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Apple execs are 'actively discussing' what to do with nearly $100B cash hoard - Page 2

post #41 of 119
1/24/12 at 5:10pm
Buy or build robots to automate iPhone/iPad assembly lines and outsource Chinese workers.
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post #42 of 119
1/24/12 at 5:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

since it doeans't make much sense to bring it into the USA and buying HTC or Samsung - thats stupid stupid and would not be allowed, the next best thing might be to spend some of it buying spectrum. Getting the iPad out from under carriers around the world and creating an Apple network for their devices. I'd start with the UK. Also buy up content for the Apple TV and Apple HDTV. Trouble is a lot of this content is owned by US companies. Sony has a lot of it though.

Also going after rights to soccer, sport and so on would really add to the allure of iOS and put pressure on Netflix, Hulu etc as well

Imagine Apple having the exclusive rights to most of NBA, Golf, The Masters, World Tennis Grand slam, English soccer, Formula One. The list is endless and thats mainly the English market, what about South America and Asia. Most of these wouldn't cost more than couple of billion each for multi year deals and they could make money back by selling through iTunes.

I think they will buy (or do a cash deal with) a provider like Direct TV. Like they did with AT&T for the iPhone. Apple will make the new iTV the standard for one provider, with lots of new services and ease of use. And acquire lots of content deals in the bargain.

Start with one provider and then expand. Sell Direct TV and move on to another. Today Direct TV has a market cap of $31B, and Apple could finance a good portion of the purchase price; it would probably take about 10% of their cash to get this rolling. Direct TV's PE is about 14, so Apple would be earning a lot more than they are currently with their cash holdings.

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post #43 of 119
1/24/12 at 5:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdub View Post

Ummm... move jobs back to the US and build the iPhone here?

The fact that they employ Sinclair Jungle-esque slave labor camps in China sickens me.

As an American, I would love this. But Apple's CEO and board isn't looking at the interests of Americans- it's in the interest of the shareholders. It's a company- that's how it works. You can always not invest or not support their products- that's all we can do. I like their products too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

No...I don't think that's correct. I think you get to deduct the taxes that you paid overseas when you bring the money home. Any tax experts here?

They do. They would be in the 35% tax bracket in the US. So if they paid 17% tax in country X, they would only pay 18% (for easy math) at home as their previous 17% is deducted. So they will pay no more than 35% for having the money in the US. But a previous poster was right when he said why bring it back- they have 34 billion in the US now and they aren't doing anything with it.

(2) 2010 27" iMac i7, 2012 15" Retina MacBook Pro i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad 4, iPad Mini, (2) iPhone 5, iPod Touch 5, iPod Nano 7
Time Capsule 4, Airport Extreme 5, (3) Apple TV 3

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(2) 2010 27" iMac i7, 2012 15" Retina MacBook Pro i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad 4, iPad Mini, (2) iPhone 5, iPod Touch 5, iPod Nano 7
Time Capsule 4, Airport Extreme 5, (3) Apple TV 3

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post #44 of 119
1/24/12 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdub View Post

Ummm... move jobs back to the US and build the iPhone here?

The fact that they employ Sinclair Jungle-esque slave labor camps in China sickens me.

Yes, that would be nice. Unfortunately not logistically feasible. The production lines needed to produce 411,000 iPhones a day last quarter to keep up with demand. Where would you build such a facility? We're would you get the production workers, the engineers, and everyone else to do this. Yes in time, maybe in 10 years you could move this operation here. Then you would have all the delays due to environmental studies, union activities, U.S government mucking about, not to mention all the politicians fighting for the chance to land a gold mine like this in their state. Maybe 20 years.

What Apple could do is set up a smaller operation to make U.S. made products available to those willing to pay more for the distinction. It would be interesting to see how many Americans would actually speak their position with their wallets.
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post #45 of 119
1/24/12 at 5:23pm
try to win another $20 million by buying a million lottery tickets.
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post #46 of 119
1/24/12 at 5:32pm
How about they give it all to the big banks. They have fallen on hard times as of late. There senior managers have not been very creative lately in figuring out how to get more of their customers. I really do feel bad for them. Come on Tim step up and do the right thing here.

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post #47 of 119
1/24/12 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

Yes, that would be nice. Unfortunately not logistically feasible. The production lines needed to produce 411,000 iPhones a day last quarter to keep up with demand. Where would you build such a facility? We're would you get the production workers, the engineers, and everyone else to do this. Yes in time, maybe in 10 years you could move this operation here. Then you would have all the delays due to environmental studies, union activities, U.S government mucking about, not to mention all the politicians fighting for the chance to land a gold mine like this in their state. Maybe 20 years.

What Apple could do is set up a smaller operation to make U.S. made products available to those willing to pay more for the distinction. It would be interesting to see how many Americans would actually speak their position with their wallets.

With 97 Billion in the bank and 13 billion in profit this is easy.

The workers exist here in the states. The only reason people say they don't is that they'd rather use cheap slave labor and they're trying to rationalize it.

If they built the factory here they'd have to turn people away the demand to work there would be so high,

"If you build it they will come."
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post #48 of 119
1/24/12 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

Yes, that would be nice. Unfortunately not logistically feasible. The production lines needed to produce 411,000 iPhones a day last quarter to keep up with demand. Where would you build such a facility? We're would you get the production workers, the engineers, and everyone else to do this. Yes in time, maybe in 10 years you could move this operation here. Then you would have all the delays due to environmental studies, union activities, U.S government mucking about, not to mention all the politicians fighting for the chance to land a gold mine like this in their state. Maybe 20 years.

What Apple could do is set up a smaller operation to make U.S. made products available to those willing to pay more for the distinction. It would be interesting to see how many Americans would actually speak their position with their wallets.

It was recently estimated that manufacturing the iPhone in the USA would cost $46 more than doing it in China. With gross margins of 45% on a $600 device (about $260 gross profit on each 16G phone), that would be affordable for Apple.

Rather than us paying $246 for a 16G iPhone, perhaps Apple could suffer a smaller profit, like only 30%, which would exceed every other electronics company? After all, if little ole Brazil can insist (successfully) that Apple manufacture iPhones and iPads there, why not the USA? Because we don't care if the 99% have good jobs, that's why.

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post #49 of 119
1/24/12 at 5:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOROM View Post

It was recently estimated that manufacturing the iPhone in the USA would cost $46 more than doing it in China. With gross margins of 45% on a $600 device (about $260 gross profit on each 16G phone), that would be affordable for Apple.

Rather than us paying $246 for a 16G iPhone, perhaps Apple could suffer a smaller profit, like only 30%, which would exceed every other electronics company? After all, if little ole Brazil can insist (successfully) that Apple manufacture iPhones and iPads there, why not the USA? Because we don't care if the 99% have good jobs, that's why.

Amen.
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post #50 of 119
1/24/12 at 5:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

How about they give it all to the big banks. They have fallen on hard times as of late. There senior managers have not been very creative lately in figuring out how to get more of their customers. I really do feel bad for them. Come on Tim step up and do the right thing here.


With their cash now, they could buy Citibank outright. Not that they should!

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post #51 of 119
1/24/12 at 6:07pm
They do have a ton of cash and one thing is for sure...they have enough business sense that they aren't going to give away stuff for free as much as we would like them to.

For example, they could easily give the latest Mac operating system for free. I personally would like to see them do this to decrease the segmentation in the market. It is honestly a support nightmare...they could resolve it by giving Leopard away for free so that PowerPC users can be at the latest available, and Lion for free.

At least with iOS 5 they made that a free update so there will be relatively minor segmentation except with those older devices that they dropped support for.

I am of course disappointed that with all of this money they can't justify the cost of keeping Rosetta in Lion for PowerPC compatibility, or even making iBooks Author work with Snow Leopard. Apple lost a lot of my respect with those moves. I use that info to remind myself that Apple is just a corporation that doesn't have my best interests in mind.
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post #52 of 119
1/24/12 at 6:08pm
Pay a dividend.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #53 of 119
1/24/12 at 6:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenclaw View Post

It is honestly a support nightmare...they could resolve it by giving Leopard away for free so that PowerPC users can be at the latest available, and Lion for free.

Then they'd have to give away Snow Leopard for free and maintain crap telling people that they can't get Lion, can't get Snow Leopard, etc. No.

Quote:
I am of course disappointed that with all of this money they can't justify the cost of keeping Rosetta in Lion for PowerPC compatibility,

It's eight years old. Move on.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #54 of 119
1/24/12 at 6:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

Yes, that would be nice. Unfortunately not logistically feasible. The production lines needed to produce 411,000 iPhones a day last quarter to keep up with demand. Where would you build such a facility? We're would you get the production workers, the engineers, and everyone else to do this. Yes in time, maybe in 10 years you could move this operation here. Then you would have all the delays due to environmental studies, union activities, U.S government mucking about, not to mention all the politicians fighting for the chance to land a gold mine like this in their state. Maybe 20 years.

What Apple could do is set up a smaller operation to make U.S. made products available to those willing to pay more for the distinction. It would be interesting to see how many Americans would actually speak their position with their wallets.

Where would you build such a facility? Texas

We're would you get the production workers, the engineers, and everyone else to do this. With 18% unemployment (including discouraged workers) which equals millions of Americans, I don't think that woudl be much of a problem.

Then you would have all the delays due to environmental studies, union activities, U.S government mucking about, If Samsung can build a $5B fab in Texas for the A5 and A6 in less than a year, I don't think this will be a problem.

You are just one of the "negos" (as I used to say in grade school). America has the first or second largest manufacturing sector in the world (depending upon who's numbers you are using). The hurdles here are comparable (but NOT the same) as in any other country. Look at the government corruption, roadblocking and graft in China. They just finally approved the iPhone 4S, after months of delay!

We could do it within a blink of the eye.

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post #55 of 119
1/24/12 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by franktinsley View Post

1. Save up all the money.
2. Buy Earth.
3. Start Federation of Planets.

That might explain why everyone uses tablets in the 24th Century.

"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #56 of 119
1/24/12 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulchsieh View Post

Seriously, Apple should buy RIM so that it can enter Enterprise market. ......
RIM is very cheap now.

RIMM is going to be a lot less expensive in a year or so. Or for that matter maybe tomorrow.
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post #57 of 119
1/24/12 at 6:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOROM View Post

I agree and disagree. I've listened to the last few of these and today there seemed to be a lot more energy and emphasis on the use of Apple's cash "being actively discussed." Listen to the tone of voice - I heard excitement in Tim's voice when talking about (I think specifically) aquisitions. Do others agree?

Absolutely.

Apple wants to do something with the cash. I'm guessing dividends because the executive team doesn't want to be a mega-corp being in all kinds of businesses. They want to be focused with a small set of core businesses related to each other and integrated in a meaning way.

My guess is the only thing holding this up is favorable repatriation terms. Look for an announcement in Obama's state of the union speech tonight. No mention of anything along these lines may mean Apple will sit on the cash for a while or spend it abroad.
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post #58 of 119
1/24/12 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

I hope Apple doesn't feel the need to spend their cash or give it to shareholders. Apple could be struggling financially 10-20 years from now. Or maybe not. You never know what the future holds.

Dividends! Dividends!
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post #59 of 119
1/24/12 at 6:40pm
Buy Saab!
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post #60 of 119
1/24/12 at 6:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by applecider View Post

RIMM is going to be a lot less expensive in a year or so. Or for that matter maybe tomorrow.

Tomorrow Heins is going to announce that, in light of Apple's quarterly earnings report, Research in Motion is closing up shop and giving the money back to the shareholders.
We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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post #61 of 119
1/24/12 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

On the tax issue, it rather dents the argument that allowing a tax holiday to allow them to repatriate money held offshore so they could spend it in the US, when Apple have ~$34bn in the US that they aren't doing anything with.

I say they should give a large chunk of it to their employees. Money going into the hand of people who will spend it (as opposed to giving amounts to execs that can't possibly spend it all) would help the economy.

its the shareholders money
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post #62 of 119
1/24/12 at 7:08pm
Build a Death Star!
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post #63 of 119
1/24/12 at 7:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Buy Dell. Shut it down. Give the money back to the shareholders.

I want to buy the Dell quote... then shut it down.

That and "ANALyst" or any dirivitave. Can't stand either in tech forums.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh View Post

both should do the right thing, two wrongs never make a right [sorry for the punctuation, my wireless keyboard stopped working and i am having to use the on-screen keyboard]

Apple is doing th leak thing. Why you think it's not right for Apple to keep money in countries in which in made the money is something you'll have to explain.


Quote:
Originally Posted by franktinsley View Post

1. Save up all the money.
2. Buy Earth.
3. Start Federation of Planets.

Sounds like a plan.


Quote:
Originally Posted by paulchsieh View Post

Seriously, Apple should buy RIM so that it can enter Enterprise market. RIM is valuable because of its private eMail exchange network and the security it provides.

Apple should launch an Enterprise Sales Division - selling business management solution using the same hardware - iPad, iPhone, and Mac.

RIM is very cheap now.

Apple's iPhone is popular in the enterprise. It's what brought down RiM's position. And there is nothing RiM has that Apple needs? Business contacts? BES server? No!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

That might explain why everyone uses tablets in the 24th Century.


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post #64 of 119
1/24/12 at 7:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOROM View Post

I think they will buy (or do a cash deal with) a provider like Direct TV. Like they did with AT&T for the iPhone. Apple will make the new iTV the standard for one provider, with lots of new services and ease of use. And acquire lots of content deals in the bargain.

Start with one provider and then expand. Sell Direct TV and move on to another. Today Direct TV has a market cap of $31B, and Apple could finance a good portion of the purchase price; it would probably take about 10% of their cash to get this rolling. Direct TV's PE is about 14, so Apple would be earning a lot more than they are currently with their cash holdings.

Yeah I hadn't thought about Direct TV. Don't they own Echostar now, not sure it may be Echostar that own Hughes, Another candidate may be L3 or Akamie , what about Dish?
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post #65 of 119
1/24/12 at 8:29pm
Whatever Apple decides to do with the cash, I hope they throw in a 4-for-1 stock split for good measure.
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post #66 of 119
1/24/12 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh View Post

how about bringing it home and paying their taxes

Why? Apple as a business does what it must to survive... and it's all legal. And paying "more taxes" doesn't cut it anymore. The problem with government is spending.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #67 of 119
1/24/12 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by k2director View Post

Whatever Apple decides to do with the cash, I hope they throw in a 4-for-1 stock split for good measure.

Nah. I'm fine with no stock split, no dividends.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #68 of 119
1/24/12 at 9:46pm
I bet Apple is making sure they can fund a scenario where they are 40-50% of all smartphones and 80%+ of the tablet market 10 years from now on a worldwide unit basis. The volumes in 10 years at these unit share levels are going to be staggering.

It will require tremendous investment in logistics, supply chain, mfg capacity, new stores, etc.. unlike anything any company has ever done. They need to be prepared that they are, effectively, an industry onto themselves. I think this must be the highest priority

That said, the cash is growing far faster then they have been able to deploy it thus far. And the growth is accelerating. I think a large stock buyback and/or dividend is very likely in 2012.

Note a 3% dividend at $500 share price would cost about $14 billion a year. Well below the $50 to $60 billion they will generate in cash this year. It really comes down to I think what they need to materially increase their current capacity to support their long term share goals

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post #69 of 119
1/24/12 at 10:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Why? Apple as a business does what it must to survive... and it's all legal. And paying "more taxes" doesn't cut it anymore. The problem with government is spending.

Tax legal is a nebulous term, here today, gone tomorrow. The issues of government 'spending' are, IMO, primarily- health care cost as a percentage of the economy has grown from about 5% of GDP in 1965 to about 16 %(in case your wondering, this is freaking huge) today and no real increase in government income to match that large of an increase in expedature. Consequntly and in addition, since Reagan(who had huge deficits in recession... Sound familiar,... and then instituted many tax increases... Damn socialist) the amount of goverment interest payments has grown from about 10% of budget to about 30% today. And for example gasoline taxes went from about 30% per gallon in 1980s to about 12% today. And Bush tax cuts to the lowest effective rate since before WWII. The number of US government employees per 1000 citizens has dropped steadily since 1965. So yea grandma...we have a 'spending' issue, no more Medicare for you! I have an iPad to buy. Apple must survive. Cant spare a square. Glad I have my priorities straight. End of rant... Sorry.

But back to topic.... There's only so many things Apple can do and still stay to their core items. I'll guess they'll offer dividends.
Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster by your side, kid.
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Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster by your side, kid.
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post #70 of 119
1/24/12 at 10:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOROM View Post

Where would you build such a facility? Texas

We're would you get the production workers, the engineers, and everyone else to do this. With 18% unemployment (including discouraged workers) which equals millions of Americans, I don't think that woudl be much of a problem.

Then you would have all the delays due to environmental studies, union activities, U.S government mucking about, If Samsung can build a $5B fab in Texas for the A5 and A6 in less than a year, I don't think this will be a problem.

You are just one of the "negos" (as I used to say in grade school). America has the first or second largest manufacturing sector in the world (depending upon who's numbers you are using). The hurdles here are comparable (but NOT the same) as in any other country. Look at the government corruption, roadblocking and graft in China. They just finally approved the iPhone 4S, after months of delay!

We could do it within a blink of the eye.


There is a world of a difference between final component assembly, which is a relatively low-tech labor intensive process, and chip fabrication, which is a technology and capital intensive activity.

And you think just because there are a lot of unemployed right now you can easily scrounge up 3000 engineers and 40,000 skilled assembly line workers just like that? As skill requirements go, tomato picking seems easy to fill, right? Well, Alabama can't even find enough tomato pickers to replace the ones they scared away.

You don't really know what you're talking about.
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post #71 of 119
1/24/12 at 10:24pm
What I like about Apple is they don't pay any heed to this B-School BS of "maximizing shareholder value". That's just become an excuse for all sorts of short term stock price manipulation which the executives then use to award themselves undeserved bonuses. Instead, Apple lives by "Build the best products in the world and the stock price takes care of itself."

That's why I'm opposed to stock buybacks and, though not as much, dividends. If you want to get your share of Apple's cash, sell your stock.

What to do with their cash? Apple needs that big pile of cash to be in plain view of the Comcasts, Verizons and ATTs of the world so that there can be no doubt in their minds that if they try to put the squeeze on Apple, Tim Cook will just go out and either buy or build his own carrier.

Or a close second is for Apple, Google, Samsung and MSFT to right now go and by T-Mobile and have T-Mo ensure some price discipline among the wireless carriers. Why a consortium? To avoid getting into antitrust trouble with the Feds.
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post #72 of 119
1/24/12 at 10:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

It is my understanding that all revenue Apple makes overseas is taxed at the rate based on the country the revenue was made in. So they already paid their taxes. Because Apple does not want to pay more taxes on top of what was already paid by the country of origin, they are keeping that money overseas. I'd do the same thing.

So what problem do you have? Oh right... they should pay even more taxes simply to deposit it into a US bank and spend that money in the US right?

Because the amount they are paying in taxes already is not enough right?

I don't think you've heard of double tax treaties.
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post #73 of 119
1/24/12 at 11:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnsey_00 View Post

Build a Death Star!

I would like to second this notion.

It could be powered by OSX. Stormtroopers would be equipped with iPads/phones....
'Destruction at your fingertips'

..... the greatest fame comes from adding to human knowledge, not winning battles.
Paraphrased from Napolean Bonaparte, 1798
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..... the greatest fame comes from adding to human knowledge, not winning battles.
Paraphrased from Napolean Bonaparte, 1798
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post #74 of 119
1/24/12 at 11:25pm
Apple should consider purchase or investing more into the following :

1.Consider Buying Facebook - though will it be this popular in 5 years maybe.
2.Invest more into data centers.
3.Invest into creating better and more independent power/energy sources.
4.Invest in r and d into create the next level power or better battery life's.
5.buy a bandwidth or technology so apple does not need to use the telephone co. and can offer customers direct service with apple and not a cell co.
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post #75 of 119
1/24/12 at 11:47pm
Apple should wage a nuclear war on Android.In memory of Steve Jobs.
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post #76 of 119
1/25/12 at 12:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen View Post

Buy a time machine (a real one) and bring Steve back.

Steve's DNA cloning is underway. For the time being, legal issues only still remain to be resolved. Apple's legal Department is working on this.
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post #77 of 119
1/25/12 at 12:08am
They could put 1 million high power wifi stations in homes across the country spending $1000/yr or so to keep them there and build the largest wifi network in the world and charge a subscription for use. For the last mile coverage, they could launch, rent or buy a satellite:

http://www.terrestar.com/

It seems there might be one going for under $250m:

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...045428,00.html

I'm sure they will be investing heavily in R&D so hopefully a lot goes into energy research. Batteries are probably the most important thing holding technology back. A system to convert heat back into electricity would be pretty good too so they could take the excess heat from a CPU burning away to help charge the battery back up.
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post #78 of 119
1/25/12 at 12:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by franktinsley View Post

1. Save up all the money.
2. Buy Earth.
3. Start Federation of Planets.

create iEarth?
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post #79 of 119
1/25/12 at 12:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Yes, we all know you hate Samsung. Just remember their revenue alone is over 250 billion with assets close to a half trillion. Even the electronics division alone makes 20% more than Apple even has in cash annually.

All for putting Dell out of its misery though.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but...

Samsung Electronics is a separate, public company, and could EASILY be swallowed by Apple. Their market cap as of today is only about $138 Billion, which could be easily absorbed considering the financial standing of Apple.

Samsung's Revenues are in line with that of Apple's, but their Profit isn't even close. Not to mention that much of that revenue and profit comes directly from their business with Apple.
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post #80 of 119
1/25/12 at 12:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen View Post

Buy a time machine (a real one) and bring Steve back.

Epic....
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AppleInsider › Forums › Investors › AAPL Investors › Apple execs are 'actively discussing' what to do with nearly $100B cash hoard