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EFF working to keep iPhone, iPad 'jailbreaking' legal in US - Page 2

post #41 of 69
1/27/12 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeejay21 View Post

Jailbreaking should be legal whereas malicious apps and/or pirating is illegal? Where are you gonna put pirated apps on if not on jailbreak devices?

All pirates are jailbreakers but not all jailbreakers are pirates.

The scales of that statement aren't nearly as balanced as they used to be.
PhilBoogie
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post #42 of 69
1/27/12 at 11:26am
Apple used to be cool, innovative, but now it's more focused on control than anything else.

You can still do pretty much what you want with Pro, iMac and MacBook, so I use them, but move to Linux more every day. Linux don't tell you what you may do, see.

I remember when I got one of the first iPhones available over here. Enormous enthusiasm, but that faded very quickly when it became apparent that

1) The phone was locked to an operator - unheard of here, then.
2) It had to be activated on the internet before you could use it.
3) One could not run anything but allowed apps on it.

Additionally, when the phone didn't show up like any USB stick in the Finder, I gave up. I now use an old Nokia as a simple telephone, and the iPhone as a dictaphone and guitar tuner only.

The iPhone has an old (expired) prepaid SIM card in it so it will work at all, but that's all.

About jailbreaking; if you need it, you do it if you can. About it being legal or not; who cares? "They" never gave you anything, so why should you give them your obedience that can only lead to "Skynet" - step by step. People being enthusiastic over Siri and stuff; it's the voice of Skynet speaking there, so fight back now (with your wallets and feet at least).

People, don't turn into obedient, programmed consumers just because of some shiny gizmo that goes Beep-Beep.
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post #43 of 69
1/27/12 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcartesius View Post

Linux don't tell you what you may do, see.

Right, we need an emoticon that starts at a neutral face and slowly, horrifyingly expands to a smile. Imagine that here.

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Enormous enthusiasm, but that faded very quickly when it became apparent that

1) The phone was locked to an operator - unheard of here, then.

Where's 'here' for you? Just to clarify.

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3) One could not run anything but allowed apps on it.

Just like every single other phone in virtually every single other country on the planet. Except minus the 'allowed to run absolutely anything but the stuff your carrier put on it' part. Again, knowing where you are will clarify your position.

Quote:
Additionally, when the phone didn't show up like any USB stick in the Finder, I gave up.



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I now use an old Nokia as a simple telephone, and the iPhone as a dictaphone and guitar tuner only.

Maybe should have actually done some research on the purchase, then?

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About it being legal or not; who cares?

Jailbreaking isn't illegal. That's the point. Illegal crap is illegal. And pirates get no recourse.

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"They" never gave you anything,

Because the best phone ever made, the one that destroyed the telecoms' hold on phone software, isn't "anything.

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People being enthusiastic over Siri and stuff; it's the voice of Skynet speaking there, so fight back now (with your wallets and feet at least).



Quote:
People, don't turn into obedient, programmed consumers just because of some shiny gizmo that goes Beep-Beep.

Strange. Seems that all Linux does is beep.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
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post #44 of 69
1/27/12 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

All pirates are jailbreakers but not all jailbreakers are pirates.

The scales of that statement aren't nearly as balanced as they used to be.

I understand that and I'm not speaking on jailbreakers - they're people; this is about jailbreaking and jailbreaking promotes piracy as well as other security concerns. Even if people don't install any pirated apps, they indirectly supports it with or without their knowledge.

Jailbreaking shouldn't be an issue if there was moderation & control. It can be considered as an alternative. However, I'm not seeing anything like that happened eversince it was 'legalized'.
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post #45 of 69
1/27/12 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcartesius View Post

Apple used to be cool, innovative, but now it's more focused on control than anything else.

You can still do pretty much what you want with Pro, iMac and MacBook, so I use them, but move to Linux more every day. Linux don't tell you what you may do, see.

Neither does iOS. It's called Safari.

As far as the App Store, it's no different than buying software as Best Buy; Best Buy doesn't sell harmful, malicious, pirated, or pornographic software. Actually, there's more openness, as small fish can get their apps discovered.

You strike me as the sort that chafes against any form of rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcartesius View Post

"They" never gave you anything, so why should you give them your obedience that can only lead to "Skynet" - step by step. People being enthusiastic over Siri and stuff; it's the voice of Skynet speaking there, so fight back now (with your wallets and feet at least).

People, don't turn into obedient, programmed consumers just because of some shiny gizmo that goes Beep-Beep.

Right...

Is it a full moon? They're really out in force right now.
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post #46 of 69
1/27/12 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Just to be picky and because it's constantly being misrepresented, Jailbreaking is not "legal."

The wording is that it's illegal is the purpose you jailbreak for is itself illegal, so in the example above. It's not that you are using a "legal process" to do an illegal thing (if you are pirating apps), it's that the act of jail breaking itself becomes illegal if you use it to pirate apps. It's a small but important difference. It's not blankly legal to jailbreak your device, it depends upon your intention.

Jailbreaking is also illegal if it's used to port Siri to a device that Apple doesn't want you to use Siri on for example. Jailbreaking is illegal if you want to use it to install an app that itself does an illegal thing like tracking apps, various hacks etc.

When tech sites state that "jail breaking is legal" and then in one of their articles direct someone to a jail breaking site, they are actually breaking the law if said site does any of these things (or similar) or promotes any one of these things (or similar things).

Since many of these sites contain apps that would be technically illegal or links to sites that do illegal things, it would really be best if you guys stopped posting articles with such links to Cydia etc., and stop passing around the false idea that jailbreaking is 100% legal all the time. Since the majority of jail breakers would be using such apps or doing such things ... jailbreaking *is* actually still a crime in most cases.



As an attorney (with a fair amount of IP experience), I can you that you have this wrong. You wouldn't say opening your car door is illegal if your intent is to get in the car and go rob a bank any more than you would say jail breaking is illegal. It is what you do after you jailbreak the device that counts. Jail breaking on its face it legal (as it should be). Now you might use the fact that somebody jail broke a phone along with some other evidence to proof an attempted crime involving IP theft.
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post #47 of 69
1/27/12 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeejay21 View Post

I understand that and I'm not speaking on jailbreakers - they're people; this is about jailbreaking and jailbreaking promotes piracy as well as other security concerns. Even if people don't install any pirated apps, they indirectly supports it with or without their knowledge.

Jailbreaking shouldn't be an issue if there was moderation & control. It can be considered as an alternative. However, I'm not seeing anything like that happened eversince it was 'legalized'.


BS. People who follow the law shouldn't have to suffer for the acts of those who choose to violate the law. Jailbreaking is essential for people who want to unlock phones they own. Further, it is essential for people who want to use their devices for purposes not allowed by the hardware vendor. For instance, prior to iOS 5 Apple had the worst notification system on its phones. Android's was much better.

Apple didn't allow third party alternatives to its Notification system on its App Store. One, however, could go to Cydia and find better options. Ironically, Apple hired the developer of a Cydia alternative to help with the current iOS Notification System. I also use other legal applications, like VLC Media Viewer that I use on my Mac, that Apple does not offer on its App Store.

The next thing people of your ilk will want is for Apple to close down its Macs so its users don't have access to the file system and don't have the ability to bypass the App Store to acquire applications.
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post #48 of 69
1/27/12 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeejay21 View Post

You're not making any sense.

Jailbreaking should be legal whereas malicious apps and/or pirating is illegal? Where are you gonna put pirated apps on if not on jailbreak devices? As for robbing or killing, which body part got cuffed when you got arrested? Your hands. And your feet if you start kicking. And your mouth too if you start making threats.

What an irresponsible comment. So the government should NOT be responsible for suicides and killings, is that what you're saying? Then we need not police and soldiers to keep us safe from bad, irresponsible people because it's our fault that we let these bad things happened and let those bad people roam free.

Does a lot of people put nitrous in their cars? If so, there'll be many nitro-equipped cars in the streets now and besides, you just touched on modified cars - one that I'm also interested in. You know that street racing, mostly with modified, nitrous equipped cars, without proper safety and management leads to accidents and other problems, right? That made it illegal because it endangers lives. And, from where I lived, modifying cars IS illegal because most of them are used in illegal street racing.

We're not talking about desktop OS where it's allowed to be tweaked (but not sold, in OSX and Windows case), we're talking about mobile OS and console OS. This is a new generation, not the old one. Console makers, such as Sony and Microsoft, has a firm stand on this jailbreak issue and has legal support - why can't Apple have one?

idiotic statements. So by your theory we should make jailbreaking illegal because someone COULD do something illegal with it.


That is moronic on so many levels.
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post #49 of 69
1/27/12 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by airnerd View Post

So you never speed, jaywalk, curse, or anything like that?


Morally wrong? Thanks for the laugh.

Remind me never to make a bargain with you. Apparently your word is worthless. The idea of morality just makes you giggle. Sad.
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post #50 of 69
1/27/12 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol77 View Post

Buying knives should be illegal. They can be used to kill people. If I used my butter knife to kill someone, the act of buying the butter knife at Ikea months ago becomes illegal.

I get that some are frustrated by the gray areas, similar to how people feel about gun laws in the States, but if there is a gray area, it is things like Installous, not jailbreaking. I've jailbroken my phone, and the only thing I do with it is add stupid tweaks, use activator for gesture controles, etc.

How many people out there are like me...you see this as a complete non-issue that shouldn't even be considered? I don't understand how the matter of jailbreaking is even considered a "matter."

This is not relevant ... just rhetoric to make a case that doesn't even relate.
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post #51 of 69
1/27/12 at 1:22pm
let's please diffrentiate between jailbreaking and pirating apps
they are not the same thing
you like all the fancy new features on the new iOS5?
you can thank the jailbreakers for the majority of them
I have many jailbreaks that improve the iphone
i have 5 day weather forcast on the lock screen
i have a small mail icon that appears when i have new mail, as opposed to having to unlock the phone to see if i have a 1 next to the mail icon
i can clear up memory
i have increased the size of my memory (syslceanpro)
i can turn on and off wifi/bluetooh/data/3g with one swipe
so jailbreaking does not cut into apples bottom line
in fact it adds to the pro's of the iphone/ipod touch/ipad
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post #52 of 69
1/27/12 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post

you like all the fancy new features on the new iOS5?
you can thank the jailbreakers for the majority of them

No

Quote:
i have increased the size of my memory (syslceanpro)



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so jailbreaking does not cut into apples bottom line

Sure it doesn't.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
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post #53 of 69
1/27/12 at 3:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habañero View Post

totally agree THAT should be illegal, but the carriers claim Apple is the one who won't provide the unlock code.
(AT&T happily provided the unlock code for my RAZR when I completed my contract, since Motorola gave it to them)

Apple is the one keeping your iPhone locked, not your carrier (one more reason jailbreaking should remain legal)

That's rubbish, here in Australia you can legally unlock an iPhone as soon as you buy it (well it takes a couple of days for Apple to update their database and requires a restore), all it requires is a phonecall or entering your IMEI on a carriers website.

We also sell them outright as PAYG.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #54 of 69
1/27/12 at 4:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcartesius View Post

Apple used to be cool, innovative, but now it's more focused on control than anything else.

You can still do pretty much what you want with Pro, iMac and MacBook, so I use them, but move to Linux more every day. Linux don't tell you what you may do, see.

I remember when I got one of the first iPhones available over here. Enormous enthusiasm, but that faded very quickly when it became apparent that

1) The phone was locked to an operator - unheard of here, then.
2) It had to be activated on the internet before you could use it.
3) One could not run anything but allowed apps on it.

Additionally, when the phone didn't show up like any USB stick in the Finder, I gave up. I now use an old Nokia as a simple telephone, and the iPhone as a dictaphone and guitar tuner only.

So, let's see. Your point is that Apple and its developers should allow pirates and thieves to take advantage of them because you weren't paying attention when you signed your phone contract?
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post #55 of 69
1/27/12 at 4:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

Jailbreaking is not a crime. Great motto. I'd be very much interested to know what percent of people *don't* use jail breaking to enable theft of apps.

It's like electronic keys. There's a few legit uses for them. But most uses are nefarious.

I see that a bunch of people have reported that they do NOT use jailbreaking for pirated apps, but I don't know anyone at my school who doesn't use jailbreaking for the express purpose of getting apps for free. It's not like they're rampant downloaders or anything, but whenever I talk to people who do it, they mention how they don't have to pay for any of their apps.

I'm all for jailbreaking for fun and extra functionality (although that guy talking about the EULA has a point). Protections for the general process of jailbreaking are fine, but from my experience, you're only doing it for a small percentage of users. In other words, I'm not going to get too worked up about it.
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post #56 of 69
1/27/12 at 4:45pm
Jailbreaking should absolutely be kept legal. You bought the thing, and it's nobody's business, not even Apple's, what you do with it. If you want to install Flash on it or make it run Android, that's your business too. Apple doesn't own your iPhone, you do.
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post #57 of 69
1/27/12 at 10:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post

you like all the fancy new features on the new iOS5?
you can thank the jailbreakers for the majority of them

Really?
Perhaps you can give some examples of features in iOS 5 that Apple got from
jailbreakers?
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post #58 of 69
1/28/12 at 4:50am
Freedom will always come out on top over time.
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post #59 of 69
1/28/12 at 4:56am
EFF is jailbreakers' BFF.
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post #60 of 69
1/28/12 at 6:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporlo View Post

I see that a bunch of people have reported that they do NOT use jailbreaking for pirated apps, but I don't know anyone at my school who doesn't use jailbreaking for the express purpose of getting apps for free. It's not like they're rampant downloaders or anything, but whenever I talk to people who do it, they mention how they don't have to pay for any of their apps.

I'm all for jailbreaking for fun and extra functionality (although that guy talking about the EULA has a point). Protections for the general process of jailbreaking are fine, but from my experience, you're only doing it for a small percentage of users. In other words, I'm not going to get too worked up about it.

That tells me you're a kid. Kids do stupid stuff. You and your peers will eventually grow up. Some people (maybe even most) use jail breaking for perfectly legal and functional purposes.
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post #61 of 69
1/28/12 at 6:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Really?
Perhaps you can give some examples of features in iOS 5 that Apple got from
jailbreakers?

Using the volume button to snap a picture. And the entire notification center.
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post #62 of 69
1/28/12 at 7:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenG4 View Post

Using the volume button to snap a picture.

As the story goes, that was originally in a legitimate app, I believe.

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And the entire notification center.

As the story goes, that was originally in Android. Additionally, there's absolutely no way that anyone can say a feature 'wouldn't have been added without the jailbreak community', because they just don't know that.
PhilBoogie
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post #63 of 69
1/28/12 at 2:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You trust the TELECOMS more than Apple.

The TELECOMS.


Actually it is apple. The iPhone is not locked the way normal phones are. Normal phones have a lock on them on a very basic level of the ROM. iPhones, have the lock fully baked into the OS. I seen a Gentleman purchase an Unlocked iPhone 4 in Canada a few months back. He updated it in America. iTunes read the phone as a US, GSM iPhone 4 (at the time meant ATT iPhone). After he updated his phone was locked to AT&T. The very software it placed on his phone is what locked it to ATT.
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post #64 of 69
1/28/12 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

That's rubbish, here in Australia you can legally unlock an iPhone as soon as you buy it (well it takes a couple of days for Apple to update their database and requires a restore), all it requires is a phonecall or entering your IMEI on a carriers website.

We also sell them outright as PAYG.

You can get your iphones unlocked here in the UK too. Oh, and we can buy them from an Apple store without a lock in the first place too so we can just put a PAYG sim in (which is what I do).
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post #65 of 69
1/28/12 at 3:07pm
I wish Apple would just brick every jailbroken device. I guess even if they could they wouldn't because of the reaction, but hey I can dream.
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post #66 of 69
1/28/12 at 3:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple v. Samsung View Post

Actually it is apple. The iPhone is not locked the way normal phones are. Normal phones have a lock on them on a very basic level of the ROM. iPhones, have the lock fully baked into the OS. I seen a Gentleman purchase an Unlocked iPhone 4 in Canada a few months back. He updated it in America. iTunes read the phone as a US, GSM iPhone 4 (at the time meant ATT iPhone). After he updated his phone was locked to AT&T. The very software it placed on his phone is what locked it to ATT.

Updated it in the US after having put in an AT&T SIM? After having connected to AT&T? After doing a carrier update internationally?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aderutter View Post

I wish Apple would just brick every jailbroken device. I guess even if they could they wouldn't because of the reaction, but hey I can dream.

No, that's incredibly silly. I'm against piracy 100%, but bricking devices is a stupid idea, particularly when piracy is not the ONLY use of jailbreaking and when Apple has absolutely no legal jurisdiction to do that sort of thing.

It happened by circumstance in iPhone OS 1.1.1, I believe, after the first true jailbreak in 1.0.2 was patched, but since then, no.
PhilBoogie
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PhilBoogie
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post #67 of 69
1/28/12 at 10:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

Jailbreaking should absolutely be kept legal. You bought the thing, and it's nobody's business, not even Apple's, what you do with it. If you want to install Flash on it or make it run Android, that's your business too. Apple doesn't own your iPhone, you do.

Except you only license the software. You don't own it. You have no right to modify it.
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post #68 of 69
1/29/12 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Except you only license the software. You don't own it. You have no right to modify it.

its all just friggin stupid. you can modify your automobile without fear of being a criminal. You may void your warranty but that is another thing. automotive companies tried to play the 'void your warranty' if you don't use authorized Ford (for example) dealership to have your oil changed. didn't pan out.

if what apple is trying to do was applied all around to every product with some IP, Patents, 'License' then you would hear all of these toadies who are just backing Apple cuz its Apple whining about it.

apple is headed into the 'you can't do anything to modify 'our' stuff'. they might let you change a wallpaper if your lucky but that will be about it. This is an old stance and the very reason Stallman started Free Software and the GPL. Free as in Freedom.
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post #69 of 69
1/29/12 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

you can modify your automobile without fear of being a criminal.

Not some parts, and not in some ways.

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apple is headed into the 'you can't do anything to modify 'our' stuff'.

Headed? That's where they've always been. That's why the Macintosh 128k was an all-in-one. That's why the Mac Mini is a single piece of aluminum.

What is upgradable now in Macs is virtually everything that needs to be. You forget for whom Apple makes computers and devices, really. 95% of the population couldn't care less about how it works or how to fix the inside. For the rest of us, if we want to know and want to do, we can and do.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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