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Apple's overseas manufacturing operations offer flexibility, not just savings - report - Page 3

post #81 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Very political thread... the mixed-up picture didn't help...

Really? The mixed up picture caused you a lot of confusion? I guess any group of people can have their intelligence charted on a bell curve and there has to be somebody on each point of that curve huh?
post #82 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

How has our entitlement society created better workers?

Is the point of our culture to create the best workers, or to provide the best life?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

There are so many variables to consider when discussing standards of living and keeping manufacturing jobs here.

Automated factories are expensive; sweatshops are cheap. Nope - just one. So long as we support regimes which treat human beings as flesh robots, no place where it's necessary to treat people as people can compete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

Don't forget that when Apple manages to make a world-class product such as an iPad cheaply, millions of Americans buy it and benefit. Our standard of living goes up, even if it's not reflected in wages, per se.

Don't forget that we're one species living on a single planet. Externalizing the death camp nightmare of Apple's manufacturing to a regime that tolerates such crimes moves the problem out of sight of Americans who choose not to see, but that's all. Americans have stuff, and Chinese live in hell. Having toys built with blood, tears, despair, and each produces a net lower standard of living for human beings in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

Compare how someone in the middle class lived in the 1970s to 2012. Modern conveniences and all kinds of goods that increase our leisure time enjoyment.

We've temporarily improved our standard of living by reducing that of others. We've delighted in the monstrous imbalance we've created - we'll be less happy when the pendulum swings the other way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

Jobs is right. Those jobs that demand long hours - in addition to being monotonous and likely unfulfilling - are not the kind of jobs that are easy to fill here. They are not coming back.

Nonsense. Jobs was, among other things, a sociopath. Do you think the 1% in America are unaware of China's shining example? Go talk to any Walmart employee and discover what's in store for the masses when the very few own the many.
post #83 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

Rumors about the wonders of automated manufacturing are what corporations who outsource their labor to wrecked economies and despotic regimes circulate to help us assuage our collective guilt. The quick answer to your question is that anything manufactured in China is made entirely by hand under conditions that make American prisons look like exclusive resorts.

American prisons look like exclusive resorts compared to a lot of places - both in America and elsewhere. That's part of the problem.
post #84 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

We've temporarily improved our standard of living by reducing that of others. We've delighted in the monstrous imbalance we've created - we'll be less happy when the pendulum swings the other way.

Whose standard was decreased? These workers are living lives far better than they were before they applied for and received these jobs, as are their families. At some point they will be undercut by the next economic miracle at which point China will be forced to invest more heavily in education and move up the economic ladder, just as the USA (and every other advanced economy in the world) did decades ago.
post #85 of 148
Argue though we may about Apple's overseas production -- which I consider scandalous, one more reason to look elsewhere (besides increasingly dumbed down, lowest-common-denominator products) -- no one can deny that an electronic consumable is just material, while a human life is precious. This inequality is forgotten in all the abstract debate about economics. When you assert that a life means something (as Jobs' life did, though what is for historians to debate), then the framework for the argumentation changes. There is no justification for wage slavery. Or for abandoning one's homeland to make a buck overseas. Or for, instead of investing more of the resulting profits to raise the QoL overseas and thereby wages, equalizing things, simply handing it out as CEO and shareholder rewards.

What is happening at Apple? Has it lost its collective mind? It is becoming another GE, ExxonBobil, Boeing, Halliburton, Goldman Sachs? I am so so sorry that among its many accomplishments, Apple could not see how to build an honestly humanistic company. Jobs doesn't get to do this one over. But maybe Apple still can...though its time is fast waning.
post #86 of 148
Absurd reasoning. Instead of going from bad to awful, they could have gone from bad to good. Is that too difficult to comprehend?
post #87 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Whose standard was decreased? These workers are living lives far better than they were before they applied for and received these jobs, as are their families. At some point they will be undercut by the next economic miracle at which point China will be forced to invest more heavily in education and move up the economic ladder, just as the USA (and every other advanced economy in the world) did decades ago.

Absurd reasoning. Instead of going from bad to awful, the workers' standard of life could have gone from bad to good. Is that too difficult to comprehend?
post #88 of 148
Quote:
Betsey Stevenson, the Labor Department's chief economist until last year, said U.S. companies used to prioritize American workers even when it meant higher costs. Thats disappeared," she said. "Profits and efficiency have trumped generosity.

Wow. The government's best solution to the loss of American jobs is to appeal to corporate "generosity." I didn't realize the free market economy was based on pursuit of altruistic concepts like "generosity." There are economic systems based on altruism, but they are not called capitalism.

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post #89 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberoid View Post


What is happening at Apple? Has it lost its collective mind? It is becoming another GE, ExxonBobil, Boeing, Halliburton, Goldman Sachs? I am so so sorry that among its many accomplishments, Apple could not see how to build an honestly humanistic company. Jobs doesn't get to do this one over. But maybe Apple still can...though its time is fast waning.

What do you mean "becoming"? Apple is no different from any other huge company. They exist to provide profits to Wall Street.

Business is business. Apple is not a charity. Apple does not exist to make the world a better place. If they did not provide the profits, the owners would sell their stock and invest elsewhere.

Apple is owned overwhelmingly by the big money guys at places like Goldman Sachs and hedge funds. And those guys don't give a shit about some poor Chinese manual laborer - no more than they give a shit about you or me.

Jobs answered to them. The current CEO answers to them. Everything else is just a means to an end. If Apple could make more money by being humanistic, it would do so in a heartbeat. But as of now, Apple does what it takes to make as much profit as possible. And Apple will ALWAYS do whatever it takes to make as much profit as possible.
post #90 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberoid View Post

Absurd reasoning. Instead of going from bad to awful, the workers' standard of life could have gone from bad to good. Is that too difficult to comprehend?

Yes, it could have, as it could have gone from bad to AMAAAAZING too! But whose job is that? Have you sent thousands of dollars to poor families in Africa? No? A company's job is to make products and sell them. The magic of capitalism means that everyone trying to individually help themselves ends up helping raise all boats. But giving hand-outs is not Apple's job.

Stop saying absurd, you clearly don't know what that word means.

The workers' lives went from bad to middle class. That's pretty amazing.
post #91 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

What do you mean "becoming"? Apple is no different from any other huge company. They exist to provide profits to Wall Street.

Business is business. Apple is not a charity. Apple does not exist to make the world a better place. If they did not provide the profits, the owners would sell their stock and invest elsewhere.

Apple is owned overwhelmingly by the big money guys at places like Goldman Sachs and hedge funds.

They exist to provide profits to their owners, where ever they live. Many people on this board are those owners. Do you consider yourself "wall street"?

Also, Apple is not "overwhelmingly" held by hedge funds and GS. They are overwhelmingly held by individuals. "Institutional" ownership is 575 million out of 932 million shares. But if you think those shares are held by hedge funds, then you don't understand what hedge funds (or Goldman) do. 32 million of those 575 are held by Vangard. Which means held by individuals who buy the index funds they create. The same goes for most of the next 200,000,000 shares - they are held by companies who then sell index funds to individuals. So that 62% "institutional" ownership does not mean that 62% are held by some evil hedge fund somewhere.
post #92 of 148
It would be interesting to know how many of people in this thread who are advocating solutions...

1) have ever hired, fired or laid-off an employee

2) have ever owned a company that had to compete in the free market

3) have ever had to choose between employee benefits and survival of their company
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post #93 of 148
I bet the majority of those Chinese workers would fight to keep their jobs. Their standard of living is increasing, thanks to Apple.

The alternative is a much lower standard of living, perhaps starving while toiling endlessly on some farm. People in this country with lower incomes rejoice at the affordable products and services offered at Wal-Mart.

Be careful to keep in mind what the alternative is. Capitalism raises all boats. It's the only economic system ever devised that spreads so much wealth around, raising standards of living and creating ever more opportunity for so many people. Apple is the epitome of capitalism. Tremendous numbers of people have benefited from their success. That goes for consumers, employees and investors.

Capitalism has its faults - most often caused by excessive govt. intervention - but on the whole, I haven't seen anything better.

As another excellent example: South Korea embraced capitalism and experienced an economic miracle. Their communist neighbor to the North has yet to join the 21st century and the entire country suffers.
post #94 of 148
The Boston Group posted a research report yesterday that identified the cost delta between manufacturing in the USA and China. Increases in fuel and international shipping plus the rise in Chinese labor rates coupled with the greater productivity of US workers has brought the cost differential in the past year to about 10% in favor of China. The cost Delta used to be over 25%. That back then made it an automatic build in China.

Boston group said that by 2015 they expected cost to be at parity to manufacture in China and USA. They also ran some comparisons between total manufacturing volume inside the US and total manufacturing volume in China (not just the export volume).

Interesting read. As one of the earlier poster said "reality is somewhere in between the extremes of perceptions"
post #95 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post


Very political thread... the mixed-up picture didn't help...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Really? The mixed up picture caused you a lot of confusion?

The mixed up picture did not help to make the discussion less political, even though it provided an alternative topic.


That's what I meant, obviously.

Quote:
I guess any group of people can have their intelligence charted on a bell curve and there has to be somebody on each point of that curve huh?

I guess you're right.
post #96 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberoid View Post

Argue though we may about Apple's overseas production -- which I consider scandalous, one more reason to look elsewhere (besides increasingly dumbed down, lowest-common-denominator products) -- no one can deny that an electronic consumable is just material, while a human life is precious. This inequality is forgotten in all the abstract debate about economics. When you assert that a life means something (as Jobs' life did, though what is for historians to debate), then the framework for the argumentation changes. There is no justification for wage slavery. Or for abandoning one's homeland to make a buck overseas. Or for, instead of investing more of the resulting profits to raise the QoL overseas and thereby wages, equalizing things, simply handing it out as CEO and shareholder rewards.

I hear you, but there are practical issues at hand here, and I think the customer base is just as guilty.

For example, Mac Pros were made in the US. Instead of seeing that, and understanding what the machine is, people complained about the price.

If price is your main determinant, and the customer base doesn't care about the human cost or understand the consequences, why should Apple take the financial hit on an issue the consumer market doesn't care about?
post #97 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

What do you mean "becoming"? Apple is no different from any other huge company. They exist to provide profits to Wall Street.

Absolutely false. Apple exists to maximize value for SHAREHOLDERS. Of which essentially none live on Wall Street.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Business is business. Apple is not a charity. Apple does not exist to make the world a better place. If they did not provide the profits, the owners would sell their stock and invest elsewhere.

Apple is owned overwhelmingly by the big money guys at places like Goldman Sachs and hedge funds. And those guys don't give a shit about some poor Chinese manual laborer - no more than they give a shit about you or me.

Jobs answered to them. The current CEO answers to them. Everything else is just a means to an end. If Apple could make more money by being humanistic, it would do so in a heartbeat. But as of now, Apple does what it takes to make as much profit as possible. And Apple will ALWAYS do whatever it takes to make as much profit as possible.

Actually, Apple's job is to maximize shareholder return - which will, in some cases, require them to do things that decrease current profits (like investing in new technologies).

But your rant is sorely misguided. The 'big money guys' do not own Apple shares. They are nothing more than middlemen who hold Apple shares for THEIR shareholders. Ultimately, Apple shares are owned either directly or indirectly by individual investors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Whose standard was decreased? These workers are living lives far better than they were before they applied for and received these jobs, as are their families. At some point they will be undercut by the next economic miracle at which point China will be forced to invest more heavily in education and move up the economic ladder, just as the USA (and every other advanced economy in the world) did decades ago.

That's what no one in this debate seems to get. The Chinese workers are FAR better off when companies like Apple invest there. Already, wages and working conditions are improving in China, but even when Apple started producing there, it was a voluntary exchange. I'm not aware of a single worker every being forced to work in a Foxconn plant at gunpoint. They were offered a job and gladly accepted it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBRSTREETG View Post

The average Foxconn worker can't even afford an iPhone or an iPad. People in the US who can't even afford the data plan for an iPhone have them. There is a reason why manufacturing is done in China. It can be done cheaper at wages and rates that American workers are unwilling to accept.

The average person working for Boeing can't afford a 747, either. Does that mean that Boeing should not be able to offer them a job?

The Chinese workers at Foxconn and other Apple contractors are there because they CHOSE to be there. The job was better than anything else they could get. So why is Apple evil for improving their standard of living and helping to feed millions of families?
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post #98 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Absolutely false. Apple exists to maximize value for SHAREHOLDERS. Of which essentially none live on Wall Street.


Only a fool would think that the reference was to residential addresses. And you are no fool.

Apple is 70% owned by institutional investors. "Wall Street" is a euphemism for (among other things) big institutional investors. But you knew that.

Quote:
Top Institutional Holders

FMR LLC\t51,500,993\t
VANGUARD GROUP, INC. (THE)\t36,569,629\t
STATE STREET CORPORATION\t34,363,487\t
PRICE (T.ROWE) ASSOCIATES INC\t23,468,691\t
BlackRock Institutional Trust Company, N.A.\t23,118,847\t
Capital World Investors\t15,287,940\t
Capital Research Global Investors\t13,523,300\t
Invesco Ltd.\t12,966,344\t
JP MORGAN CHASE & COMPANY\t12,283,377\t
NORTHERN TRUST CORPORATION\t12,049,958\t

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Actually, Apple's job is to maximize shareholder return - which will, in some cases, require them to do things that decrease current profits (like investing in new technologies).

Only a fool would think that the reference was to short-term profits. And you are no fool.

Apple's mission is to provide the maximum total profits to its owners, which are 70% Wall Street institutional investors. But you knew that.
post #99 of 148
People here throw the word 'free-market' around like there's actually one here. It's pretty sad when people have been brainwashed to think that whenever there's a market, there's a free market. If you want free market, 1st you need private property rights, that's been proven by economists since the 1930s. But in China, people don't even own themselves as private properties, they can't speak freely, they can go choose their job freely, they can't interact with others freely, it's not a free labor market at all. Time to wake up folks.
post #100 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever View Post

People here throw the word 'free-market' around like there's actually one here. It's pretty sad when people have been brainwashed to think that whenever there's a market, there's a free market. If you want free market, 1st you need private property rights, that's been proven by economists since the 1930s. But in China, people don't even own themselves as private properties, they can't speak freely, they can go choose their job freely, they can't interact with others freely, it's not a free labor market at all. Time to wake up folks.

Err... Last I looked Apple was a US corporation...
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post #101 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Err... Last I looked Apple was a US corporation...

I don't know what it means to say Apple, or any corporation, is a US corporation. They seem to be "persons", according the Supreme Court, they don't have passports, but they can vote with their money since Citizens United. Doesn't that mean they are citizens? But, since US corporations can be owned and controlled by non-citizens, what does it mean to be a US Corporation?

Let's think about other US corporations? Say Cisco. Their headquarters are in Ireland. Of course, the office there is an empty shell, but they get to shield their income from the US by making believe they are an Irish Corporation.
post #102 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

I don't know what it means to say Apple, or any corporation, is a US corporation. They seem to be "persons", according the Supreme Court, they don't have passports, but they can vote with their money since Citizens United. Doesn't that mean they are citizens? But, since US corporations can be owned and controlled by non-citizens, what does it mean to be a US Corporation?

Let's think about other US corporations? Say Cisco. Their headquarters are in Ireland. Of course, the office there is an empty shell, but they get to shield their income from the US by making believe they are an Irish Corporation.

It means that Apple was incorporated in the US, is governed by US laws and regulations and operates in the free market economy of the US...
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post #103 of 148
If production in China is so advantageous why is Foxconn building an iPad factory in Brazil? Does Brazil also have some major manufacturing advantage over the US?
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post #104 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Really? The mixed up picture caused you a lot of confusion? I guess any group of people can have their intelligence charted on a bell curve and there has to be somebody on each point of that curve huh?

Where would someone who gets a kick out of dissing someone's IQ for silly reasons be on such a curve, huh?
post #105 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobble gobble View Post

If production in China is so advantageous why is Foxconn building an iPad factory in Brazil? Does Brazil also have some major manufacturing advantage over the US?

I suspect that the Brazil move is underwritten and/or encouraged by Apple to bypass the high tariffs and increase sales in that country. A by-product is a second mfg source and an uplifting effect on the labor market there... Something Apple and Foxconn could benefit from in the future.
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post #106 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobble gobble View Post

If production in China is so advantageous why is Foxconn building an iPad factory in Brazil? Does Brazil also have some major manufacturing advantage over the US?

Advantages:

- Brazil government is heavily subsidizing factory project
- Apple products will no longer be charged the rather high import duty currently charged
- Foxconn wants to diversify geographically because Chinese labor will not stay cheap forever.

Get it? Perhaps reconsider your sarcastic tone?
post #107 of 148
Foxconn is building a factory in Brazil because of an import tariff of something like 40% in Brazil effectivley doubling the cost of technology to Brazilian consumers. It is a protectionism type tariff.
post #108 of 148
Apple should be required to make all the products it sells in the USA in the USA. And the costs of those goods have to match its USA expenses. US consumers should not benefit from lower costs of labor in other countries. So if a USA iPad2 costs $899 to make for a 16GB wi-fi model because of higher costs here, that is what US Apple customers must pay. This also means that US customers only get product from the US inventory. If that means that you have to wait months for a new phone, instead of maybe a couple weeks, too bad. If you have to wait a year for a new MacBook Air because the USA plants are slow, too bad. If you plan to camp out to get the iPad3 in the USA, you probably should go get in line in front of your Apple store right now. Really, the best thing would be to let the Obama administration tell Apple where to make all of its products, who they will be allowed to sell them to, and what will be the price they are allowed to sell them at. This will benefit all comrades in our country.
post #109 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by msimpson View Post

Apple should be required to make all the products it sells in the USA in the USA.

Brazil does that, I think. Their prices are ludicrous.

Quote:
If that means that you have to wait months for a new phone, instead of maybe a couple weeks, too bad.



Quote:
If you have to wait a year for a new MacBook Air because the USA plants are slow, too bad.



Quote:
Really, the best thing would be to let the Obama administration tell Apple where to make all of its products, who they will be allowed to sell them to, and what will be the price they are allowed to sell them at. This will benefit all comrades in our country.

Let's drop the political stuff.

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post #110 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Seriously there are good reasons to wake somebody in the middle of the night, sticking screens on iPhones isn't one of them. I smell a workers revolt coming to China.

They are right about one thing though, it would be very hard to find Americans willing to work with those sorts of expectations. Who would want to be packed in a dorm just to have a job.

See, you made Apple's point in one.
post #111 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by msimpson View Post

Apple should be required to make all the products it sells in the USA in the USA. And the costs of those goods have to match its USA expenses. US consumers should not benefit from lower costs of labor in other countries. So if a USA iPad2 costs $899 to make for a 16GB wi-fi model because of higher costs here, that is what US Apple customers must pay. This also means that US customers only get product from the US inventory. If that means that you have to wait months for a new phone, instead of maybe a couple weeks, too bad. If you have to wait a year for a new MacBook Air because the USA plants are slow, too bad. If you plan to camp out to get the iPad3 in the USA, you probably should go get in line in front of your Apple store right now. Really, the best thing would be to let the Obama administration tell Apple where to make all of its products, who they will be allowed to sell them to, and what will be the price they are allowed to sell them at. This will benefit all comrades in our country.

1) At least then Obama would be the socialist he's accused of being.

2) So unless you think Apple can get Qualcomm, Skyworks, Infineon, Broadcom, LG, Toshiba, Samsung, Cirrus, Texas Instruments, Sony, and undoubtedly many, many more to product all their products in the US then what you say is impossible since the manufacturing of the whole is comprised of components that are owned by other companies and mostly manufactured outside the US then shipped to factories to be included in Apple's products. Then you have an issue with the profits still going to foreign companies, including licenses for technologies Apple doesn't own, which makes the suggestion even more ridiculous.

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post #112 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

When someone thinks that solving America's problems is more important than caring about problems all around the world, ignoring the problems of Chinese workers who might become equally as unemployed, for instance, or the benefits Apple has given to those people who are generally worse off than the residents of Flint, Michigan, then I think there has been a lapse of moral judgment. If you want to talk about patriotism, go right ahead. If you want to talk about morality, however, I think you're missing something.

It is not Apple's problem to solve the world's problems, China's problems, or even America's problems. They are in business to make money and provide products that customers want and they have decided to do it in as environmentally friendly a way as they currently can.

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post #113 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

The last factory manufacturing metal "silverware" in the US, closed it's doors last year. And we don't have any manufacturers of clothing or material in the US.

My New Balance shoes came with a thing on them saying they manufactured/assembled 25% of their shoes in the US
post #114 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I've said this many times before: these jobs are not coming back to the US.

Its not just about bulding a plant and finding some workers (both if which will take ages in the US). We lack the component supply chain, the training facilities, the worker discipline, the supervisory capabilities, the quality mentality, and hunger for achievement (that we once had).

The next phase in manufacturing has already arrived, even though it is very early in it's development. It's called 3-D printing, which will one day be true nano-fabrication. If we are lucky, we will get in on the ground floor of the next wave and there will be whole new industries that rise. With nano-fabrication, it will not take a plant of 30,000 workers to create amazing devices, it will take one machine (or maybe two or three), a few support personnel (or possibly the assistance of robots in the future) and customers for whatever can be created using the process. At some point, it may even be possible to "print" a car, house, or whatever can be imagined, a la the Star Trek replicator, but I think that may be several hundred years off.

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post #115 of 148
Totally unrelated: Anyone else heard RIM has a new CEO?
post #116 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I've said this many times before: these jobs are not coming back to the US.

Its not just about bulding a plant and finding some workers (both if which will take ages in the US). We lack the component supply chain, the training facilities, the worker discipline, the supervisory capabilities, the quality mentality, and hunger for achievement (that we once had).

And most importantly, Apple would lack the extreme profit margins that we all have grown to love and protect. God forbid that margins be affected, Apple is barely making due as it is.
post #117 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Totally unrelated: Anyone else heard RIM has a new CEO?

Ah, just one this time?

They must be hit pretty hard to downsize like that.

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post #118 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Only a fool would think that the reference was to residential addresses. And you are no fool.

Apple is 70% owned by institutional investors. "Wall Street" is a euphemism for (among other things) big institutional investors. But you knew that.

Only a fool would think that the reference was to short-term profits. And you are no fool.

Apple's mission is to provide the maximum total profits to its owners, which are 70% Wall Street institutional investors. But you knew that.

It's not often that you see someone as eager as you seem to be to prove that they don't know what they're talking about.

What do you think it means to say that institutional investors own 70% of Apple? It means that they are holding the shares for other investors. They may have index funds or managed funds, but the shares of those funds are owned by individual investors.

Ultimately, virtually ALL stock (at least in the U.S.) is owned for the benefit of individual investors.
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post #119 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

We've temporarily improved our standard of living by reducing that of others.

Bullshit. Bull. Shit. If anyone thinks the manufacturing business in Asia has REDUCED anyone's standard of living in Asia, they are completely ignorant of the facts.
post #120 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberoid View Post

Argue though we may about Apple's overseas production -- which I consider scandalous, one more reason to look elsewhere...

Again, ignorance abounds. Apple, in comparison to EVERY OTHER COMPANY ON THE PLANET has acted in a responsible, humanitarian manner to improve the situation for overseas workers. I challenge you to name one company that has done more. I challenge you to name one company that releases annual audit reports and shows that poor conditions have been addressed and corrected.

By look elsewhere, I guess you mean on another planet.
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  • Apple's overseas manufacturing operations offer flexibility, not just savings - report
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