Nokia's earnings plunge 73%, Nintendo sees first annual loss - Page 2

Nintendo will fine.

And for those saying that Nintendo should simply join mobile/ios... strange to hear considering this is one of the few companies that are trying to innovate in their own field (successfully or not), rather then copying their peers and jumping into the latest cash cow trend. You'd think Apple fans would respect such an ideal.

You are speaking on deaf ears honestly, but you are right the Wii is struggling right now and with weak Wii sales that means software sales are obviously down. Nintendo got beat down by PS3/360 which had Skyrim/MW3/Arkham City and a host of console exclusives...while Nintendo had only Skyward Sword. 3DS failed to meet expectations and saw a price cut.

I expect the 3DS to be the only thing to tide Nintendo over till the Wii U, as games like Kingdom Hearts 3D, RE: Revelations, Kid Icarus, MGS3 and a host of others come out in the first half of 2012, and from there we will have to see what E3 brings.

My boys (ages 9 and 11) have stopped playing the Wii. They wanted the fighting games available on the PS3. I was loathe to buy a PS3 because if you look at the top 200 games on amazon.com, nearly all of them are fighting games, some of which are too violent for young, impressionable minds.

We've replaced the Wii and those expensive games with iPads and now a PS3 as well. The upfront cost is nothing when you factor in how many apps are free or 99 cents.

I would think Nintendo would be interested in licensing the Mario franchise to Apple. It's the one thing that differentiated their systems from other, better, game consoles.

Ah, so I'm the old and busted and you're all the new hotness. Seems sort of backwards chronologically.


It seems to be selling well. Their mistake, right now, looks like the Wii, of all things.


No, I'm listening. Listening intently. I was unaware that the Wii was underperforming at this stage, particularly because of how many years it operated as iPhones and iPads do today. I figured that the 3DS had had something of a cold launch, but that doesn't seem to be the case.



See this bothered me. Really bothered me. They announced the Wii U, yeah and then what? Launch date nearly a year later. Don't these guys have any idea what they're doing?! Osborne wasn't even that stupid. The Wii U should have come out THIS holiday season or they shouldn't have announced it yet at all.

I question their choice to announce it so early unless they plan to have an actually good slew of launch titles to capture as many lost sales as they will have in the interim.

They'd need a new, revolutionary Mario (think what Galaxy was to the existing series) and not just a Galaxy rehash. They'd do well to have Super Smash Bros. Universe a launch title, too. And I mean VERY well. Though I know that's a pipe dream at best.

Whew. For a minute there, I thought Nintendo was in trouble. Thanks for assuaging my fears. I can now go back to playing games on my iPad.

No. My rebuttal was the rest of my post.

It's almost like Apple fans have forgotten about the quarters where Apple performed far worse...short term memory, huh?

You claim physical controls trump touch screen controls every time, but that's your opinion only and reality speaks differently.
Actually, it's not an opinion and I have no idea what you're talking about. First of all, it's universally accepted that touch screen controls aren't as good as hardware controls. Whether you want to believe it or not, hardware controls can (and often do) register faster than touch controls. One is clicking a simple switch (essentially an on-off circuit), the other requires multiple processes to determine if something was pressed, where, and is usually registered by things such as the heat of your finger. Hardware controls are much tighter, and I doubt you can find a single credible source that claims otherwise.
Ever heard of a game called Super Meat Boy (if you're a fan of platformers, I'd HIGHLY recommend it)? The developers have specifically stated that they won't develop it for mobile devices because it doesn't belong. The game is crushingly difficult on certain levels and touchscreen controls would make the game impossible. There are A LOT of developers who don't develop for iOS because their games simply wouldn't be possible on it.

The story continues month after month
Really? Because last time I checked the 3DS has been selling at a rate better than any gaming device EVER since the price drop. The DS made Apple sales look small worldwide* and the 3DS is currently outpacing it.
*I recall reading that based on sales, 1 in every 4 people in the US owned a DS.

In less than 3 years Nintendo will either run out of cash, or license products to iOS. That's by 2015. Remember that, for when it happens

That's really all I can say about that. Both of those comments are so horribly false I seriously don't even know where to start. Companies always dip in profit at the end of their current platforms lifecycle. Heck, look how poorly the Gamecube did (ESPECIALLY at the end) and Nintendo bounced back with the Wii and DS. You clearly have absolutely no idea how the video game industry works, and it's people like you that give the idiot analysts the ideas that iOS is competing with Nintendo. THEY AREN'T . If anything, iOS is only broadening the gaming market (similar to what Nintendo did with the Wii and DS). iOS games are great for a few minutes of entertainment but are very rarely good for long periods of extended play time, have a huge lack in terms of graphical abilities, and can't touch the Big 3's online capabilities.
And the day Nintendo licenses out their 1st party icons (Mario, Zelda, etc) I'll eat my shorts. Those products can (and have) sold systems by themselves . Based on how misguided your post is (especially with the history of Nintendo), I can probably assume that Nintendo's been in this game longer than you've been alive. Trust me, there's a reason they're still around.

I agree. I was in a T-Mobile store yesterday, and played around with the Lumia. If I couldn't get an iPhone, I would go with a Nokia Windows Mobile over Android.

Nokia's hardware is top notch. It doesn't feel cheap like Samsung, Motorola, and HTC phones (which all use a lot of cheap plastic). T-Mobile also has a lot of Android phones, so it was easy to compare.

Moreover, for me, one of the appeals of Apple products are they all play together nice. My Macbook, Apple TV, iPad, and iPhones all work together well. I also have an X-Box. Microsoft is starting to leverage it's successful X-Box platform with Windows Phone, and most likely Window Metro (when it comes out). I think over time, this will pan out for Microsoft.

Moreover, Android is slowly getting more expensive for companies like Samsung and HTC. They are all paying Microsoft licensing fees. There is a strong possibility Oracle is going to win its lawsuit against Google and ask for a licensing fee. THey have to pay millions of dollars to fight Apple. Further, they soon might have to compete with Google owned Motorola.

Windows Phone eventually will be a better alternative for many hardware manufacturers because it will be cheaper. Apple isn't going to go after Microsoft or hardware manufacturers using Windows Phones. If Apple did, unlike Google, Microsoft indemnifies its hardware manufactures from lawsuits.

The difference is that Apple products are sold out AT LAUNCH of a new version and then they eventually get caught up. For example, it's now about 4 months post-4S launch and you could walk into hundreds of stores and find a 4S.

The Wii remained sold out for YEARS even after sales had started to decline or had leveled off.

The difference though is that the wii had higher demand then the iphone. If you look at wii and iphone sales in 2007, you'll notice that per quarter the wii was selling nearly 2-4 times as many units per quarter than the iphone. iphone sales didn't reach wii sales per quarter until Q3 2009 early Q2 2010. Also during the first 2-3 years Nintendo had increased production of the wii by nearly 50% each year.

The explanation is that I went to the Nokia website to get more pictures to see if this phone is as ugly as it is in this articles photo. Apparently, they are already in bed with T-Mobile because the phone they advertise on their website has a T-Mobile logo along the bottom. And isn't that the Windows logo on the button? Three logos on the front???? I have looked at a logo of phones, and with windows and android every idiot company that has anything to do with the phone needs to have the logo on the front. And why do you need a search for search button. If you can't find search in their software interface how are you going to find anything else? And a back button, what is the windows button?

Okay, lets design a piece of junk and put everyones logo on it so you know who did it.

As for Apple, they have a really nice clean logo, they leave off the company name, and they put it on the back of the phone where it doesn't distract from the interface. Google had the brains to come up with an android logo which was as sophisticated and cool as Apple's but you never see it on a phone. Everyone else has these dull corporate logos which they eagerly throw in your face. It just screams that these companies are run by corporate idiots.

Having a search button doesn't mean there isn't a way to access the OS search function. It simply allows you access to search with ONE click regardless of where you are. How do you search in iOS 5? Slide left to open search from the home screen. Who would've thought to slide left to search? What if your homescreen is in the middle of 8 pages? You would've to click the home button, and then slide left. With android or WP7, just click the search button anytime. Do you really believe this is MORE intuitive than a dedicated search button?

The back button is very convenient, at least in WP7. If I'm using an app and let say the app has a link that opens up the browser to a specific page. After clicking on the link and viewing the content on the specific page, I can just hit BACK, and I'm back to where I left off in the previous app. There's no need to bring up the app switching interface. I could if I want, but I don't have to.

In iOS, suppose an app that I am using has a link that opens up the browser. How do I go back to the previous app? Well, you would have to double-click on the Home button and then select the previous app. That's TWO taps vs ONE tap.

14 million 3DS for the year. Wow, Apple sold 15 million iPads in a quarter and the 3DS is only a fraction of the price of the iPad.

Yes, and fools constantly fly out of the woodwork claiming that Macs are better than PC's. They just have goofy idiosyncrasies. It's just their preference. The market's preference is entirely different, and every single month of sales for at least the last 28 years has proven it.

More to the point, and less sarcasm.... I can easily imagine a stylus providing greater accuracy than thumbs. Frankly, I hate texting because I find the touch screen sensitivity to be relatively poor (i.e.: c®@p), and so I prefer a standard size keyboard & email. If it has to be done via the phone, I'd MUCH rather talk. BTW, ever see that Tonight Show episode with Jay Leno... texting versus Morse code? http://bitly.com/A0kr6C Just because the market prefers something, doesn't mean it has higher performance.

The Wii is on its last legs and the PS3 is lagging in software sales (apparently a lot of people just bought one as a Blu-ray player).

The Xbox 360 has all the momentum at this point. The PS3 may eventually catch it on total sales but not after it has stopped being relevant.

The iPad is basically an all-purpose computer. The 3DS is a games-only machine. Apples and oranges.

If Apple released a games-only iPad, it would sell far less than it has, also likely far less than most other dedicated gaming systems.

You push a lot more keys than one, to do a search, you are forgetting the 5 to 20 you push on the keyboard, hoping to hit the combination which will bring up what you want.

On an iPhone I have never had an overwhelming need to constantly be searching for stuff. I have over a hundred apps, thousands of songs, many movies, lots of e-mail. Maybe if MS had spent a little more time thinking about the interface they wouldn't need a hardwired a search for search button.

If you really need search you just push the home button twice and you have search, you are bound to stumble upon it within the first day owning the phone, and then you know. These days just asking, such as, "Find my wife's e-mail from yesterday" seems to be my preferred method.

As for the back button. Of my hundreds of apps, I can't think of one that takes me to a web page. They call it "in-app-purchasing". The whole point of apps is to avoid webpages.

Just another example of geek button fetish to resolve stuff they were too lazy to really solve.

You went to the Nokia USA website, that is the localised one for your location, not their global one.

Nokia has their logo on the top, can't understand why that is an issue, they make the thing. The windows symbol, that is a button, it is a MS rule that they all have this button on them. T-Mobile, well again, you are looking at the USA version, if you look at the global site that model doesn't have a vendor logo on it.

Do a search for Nokia's logo, it is their name and a saying, on all their phones they just put the name part in, how is this any different than Apple putting their logo on their phones? How does the name district from the interface? When I use my phone I look at the screen, not the logo above it

I just got the Lumia 800 and I have to say wow, it is truly an amazing bit of hardware. As much as I like WP7 the hardware up until this point hasn't been as good as the iPhone. But the Lumia 800 really does end that.


I've had a Windows Phone since WP7 came out but just bought my wife an iPhone 4 (for the record of love Apple and MS products fairly evenly) and the most irritating thing I've found about the iPhone is the lack of a didicated back button. Every app has a back button at the top of the screen in quite possibly the most inconveniant place and like you said if you go into another app there's no quick way to get back, as every app is treated individually you can't click back into it.

Now the home button on the iPhone has to be a great example of confusing UI. Things have moved on a bit since my 3G but so far I've essablished:

1 click takes you home
2 clicks opens the app switching
To search is a little more confusing it's either 1 click space 2 clicks, or 2 clicks space 1 click. 3 clicks doesn't do it, that just gets you the app switching again. If your on a different home screen though you have to do a first click to get back to the first home screen so its something like 1 click gap 1 click gap 2 click, or 1, 2, 1 im not really sure.

Photo's are also interesting, rather than having a camera button, you use the volume button. How you change the volume though is a mystery.

Spoken like someone who hasn't actually used one of the phones. You get that the sideways scrolling works the same way as tabs right.

If you like buttons though you'll love Windows 8. It's got buttons all over the place, covering the screen. Just like the iPhone, back buttons, search buttons, tab buttons lots and lots of buttons.

Sorry couldn't resist, but anyone who says the sideways scrolling to navigate between tabs is basically saying your should have buttons rather than gestures. Do you seriously think the iPhone home screen would be better if it's pages were on tabs rather than sideways scrolling!!!

I really doubt that T-Mobile has a factory where they unbox Nokia phones and print their logo on them. Someone at Nokia said, "Okay, okay, we can fit another logo on the phone."

Here is an old video that some designers at microsoft put together to shame the company for letting corporate and marketing idiots dictate produce design. Sort of says it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k

Unfortunately, good nor bad design can't be proven. However, they do exist. It is always possible that a company clueless enough to plaster their phone with logos might have produced a decent product, but I would call it the first warning sign. It screams "designed by committee"

You still seem to be having trouble with the fact it is a local version for t-mobile, Nokia would have been paid to put the logo on, the unbranded model doesn't have an operator logo on it, it you want one, buy the unbranded one, if you don't want one, what difference does it matter to you? The logo doesn't interfer with the operation of the phone

Just a heads up, there have been rumors that a Smash game will be coming out for the 3DS (a lot of people believe it will be announced at E3). If a Super Smash Bros game comes out for the 3DS expect it to absolutely smash, crush, destroy, and mangle every console record ever set. The only reason the Gamecube wasn't a company crushing flop was because SSB Melee LITERALLY kept the
system afloat. It remained in the top 25 for video games sold for YEARS after it was released. Nintendo 1st party characters can pull the weight of a system by themselves. Apparently if you throw them all together to hit each other they can do it even better

That being said, I know of at least 20 people who would buy a 3DS and wait in line for the release of a Smash title on the 3DS (anecdotal evidence I know, but seeing as how a lot of them gave up gaming past the N64/PSX days I find it useful).

Edit: Forgot, Nintendo confirmed that Smash will be coming to the 3DS. It's only a matter of time...

I would love to have been a fly on the wall when ATT asked Steve Jobs to put their logo on the front of the iPhone. Of course they did at some point.

But it is nice to know that if I special order a Nokia phone I can get one with only two logos junking up the clutter of buttons, widgets and flashy animation. Comforting to hear that Nokia has standards, and won't add another ugly logo to the front of their phone unless there is a little money in it for them. I imagine they could make even more money if they added a little Coca-cola logo somewhere (there is always room for another advertisement, it seems).

The point isn't that I don't like Nokia phones. Just about all Android and Windows phone makers cram logos all over the front of their phones. It is just one small example of why most phones look so junky. Generally, if I like a phone and the service provider (and the software author) I don't need to be reminded of the companies I am dealing with every time I go to make a phone call, or through two hours of movie viewing.

deleted

With all due respect, you sound like one of those preppy high schoolers that proclaims wearing "GAP" is lame because it's plastered all over the front of the shirt, as she wears a shirt with "Hollister" embroiled across the entire thing. You can't claim that you don't like logos, but claim you don't mind having Apple's logo because it's "classy". All you're saying then is "I don't mind being seen with an Apple brand device, but I wouldn't be caught dead if someone wrote HTC on something".

That's fine if you feel that way, but don't try and play it off like you don't like having brand logos on the phone.

For some games yes. For other games, meh. Care to play Fruit Ninja with hardware controls? That said, I'd really like to see a standardized game controller for iOS.


Or perhaps moving from a $49.99 price point to a $4.99 price point is a higher barrier.


Funny...I remember Sony fans saying the same thing about the PS3...sales were higher for the PS3 than the PS2 after launch.

As far as numbers go iOS vs Nintendo:



http://www.asymco.com/2011/11/16/the...rtable-device/


I suggest looking at that chart again and also the statistic that nintendo and sony mobile game revenue share has been in decline. In 2009 Nintendo had 70% portable game revenue share. In 2010 the number was 57% share and the estimate for 2011 was as low as 36%.



http://blog.sfgate.com/techchron/201...intendo-sonys/


Bullshit. You haven't watched my kids playing the iPad for hours. And no, it's not Angry Birds but FPS like Rainbow Six and NOVA. And those are older FPS titles on iOS. I've personally spent hours flying cross country playing Civ Revolutions on the iPad.

I grew up with Zelda and nintendo. The first one. My kids never will. I'm not shelling out $50 for a game anymore and I want their eyes to work right when they're older. $4.99/$6.99 for most good titles and $9.99 for AAA iOS titles is hell of a lot better than even Gamestop used game prices.

Besides Apple isn't putting in faster and faster GPUs in the iPhone 4S and iPad 2 for the sake of Angry Bird type games.

And lets be honest here. If I'm looking for hardcore games I'm getting a Vita and not a 3DS anyway. A nintendo fan putting on hardcore airs in comparison to iOS gamers is just humorous. Both iOS and Nintendo are casual gaming fare. Especially given there are going to be far more hardcore titles for the iPad vs 3DS anyway. On the console side it's 360 or PS3.

Although, with Airplay the iPad looks pretty decent. Just limited without hardware controls. Nothing a couple bluetooth controllers can't fix if Apple supports them in the API.

My prediction is that the WiiU will not sell in Wii numbers.

Again, how does having a logo on the phone change its functionality and usability?


Now you are starting to get stupid, t-mobile are added as it is a t-mobile model, just like AT&T is being added to the at&t model, if you don't want the logo buy the unbranded model, it is available. Also, may I ask what type of sandpaper you used to scratch the Apple logo off all your products? Or the brand name of any of your products?


Actually, you have made it quite clear that you don't like Nokia phones, as the logo isn't an issue, you can purchase an unbranded model so you have no argument, those companies are subsidising the cost of the phone for you, they wanted their logo on it, Nokia agreed, so what? When I make a call, or watch a movie on my phone I look at the screen, I don't look at the logo on it, I look at the screen

nht, I'm not sure how to do the multiquote thing you did (...so jealous) so bare with me for this horribly butchered attempt.


For some games yes. For other games, meh. Care to play Fruit Ninja with hardware controls? That said, I'd really like to see a standardized game controller for iOS.


The difference here being you can't sell a system with Fruit Ninja. A lot of games that are touch based (not all) are simply time wasters (because that's the audience a lot of iOS/Android developers are aiming at). The fact of the matter is games that are popular now (FPS, platforming, fighting, etc) are all FAR superior on hardware controls. While I understand that certain games developed explicitly FOR iOS will have better controls with touch, you really can't argue that for 99% of games function better with hardware controls (take into account that a mouse/keyboard also counts as hardware).

Funny...I remember Sony fans saying the same thing about the PS3...sales were higher for the PS3 than the PS2 after launch.

As far as numbers go iOS vs Nintendo:

I'm going to be completely honest, I can't discern much from that graph (I'm colorblind ). That being said, I can see that the legend shows "Number of hardware units sold". Are you really going to compare a Phone sale that has gaming capabilities to a dedicated gaming platform? By that logic my Macbook Pro should be counted against my TV since they both have access to Netflix.

I suggest looking at that chart again and also the statistic that nintendo and sony mobile game revenue share has been in decline. In 2009 Nintendo had 70% portable game revenue share. In 2010 the number was 57% share and the estimate for 2011 was as low as 36%.

I love when pie charts use vastly different colors This again doesn't take into account the fact that iOS has probably twice as many devices out as the Nintendo DS. Add that to the fact that iOS apps make 100% profit when they're sold (it costs nothing to distribute the software) and this makes complete sense.


Bullshit. You haven't watched my kids playing the iPad for hours. And no, it's not Angry Birds but FPS like Rainbow Six and NOVA. And those are older FPS titles on iOS. I've personally spent hours flying cross country playing Civ Revolutions on the iPad.


And you haven't seen the giant LAN parties that people have here playing Mario Kart for the 3DS for DAYS on end (it's actually borderline disturbing). I don't doubt that those games can occupy your kids for hours, I'm saying if the vast majority of people were told they had to sit in a room for 3 hours and play a game, most would pick up a PSP/3DS before they picked up a smartphone.

grew up with Zelda and nintendo. The first one. My kids never will. I'm not shelling out $50 for a game anymore and I want their eyes to work right when they're older. $4.99/$6.99 for most good titles and $9.99 for AAA iOS titles is hell of a lot better than even Gamestop used game prices.

Besides Apple isn't putting in faster and faster GPUs in the iPhone 4S and iPad 2 for the sake of Angry Bird type games.

And lets be honest here. If I'm looking for hardcore games I'm getting a Vita and not a 3DS anyway. A nintendo fan putting on hardcore airs in comparison to iOS gamers is just humorous. Both iOS and Nintendo are casual gaming fare. Especially given there are going to be far more hardcore titles for the iPad vs 3DS anyway. On the console side it's 360 or PS3.

Although, with Airplay the iPad looks pretty decent. Just limited without hardware controls. Nothing a couple bluetooth controllers can't fix if Apple supports them in the API.
I'm not exactly a Nintendo fan (although I definitely love a lot of their games). I own far more non-Nintendo products than not, but as someone who's grown up with family IN the industry, I have a pretty good feel for how the video game industry works. It was obvious that the PSP would flop (and I expect the Vita to only do marginally better). I think the Wii U will be mediocre at best, but with Super Smash Bros coming out on the 3DS I can easily see it smashing sales records. Super Smash Bros sells systems. Period. Combine the most popular video gaming company, one of the most popular series' of all time, and a portable device and you have license to print money

But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

Since when has Nintendo been a competitor of Apple?

Nintendo makes dedicated games machines. Apple doesn’t; they make products that you can (sort of) play games on, but that certainly isn’t its primary function.

This forum is funny.

Since Apple made a handheld game machine.


And yet it's one of the largest functions of the device, was PITCHED BY APPLE as being one of the primary functions of the device, and has visibly shown its effect on other devices in that category.


Indeed, its users aren't fans of reading.

I love my iPhone, but never consider it a true gaming device. It's okay for a blast on Angry Birds whilst I'm having a poo, but you are hard pressed to match the sort of content you can get on 3DS, and the forthcoming VITA (which I have on pre-order)

And as has been mentioned before... Touch screens suck for many genres of games.