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Labor advocate challenges accuracy of NYT report on Apple, Foxconn

post #1 of 123
Thread Starter 
The non-profit organization Business for Social Responsibilty has published an open letter to The New York Times pointing out several inaccuracies and misleading statements in the publication's recent report that suggested Apple has ignored worker problems at manufacturing partner Foxconn.

The Times made waves last Wednesday with a profile of the "human costs" that go into the making of Apple's iPad. The report, which included quotes from former Apple executives and an anonymous consultant at BSR, alleged that the Cupertino, Calif., company was aware of and had ignored labor abuses at Foxconn factories.

Apple CEO Tim Cook reportedly responded to the allegations in an email to employees that called any claims that the company doesn't care about workers "patently false and offensive."

"We care about every worker in our worldwide supply chain. Any accident is deeply troubling, and any issue with working conditions is cause for concern," Cook is believed to have written.

BSR issued its own response to the article on Friday (via The Verge) by way of an open letter addressed to the publication's editors. The letter praised the Times for shining a light on "important supply chain issues," but it pointed out that several corrections the organization had sent to the publication after seeing an early version of the report had yet to be made.

"Unfortunately, the article mistakenly attributes several quotes to an unnamed “BSR consultant,” presenting a false impression that those views should be associated with BSR," wrote BSR President and CEO Aron Cramer.

According to the Times' report, the alleged consultant believed BSR "could have saved lives" if Apple had been willing to pressure Foxconn to implement better suicide counseling hotlines. The tipster claimed BSR had negotiated with Foxconn to install new hotlines but the manufacturer made last-minute demands that sunk the project.

Cramer challenged the credibility of the source, noting that "BSR does not believe that Apple has consistently disregarded its advice" about problems related to working conditions at its suppliers. He also said the Times' account of the hotline project "omits and obscures key facts," adding that there are "errors" in how the project was presented. For instance, Cramer noted that companies were actually specifically directed not to pressure suppliers throughout the project.

"BSR has provided paid advice to Apple concerning supply chain labor topics on two occasions, and in both cases, Apple has taken this advice and made efforts to act on it," Cramer wrote in a letter to the newspaper.

The executive also asked the publication to alter the article because it "misstates the views" of BSR. According to him, attributing the views of the consultant to BSR was a "serious misrepresentation" that should be changed.

"The narrative you present is an inaccurate picture of the work we have done with Apple, of the role Apple played in the worker hotline project, and of BSR’s views of Apple," Cramer wrote in his original letter to the Times.

Cramer noted on Friday that "some changes" had been made to the story as a result of his original letter, but he also pointed out that BSR believes "several important inaccuracies and misleading information remained in the story."

For its part, Apple has taken tangible steps to be more transparent about its supply chain. The company announced earlier this month that it had become the first technology company to join the Fair Labor Association. It also released for the first time a list of its suppliers.

Apple's supplier responsibility group performed 229 audits last year, an 80 percent increase from 2010, and shared the results in its annual report also published earlier this month.
post #2 of 123
It was a hit piece, plain and simple. Apple's earnings were through the roof and the story was waiting in the wings until after the quarterly report. Don't know who is behind a lot of these auspiciously timed "news" stories about Apple, but they always seem to hit when Apple is at a peak. Are people wanting to short the stock that badly?
post #3 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

It was a hit piece, plain and simple. Apple's earnings were through the roof and the story was waiting in the wings until after the quarterly report. Don't know who is behind a lot of these auspiciously timed "news" stories about Apple, but they always seem to hit when Apple is at a peak. Are people wanting to short the stock that badly?

In a word - Yes.
post #4 of 123
While I don't appreciate the blame seemingly placed squarely on Apple, this is hardly a rebuttal.
post #5 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

While I don't appreciate the blame seemingly placed squarely on Apple, this is hardly a rebuttal.

Why do you consider NYTs refusal to remove major inaccuracies from their hit piece on Apple (that they were made aware of prior to printing by the organization focused on worker rights and better social responsibility by businesses) to be hardly a rebuttal?

Try at least once in a while to put some support behind your lame flame posts....
post #6 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague View Post

Why do you consider NYTs refusal to remove major inaccuracies from their hit piece on Apple (that they were made aware of prior to printing by the organization focused on worker rights and better social responsibility by businesses) to be hardly a rebuttal?

Try at least once in a while to put some support behind your lame flame posts....

Flame post? Who or what did I flame?

Also I'm just saying the responses seem canned.
post #7 of 123
One sensational piece of labour news centred on Foxconn concerned the alleged threats made by one particular product team in the past week to commit mass suicide if their demands for improved pay and conditions were not met.

As the product involved a hugely popular gaming console sadly not associated with Apple, the story has mysteriously been swept under the carpet. This particular product vendor, though well known to be a customer of Foxconn, was not even mentioned in the NYT article that named several American and global vendors associated with the Chinese manufacturer.
post #8 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Flame post? Who or what did I flame?

Also I'm just saying the responses seem canned.

Calling the valid claims leveled against the NYT which rightfully calls into question their journalistic integrity "hardly a rebuttal" is inflammatory.

What about the response seemed canned?

This is the whole point about why your posts are so consistently panned by AI readers. You throw out meaningless phrases without any support or explanation (laughably in your most recent post in response to being called out for throwing out phrases without any support or explanation).

You could respond with "I think BSR's open letter to the NYT seemed canned or was hardly a rebuttal because...."
post #9 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague View Post

Calling the valid claims leveled against the NYT which rightfully calls into question their journalistic integrity "hardly a rebuttal" is inflammatory.

What about the response seemed canned?

This is the whole point about why your posts are so consistently panned by AI readers. You throw out meaningless phrases without any support or explanation (laughably in your most recent post in response to being called out for throwing out phrases without any support or explanation).

You could respond with "I think BSR's open letter to the NYT seemed canned or was hardly a rebuttal because...."

I had no intent to get into a discussion about it as my thoughts on the matter are that the complaints against Apple are bullshit.

I'm allowed to think a canned response is hardly a rebuttal without providing a thesis paper as to why.
post #10 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

I had no intent to get into a discussion about it as my thoughts on the matter are that the complaints against Apple are bullshit.

I'm allowed to think a canned response is hardly a rebuttal without providing a thesis paper as to why.

I don't agree with your opinion, but if we called out everyone who voiced one without backing it up, we'd never have time to talk about anything

When I read the article in the NYT, I caught several problems right away. It was sloppy and seemed to be unfairly targeting Apple.

I seem to recall Steve Jobs (The One True CEO) saying that NYT was the worlds greatest paper, or words to that effect. I guess he wouldn't feel that way anymore.
post #11 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

I had no intent to get into a discussion about it as my thoughts on the matter are that the complaints against Apple are bullshit.

I'm allowed to think a canned response is hardly a rebuttal without providing a thesis paper as to why.

Two or three sentences does not a thesis paper make.

You're allowed to think anything you want obviously. Unsupported thoughts while common place on many discussion forums do not actually contribute to rational discussion.
post #12 of 123
Contrary to popular belief, Apple is a needed commodity in China...enough said.
post #13 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by airmanchairman View Post

One sensational piece of labour news centred on Foxconn concerned the alleged threats made by one particular product team in the past week to commit mass suicide if their demands for improved pay and conditions were not met.

As the product involved a hugely popular gaming console sadly not associated with Apple, the story has mysteriously been swept under the carpet. This particular product vendor, though well known to be a customer of Foxconn, was not even mentioned in the NYT article that named several American and global vendors associated with the Chinese manufacturer.

Yup... MICROSOFT ... XBOX360 ... WORKERS WERE ACTUALLY ON THE ROOF THREATENING TO JUMP OFF. Not saying Apple is perfect, but this is pertinent too.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com...cturing-plant/

post #14 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

It was a hit piece, plain and simple. Apple's earnings were through the roof and the story was waiting in the wings until after the quarterly report. Don't know who is behind a lot of these auspiciously timed "news" stories about Apple, but they always seem to hit when Apple is at a peak. Are people wanting to short the stock that badly?

+1

Plus the piece fits the anti-China ideology that is the NYT's contribution to the continuation of Cold War economics still ensconced in DC.
post #15 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

It was a hit piece, plain and simple.

Nothing that the BSR said lets Apple off the hook. Nothing that the BSR said refutes any factual claims about working conditions.

Their corrections are minor. They are each beside the point of the article, which point concerned working conditions at Apple's suppliers.
post #16 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

While I don't appreciate the blame seemingly placed squarely on Apple, this is hardly a rebuttal.

Ya know, somehow I don't seem to have much sympathy for the brutalized chinese worker. Once again - interventionalism at work here. If the workers in the worker's paradise are being abused let them deal with it but in the meantime and since they've stolen our jobs, I plan to take full advantage. As the old saw goes "get while the getting's good."
post #17 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by airmanchairman View Post

One sensational piece of labour news centred on Foxconn concerned the alleged threats made by one particular product team in the past week to commit mass suicide if their demands for improved pay and conditions were not met.

Indeed. That incident involved more folks than the number of alleged "apple product" employees that actually jumped and yet where it is the mention of said incident or company in the article.

Where's the mentions of the cultural issues and how the Chinese government needs to step up.

Steve Jobs supposedly said something about how it's not Apple's responsibility to cure all the woes of this country (other major companies and the government need to step up also). Same in China.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #18 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Nothing that the BSR said lets Apple off the hook. Nothing that the BSR said refutes any factual claims about working conditions.

Their corrections are minor. They are each beside the point of the article, which point concerned working conditions at Apple's suppliers.

You presume that Apple needs to be let off a hook which I think a lot of people would disagree with. I think Apple is doing the right thing. If they left China all together then the workers would actually be much worse off. You can't change the world in a day. I'd say they've taken a route that is kind of like union contracts (though in America the unions are useless, worse than evil, and a significant reason why all the jobs left) each time a contract is up as you negotiate the next one you ask for something more. I believe the records show that Apple is following such a path to improve labor and environmental conditions at its suppliers.

I don't think anyone would claim that Apple is doing charity work or somehow are making sacrifices for those workers, but they are trying to ensure that there isn't child labor and that salary and work conditions continue to improve.

Everyone who is calling out "slave labor" in response to these NYT articles obviously doesn't know what slave labor actually was/is.

By the way, is a Zither Zather Zuzz a sibling of Dr. Suess's Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz?
post #19 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

While I don't appreciate the blame seemingly placed squarely on Apple, this is hardly a rebuttal.

When their major source said it trie to privately correct the inaccurate major assumption of the stry, what would you call it? As is all too common for NYT lately, they simply disregarded te facts. You are mr likely to get ethical journalism from any random blog.
post #20 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Nothing that the BSR said lets Apple off the hook. Nothing that the BSR said refutes any factual claims about working conditions.

Their corrections are minor. They are each beside the point of the article, which point concerned working conditions at Apple's suppliers.

The major assertion of h NYT article ws not the conditions, that is not even knew. The assertion was that Apple did not car and ignored their advisors. BSR clearly disputes both those points and did so before NYT editors decide clicks bet journalism.
post #21 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

It was a hit piece, plain and simple. Apple's earnings were through the roof and the story was waiting in the wings until after the quarterly report. Don't know who is behind a lot of these auspiciously timed "news" stories about Apple, but they always seem to hit when Apple is at a peak. Are people wanting to short the stock that badly?

The timing wouldn't have shorted the stock because the news of their earnings caused it to jump. IF that was there intention then they would have released it on a day when the stock was naturally down to make it drop even further. I think the timing was more likely set to ride the increased mindshare into more page hits and ad clicks from either a negative or positive earnings release.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #22 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

I had no intent to get into a discussion about it as my thoughts on the matter are that the complaints against Apple are bullshit.

I'm allowed to think a canned response is hardly a rebuttal without providing a thesis paper as to why.

You posted in a discussion forum on the topic. Odd move if you did not want to enter into a discussion. Are you being forced to act against your will? Blink 3 times if w should call 911.
post #23 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post

You posted in a discussion forum on the topic. Odd move if you did not want to enter into a discussion. Are you being forced to act against your will? Blink 3 times if w should call 911.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #24 of 123
NY Times article highlights the dangers of 1. being proactive about labor conditions and 2. making the actions and progress public. Similar to Apple's work on environment, criticism is intended to take Apple to task for not doing anything, not enough, or worst merely being hypocritical.

I can understand Cook's being upset regarding the reporting on Apple's efforts [unique in the industry] as if Apple is doing the "blood diamond game." Selling products with near utter and certainly hypocritical indifference to the working conditions of its supply chain.

Can and should things be improved, certainly, but it would more useful to require all US [and other major companies] doing business in China to collectively get the level Apple is at. This will drive change, Apple albeit big, is small potatoes in the huge Asian Supply chain.

Try to find any product in Walmart, Target, Sears, and Amazon that is NOT manufactured in China or Asia. Rather than celebrating Apple's leading the charge to improve the supply chain, it gets pilloried for its leadership in this regard.

The other sub-plot that this disregard is a major factor in why Apple [and other] products are not made in the US. Again false, the supply chain is a complex web of companies [ask any VC regarding IT limited to Silicon Valley, 128 beltway, and perhaps one or two others in the US].

If we were so hot to trot on getting American manufacturing running we would open the flood gates for immigrants to build the foundation of a manufacturing renaissance that could support an entire pyramid of good paying jobs from workers to supervisors to white color workers.

Again, NYTimes had a lost opportunity to make visible the challenge and opportunities.
post #25 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague View Post

You presume that Apple needs to be let off a hook which I think a lot of people would disagree with. I think Apple is doing the right thing. If they left China all together then the workers would actually be much worse off. You can't change the world in a day. I'd say they've taken a route that is kind of like union contracts (though in America the unions are useless, worse than evil, and a significant reason why all the jobs left) each time a contract is up as you negotiate the next one you ask for something more. I believe the records show that Apple is following such a path to improve labor and environmental conditions at its suppliers.

I don't think anyone would claim that Apple is doing charity work or somehow are making sacrifices for those workers, but they are trying to ensure that there isn't child labor and that salary and work conditions continue to improve.

Everyone who is calling out "slave labor" in response to these NYT articles obviously doesn't know what slave labor actually was/is.

By the way, is a Zither Zather Zuzz a sibling of Dr. Suess's Zizzer-Zazzer-Zuzz?

Although unions have flaws, nothing is perfect.
The alternative is what you have in China.
$12 per day wages, 20 hour work days, deplorable conditions, and being roused from your sleep at 2am to start production.
Basically, a step above slave labor.
But if you truly believe decent paying jobs would stay right here in America if we could produce it cheaper, look at the earnings of corporations. How much is too much at the expense of workers?
It will never be enough. Greed begets more greed...
post #26 of 123
The New York Times lies!? What a shock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayson_Blair
post #27 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by angryshortguy View Post

...... being roused from your sleep at 2am to start production. Basically, a step above slave labor.
.

Have you heard of night shifts? Do you know that it is allowed in the US?
post #28 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

While I don't appreciate the blame seemingly placed squarely on Apple, this is hardly a rebuttal.

No? The Times' main source said that the Times reporting was wrong and that Apple actually WAS proactive and fixed the problems that were identified. If that's not a rebuttal, what is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Flame post? Who or what did I flame?

Also I'm just saying the responses seem canned.

No more than the attacks from the Apple haters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Yup... MICROSOFT ... XBOX360 ... WORKERS WERE ACTUALLY ON THE ROOF THREATENING TO JUMP OFF. Not saying Apple is perfect, but this is pertinent too.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com...cturing-plant/

But Microsoft didn't just report record-breaking profits, so a Times hit piece wouldn't have been as effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Nothing that the BSR said lets Apple off the hook. Nothing that the BSR said refutes any factual claims about working conditions.

Their corrections are minor. They are each beside the point of the article, which point concerned working conditions at Apple's suppliers.

Absolutely wrong. The Times claimed that Apple didn't care about working conditions and failed to address them. They used BSR as a source.

BSR said that Time quoted them inaccurately and that Apple DOES care about working conditions and has addressed every problem that was pointed out to them. It absolutely refutes the entire article.

There is absolutely no independent evidence that Apple's working conditions are sub-standard in any way. Sure, they have longer hours and lower pay than in the U.S., but the U.S. has longer hours than in Europe. Does that make all U.S. employers who use a 40 hour work week criminals?

Apple works to ensure that the subcontractors they use offer working conditions at least up to local standards - and far above in most cases. Apple doesn't have an obligation to do anything at all, but they are doing a great deal. They audited dozens of plants for compliance last year. How many did HP audit? Dell? Cisco?

Quote:
Originally Posted by angryshortguy View Post

Although unions have flaws, nothing is perfect.
The alternative is what you have in China.
$12 per day wages, 20 hour work days, deplorable conditions, and being roused from your sleep at 2am to start production.
Basically, a step above slave labor.

And Europeans think that Americans work far too many hours. Does that make American employers slave traders?

The fact is that conditions are Apple's subcontractor's plants are far about the national standard in China - and people are begging to get in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by angryshortguy View Post

But if you truly believe decent paying jobs would stay right here in America if we could produce it cheaper, look at the earnings of corporations. How much is too much at the expense of workers?
It will never be enough. Greed begets more greed...

So you're simply another close-minded bigot who refuses to consider the last 10,000 times that argument has been refuted. Figures.

Once again:
- Apple has a legal obligation to maximize shareholder return. If they brought production back to the U.S., they could face massive shareholder lawsuits.
- As Apple reported earlier, even if Apple wanted to bring production back to the U.S., the infrastructure and staffing needs could not be met. They obtain an enormous amount of flexibility by outsourcing.
- The cost difference would be immense. Not only would labor costs skyrocket, but you'd have massive increases in liability expenses, health and safety, environmental, income tax, and so on. And shipping costs would skyrocket.
The loss of U.S. manufacturing is not Apple's problem. It's a societal problem that one company can not address. Things like allowing China to manipulate its currency for the last few decades. Things like not insisting that products made overseas meet our environmental standards. Things like excessive corporate income tax rates in the U.S. Things like failure to produce enough technically trained personnel. Things like allowing crap quality (cadmium toys for McDonald's and urea in powdered milk) products.

If you want to see manufacturing jobs brought back to the U.S., write your legislature and ask them to put forth legislation to level the playing field. Then Apple (and others) could manufacture in the U.S. But under current conditions, it would be folly for that type of product.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #29 of 123
Poor labor work conditions is not uniquely China only. When we have large international corporations trying to exploit cheap labor, raw materials and focus only on their annual report to investors and what goes into their pockets... responsibility to the people that builds these products would be the last thing on their minds.

This is not to say, Apple don't care at all. I'm sure when you are operating in China, which is still under Communist ruling, you have to play by a different set of rules. I think the bottom line is this, Chinese manufacturers want as many contacts as they can get and for them to stay in business and be insanely profitable, they will "try" to conform to client demands for better working conditions BUT since Chinese government itself don't really care for human rights much, these manufacturers don't need to keep their promises either. As for Chinese migrate workers, they still earn more money than farming.

The catch-22 here is this, if American companies sends manufacturing jobs to India or South America or any 3rd world countries to reduce manufacturing cost, you'll see the same issues again. Hack, keeping these jobs in America is just as painful with union strikes every few years. Unless we have companies reverting to privately own and really care about the products they create from concept to finished products and their employees...labor issue will ALWAYS BE A PROBLEM regardless if NYT writes a bias article or not.

In short, I agree, NYT article is simply a hit piece. It's not really reporting a new or monstrous problem. It's been there for years, but Apple's insane earnings is making them an easy target for quick fame in journalism.
post #30 of 123
While I also tend to think the original NYT report was a bit of a hit piece, and perhaps unfairly singled out Apple, Apple and their subcontractors should not be given a pass on their poor labor practices either.

Here, I want to point out that to call "Business for Social Responsibility" a "Labor Advocate" in the headline of the story is misleading. I don't know the full background of this BSR, but it's clear it is an industry group that monitors it's own members' labor practices, hardly an independent "labor advocate". It's no surprise that it is saying that the NYT piece was overblown.

A bit of general background: back in the late 80s and early 90s when truly independent labor groups where making an issue of near slavery practices and child labor among subcontractors for big shoe makers and textile makers like Nike, the industry response was to set up their own, more friendly, "watchdog" groups to "balance" the criticism of the independent organizations.

I don't know how old the BSR is, or if it goes back that far, but it is clearly in that tradition. And they're not exactly trying to hide it with "business" in their name. It's funders and members are big companies. See this for more background:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...Responsibility

Please amend the headline of this story.
post #31 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

It was a hit piece, plain and simple. Apple's earnings were through the roof and the story was waiting in the wings until after the quarterly report. Don't know who is behind a lot of these auspiciously timed "news" stories about Apple, but they always seem to hit when Apple is at a peak. Are people wanting to short the stock that badly?

NY Times is disgusting. Can't believe anyone pays for that piece of trash.
post #32 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague View Post

If they left China all together then the workers would actually be much worse off.

I never suggested that Apple leave China altogether. That is not currently even possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague View Post

You can't change the world in a day.

That is no excuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague View Post


I don't think anyone would claim that Apple is doing charity work or somehow are making sacrifices for those workers, but they are trying to ensure that there isn't child labor and that salary and work conditions continue to improve.

I think the main point is that despite the efforts you refer to, much more can be done, and much more should be done.
post #33 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by angryshortguy View Post

Although unions have flaws, nothing is perfect.
The alternative is what you have in China.
$12 per day wages, 20 hour work days, deplorable conditions, and being roused from your sleep at 2am to start production.
Basically, a step above slave labor.
But if you truly believe decent paying jobs would stay right here in America if we could produce it cheaper, look at the earnings of corporations. How much is too much at the expense of workers?
It will never be enough. Greed begets more greed...

What is the average wage in China? What is the cost of living in China? Do they have to pay to sleep in the dorms or is that free? Do they have to pay for their company meals? None of that is addressed in the article. Young people coming in from the countryside farms wouldn't need to pay for an apartment if they're sleeping in the facility and they eat there too apparently.

If you know anyone whose been to China you would know that everything there is dirt cheap. $12 per day may not be enough for them to buy the iPhones that they build but it may be a very livable wage in China. On what grounds are you saying this isn't a decent wage?

Check average monthly salaries for numerous industries in China and you'll see the Foxconn employees are doing really well at $12 a day. http://www.worldsalaries.org/china.shtml

Tax accountants in the US probably work close to 20 hour days frequently leading up to April 15th, is that slave labor?

Again, you have no idea what slave labor is if you think this is "a step up" from it. People are on huge waiting lists for the opportunity to work at Foxconn. Please show us one person who has ever asked to be a slave laborer.
post #34 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

I never suggested that Apple leave China altogether. That is not currently even possible.



That is no excuse.



I think the main point is that despite the efforts you refer to, much more can be done, and much more should be done.


So you think Apple should stay in China but they should also turn China's government, business and culture on their heads overnight so that the Foxconn employees can have western standard salaries and matching working conditions?

Pie in the sky doesn't even begin to describe this kind of thinking.

At least some of us are trying to talk sense.
post #35 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


If you want to see manufacturing jobs brought back to the U.S., write your legislature and ask them to put forth legislation to level the playing field. Then Apple (and others) could manufacture in the U.S. But under current conditions, it would be folly for that type of product.

I don't think legislation will help. Have you noticed how many US politicians, governors, and top bureaucrats are lawyers? The current president also has a law degree. That's not the case in China. And which place in the world is getting things done faster and on a larger scale? China.

In China they build cities in a matter of months while it takes months for Washington D.C. to fix a subway escalator.
post #36 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague View Post

So you think Apple should stay in China but they should also turn China's government, business and culture on their heads overnight so that the Foxconn employees can have western standard salaries and matching working conditions?


I do not think that Apple can, or should, turn China's government, business and culture on their heads overnight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague View Post

At least some of us are trying to talk sense.

Attributing nonsense to people who disagree with it is hardly "talking sense".


I think that I was clear that (IMO) Apple can and should do more to change those suppliers who treat their workers in the manner that Foxcon treats its workers.

Please don't be insane.
post #37 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

Don't know who is behind a lot of these auspiciously timed "news" stories about Apple, but they always seem to hit when Apple is at a peak.

Isn't it obvious? The hedge fund managers paid for the reports.
post #38 of 123
It's interesting to compare the reporting on Apple to the recent incident at Foxconn involving the Xbox 360 manufacturing plant. I saw only one paper clearly report that it was related to Microsoft and that was the Seattle Times (it was the first report I saw and had all the details, including clearly specifying the Chinese source). The next set of news reports I saw on the story failed to mention Microsoft and soon after most stories were relating it to "Apple supplier Foxconn" with opinion pieces directly attacking Apple. Microsoft is almost never brought up in stories about Foxconn now, despite being directly related to the most recent incident there.

I think there's two things going on here: (1) Apple-related stories get more clicks so they naturally find ways to work Apple into a story and (2) Apple doesn't play nice with the media so the media is constantly looking for ways to "punish" them. Microsoft is clearly better at managing the media than Apple is. They essentially closed that story down completely and it'll probably never be mentioned using their name again. Better yet, it gets brought up in every article about Apple without Microsoft's name being attached to it. I think this gives us a clue to what's really going on here: Apple doesn't play nice with the media, so the media "punishes" Apple. Companies that play nice don't get mentioned.
post #39 of 123
This is BSR's attempt for damage control and to keep its partnership going with Apple (a partnership doesnt have to end up with a profit) as much as it is to save its reputation.

As long as BSR is on the payroll of Apple, what ever statements that comes out of their mouths are not to be believed.

It is a conflict of interest.

They have an interest to get paid and to assist in the damage control of one of their clients (Apple in this case).

They will do what ever it is to make that happen.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #40 of 123
From the Verge article

Quote:
claims made by that anonymous source, and says that person is, in fact, not affiliated with BSR.

How does BSR know who the "anonymous" source is if he/she is anonymous?

This is like a company caught red handed by an anonymous whistle blower out rightly denying any involvement in a fraud scam.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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