iPad and I still am carrying only a fraction of the weight of the old way.

Students everywhere can relate to the change once they experience it. It simply makes no sense to carry a dead tree anymore.

In summary look at the costs, $5 for a simple 3 GB encyclopedia and reader app, $1.00 a year for complete updates. Free automatic incremental updates of the data you most frequently access compared to the hundreds of dollars of the old way.

Textbooks may not drop that perceptibly at first but they will drop eventually in annual cost and be a better more up to date product supporting our educational system.
post #43 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4phun View Post

Today wikipedia used Java Script to block access and display their political views instead of the online Encyclopedia.

Well using Safari it was easy to unblock Wikipedia by opening PREFERENCES, going to the SECURITY TAB and deselecting JavaScript. No more Wiki blocking on the Mac or Windows!

Thanks for completely missing the point of the voluntary blocking of the website.

Quote:
It took about 24 minutes to download the entire text to something like 84,000 Wiki entries so in effect I have an Encyclopedia on the iPad that needs no connection to the Internet.

84,000 ≠ 1,000,000+

Quote:
And it totally free of those Google ads you see all the time on the Android!

Wait, Wikipedia has ads, but only on Android?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #44 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Thanks for completely missing the point of the voluntary blocking of the website.

Partial quote


Well said.

Sheesh ... I missed Wikipedia today!

Let's hope sanity prevails and the Pirate sites are stopped and the owners arrested by traditional feet on the ground not simply blocked by damaging the Internet.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
post #45 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruda View Post


6. No real way to massively deploy iPads (like the way you can set up the Mac OS exactly the way that you want it, make an image of it, and push it over the network to other Macs).

That's not totally true. You can't do it over a network but you could totally set one up, make a back up and restore the rest off of that.

Quote:

7. No legal way to monitor/control what users are doing with the iPads (key requirement in an educational setting).

if they are owned by the school then they are totally within their rights to turn on restrictions, put it in the code of conduct that you can't restore the iPad etc. Code of conduct can also be used for things like no Facebook in class time etc. Then teachers can actually get up off their butts and move around the class and monitor that kids are following the rules.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #46 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingNewMedia View Post

Concentrating on K-12 makes no sense to me

Actually it makes a lot of sense. Colleges are already buying in. Grade schools aren't really.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #47 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

One Apple ID per institution, parental controls to prevent unauthorized purchases. Simple.

Simple in theory but currently you can only have something like 10 devices using an Apple ID for apps etc. So unless Apple is going to set up special institution IDs, they won't be able to use the simple route

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #48 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerstalker View Post

K-12 isn't a single grade/age. It is a range, Kindergarden through 12th grade. Our school classes are usually organized as kindergarden, 1st grade, 2nd grade, 3rd grade, etc all the way up to 12th grade. Most students take each grade once over the course of a year (unless they repeat the same grade again because they fail or the parents decide they are not ready to move on, or in rare cases of gifted students they may finish a grade early and move on quickly).

Kindergarden through 5th or 6th grade is usually called grade shcool. 6th or 7th through 8th is called middle school or junior high, and 9th through 12th grade is high school. After graduating from high school students are then eligible to go on to junior college or college.

So it sounds like they are saying this is more geared toward grade/middle/high school where the schools typically give a student a book for each of their courses and the student then returns the book at the end of the class so it can be re-used for the following class. Fines are collected from students that damage the books more than regular wear and tear. In this case a school could theoretically give each student an ipad with whatever books they need on it, and then collect the ipad at the end of the year. If you damage the ipad you have to pay for the damages. Or maybe the students have to supply their own ipads, but they school can loan out so many copies of each textbook in e-book form each year, and then take them back at the end of the year. No more wear and tear on the books, and it's much simpler to upgrade an e-book to a new edition when it's released instead of buying all new textbooks (assuming the publishers will just release free or discounted updates instead of charging for a whole new book).

It sounds like they are avoiding the college textbook situation at this time where most students are forced to buy their own books. Many students buy used books, or sell their used books after they complete the course. This may be a more difficult market to get into because how do you sell a e-book to someone else?



Here's a few hints I learned as I went through college. Buy used if at all possible, even if it is an older version it might be close enough to the same to get by, you might just have to photocopy or borrow a classmates newer version if the questions/problems assigned as homework are different. Sell your old books after the class if over if you don't think you will need them again for other courses/later on in your career. Even then you may be better off selling them and just buying a new copy later on if you need it for your job, you will most likely have more disposable income at that time and can afford it. Don't buy books until after you have started taking a course and find out you will really need it. I had some courses that said I needed books that we only ended up using for a chapter or two, I was able to just borrow/photocopy other's books in order to get through those chapters.

Hope that helps.

Junior high is 7-9 in most places, while 6-8 is middle school.
post #49 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by nw3227 View Post

Currently, certain major states with right-wing leanings have undue influence on the content of textbooks (e.g., the treatment of evolution) because it costs too much to create a special print edition for them and publishers are unwilling to give up that part of the market. As a result, students everywhere are forced to use inferior textbooks. With the transition of textbooks to the iPad, however, it becomes feasible to create more than one edition: a doctrinaire edition for communities that demand that (if the publishers are willing to make that compromise for the money) and an uncensored edition for everyone else. The potential benefits to the educational system are huge.

My cousin teaches in Texas and she hates the curriculum. I asked her why they haven't voted out the people make the decisions on the curriculum, she said that most of the board members are not even educators and educators have no say in what goes into a textbook. My cousin also said that she cannot deviate from what she is told to teach, that's just sad.
post #50 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4phun View Post

I would like to point out something. Today wikipedia used Java Script to block access and display their political views instead of the online Encyclopedia.

Remember when decent Encyclopedias were very expensive and required a yearly update subscription?

Well using Safari it was easy to unblock Wikipedia by opening PREFERENCES, going to the SECURITY TAB and deselecting JavaScript. No more Wiki blocking on the Mac or Windows!

On the iPad it was slightly more difficult but I made an interesting discovery with relates to this thread. There is a really well done iPad app I found called Offline Wikipedia for $4.95. It took about 24 minutes to download the entire text to something like 84,000 Wiki entries so in effect I have an Encyclopedia on the iPad that needs no connection to the Internet. And it totally free of those Google ads you see all the time on the Android! I hate that exploitation by our Internet Overlords when studying or teaching.

$5 bucks to an Android user is outrageous but I don't have time to dink with all the little things of finding and installing an Android app that may be riddled with malware or a trojan.

Apple just makes everything so easy. I picked the app on the Mac in iTunes and a few minutes later when I picked up the iPad from its fancy audio dock I noticed the app was already in place there too. No connection to a computer was required to put the app in place!

$5 is nothing compared to the money I spent on heavy bulky 'dead tree' encyclopedias over the years. I think that for $0.99 (I will pay towards server costs) every six months or so that the ability to completely download a complete update from A to z to be a bargain.

Can you picture how much space all that data took up in the fifties and sixties? Would you even dream of carrying more than one of those books with you to class?

This app even allows you to automatically add images and the latest data if you have a connection when you access the stored data. It then caches the new data as an update to your Encyclopedia so you still have it when no access is available.

With iOS 5 multi touch gestures enabled it is quite natural to use four fingers to swipe the Wiki page to the left to expose my Notability notes or even additional books in iBooks, GoodReader, Kindle Reader, or iSilo.

Copy and paste seems so natural just as moving these things around on a desk in normal study.

But there is one really killer iPad feature. I can select text in any of them and have the iPad read that selection aloud in a strong clear female voice while I rest my eyes or follow along meditating on the material.

I can do this in bed, at the desk, sitting in the living room easy chair, waiting in the car, or on a bench in the shade.

My contemporaries all carry a huge catalogue type case filled with books and documents, I carry an iPad!

I can find points faster and more accurately to back up memory when speaking. Each day the iPad becomes a more natural must have tool.

I seldom carry a book bag anymore, I have several of them in my trunk, but I carry the iPad everywhere. If I need more I now carry a Mac Book Pro which compliments the iPad and I still am carrying only a fraction of the weight of the old way.

Students everywhere can relate to the change once they experience it. It simply makes no sense to carry a dead tree anymore.

In summary look at the costs, $5 for a simple 3 GB encyclopedia and reader app, $1.00 a year for complete updates. Free automatic incremental updates of the data you most frequently access compared to the hundreds of dollars of the old way.

Textbooks may not drop that perceptibly at first but they will drop eventually in annual cost and be a better more up to date product supporting our educational system.

I have yet to meet an educator that will let you use wikipedia as a source for anything other than a good read. Until wikipedia locks down editing and adding articles to educators and researchers, it will not be a useable source.
post #51 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by LonerATO View Post

I have yet to meet an educator that will let you use wikipedia as a source for anything other than a good read. Until wikipedia locks down editing and adding articles to educators and researchers, it will not be a useable source.

Because so few have information that it usable.

Now explain to us why an educator would be updating a page on, say, the history of iOS version history instead of something more relevant to their field and why it being on Wikipedia means it's not useful despite have 98 citations pointing to additional sources for the available data on this single page?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #52 of 55
What are schools going to do when a child breaks, has stolen or loses his/her iPad? Force the parents to buy another and will the school do if the child's parents cannot afford another? Would the school have the students leave the iPads in class? My cousin is a teacher in a poor district, her elementary was unable to get parents to buy a replacement books after their child lost theirs. Her school now has keep books in the classroom and then send the kids home with photocopies of what they are to study and work on at home. I am not saying that the iPad is a terrible tool for the classroom, I feel as though it is a great tool, but should be used by the teacher in the class to help educate.
post #53 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Because so few have information that it usable.

Now explain to us why an educator would be updating a page on, say, the history of iOS version history instead of something more relevant to their field and why it being on Wikipedia means it's not useful despite have 98 citations pointing to additional sources for the available data on this single page?

I never said that information on Wikipedia was not helpful, insightful or meaningful. Wikipedia is not accepted source by the educational community for use in papers or research due to many educators. I should have stated that the pages should be updated or created by verified sources, but locked to the public from editing.
post #54 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by LonerATO View Post

I never said that information on Wikipedia was not helpful, insightful or meaningful. Wikipedia is not accepted source by the educational community for use in papers or research due to many educators. I should have stated that the pages should be updated or created by verified sources, but locked to the public from editing.

I know educators that use WIkipedia and have no problem with students using Wikipedia. That doesn't mean they cite Wikipedia as their source but as I stated before Wikipedia pages are often well cited to back up the information they present. This makes Wikipedia a great resource, hence it's extremely usable.

As for your comment that the site should be locked down to keep the ignorant "public" from editing you clearly don't understand how or why Wikipedia's design make it such a great resource tool for anything one can imagine.

I'd even argue that Wikipedia (and the internet, in general) has given today's students a tremendous lead over previous generations in the ability to think by forcing them to discern good information from bad unlike previous generations were likely to assume everything in a printed and bond encyclopedia was undeniable truth because there was little recourse to search any deeper without extensive effort.

PS: I'm proud to have added to the uselessness of hundreds of Wikipedia articles over the years.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #55 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So, ruin it, in essence. An 8GB tablet? Why do so many people think this idea is anything but laughable?

I dunno. I think an 8GB tablet is a bad idea for general sale, but for a specific use as a school book? It would probably work out pretty well. How big are ebooks? Not very. Even if it was a music class and you needed to add a symphony or 2 to your iPad, so long as it wasn't Wagner's Ring Cycle, you should be fine These would be semi-locked down and kids would not be installing every app they wanted on them. These would have on them what the school wanted there to be. 8GB should be fine for that specific purpose.
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