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Court upholds ban of Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 in Germany on new grounds

post #1 of 48
Thread Starter 
A German appeals court on Tuesday sided with Apple in upholding an earlier ruling banning Samsung from selling the original versions of its Galaxy Tab 10.1 and 8.9 in Europe's biggest economy.

The decision by the Düsseldorf Higher Regional Court (DHRC) upholds a ruling from last September but does so based on Germany's unique unfair competition law rather than the earlier court's finding that Samsung committed a violation of a Community design.

As such, Apple won't have success replicating the decision in other European countries, according to legal analyst Florian Mueller, as Samsung succeeded in defeating design-right claims by Apple that could have contributed to a broader, more material ruling covering most of the European Union.

Tuesday's ruling applies to both the Galaxy Tab 10.1 and smaller GalaxyTab 8.9 but does not affect the GalaxyTab 10.1N -- a modified version of the infringing tablet that Samsung concocted in an attempt to bypass the German ban. That model remains on sale ahead of a formal ruling on the matter by the DHRC expected on February 9th.

Samsung is just one of several mobile device makers that Apple is fighting in courts across the globe over alleged intellectual property violations. It has also sued electronics maker in the United States, other parts of Europe, Australia, Japan and Korea.


Samsung's modified Galaxy Tab 10.1N seen on the left compared to the original model


For its part, Samsung fired back with counter-suits claiming Apple's devices infringe on three of its patents but has so far lost rulings on two of the three, with the final patent to be addressed in a March 2nd ruling.
post #2 of 48
they are doing the Germans a favor.
post #3 of 48
So what is their 'unique unfair competition law'?

Because I see it as the difference between selling an iPad 2 and an iPad. Because that's exactly what their designs are based on.

"But that's not what the lawsui"

Did I say I care about that? Was I talking about that at all? Not in the slightest. Take a look at the devices and you'll see the 10.1 and 10.1N are based on the iPad 2 and iPad, respectively.

Originally posted by Relic

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post #4 of 48
It's not enough to just get copycat tablets and phones banned in certain places.

I'd like to see Android shut down and taken out completely. Hopefully Oracle succeeds with their lawsuits soon. Android is all about being cheap, so the best way to hit them and their fanboys where it counts is to make Android too expensive for anybody to bother with it. Microsoft already gets money from many Android devices, if Oracle too can also hit them up for a considerable amount of money for each unit sold, then that will be a good thing indeed.
post #5 of 48
In other words it business as usual for Samsung in Germany. Just offer the 10.1N that's unaffected by the ban.
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post #6 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

It's not enough to just get copycat tablets and phones banned in certain places.

I'd like to see Android shut down and taken out completely. Hopefully Oracle succeeds with their lawsuits soon. Android is all about being cheap, so the best way to hit them and their fanboys where it counts is to make Android too expensive for anybody to bother with it. Microsoft already gets money from many Android devices, if Oracle too can also hit them up for a considerable amount of money for each unit sold, then that will be a good thing indeed.

That really serves no one. This will end with a several cross licensing deals and undisclosed $$$. And then life will go on.
post #7 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

That really serves no one. This will end with a several cross licensing deals and undisclosed $$$. And then life will go on.

In the end, it WOULD help everyone. Consumers benefit in the long run when companies innovate rather than simply copying.
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post #8 of 48
Android is popular in part be because the phones are cheap. With the tablet form factor prices start at $500 which changes everything. Quality suddenly matters and Android is at a huge disadvantage.

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post #9 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

It's not enough to just get copycat tablets and phones banned in certain places.

I'd like to see Android shut down and taken out completely. Hopefully Oracle succeeds with their lawsuits soon. Android is all about being cheap, so the best way to hit them and their fanboys where it counts is to make Android too expensive for anybody to bother with it. Microsoft already gets money from many Android devices, if Oracle too can also hit them up for a considerable amount of money for each unit sold, then that will be a good thing indeed.

I don't need them to fail to validate my choices. In fact, i hope they have a long and somewhat successful future, as that will keep Apple on the edge to improve and innovate, and perhaps supply some downward price pressure. Competition and choice can be a good thing, even if you don't chose the competition. (For example, not sure if we would have the choice of a free iPhone 3GS if it weren't for all the Android competition).
post #10 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

In the end, it WOULD help everyone. Consumers benefit in the long run when companies innovate rather than simply copying.

not sure how much "innovation" came out of Rambus's decade long lawsuits against memory makers (or NTP's against RIM). Yes, we also know that the patent system is so broken.
post #11 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I'd like to see Android shut down and taken out completely. .

You may get your wish if Apple wins their patent suit against the HTC

That said I don't want Android gone from the market. Apple needs other companies out there to lessen antitrust issues potentially popping up. I just want Android to play fair and smart. Stop taking design inspiration from Apple etc, create better software, deal with the malware issue. I think google made a huge mistake letting oems and such tinker under the hood

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post #12 of 48
wtf is unique unfair competition law? Does that mean RIM can start suing Apple, Samsung and other smartphone manufacturer?
post #13 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

In the end, it WOULD help everyone. Consumers benefit in the long run when companies innovate rather than simply copying.

Consumers benefit when there multiple serious players in the market. Right now it's really down to 2 and that already is unfortunate. Whining about copying at this point is like the RIAA whining about piracy. It's always existed and will continue to in the future. Those that innovate will be always be one step ahead of the game.
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post #14 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Consumers benefit when there multiple serious players in the market. Right now it's really down to 2 and that already is unfortunate. Whining about copying at this point is like the RIAA whining about piracy. It's always existed and will continue to in the future. Those that innovate will be always be one step ahead of the game.

No, it's not down to 2. There's still iOS, Android, Amazon (not technically Android), RIM (suffering, but not gone), Windows Mobile, Bada, and others.

If Android hadn't done so well by copying iOS, how do you know that RIM wouldn't be better off than it is today? Or Windows Mobile? Or Bada?

And I'm a long way past the "let the criminals continue to rob banks. Their children need to eat, too" mentality.
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post #15 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

In the end, it WOULD help everyone. Consumers benefit in the long run when companies innovate rather than simply copying.

But that assumes iOS serves everyone. Personally, I think it is, by far, the best mobile OS out there and ICS a distant 3rd. But for many, what Android offers is what they want.

So pass some $$$ around between company A and company B for licensing (yes it will make Android cost more. I have always guessed Android would end up costing between $15-$25 per handset and given Google only makes gross revenue of about $0.11/month/handset I see Android as a HUGE financial loss to Google in the long term) and life will go on and more people are served.
post #16 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Tuesday's ruling applies to both the Galaxy Tab 10.1 and smaller GalaxyTab 8.9 but does not affect the GalaxyTab 10.1N -- a modified version of the infringing tablet that Samsung concocted in an attempt to bypass the German ban.



How long until the release of the Samsung Galaxy Tab 8.9N?
post #17 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

So pass some $$$ around between company A and company B for licensing (yes it will make Android cost more. I have always guessed Android would end up costing between $15-$25 per handset and given Google only makes gross revenue of about $0.11/month/handset I see Android as a HUGE financial loss to Google in the long term) and life will go on and more people are served.

Android is not Google.

License fees would be paid by handset manufacturers.
post #18 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

In the end, it WOULD help everyone. Consumers benefit in the long run when companies innovate rather than simply copying.

I realize you'd like to think Android is a copy of iOS. It isn't. You either haven't used Android devices very much or you're not being honest if you can't see that. There's huge differences and no iOS user would confuse one with the other. While the shape of some Samsung devices have a resemblance to the comparable Apple device (as does some older packaging), Android itself does not.
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post #19 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

wtf is unique unfair competition law? Does that mean RIM can start suing Apple, Samsung and other smartphone manufacturer?

IMHO, the most likely reason would be what the court feels is misleading advertising, which is one part of Germany's Unfair Competition law. Another possibility is the court believing Samsung is trading on Apple's iPad reputation.

EDIT: I found a link to an explanation of the German law.
http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/literature/heidenreich.htm

Yes, it certainly is unique and broad. I'm not at all surprised that the rest of Europe hasn't bought in to it.
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post #20 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

No, it's not down to 2. There's still iOS, Android, Amazon (not technically Android), RIM (suffering, but not gone), Windows Mobile, Bada, and others.

If Android hadn't done so well by copying iOS, how do you know that RIM wouldn't be better off than it is today? Or Windows Mobile? Or Bada?


It's 2, Android and iOS. WP7 is a long long distance 3rd. RIM's relevance is declining by the second and the ecosystem is missing major development support.
I don't have to wonder. The free market determined Android is a better alternative to others. RIM can't give away Curve's and Playbooks on any carrier and still didn't help. If the emerging markets weren't still buying they'd be finished already.

If iOS hadn't done so well copying Android's notification system, I guess we'd still have blue pop ups. (I certainly don't fault them for it) Welcome to capitalism; compete, adapt, or die.
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post #21 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

In the end, it WOULD help everyone. Consumers benefit in the long run when companies innovate rather than simply copying.

Strangely the lawsuits generally seem to have very little to do with copying of the key features that originally made iOS unique (ie the touch based UI which is where Apple truly innovated). It mostly seems to be minor or obscure low level stuff like the Htc data detectors battle, with the original german design lawsuit being an exception.

BTW Companies copying does benefit consumers (which is why patents have limited timespans). It helps bring down costs so more consumers benefit. It also forces companies to keep innovating to stay ahead of the competition.

Apple's most affective answer to Android has not been lawsuits, but Siri. Keep innovating and you stay in the lead and make lots of money.
post #22 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

It's 2, Android and iOS. WP7 is a long long distance 3rd.

Oh, so you admit it's not two. Okay, glad we cleared that up.

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post #23 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

In other words it business as usual for Samsung in Germany. Just offer the 10.1N that's unaffected by the ban.

Samsung can't do that. Its a cultural thing "saving face".
post #24 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Oh, so you admit it's not two. Okay, glad we cleared that up.

Ha, hardly. Thanks for trolling me though.
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post #25 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Ha, hardly. Thanks for trolling me though.

No. Seriously. You said Windows Phone 7, and then you said 3rd. 3 is a number larger than 2. Ignoring, of course, the stuff that jragosta said.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #26 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No. Seriously. You said Windows Phone 7, and then you said 3rd. 3 is a number larger than 2. Ignoring, of course, the stuff that jragosta said.

20 people are in a free for all brawl. 17 go down quickly. An 18th goes down soon after that but is still wildly throwing haymakers from the groud affecting no ome. There are now two fighting neck and neck. Are there really 3 combatants?
post #27 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

20 people are in a free for all brawl. 17 go down quickly. An 18th goes down soon after that but is still wildly throwing haymakers from the groud affecting no ome. There are now two fighting neck and neck. Are there really 3 combatants?

If he's still officially in the fight, yeah, there are three combatants.

And that's not the state that Windows Phone 7 is in, anyway.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #28 of 48
I refuse to believe that Apple is THAT PERFECT and their iPad has the PERFECT form factor and screen diamensions that Samsung needs to copy them EXACTLY. Is Apple GOD? Did Apple ask GOD what the perfect tablet would look like? WHY would Samsung copy the iPad EXACTLY? Why can't Samsung make their tablet a little wider or taller or whatever. Apple cannot possibily be THAT GOOD, now can it?
post #29 of 48
I posit that there is a market for a galaxy tab 9.5, slotted between the 10.1 and 8.9.

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post #30 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by pflau View Post

I refuse to believe that Apple is THAT PERFECT and their iPad has the PERFECT form factor and screen diamensions that Samsung needs to copy them EXACTLY. Is Apple GOD? Did Apple ask GOD what the perfect tablet would look like? WHY would Samsung copy the iPad EXACTLY? Why can't Samsung make their tablet a little wider or taller or whatever. Apple cannot possibily be THAT GOOD, now can it?

Samsung has copied a lot of Apple's PHYSICAL features because they know Apple made those features popular. No one is saying that they were perfect; it's just what the market wants right now. Samsung is trying to jump on the "form it like Apple" train.
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post #31 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepro View Post

I don't need them to fail to validate my choices. In fact, i hope they have a long and somewhat successful future, as that will keep Apple on the edge to improve and innovate, and perhaps supply some downward price pressure. Competition and choice can be a good thing, even if you don't chose the competition. (For example, not sure if we would have the choice of a free iPhone 3GS if it weren't for all the Android competition).

Competition does not spur innovation. That's simply a myth unsupported by the facts. Innovation comes from vision and a burning desire to change the world, not from feature arms races, or, worse yet, a race to the bottom.
post #32 of 48
The German ban on the Galaxy Tab 10.1 and Galaxy Tab 8.9 is ridiculous. Only a moron would mistake a tablet with the Samsung logo on the front of it for an Apple iPad. Or maybe the German courts are assuming that Apple fanboys ARE morons. Hmmm...
post #33 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

The German ban on the Galaxy Tab 10.1 and Galaxy Tab 8.9 is ridiculous. Only a moron would mistake a tablet with the Samsung logo on the front of it for an Apple iPad. Or maybe the German courts are assuming that Apple fanboys ARE morons. Hmmm...

Samsung's own lawyers couldn't tell the difference. Thanks for using such insulting words, because it's that much more fun to turn it back on Samsung.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #34 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by pflau View Post

I refuse to believe that Apple is THAT PERFECT and their iPad has the PERFECT form factor and screen diamensions that Samsung needs to copy them EXACTLY. Is Apple GOD? Did Apple ask GOD what the perfect tablet would look like? WHY would Samsung copy the iPad EXACTLY? Why can't Samsung make their tablet a little wider or taller or whatever. Apple cannot possibily be THAT GOOD, now can it?

Samsung apparently thinks so since they had to make the Tab so close to the iPad that even their attorneys couldn't tell the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I posit that there is a market for a galaxy tab 9.5, slotted between the 10.1 and 8.9.

Sure there is. And I think they should make a 9.2 and a 9.8, as well.
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post #35 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Samsung's own lawyers couldn't tell the difference. Thanks for using such insulting words, because it's that much more fun to turn it back on Samsung.

The funniest thing about that is that although they look alike the Galaxy Tab is much more rectangular than the iPad.
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post #36 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

If he's still officially in the fight, yeah, there are three combatants.

And that's not the state that Windows Phone 7 is in, anyway.

Eh it was my weakest analogy yet.
post #37 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by pflau View Post

I refuse to believe that Apple is THAT PERFECT and their iPad has the PERFECT form factor and screen diamensions that Samsung needs to copy them EXACTLY. Is Apple GOD? Did Apple ask GOD what the perfect tablet would look like? WHY would Samsung copy the iPad EXACTLY? Why can't Samsung make their tablet a little wider or taller or whatever. Apple cannot possibily be THAT GOOD, now can it?

The screen size and form factor of every Samsung Tab is not like the iPad at all.
post #38 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

The screen size and form factor of every Samsung Tab is not like the iPad at all.

They were close enough for Samsung's legal council to not be able to differentiate them from iPads. In a courtroom. In front of the judge preceding over the case.
post #39 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Ferrari View Post

They were close enough for Samsung's legal council to not be able to differentiate them from iPads. In a courtroom. In front of the judge preceding over the case.

dude...don't be an idiot...I don't give a fuck what one person from Samsung's legal team couldn't do...he's a moron...good for him...

I know that any non blind person looking at a 16:9 sceen at any size would not mistake that with a 4:3 screen. The poster I replied to specifically said "EXACTLY" in this post
Quote:
I refuse to believe that Apple is THAT PERFECT and their iPad has the PERFECT form factor and screen diamensions that Samsung needs to copy them EXACTLY.

Form factor and Screen dimensions...the two obvious things that ANY Tab and the iPad have different. You cannot call 16:9 a copy of 4:3 without looking like a moron.
post #40 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Eh it was my weakest analogy yet.

He'd like to think that but I apparently missed all his strong analogies.
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