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Before he died, Steve Jobs kept a letter from Bill Gates by his bed - Page 2

post #41 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

You mean the ideas he swindled from Xerox?

Let's take a vote: repeating this exhausted, endlessly refuted chestnut should be sufficient grounds for immediate, permanent ban, in that it suggests the kind of profound and willful ignorance that can only lead to tears.
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post #42 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeejay21 View Post

Not in my view. Otherwise, why would Gates now keeps saying good things about Jobs?

To me, that's because he wants the same treatment from people that has treated Jobs. Gates always want that Jobs celebrity status even when he (Gates) passed away. Gates too wanted to leave a legacy.

Somehow, I got a feeling that Gates is either:

a) trying to make a comeback at Microsoft

or

b) just to gain support for his philanthropy business

or

c) both


With Gates, unless he beats Steve Jobs, it's still an ongoing competition even when Jobs has long passed away.

That's some crazy opinion, yeah but it's my gut feeling talking.

you're a paranoid person...for no real reason.
post #43 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Let's take a vote: repeating this exhausted, endlessly refuted chestnut should be sufficient grounds for immediate, permanent ban, in that it suggests the kind of profound and willful ignorance that can only lead to tears.

It hasn't been fully refuted as I've heard many stories suggesting both things with the same level of clarity (and evidence) so I simply discount it as the usual and time honored tradition of idea A inspiring idea B and I move on.

Everything is borrowed and adapted...that's life...but in Mac World apparently all ideas aren't supposed to inspire other ideas.
post #44 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

Certainly it's tragic, but "strange?" This reminds one of nothing so much as Bush Senior's delighted surprise at encountering his first supermarket scanner.

Some of us live in a nation where the overwhelming majority of brilliant, creative men in many fields died of a plague in a single decade. "Strange?" The tragic death of promising men in the prime of life was the norm for more than half my life and I've attended more funerals than all other social occasions combined.

For me, the ultimately irony is that Jobs gay replacement is nonetheless little more than a driven bean counter.

Reading this, I hope you'll forgive me my bitterness. I wish I was able to forget what was lost. I have good days and bad days; this is obviously one of the latter.

rbryanh, I will forgive you your bitterness, while also saying I try to not post publicly when I have those days. I take a walk instead. We all miss Steve.

I would not characterize Cook as little more than a 'bean counter'. Having worked in a number of different fields, I can say that one of the most overlooked and maybe least understood elements of any venture is capacity management. I've had managers in my face telling me how little they care about licenses, or BTUs, or staffing. But from swizzle sticks in the break room to the number of servers tagged for tech refresh each quarter, it all matters when it comes to getting your product out the door. You may infer this has been my work for many years. When you get to a certain point in this career, one's success lies in the accuracy of determining and reporting the consequences of failing to act on supplying the elements needed to deliver the products. One's grasp of the basic but elementary need of dollars and cents should have been mastered long ago. That Apple has amassed more than USD $80B in cash and liquid assets tells me Apple mastered that skill remarkably well.
post #45 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

I certainly have no facts to dispute what you said, however LONG after Bill Gates was given a version of Mac software to begin developing the predecessor to Excel for the Mac; Multiplan, and months after the Macintosh was put on the market, I purchased my Mac 128K and it was running Mac OS version 1.1g.

As an aside, MultiPlan and Mac OS fit on a single 400K floppy. It's been too long to remember if MS Word 1.0 had Mac OS on the 400k floppy it came on.

Man, how bloatware has changed things since.

I am probably just being picky here, but it wasn't called MacOS until (if memory serves) version 7.0, when the clones came out. Before that it was just Macintosh.

I still have some of those original floppies and and can still conjure up the unique sound of the 400k drives in my mind.
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post #46 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Let's take a vote: repeating this exhausted, endlessly refuted chestnut should be sufficient grounds for immediate, permanent ban, in that it suggests the kind of profound and willful ignorance that can only lead to tears.

I wholeheartedly agree.

BTW....Thank you for saying that before I fired back at dasanman69....and....get permanently banned from AI.

Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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post #47 of 126
"it was strange to have someone as "vibrant" as Jobs die so young"

Fact: more than 30 million people (mostly kids) die each year of hunger worldwide.

Is that strange then as well?
post #48 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

It hasn't been fully refuted as I've heard many stories suggesting both things with the same level of clarity (and evidence) so I simply discount it as the usual and time honored tradition of idea A inspiring idea B and I move on.

Everything is borrowed and adapted...that's life...but in Mac World apparently all ideas aren't supposed to inspire other ideas.

Adaptions are expected to lead to new innovations. My main complaint about Windows 95 (Microsoft's first real effort to compete with the Mac) wasn't so much that it ripped anything off from Apple, but that after eleven years of effort, all Microsoft could manage was a pale imitation of the Mac and nothing even arguably new. From that point on I have harbored the opinion that Microsoft is one of the most colossal wastes of resources in human history. Sadly, I've found little evidence to refute that theory since that time.
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post #49 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

It hasn't been fully refuted as I've heard many stories suggesting both things with the same level of clarity (and evidence) so I simply discount it as the usual and time honored tradition of idea A inspiring idea B and I move on.

Everything is borrowed and adapted...that's life...but in Mac World apparently all ideas aren't supposed to inspire other ideas.

I don't know of anyone who claims that the Xerox PARC work didn't influence the eventual Mac OS, it's the (oft repeated) use of the world "stole" that gets my dander up.

But take it from the horse's mouth-- a Xerox employee recounts the visits by Apple.

As he says, there was a deal signed for access to technology, so "stole" is simply factually untrue. Moreover, as he says, Apple saw "1%" of the Xerox technology, but "it was enough" to get the Mac team (and especially Jobs) fired up about the idea of a mouse driven, GUI based computer.

As Andy Herzfeld (one of the original Mac designers) recounts elsewhere, beyond the general notions of a mouse driven graphical user interface there are a great many significant differences between what they saw at Xerox and the nascent Mac OS, as one would expect given the circumstances of general inspiration.

Amusing in that the same folks that insist they can't see any connection between Samsung's cookie cutter hardware and Apple's iOS devices will forever claim (probably without any specific knowledge of what actually went down) that Apple "stole" the entire basis of the Mac. There's a weird cottage industry around denying any innovation or authorship to Apple while simultaneously insisting that their influence on the consumer electronic industry is illusory, since everything was always invented already.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #50 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

you're a paranoid person...

Maybe.
post #51 of 126
According to the (late) Jef Raskin, he made the arrangement for Steve and Co. to visit Xerox PARC in order to get him behind the Mac project, which Raskin was then managing. Steve got so excited by what he saw at Xerox that he took over the Mac project and kicked Raskin out. A great part of the creative art is knowing when something is good.
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post #52 of 126
To Bill & Steve. They both have accomplished much in their respective lifetime for the technology industry. I appreciate Bill's comments "There was no peace to make. We were not at war,".
post #53 of 126
Geeze some people really need to give the whole Windows is a copy of Mac a rest. A lot of Windows is copied of Mac and a lot of Mac is copied of Windows. Even more of both comes from other companies. It's fairly hard to name an awesome feature of either from the last decade that wasn't availiable as a plug in made by someone else before appearing in the products. But that's the nature of the business. Developers move from one company to another and take there ideas and experiance with them. All those software companies located near to each other share ideas in the pub, and just read in Steves biography how many companies he visited and got shown products that ultimately inspired ideas for his own.

End of the day, both were great businessmen. SJ was more of an artist that recognised ideas and made them beautiful. BG was more of a businessman that recognised ideas and new how to make money out of them.
post #54 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

This is the first time I agree with you.

This is a historical moment, truly.


Gates = Great person, despicable businessman.

Jobs = Despicable person, great businessman.


That is well very well said

Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

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Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

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post #55 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

It would have put him in a better light if years down the road Steve's wife or someone else in the family mentioned this. Bill feeling the need to tell this seems weird and a little creepy.

Weird, creepy, and perfectly in character. He really, really, really wants people to love him.
post #56 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Geeze some people really need to give the whole Windows is a copy of Mac a rest.

So ignore the truth?

Quote:
A lot of Windows is copied of Mac and a lot of Mac is copied of Windows.

The difference here being that Windows wouldn't exist without Mac OS.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #57 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I don't know of anyone who claims that the Xerox PARC work didn't influence the eventual Mac OS, it's the (oft repeated) use of the world "stole" that gets my dander up.

But take it from the horse's mouth-- a Xerox employee recounts the visits by Apple.

As he says, there was a deal signed for access to technology, so "stole" is simply factually untrue. Moreover, as he says, Apple saw "1%" of the Xerox technology, but "it was enough" to get the Mac team (and especially Jobs) fired up about the idea of a mouse driven, GUI based computer.

As Andy Herzfeld (one of the original Mac designers) recounts elsewhere, beyond the general notions of a mouse driven graphical user interface there are a great many significant differences between what they saw at Xerox and the nascent Mac OS, as one would expect given the circumstances of general inspiration.

Amusing in that the same folks that insist they can't see any connection between Samsung's cookie cutter hardware and Apple's iOS devices will forever claim (probably without any specific knowledge of what actually went down) that Apple "stole" the entire basis of the Mac. There's a weird cottage industry around denying any innovation or authorship to Apple while simultaneously insisting that their influence on the consumer electronic industry is illusory, since everything was always invented already.

I don't believe in software theft by simply taking an idea and modifying it to be your own.

Others do...why do you think so many people say Android is a 1:1 copy of iOS despite them being as different as Mac OS and Xerox PARC?
post #58 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post




The difference here being that Windows wouldn't exist without Mac OS.

So?

I wouldn't exist without the random person who knocked my moms books out her hands causing my parents to meet as he helped her pick them up...does that random person deserve ALL the credit?


You seem upset that good ideas are borrowed and adapted...if that's so, I suggest you leave reality as such a thing is rampant in all parts in all areas all of the time.
post #59 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Adaptions are expected to lead to new innovations. My main complaint about Windows 95 (Microsoft's first real effort to compete with the Mac) wasn't so much that it ripped anything off from Apple, but that after eleven years of effort, all Microsoft could manage was a pale imitation of the Mac and nothing even arguably new. From that point on I have harbored the opinion that Microsoft is one of the most colossal wastes of resources in human history. Sadly, I've found little evidence to refute that theory since that time.

I used Macs and Windows PCs at that point in my life (granted I was 12) and I could never stand Macs really...While they were smoother overall and less prone to BS I feel the Windows has a better file browsing system and having the menu bar on top of each separate app is lightyears more useful than the finder bar IMO....

I feel that where Mac really wins is the attention to detail and the general cohesiveness of the system...it's fluid and everything looks like it belongs pleasing the eye as well. That combined with the fact that they are both good OSes (now I'm up to Windows 7 and OSX in my thoughts btw) puts Mac in the lead to a lot of people.

I'm simply grandfathered in, so to speak, to the menu bars and taskbar and the file browsing in Windows...but looking at Windows 8 if, after trying it, it doesn't appeal to me I may have to make my work PC experience (Mac) my home PC experience.
post #60 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Let's take a vote: repeating this exhausted, endlessly refuted chestnut should be sufficient grounds for immediate, permanent ban, in that it suggests the kind of profound and willful ignorance that can only lead to tears.

Well I could've said "stole from Xerox" which we know is not true. Nothing wrong with swindling, we all try to do that.
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post #61 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So ignore the truth?



The difference here being that Windows wouldn't exist without Mac OS.

So would you be happy if the only computers and OS that existed was MACs?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #62 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by umrk_lab View Post

Let's wait for an in depth Bill Gates biography, on which he would have absolutely no control whatsoever, to count the sins on both sides.

Let us hope Gates doesn't use somebody as talentless as Isaacson. Good thing Jobs never read his own.
post #63 of 126
Two giants in the tech industry and they're still writing letters...
Interesting.
post #64 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

It hasn't been fully refuted as I've heard many stories suggesting both things with the same level of clarity (and evidence) so I simply discount it as the usual and time honored tradition of idea A inspiring idea B and I move on.

Everything is borrowed and adapted...that's life...but in Mac World apparently all ideas aren't supposed to inspire other ideas.

Well, no is has been utterly refuted, just as it is incontrovertably established that Android is a cheap, cheesy knockoff of iOS, and that Samsung is copying Apple's phone and tablet designs, just as they copied others designs before that. But, there will always be people like you who will claim that things that are proven aren't.
post #65 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

So would you be happy if the only computers and OS that existed was MACs?

The reality is Microsoft blindly copied the Mac OS, much like Google is doing today with iOS. The interesting thing is Microsoft in the phone arena has actually come up with its own ideas for its new Mobile OS. I'd like to see more of the new Microsoft.
post #66 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by mellott124 View Post

Two giants in the tech industry and they're still writing letters...
Interesting.

2 reasons I'd guess:

1. secrecy

2. intimacy

... in that order.
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post #67 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Let's take a vote: repeating this exhausted, endlessly refuted chestnut should be sufficient grounds for immediate, permanent ban, in that it suggests the kind of profound and willful ignorance that can only lead to tears.

Where do I vote? I'm in. Garbage like this only serves to troll and derail threads. Since most forums and comments section on the internet are filled with nothing but Apple-bashing, yes, even apple fan sites, this is the only site I know of that has so far escaped that to some degree. I'm all for banning anyone who willfully tries to stir up shit. There's a billion other forums where they can do that and be applauded. But please, let's maintain a higher level of discourse here, and at least keep this place from becoming an Apple bash-fest.
post #68 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

This is the first time I agree with you.

This is a historical moment, truly.


Gates = Great person, despicable businessman.

Jobs = Despicable person, great businessman.

If being a despicable businessman makes me the most wealthy person in the world (only reaso he isn't is because of his charities), then I hope I too can be that despicable.

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post #69 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

I don't believe in software theft by simply taking an idea and modifying it to be your own.

Others do...why do you think so many people say Android is a 1:1 copy of iOS despite them being as different as Mac OS and Xerox PARC?

Apple did something significantly different that Google. The concept of a GUI predated Xerox. The first significant GUI work started at the Stanford Institute of Research and was lead by a guy named Douglas Engelbart. He was the same guy credited with creating the first mouse. Many of his students later went to work at PARC, and other places, like Apple. Before Apple's team visiting Xerox, there were people already interested at Apple in GUIs. The plan was to get Jobs on Board with the idea. That is how the whole Xerox visit was hatched. To inspire Jobs.

Apple gave Xerox 100, 000 pre IP shares of Apple stock just for Apple to be able to take a tour of the research facilities. Split adjusted that equates to 800, 000 shares of Apple stock today. So, here is the first place Apple and Google differ. Apple actually paid Xerox for the privilege of checking out the Xerox goodies to essentially inspire Jobs. Apple also paid Engelbart $40, 000 for a license to use his mouse.

The second place where Apple and Google differ, is Apple didn't copy Xerox at all. Xerox's GUI was running on an expensive mainframe computer. Apple did not get to look at the underlying code. The Xerox Star was the product Xerox actually shipped. It cost $75, 000 dollars. Apple's system cost about $2, 500. So, Apple's engineers essentially figured out how to create a GUI from scratch. Google on the other hand 1) had inside access to Apple's plans (via Eric what's his name), 2) didn't pay Apple squat, 3) stole Java from Sun Microsystems (so it wouldn't have to spend years (like Apple) writing the underlying Code), and 4) did this to compete directly with Apple (Apple never competed with Xerox as Xerox never brought a consumer version of its product to market).
post #70 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

"it was strange to have someone as "vibrant" as Jobs die so young"

Fact: more than 30 million people (mostly kids) die each year of hunger worldwide.

Is that strange then as well?

I never understand the point of these posts. Yes, I think we're all aware that people die everyday. Many, many people, old and young. You know why Steve's death was 'strange' for me? Because I've watched every single one of his keynotes for the past 15 years- many of them live. It's because I absolutely loved the company he built, the vision he had, and the philosophy he instilled. To me, there was noone like him in the field, and in general. Obviously I felt a personal connection with him- even though I never met him. I use and love so many of the products he personally envisioned and made into reality. I benefit everyday from the innovations both directly and indirectly attributed to him. This sentiment was echoed millions of times after his death. So yeah, I can also see why it was strange for BG, because of the relationship and the history they had. It's not everyday there's such a high profile death of someone at the peak of his career, the CEO of one of the most loved companies of the planet, that had such an effect on soe many people in such a tragic way. Stop trying to be obtuse and pretending you dont understand the strange bit.

You know how it goes. 'The death of one person is a tragedy. The death of a thousand is a statistic' or whatever. I can't get choked up about ramdom children whom I've never seen dying. I can only be affected by people I know, or feel I know. As the case with most human beings.
post #71 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacInsider2 View Post

MS Office

Built on the backs of WordPerfect and 123. Actually, thats not fair - Excel was and is pretty good, especially compared to 123. Then again it was birthed in the Mac division

Quote:
Exchange

Exchange? Please! Until 2010, Exchange was a complete house of cards. Now it's just mostly a house of cards. Don't sneeze!

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NT

Screwed over IBM with OS/2...

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Win 2k

Active Directory still can't do 1/2 of what Network Directory Services could do in the late 90's. If Novell would have had the balls to release NDS for NT as a separate product that didn't require Netware at that one Comdex (one of the last Comdex's I attended) the world would be a different place indeed...

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Back office

Has evolved into a really nice product with SBS 2011, but the original offering was just a bunch of products thrown together in a bundle that got you a slight price advantage.

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web browsers

Convicted of illegally starving out the competition - nice!

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smart phones

Windows mobile sucked! The web browser was completely unusable. WAP was a total joke! I paid for smartphone data for another 7 months before my contract expired when the first iPhone was released. Stupidest waist of money ever! I would have been WAY ahead if I had canceled, happily paid the termination fee and ditched that flaming pile of poo that was the Treo.

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were all great products born from the 1990s without Apple being a leading force

They were all products. Great, I wold not use. I would go with "successful due to lack of better alternatives"

Guess what - in the face of better alternatives, MS is floundering pretty badly!

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Please don't flame me. I am a big apple fan, own multiple iphones, and converted multiple people to Macbooks from Windoze :P

Nothing to flame over but your memories of history is pretty out there...
post #72 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

No such product as "Mac OS 1.0" ever existed and nothing was ever "stolen." In fact Microsoft had a license from Apple that gave them a lot of cover to develop Windows. The way they got the license was typical high-handedness from Gates, but he got it just the same.

It wasn't stolen, but it was given away - by Scully when Steve was out.

The comment at the launch of the iPhone - the "And we have patented it" - was aimed right at that moment in time.

Squarely.
post #73 of 126
Like most characterizations, all this is really shades of gray. I was impressed with Bill recently, because I thought he had the best quote when Steve passed away. Bill has found another niche in life with his philanthropy, which is insanely great. I think Steve may have appreciated Bill's philanthropy as much as anything Bill did in the computer industry.
post #74 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Apple gave Xerox 100, 000 pre IP shares of Apple stock just for Apple to be able to take a tour of the research facilities. Split adjusted that equates to 800, 000 shares of Apple stock today. So, here is the first place Apple and Google differ. Apple actually paid Xerox for the privilege of checking out the Xerox goodies to essentially inspire Jobs. Apple also paid Engelbart $40, 000 for a license to use his mouse.

I don't know about Apple paying Englebart anything (never heard that story) but I'm pretty sure nobody can give away pre-IPO shares, since at that point they don't actually exist. What they can do is give them an opportunity to buy shares at the pre-IPO price, which is a deal that few get. Usually the buy-in minimum is $1 million. This is probably what happened. Did Xerox take advantage of this opportunity? I don't know, never heard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

It wasn't stolen, but it was given away - by Scully when Steve was out.

The comment at the launch of the iPhone - the "And we have patented it" - was aimed right at that moment in time.

Squarely.

In a way. Microsoft had Apple over a barrel in 1985 and used that leverage to the max. It was a classic Bill Gates take no prisoners, I'm your partner and your worst enemy combined, sort of tactic.
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post #75 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

So would you be happy if the only computers and OS that existed was MACs?

I would be happy if the only computers that existed ran OS' that were from UNIQUE SOURCES. I would be happy if these OS' made the greatest possible effort to open the same files (so basically the world we have now; standardized media, document, etc. files) for compatibility within and without their various ecosystems around the world. I would be happy if these OS' competed in functionality, usability, and tightness/lightness of code WITHOUT stealing implementations from each other.

License them? Sure! Say we had four big OS', each with about a quarter of the market. One has an exceptionally better GUI than the rest and would dominate because of it. They should WANT to license that out to the others, specifically because one of the others has a much cleaner file system and yet another one takes advantage of better multitasking, or some such.

Rather than a duopoly, necessarily, I would have wanted a few more big operating systems. Not hundreds. Not dozens. Not even ten. But more than two. Right now we have The One That Everyone Uses Because They've Always Used It. It has tweaks out the wazoo but is only good because everyone has always used it. And we have The One You Use When You're Fed Up With That Other One. Less tweaking, but a better UI and a much smaller hill to climb if it's your first computer.

We should have greater shades than that. And no, the *NIX crowd isn't a solution. They're fine for a back-end, but they're not a solution.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #76 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Let's take a vote: repeating this exhausted, endlessly refuted chestnut should be sufficient grounds for immediate, permanent ban, in that it suggests the kind of profound and willful ignorance that can only lead to tears.

I second this motion, as long as there is also agreement to stop beating the dead horse that Microsoft completely ripped off Apple to create Windows.
post #77 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I don't know about Apple paying Englebart anything (never heard that story) but I'm pretty sure nobody can give away pre-IPO shares, since at that point they don't actually exist. What they can do is give them an opportunity to buy shares at the pre-IPO price, which is a deal that few get. Usually the buy-in minimum is $1 million. This is probably what happened. Did Xerox take advantage of this opportunity? I don't know, never heard.



In a way. Microsoft had Apple over a barrel in 1985 and used that leverage to the max. It was a classic Bill Gates take no prisoners, I'm your partner and your worst enemy combined, sort of tactic.

Xerox bought exactly $1M worth of Apple shares before the IPO - 100k shares at $10 ea. They sold almost immediately after the IPO and made $16M profit.

This transaction did not grant Apple rights to any IP. Instead, what Xerox gave Apple was access to the technology - see it work and, to the extent Xerox engineers were willing, see the underpinnings. What many people have forgotten is that Xerox sued Apple, claiming that the Mac stole the look and feel of the Star.
post #78 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

What many people have forgotten is that Xerox sued Apple, claiming that the Mac stole the look and feel of the Star.

... and how did that work out for them?
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post #79 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... and how did that work out for them?

It didn't. In fact, if I am not mistaken, the case was tossed out for legal reasons and was never tried. But I'm Just mentioning it to clarify facts, specifically to dispel the notion that Xerox traded IP for Apple shares.
post #80 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Well, Steve made great products. Bill made great copies.

Other than the lying to the creator of DOS to get an improbable discount and the theft of Mac OS 1.0 to make Windows and stagnate the industry for twenty years, Bill was a decent guy.

I DO agree that he's a good person, particularly with the things he has done since Microsoft and plenty of stuff during. But the good in his life didn't come from his business. He was a very dishonorable businessman.

Just like the good in Steve's life came from his business. Incredible works that truly exemplify the Crazy Ones speech.

Steve and Bill were antitheses. Two poles of the same magnet. Bill's good came with people. Steve's good came with business. On the opposite fronts, they were quite despicable.

I wonder if it was only coincidence that they existed in the industry at the same time or if they had to exist to balance each other.

You really can go overboard with the copying charges. Tell me, who did Microsoft copy when they developed Word? Word had an enormous influence on graphic design and printing.
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AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Before he died, Steve Jobs kept a letter from Bill Gates by his bed