Mac Pro Refesh in March - Page 7

They were either trolling, ignorant, or unimaginative. The imac is pretty iconic, but it's obvious that others can design their own thing. The HP looks like it took real design time.


They use a very good display panel. I don't recall a terrible number of dithering issues. Apple always used a slightly non standard color temperature setting, but it wasn't too bad. LED backlighting causes some profiling issues with typical off the shelf colorimeters. They mostly compensate with device LUTs which isn't a perfect solution, and



I'm not sure what the net effect is here. It's unappealing to me given some of the longer term issues I've seen with the imac lineup. Obviously mac sales have been dwarfed by their idevices. There are other things that strike me as weird, like the lack of an included keyboard and mouse with the mini.


AMD has been improving it since they bought ATI. You might see some AMD options show up there too. They're using mobile workstation firmware cards for heat reasons in the thing as their upgrade options (I think default is integrated graphics). I don't know what AMD has coming up in mobile firepro cards. Given that they're using mobile cards, it would make sense to wait for kepler quadro m cards, which will probably show up later. Then of course you want to know that there aren't any terrible bugs with the software you use.


They have quite a few display options. Height adjustability is great, and it's one of the things lacking in the imac stand. I'm not sure how they'd maintain balance with a small chin. Most displays use a weighted base with a spring loaded telescopic base for height adjustment. HP seems kind of hit and miss in terms of reliability. Their dreamcolor displays are nice, but quite expensive. Even there, I've read complaints about dithering issues, so I definitely wouldn't go for the first one off the line.


Amusingly you mention this a lot on hardware options as if you were expecting new cpus long ago. I'm guessing you haven't updated in several cycles if you're that worried about a new one?

Marriage just a big Ponzi scheme.

Lemon Bon Bon.

Sent from my New iPad!

I wonder could Apple incorporate quadro gpu and the accessibility & features of the z AIO to make an iMac pro. ?

Looking at the access and design vids I was wondering iMac pro.

I was quite impressed with its access and hardware eg x2 hds and a quadro GPu. Very serviceable.

Not as svelte as an iMac by any stretch. But some nice features pushing the boat on all in ones. From a company that was looking to sell off its pc division...

Over to you apple.

Lemon Bon Bon.

NVidia has tried on some of their Quadro cards. We've never seen a Firepro on a Mac either. Some of the functionality that you can get with workstation drivers would be really nice.

On displays, Apple often picks out nice parts then does kind of a flakey implementation. For one thing if you're using it for work, you don't need a super aggressive matte coating. LG coatings are aggressive because they're cheap. Panels branded by NEC and Hitachi in the past used matte coatings too, but they lacked some of the obnoxious effects. They were generally attached to expensive displays. Apple seems to set the levels a bit weird on those things too. Highlight details are sometimes difficult to discern. I don't blame them for the lack of an OSD. Some displays are released with controls that are accessible that really shouldn't be there. I've seen controls like sharpness accessible where it really shouldn't be touched. If they had either a matrix or LUT based system of display communication with a working SDK, third party companies could build appropriate colorimeter support rather than a profile only kind of situation. Assuming a colorimeter that tests well with such a display (like within a + or - 1.5 to 2 delta E margin of error assuming both display and colorimeter are within reasonable spec) or a spectrophotometer (kind of expensive for such a use) you could expect slightly better consistency and better detail. 10 bit thunderbolt drivers would be even more amazing for shadow detail given the weirdness inherent with gamma 2.2 corrections. If you look at a gamma 2.2 curve the toe is really sharp so you have very few points dedicated to shadow values. The software I use eats some of the black levels to even out color temperature throughout the range so that the panel stays as close to 6500k as possible from white to black.

Okay I'm going off topic here. The point was that if they wanted to, Apple could make a more sophisticated and controllable display without bombarding the average consumer with complex menus.

If Jony Ive has so much alleged power at Apple as has been suggested I think as Pro users we can forget anything useful coming out of Apple. It seems to me IMHO that all Ives and Apple are interested are two things, making every thing as thin as possible and to look like a work of art. If the pursuit of these goals mean no expandability and not using the most powerful components in their tech well thats fine. Apple from my point of view is now telling people what they want out of technology and how they will use it whether they like it or not, we know better you people know nothing so get used to it and just buy an iPad.

I my self will be in the market for a new Mac for use with Lightwave and ZBrush around November time. I think I will wait and see what Apple do with the Mac this year especially the Mac Pro but I really don't hold out that much hope. Looking at the preview of Mountain Lion it seems every thing is geared towards making the Mac an iPad and iPhone. So if you spend all day tweeting, posting on Facebook and taking photo's and video of every mundane thing you see well you are in luck. If you happen to be a creative (pro user) well tough luck. I think the bottom line is that Apple is now a consumer electronics company of the like of Sony and pro workstations are to niche for them to be bothered with now.

Having said all that I hope I am wrong and the Mac gets some amazing updates and some real innovation this year. I really would be happy to eat my words in that case. As an Apple user since 1990 I really would be sad to move to Windows but that HP Z1 really does look good and ticks all the boxes.

Rant over LOL :-P

I agree with you 100%. Apple is done with the pro user period. I will start looking at the HP Z800 workstation. This seems like a great system to me.

That may very well be ive's interest, but don't forget the hardware is designed by engineers.

That is just plain asinine. If you can't see the energy they put into he laptop line up then you must be blind. Apples problem is that they have focused on laptops and pretty much have abandoned desktop development.

Now they are likely doing that because of weak sales of desktop hardware. The problem is they have created a self fulfilling prophecy here. Hopefully they have seen the errors of their ways.

Well this probably won't help you much but I think the Mac Pro as we know it is dead. It is a technology dinosaur. I'm expecting a massive refactoring of what is a Pro machine.

Garbage! You do realize that Sony was and still is in the pro hardware business. Beyond that you are looking at all the glitz in Lion and Mountain Lion marketing and are ignoring the continued improvement to the Mac OS infrastructure that Pro users count on. It is funny that nobody complained when Apple brought its own mail and internet browser to the Mac but all of a sudden Apples support of Twitter means the OS is no longer for professionals. So where is the reason in that? Beyond that I can think of dozens of professionals that make use of photos everyday, just because you can't or don't doesn't mean strong photo processing support isn't welcomed.

Believe me I'm with you on this one! While I disagree with your attitude expressed here I do believe that Apple has damaged themselves significantly when it comes to desktop hardware.

You see this ticks the boxes comment is something I see as a huge problem. Apple isn't going to tick boxes from the past. If they do anything it will be to offer up a whole new set of boxes to tick. That is if there is any sanity left at Apple, they will bring out a platform that will be the basis for another decade of development. That will not include the tick boxes that hardware has been built around for the last decade.

That could make one think that you guys work for HP.


I really don't think you are justified in your opinion anymore than the guy before you. Apple has yet to release any new pro hardware so I can't see how your opinion is even remotely rational. Beyond that Apple has steadily improved its OS making it the ideal platform For high quality apps.

So honestly answer this question what is it that has resulted in this opinion that Apple is done with the Pro user?

I have nothing against looking at alternative solutions but why even bother now? Really would it not make sense to wait for the next generation hardware to hit the streets in volume. That is so that you can honestly evaluate various Sandy Bridge E offerings in combo with the next generation GPUs from AMD and NVidia?

Seriously you guys seem like a mouse ready to make a knee jerk reaction to a bit of cheese. All you see and smell is the cheese and act without regard to the trap. Then again maybe you work for HP. In the end I don't see seasoned professionals jumping at the first new and shinny to come along.

Interesting how you try to undermine our views by trying to imply we work for HP which I do not. You ask what has resulted in the opinion that Apple has done with the pro user? Well where shall we start?

Mac Pro last update when was that? July/ August 2010?

Scrapping of the Xserve

The Final Cut Pro debacle which has seen many pro video editors move away from Apple either software and or Hardware wise.

Lack of expandability and flexibility in there desktop line up excluding the Mac Pro which we really don't know what its fate is.

Look at the preview video on the Apple site about Mountain Lion and you will clearly see it all about bring the iPad and iPhone experience to the Mac.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/

Look though this form at how many pro users are asking for a the Mac Pro to be kept up to date do Apple listen to their Pro user base? I have got to say it does not look like it any more.

As to your last point about mice, cheese and knee jerk reactions well if you re-read my post you will find I said I am waiting until November when I am ready to upgrade before making a decision. By that time we should know the direction Apple are taking with the Mac Pro and Mac in general. I would not call that a knee jerk reaction, just looking forward and planning for all eventualities based on the facts.

Indeed the hardware engineers have to work to squeeze everything into ever decreasing dimensions as prescribed by Ives.



You say Apple have pretty much abandoned the desktop yes I agree thats the whole problem the only machine you can expand and put a pro level graphics card etc in is the Mac Pro but thats more or less dead. I think that constitutes abandoning the Pro user unless they pull something good out of the hat this year but I would not put any money on that.



I hope so too.



I agree with you here but we have been expecting a massive refactoring for sometime now. Lets face it Apple have the money, muscle and know how to have done this before now. Maybe it will happen this year, then again...



You are right here Sony does have a Pro division shame Apple does not any more. As for not making use of photos and video well its kind of part and parcel of what I do but I think if you look at the Mountain Lion preview the focus is on the iOS experience so I think the writing is on the wall here for the future direction of the Mac here. Speaking for my self here it would be nice to have a full choice of pro graphics cards like Windows has. I think this is one area I would like to see OS X improve. My comments about Twitter etc were ment to highlight the fact that Apple now seems for the most part focused on the general consumer now and the needs of the pro user are secondary. May be its time for Apple to have division focused on the needs of the Pro user lets face it they have the resources to do that now.

One other point I found this link regarding Lion it seems to be from November last year but it sugests Lion was in 3rd place in terms of Mac OS market share. I have not yet upgrades to Lion I suppose I better as Mountain Lion will be out quite soon.

http://www.redmondpie.com/os-x-lion-...rowth-slowing/




Agree with here on this one.




Well Apple have the money and expertise to do it question is why is it taking so long? May be the answer is Apple's focus is now on iOS and the consumer. Just before Steve died was there not going to be some big announcement regarding the Mac? What happened to that? As to the ticking of boxes I think the Pro user has certain needs with you could boil down to expansion and flexibility both internal and external. It seems at times that when Apple innovates we have no choice but to fallow. If all is to be believed about the next lot of laptops there will be no optical disc. Great may be for you average punter but what about the rest of us have have a lot of data stored on DVD's? Oh thats right use an external drive but does that not make the laptop a little less portable and usable having to have an external drive to connect if you have data stored on a DVD. My point here is this might not be a problem for your average user but it seems like another limitation for a Pro user, again Apple's bias towards the consumer showing though. Lets hope we see some innovation for the Pro user this year and the desktop range.

If it didn't happen already, it wont happen now. Apple is pushing the Thunderbolt port and if another version of the Mac Pro comes up, the graphics card will have the Thunderbolt port which you don't see on other PC hardware. A possible solution would be some kind of adapter which merges the Thunderbolt signal from a port on the motherboard with the signal from the display port signal to work like the "regular" Thunderbolt as we know it but still, very unlikely and I don't know if that's possible.

Currently on the sofa with the iPad. iPhone 4 in my pocket. Apple tv connected to the 50 inch plasma. Old 2001 (?) G4 450 MHz tower in the corner. 24 inch core duo iMac upstairs.

The amount of Apple kit is starting to add up.

This iPad is cutting edge. It made me wonder what Macs would be like if apple had the same input into their laptop and desktop chips as they do the A5 CPU/quad GPu etc soc.

But surely the iMac, mini and air designs show the direction they'd go? Even the battery is glued down, apparently, in the new iPad. Ie if the battery goes kaput they'll just send you a whole new one. This sense of 'sealed unit' design is what gives them their edge or they don't wish to be all things to all men or compete with the competition on their terms. (Though some will be critical of it just as some derided the jettisoning of the floppy.)

That may partly explain while the pro evaporated up the price points since the heady G3 years.

The iPad in my hand makes me wonder where things are going. This thing is powerful for a razor thin device.

Procreate are raving about how their painting app, £2.99 for professionals, will work on the new iPad's quad core GPU. Ie their painting engine is open gs(?)2 based. As an artist I can't wait for the 1.6 release to try it. Just need a decent stylus.... Pro apps for iPad?!

Video apps? iPhoto? iWork? Powerful and simple apps without the bloat.

If we had a 'Rogue' chip next year... ...could apple intro' a 20 inch iPad? With a6 chip and a bit more ram? Dock it on an adjustable stand?

Even posting on this forum, the old graphics of the desktop era look painful to the eye compared to the iOS interface.

I'm not too worried about the finder either or drilling nestled folders at the moment either.

This feels bleeding edge compared to sitting at the iMac with a mouse. Though I do feel glad to sit down at the iMac when I do.

But I can't see Apple applying the same bleeding edge paradigm to their desktops. Maybe iOS will morph into the 21st century macs. I kinda feel this iPad is the best mac for the 'rest of us' apple has ever made. But the iPad is just at the beginning.

Makes me wonder about paying thousands for a pro when a faster mainstream model comes along 3 years later leaving you with a slow old big box. Things get faster and smaller I guess. The tech in the iPad is a bargain at £399.

This can play 1080p on 50 inch screen care of the ATV. It's star trek tech to me.

It just works.

The mac seems cutting edge on many levels but almost quaint compared to this.

I guess apple may ride the mac train until the iOS devices are ready to take over?

If they can do this for this amazing price it makes me wonder why their desktops are so overpriced. Their laptops are beautiful. I guess the airs will drag the pro lap tops screaming along with thinner designs.

...and will the desktops follow? I think the iMac and mini kinda are.

I guess it's the pro's turn for a makeover paradigm shift..?

Do apple want the consumer to tinker and and upgrade? Or just buy a new model?

If apple can hand out 45 billion to shareholders over the next 3 years surely they can give the pro one more design and a price cut?

Or will the iMac make it obselete over time? Will the iOS make the mac as we know it obsolete over time?

Could the new pro just be single core 6 and 8 core models with a powerful GPu and two hard drive bays? Similar as to what has been suggested elsewhere? Would it be like the iMac or mini and be virtually a sealed box but more powerful than a mid range or top end iMac? Could they make it much cheaper than the current pro? You cede the iMac screen for a more powerful computer priced in middle/upper tier iMac pricing?

Musingly...

Lemon Bon Bon.

Kind of what I was getting at re apple desktops. Ie if it hasn't happened now, will it ever?

Does any of it fit in with their hardware/design/money churn philosophy?

Shouldn't we be able to use most any CPU or GPu in a pro by now? Can't apple just sell us the case?

Are Apple's desktops now merely evolutionary with the pro looking ever more he odd one out and vulnerable because of it?

Lemon Bon Bon.

well, Ivy Bridge has been out a while, Macbook Pro in production with it, other companies incorperating it, iPad 3rd Gen. is cooling off, and it's TUESDAY! Let's see what happens... Come on Apple.....

It's not even April. The iPad is NOT cooling off in the slightest. Expect nothing for the next month.

I'd agree with that. 4 months before any mac news. Wow. And it will probably be the portables first...

I wonder if the new iMac will launch with the new MacBook pro?

Lemon Bon Bon.

Or is there hope for a 'quiet' sandy bridge pro update in April?

Lemon Bon Bon.

Weeks, yeah?


Likely not; desktop chips are slated for further back than laptop, and there's no sense doing it simultaneously.


Not if there's to be a case redesign.

are there rumors of a "case redesign" ? I've read "wishful thinking" but not anything solid? maybe I missed it?

Anyway it is a moot point for me. I like the one they have. I think it is beautifully perfect as far as what I have seen. If they brought one out much different I would probably buy the old model, which would be enough for me anyway. I just hate to buy something then a new one come out right afterwards. But on this point of a case redesign; like I said if it was changed much I wouldnt want it anyway and would buy the old one. Which I may go ahead and do anyway.... Although that makes me nervous thinking they would come out with a case redesign and I would love it and I would be sick and out thousands of dollars... Just trying to get a good Mac and not be disappointed later as I am treading new waters here....

Oh boy, what're we talking about here? The thread's topic, laptops, or the iMac?

Wait, I guess it doesn't matter. They're all expected to be redesigned.

The MacBooks are supposed to get thinner like the Air. I figure they'll condense the line down to four models and just call them all "MacBook", but that's me.

The iMac, I HOPE, will be dropping the optical drive. not much of a design change, sure, but it shows externally, and internally that'll be a BIG improvement for everything else.

We're also actually thinking the Mac Pro will be getting a design change, if it gets updated at all. No optical drives means it can be smaller, a little thinner, and it'll probably get its internals moved around a little. No xMac, obviously, but changed a little.


Wait, you'd buy year-and-a-half-old tech just because you don't like the new design? Why?


And that's the perfect way to go about it. Waiting and seeing.

Well if you're concerned about problems with an updated design, you can always give it a few months for consistency issues to work their way out or just skip the first generation. Intel is on kind of a weird schedule right now. It looks like Ivy Bridge E doesn't come out until Q2 of next year. I don't see any major form factor changes given how hot Sandy will be running. They won't want to deal with added complexity there. Unless I'm incorrect there (which is entirely possible), I think the Mac Pro won't change up much until more like 2014 given that Ivy would reuse the same board like last time. That's my prediction anyway.

That's true; I'd forgotten about that. Though these aren't cars we're talking about. I certainly wouldn't buy a first-gen of a car redesign, but a first-gen Apple product? In a heartbeat. First because I trust them to have made a proper product and second because I'll have AppleCare to sort out any issues that may arise.


Wait, WHAT?! Do they even want to SELL their products anymore?!

Apple notebooks do run a bit high in temperature. People have attributed this to many things. While technically within spec, sometimes it's kind of on the edge. I recall the first generation macbooks that really did overheat to the point of shutdown at times.

It is pretty weird regarding Intel isn't it? I didn't expect them to be out soon, but I didn't expect it to be pushed this far back already, meaning the real date could be even worse.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...This_Year.html

In the case of Sandy Bridge E, they supposedly encountered issues with the processor stepping and needed more time for bug fixes. Sandy Bridge E is also running quite hot. I'm not sure why it would be pushed back that far. I expected they'd try to catch up somewhat over the next couple cycles with just enough time in between to prevent a cpu generation from being eaten. I just find it weird hearing that Haswell may be out in other cpu sockets before Ivy Bridge E.

http://macdailynews.com/2012/03/20/i...y-by-year-end/

A disturbance in the force...there is.

Lemon Bon Bon.

Hmm.

Lemon Bon Bon.

Steve Jobs would make a better Palpatine than Tim Cook.


You rang?

Yes but what have we available from Intel that would have resulted in a significant update? It would be nice if Apple was more agressive with respect to GPU updates but then again when has Apple ever been serious about GPUs.

I think the time to pass judgement here is faster the Mac Pros replacement comes out. Yes I do think it will be replaced as the platform is Basicaly a relic of the 80's.

? Why, they never sold enough to justify the effort to make them. Besides when has any rational organization spent good money on a name plate for a server. They generally sit in the dark someplace far from view. I actually think Apple did Pros a favor here by getting them to look rationally at what a server is.

A bunch of noise made by an industry run by immature fools. Seriously in the industry I work in you make your tools work for you. The chances that you will have the optimal tool for anyone project is very slim. So you either learn to leverage what you have or see your business go else where.

In any event we are talking about release one of an entirely new product. A product that will just get better in the coming years.

Frankly I agree that the desktop line up is crap, I've been posting that for some time now. However that isn't just a slight against power users, it is basically a slap in the face of anybody seriously looking at a desktop Mac. So I really don't see how pro users are anything special here.

Yeah, but again you look at Apples marketing glitz yet mis what is happening with the rest of the OS. Mac OS has been making significant if maybe slow strides, considering how it has developed in the past. GPU drives are improving, sometimes haphazzardly but none the less getting better, the UNIX infrastructure has been improving and I believe is now official considered to be UNIX. Tool kits are coming along nicely and things like GCD and OpenCL are enabling much of the improvements one is seeing in Mountain Lion.

You might not want to believe me but you can see these improvements on older hardware such as my 2008 MBP. In general the OS is getting much better which benefits all users.


I suspect the Mac Pro is dead! They are likely trying to build a machine that will actually sell and at the same time support a wider array of users. I know this freaks many Pro users out but the big towers of the past are not the way of the future. It won't be more than a year to a year and a half before a rather credible power users platform will come on a single SoC with RAM and a few support chips.

I was referring more to the people looking at HP hardware as if the world of Sandy Bridge E has matured already. Personally I wouldn't even bother to look at Pro level hardware for another 4 months or more until all the platforms have delivered and proved themselves.

Sandy Bridge E and Ivy Brudge have both been delayed repeatedly. We have to acknowledge this before we become to hard on Apple this year.


Actually it is the other way around, shrinking geometries are allowing Ives to deliver machines that weren't even possible a few years ago. More importantly without these shrinking systems the performance gains everybody craves would not come.

Think about this, current GPUs have transitory counts in the billions and the CPUs aren't far behind. This is unheard of only a few years ago. More Importantly these chips run amazingly cool considering what is going on inside. So yeah I think you have things reversed here.


Well my point is they have abandoned ALL desktop users. It isn't just a Pro thing.


Believe me if I don't see anything new and innovative, on the same scale as the new AIRs I will loose some faith here also. I really see this as the last year where they will have an opportunity to save face.

I'm not sure a Pro decision could survive at Apple. But yes they need to do something,

You see this I really don't understand. I upgraded within hours after Lion came out. Never looked back! At least for me it runs all around better. The infrastructure just gets stronger.

I really don't know wjphat is up at Apple. The last thing that was significantly improved was the Mini when it got the GPU. That was only one out of three models too. The problem with the Mini is that is too much of a step backwards for me and the Pro is just impossibly priced.

So I'm hoping the whole desktop line gets trashed for a more rational lineup. Will that happen? I don't know, but I'm not going to let it hold me up. At some point even a Mini would be a major upgrade for me. It is all about the shrinking process technology.

It always amazes me that these things get spun positively for Intel while the same problems at AMD result in a public lashing. What is evempn more perplexing is that AMDs far better integrated GPUs would be ideal for many Apple hardware users.

Proof is in the pudding with respect to the new iPad. The GPU performance on this machine is just wonderful. It highlight the importance of the GPU in delivering modern software.

Not that Sandy Bridge E processors don't have a place in this world, just that they aren't critical to every need out there. The other thing here is that Ivy Bridge E processors probably don't offer a lotto justify deployment. After all most of the development effort for Ivy Bridge went into the GPU.


They will come eventually. The problem is the PC world is changing rapidly and the market for suchnhips isn't what it was.

Sandy Bridge isn't so much running hot as it has had the clock Rate increased to maximize performance. Turn up the clock and chips run hotter, so the heat really isn't unexpected for a performance product.

Intel could easily skip Ivy Bridge E in preference for the improved cores of Hazwell. Outside of the GPU Ivy Bridge doesn't offer a lot.

[QUOTEI suspect the Mac Pro is dead! They are likely trying to build a machine that will actually sell and at the same time support a wider array of users. I know this freaks many Pro users out but the big towers of the past are not the way of the future. It won't be more than a year to a year and a half before a rather credible power users platform will come on a single SoC with RAM and a few support chips.
[/QUOTE]

...

iPad G5?

Lemon Bon Bon.

Apple 'trash' their desktop line up to keep you happy? Unlikely. So keep 'hoping.' Maybe you should wait for next year's Hasswell based Mini..?

It IS all about shrinking that process tech'. Looks at the G5. Looks at the new iPad... My, how things have changed...

Lemon Bon Bon.

I'm underwhelmed by Intel's monopoly desktop position producing lethargy. Is this anything new?

AMD are equally culpable for dropping the ball. They have to compete better. They've had their chances and underdelivered. Intel pretty much smashed them with Core 2 and smashed them harder with i7.

AMD being ahead on integrated crappics is a bit whoop de doo as much as the i7's nominal speed grades.

They've both been guilty of taking ages to get where we are today. The gravity bending impact of the iPad market has caught them both napping.

I'm far more impressed with what Apple's doing with the A5x SOC in a tiny cm thin device than the dinosaurs of yesterday scrambling to keep hold of the grains of sand slipping through their former empire.

Lemon Bon Bon.

eh?

Lemon Bon Bon.

High-end Ivy Bridge desktop chips have been pushed to 2013. They don't really seem to care about getting things out in a timely manner.

The mini had similar 'death knell' rumours before Apple came out with an update. As for 'significantly improved?' Apple took a step back with Intel when it adopted integrated crappics after boasting that their PPC mini had dedicated GPUs. *Shrugs. And it was cheaper, too. Apple FINALLY offered 'quad' core on a mini. Whoop. Years after quad core on the PC was mainstream. 'Late.' Significant? In the Apple scheme of things...perhaps. :/

The iMac FINALLY has a top end machine worthy of the name. That was a significant moment after a few years of GPU side grades and process shrinks of older GPU cards and, again, it took wayyyyy too long for quad cores to hit the iMac. AND we STILL have to BTO the i7 after a few revisions. Pulease.

Upsell? Greed?

Is it anything new? Even when they had the old G3 towers at sane prices they didn't include monitors or decent gpu cards...and expected you to pay nostril ramming mark ups on RAM.

The Pro. Well. It's a disaster. There's one of eight things they probably could have done to update the Pro which didn't include waiting on an Intel processor.

Stingy components for the astro-humungous prices and crap gpus have been par the course for Apple desktops for as long as I remember since about 1997.

The differentiating factors have been OS X, sexy design and...Steve Jobs.

The Pro was good for it's time. Still a brilliant case. But it's as out of date as the Cube is now (though the latter may point to some kind of Pro compact desktop...who knows. We'd have to ask Apple...)

The iMac is the best AIO out there. But Apple cream the specs...and do outrageous upsell. I think the top end iMac is a dream machine for me. Your mileage may vary. I think it looks like a work of art on my desk. I bought mine in a sale. Good screen. Decent GPU (again, it was a top end model...but why only a decent gpu on the top end model?) and CPU. I'd tear your arm off for a 27 inch iMac with that Ati GPU with 2 gigs of vram. It has most of the power I need. But I don't need to simulate weather I guess or do week long renders.

Mini. Just put some decent specs in it. Why does Apple again...make you have to have the top end model to get discrete graphics..?

They could cut the prices by a few hundred and up the specs in my view. But they're selling loads at the current prices so what do I know? Well. They're selling loads of laptops... But that's the fashion.

Of the desktops they're selling they sell mainly iMacs. It's been that way for...uhm...since the iMac was introduced?! With Lion it now looks like a giant iPod/Phone. I can live with that.

Apple are fashion.

Just introduce a compact Pro and sell it from £995 to £1295 to £1495 to £1695. From quad to six to eight to a dual model. At prices real human beings can relate to. By the time you add an Apple monitor you're still having your ass reamed.

Desktops? Well. It's Nearing the end of March and not a single Mac. Whiff. I don't begrudge the focus on iOS and the iPad. I think Apple have been due this level of success for a long time. It's a chance, Apple's 2nd chance to 'rightfully' own the computing market...an opportunity that was stolen from them the 1st time.

Apple are projected to significantly outsell a great deal of the PC market this year with iPads. Writing. Meet Mr. Wall.

I'm pretty confident we'll get some Mac updates in the mean time. *nervous tik.

Lemon Bon Bon.

The Pro thing certainly holds some water. There's any number of things that could have been updated. Giving 45 billion to 'shareholders' is one thing. yet they can't update a Mac Pro and price it sanely?

As for the iMac and Mini, aren't they waiting on laptop, coughs*, desktop processors to ship?

Lemon Bon Bon.

But isn't it Intel's job to ship competitive cpus? Mind you...if AMD aren't forcing the issue...

Lemon Bon Bon.

Does anybody remember the days when Apple would kick start the new year with a mac or Mac Pro launch?

Those were the days. :/

Lemon Bon Bon.

Apple Inc, not Apple Computer Inc.

If it has similar functionality, people will buy it. What becomes annoying is when you're severely short on ports, short on places to plug a display, short on internal storage, etc. Personally I don't care how they look. Raw power is another matter where your needs may vary.

[QUOTE=wizard69;2077419]It always amazes me that these things get spun positively for Intel while the same problems at AMD result in a public lashing. What is evempn more perplexing is that AMDs far better integrated GPUs would be ideal for many Apple hardware users.




They're upping the core count again at the top end much like they did with Westmere. Their workstation gpus come out later most of the time, and they most likely carry higher margins. I do find this kind of weird. It could be like Westmere where they only release a limited selection under Ivy.




Even if they did that, they'd likely have some dead time anyway. It's somewhat expected for these things to come later in the year, but being a cpu generation behind the lower models is a bit weird going into the tock generations. Schedules can end up being pushed back, but everything they've released so far doesn't show them making up this time anywhere.


Violence is unnecessary. It's just a computer. The gpu in that thing is actually quite expensive. GPUs are an area where they can never be too fast for me or have too good of drivers. OpenGL lag has a distinct way of annoying me as it makes it even more difficult for me to maintain focus (and I'm already scatter-brained).

If I hadn't seen certain issues (especially long terms issues, like second year type problems) I'd like the display. I'd still want an accessible hard drive. By the way, did they ever fix the thing where thunderbolt target disk mode was horrible?