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Foxconn to build 5 new Brazilian factories to help make Apple products [u]

post #1 of 82
Thread Starter 
Apple product assembler Foxconn plans to build five additional factories in Brazil to help cater to demand iPads and other tablets, which are expected to combine for an annual run rate of nearly 400 million units within five years.

Folha.com says the news was revealed by São Paulo's Secretary of Planning and Development of the State, Julio Semeghini. He said the five factories, which are in addition to the one already believed to be turning out iPads and iPhones, will each staff roughly 1000 workers.

In addition to helping supply Apple with iPads, the factories will be tooled for notebook and general electronics production.

Officials from Foxconn and the Brazilian government will reportedly meet following the Chinese New Year to decide on where the factories will be built, but São Paulo is said to be pushing heavily for the investment.

Foxconn already receives tax breaks for producing tablets in the region. Last week, the Brazilian government approved tax reductions or exemptions that cleared the way for the company to begin producing iPads in the country.

The new Inter-Ministerial Decree 34 specifically states that companies investing in the research and development of keyboardless touchscreen tablets weighing less than 750 grams qualify for IPI (Excise Tax), PIS (Social Contribution Tax) and COFINS (Federal Contribution Tax) incentives.

Meanwhile, thousands of people reportedly lined the streets outside a labor agency located in the Chinese city of Zhengzhou last night hoping to land a job at one of Foxconn's local factories.


Thousands wait their turn at a Chinese labor agency in hopes of landing a job at Foxconn | Source M.I.C.gadget


The company is reportedly working with the city of Zhengzhou to double the size of the workforce at its facility there ahead of the next iPhone launch, recruiting an additional 100,000 employees.

Word of Foxconn's increased investment in Brazilian tablet production arrives on the heels of a report from market research firm NPD which predicts the worldwide tablet market to explode to 383.3 million units in 2017 as the portion of tablets purchased by customers in emerging markets increases.

Update: A Foxconn representative declined to confirm its Brazilian expansion plans to Economia, calling the report "pure speculation."
post #2 of 82
At this rate Foxcon will soon buy Apple
post #3 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

At this rate Foxcon will soon buy Apple

How? The other way around sounds more plausible, and even it would NEVER happen.

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #4 of 82
Now we'll get to hear people complaining that wage rates in Brazil are lower than the US and Apple is exploiting those poor Brazilians......
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #5 of 82
Go Foxconn! Scouring the world for cheap labor so my tech can cost less.
post #6 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Now we'll get to hear people complaining that wage rates in Brazil are lower than the US and Apple is exploiting those poor Brazilians......

I don't know for sure, but I don't think Brazil will allow the abuses seen in China. You can't dispute the Chinese abuses - you can argue that it's not all Apple's fault, and I agree with that.
post #7 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

How? The other way around sounds more plausible, and even it would NEVER happen.

How? Mr Foxconn walks into an Apple store with a big fat wallet and declares he likes the company so much he is buying it.
Oh, and for you... here's the [JOKE] tag. You can apply that to the previous post, too.
post #8 of 82
Ahh, the international free market. One serf workforce country undercutting another.
post #9 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

I don't know for sure, but I don't think Brazil will allow the abuses seen in China. You can't dispute the Chinese abuses - you can argue that it's not all Apple's fault, and I agree with that.

Hardly:
http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/e...ONDITIONS.html
Quote:
Even though children under 14 years of age are prohibited from working, it is estimated that 14 percent of all children between 10 and 13 work. Maternity benefits include a 90-day leave for mothers and a one-week leave for fathers. Racial discrimination is illegal, but still practiced by many businesses in Brazil. Non-white workers and women are often underpaid.

No doubt it's better than China, but the working conditions and wage rates are still far below the U.S. Since there has been so much complaining about wage rates and working conditions in China being below the U.S., I expect that it will continue with Brazil. Other than their maternity benefits, they are far behind the U.S. in almost every regard.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #10 of 82
One of the great ironies of the 21st century is that most of our marvelous hi-tech toys are made entirely by hand, in sweatshops, by desperate people whose pitiful wages can't purchase even one of the hugely profitable devices they make.

If you don't feel dirty, you aren't paying attention.
post #11 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

One of the great ironies of the 21st century is that most of our marvelous hi-tech toys are made entirely by hand, in sweatshops, by desperate people whose pitiful wages can't purchase even one of the hugely profitable devices they make.

If you don't feel dirty, you aren't paying attention.

Did you FAX this in or carrier pigeon?
post #12 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

One of the great ironies of the 21st century is that most of our marvelous hi-tech toys are made entirely by hand, in sweatshops, by desperate people whose pitiful wages can't purchase even one of the hugely profitable devices they make.

If you don't feel dirty, you aren't paying attention.

It's not really a 21st century phenomenon. In the 1860s cheap Chinese labor was used to build the first transcontinental railroad across the US. That railroad greatly increased economic efficiency and so will these iDevices.

"The more things change, the more they stay the same."
post #13 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

One of the great ironies of the 21st century is that most of our marvelous hi-tech toys are made entirely by hand, in sweatshops, by desperate people whose pitiful wages can't purchase even one of the hugely profitable devices they make.

If you don't feel dirty, you aren't paying attention.

Apple Foxconn workers make more money, commit suicide less, and have better overall satisfaction than the Chinese average. This talk is getting old.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #14 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

How? Mr Foxconn walks into an Apple store with a big fat wallet and declares he likes the company so much he is buying it.
Oh, and for you... here's the [JOKE] tag. You can apply that to the previous post, too.

So you are talking about a hostile take over bid and you think the majority of those that own Apple, i.e. the share holders, would agree? Just curious how you'd see this working in practice.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #15 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Hardly:
http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/e...ONDITIONS.html


No doubt it's better than China, but the working conditions and wage rates are still far below the U.S. Since there has been so much complaining about wage rates and working conditions in China being below the U.S., I expect that it will continue with Brazil. Other than their maternity benefits, they are far behind the U.S. in almost every regard.

Wage rates don't matter. What does matter is how many hours does someone have to work to afford a home or a refrigerator or food, etc.

Brazil was very smart. They told Apple to either build the products there or face huge import taxes. So Apple had no choice. In the U.S., we let companies like Apple do whatever they want. I don't want to criticize Apple too much because they are expanding the number of employees in the U.S. and most of the jobs are well-paying jobs. Even the retail jobs, which don't pay all that well, pay more than factory jobs would have if Apple had factories (whether directly or indirectly) in the U.S.

What does surprise me is that it's Foxconn who is building the Brazilian factory. I would have thought it would have been a Brazilian company.

My personal view, which I've expressed before is that ethical companies will build products close to the markets that they serve so that the people who buy the products get the benefits of the related factory jobs.

As for Apple, who I don't expect to change the policy of building in China (Brazil obviously excepted), they do need to insure that workers are treated decently with safety the primary consideration. Obviously, from that photo posted of Chinese job applicants, they want to work at Apple in spite of the reputed poor working conditions. But that's still no excuse for employees being exposed to toxic chemicals or subject to explosions caused by aluminum dust and the like. Apple may not own the factory per se, but they are going to take the hit to their reputation and brand when these things happen.
post #16 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Apple Foxconn workers make more money, commit suicide less, and have better overall satisfaction than the Chinese average. This talk is getting old.

Agreed. Those pictured above don't look like feudal peasants lining up for a job planting rice. It looks more like a university campus population to me
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #17 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

What does surprise me is that it's Foxconn who is building the Brazilian factory. I would have thought it would have been a Brazilian company.

Yeah... there must be ten Brazillian companies easily that could build a couple million iDevices a month without needing to rely on Foxcon's IP.

Sad reality is there are maybe 3-4 companies worldwide that can run this type of operation. It is a dangerous predicament, and I hope Apple can diversify around the problem within the next 5 years.

(No, it isn't going to bring jobs back to the US in any kind of number to be meaningful.)
post #18 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post

Ahh, the international free market. One serf workforce country undercutting another.

Capital flows to where it can most efficiently be deployed. That is the root cause of what we are seeing. The import tariffs imposed by Brazil likely distort the incentives.

If so, then Foxcon's decision is not completely the result of free market forces.
post #19 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Agreed. Those pictured above don't look like feudal peasants lining up for a job planting rice. It looks more like a university campus population to me

I hope the girl with the orange scarf builds my iPad 3. She looks a little bit eccentric and I like eccentric people.
post #20 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post

Yeah... there must be ten Brazillian companies easily that could build a couple million iDevices a month without needing to rely on Foxcon's IP.

Sad reality is there are maybe 3-4 companies worldwide that can run this type of operation. It is a dangerous predicament, and I hope Apple can diversify around the problem within the next 5 years.

(No, it isn't going to bring jobs back to the US in any kind of number to be meaningful.)


I'd agree Foxconn is pretty important to Apple's future. I would like to see that very rare manufacturing ability that Apple demands in a few more camps, if not owned by Apple themselves (or at least in their control).

RE your last comment: However, one could argue that Apple's phenomenal success is responsible for a ton of jobs directly and indirectly here in the USA.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #21 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I hope the girl with the orange scarf builds my iPad 3. She looks a little bit eccentric and I like eccentric people.

I was thinking she looked like there was more than Sprite in that bottle
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #22 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

I don't want to criticize Apple too much because they are expanding the number of employees in the U.S. and most of the jobs are well-paying jobs. Even the retail jobs, which don't pay all that well,

IIRC, the (vast?) majority of jobs at Apple are PBTC jobs at Apple stores. My guess is that they pay wages which do not allow employees to become middle class.


Edit:


Apple's latest filing shows the company had about 60,400 full-time employees and 2,900 temporary and contract workers. About two-thirds of those jobs are in the United States.

And most of those Apple employees are not high-paid engineering or manufacturing jobs -- 36,000 are in company's retail division.


http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/25/tech...source=cnn_bin
post #23 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

One of the great ironies of the 21st century is that most of our marvelous hi-tech toys are made entirely by hand, in sweatshops, by desperate people whose pitiful wages can't purchase even one of the hugely profitable devices they make.

If you don't feel dirty, you aren't paying attention.

Perhaps it's just a small difference, but these products are assembled by hand, not made by hand. The components themselves are typically made by robots.
post #24 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I was thinking she looked like there was more than Sprite in that bottle

LOL, in that case I hope she builds someone else's iPad 3.
post #25 of 82
The french only work 35 hours a week. So are we then slave labor if we compare ourselves to the French? Wages depend of cost of living. If we compare the salaries in NYC to those in Tokepa, is that slave labor in KS?
post #26 of 82
This is unrelated to this topic, but I keep earnings rumors of an Apple Super bowl ad that will announce the new Apple TV.
anyone has any news or leaks on this?

I have many AAPL LEAPS going on but I wont take any chance and load up FEB calls on friday just in case.
post #27 of 82
The only earnings rumor I heard was that aple made a **** load of money.
post #28 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

This is unrelated to this topic, but I keep earnings rumors of an Apple Super bowl ad that will announce the new Apple TV.
anyone has any news or leaks on this?

Apple? Announce a product with a commercial? That's not how they roll.

I've heard of a new Samsung Super Bowl ad that will show us just how much using Apple is like 1984 is, though.

Looking forward to it. At least that idea sounds original.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #29 of 82
They should build one in every right to work state and only hire workers that never were associated with a union. I can't believe that Brazil is turning out more engineers and tech works than us.
post #30 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

. it is estimated that 14 percent of all children between 10 and 13 work.

I don't get the issue with children working as such. The fortunate few in the so called "west" seem quite enraged by it. Curious thing that, I suppose they want the children to die, or perhaps be picked up by a pimp for sale.

Children working has always been the way, it is only a recent perversion of the "west" that children should sit around screaming out their wants, to be waited on and then end up kinda useless when they pretend to step out on their own, like to the mail box.

Now...

If the actual issue is "fair pay for fair work" (based on local cost of living vs hourly rate) then sure, but that has nothing to do with children and nothing to do with china or brazil exploiting people.

Cause in the glorious "west" people are under paid as well and exploited regardless of doing equal work based on age, how much was spent on their papers, time at employer. Worse, children are prevented from working and put at risk by being blocked from money in a society that makes it difficult to eat or sleep without it.
you only have freedom in choice when you know you have no choice
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you only have freedom in choice when you know you have no choice
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post #31 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Apple? Announce a product with a commercial? That's not how they roll.

I've heard of a new Samsung Super Bowl ad that will show us just how much using Apple is like 1984 is, though.

Looking forward to it. At least that idea sounds original.

Yep I heard about the Samsung ad, but Apple did announce the Mac with an ad at the superbowl.
post #32 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Yep I heard about the Samsung ad, but Apple did announce the Mac with an ad at the superbowl.

I remember them talking about it earlier. Could have sworn I saw an old keynote where they mention the Macintosh and how they have an ad for it coming up

At any rate, that's meaningless. Apple since 1996 is all that matters, and there hasn't been a commercial announcement since then.

Why would that make any sense, anyway?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #33 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I remember them talking about it earlier. Could have sworn I saw an old keynote where they mention the Macintosh and how they have an ad for it coming up…

At any rate, that's meaningless. Apple since 1996 is all that matters, and there hasn't been a commercial announcement since then.

Why would that make any sense, anyway?

Well, its only a rumor that pops up in financial forums. I will still play it with options just in case. Same goes for the shareholder meeting on FEB23, I will load up before the event in case they announce a dividend.

Apple is acting wierd this week, market have been going down and AAPL is still rising even after the big pop after earnings. Everyone is expecting a correction that never comes. Market Makers are fighting the rise and are trying to bring the stock down but they are losing. When the stock manipulators are losing something is going on. Large amound of cash is flowing into Apple. Its like the MM's are being played by a bigger player. Pretty scary stuff imo.
post #34 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

The french only work 35 hours a week. So are we then slave labor if we compare ourselves to the French? Wages depend of cost of living. If we compare the salaries in NYC to those in Tokepa, is that slave labor in KS?

From what I have heard, there's plenty of slave labor in NYC. And consider that a minimum wage job in NYC would not pay even for a small apartment, much less a family.
post #35 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

The french only work 35 hours a week. So are we then slave labor if we compare ourselves to the French? Wages depend of cost of living. If we compare the salaries in NYC to those in Tokepa, is that slave labor in KS?

Perhaps this sentence would be more accurate if you said "The french only work 35 hours a week - BY LAW". They are not allowed to work more than 35 hours in a week. You're not allowed to work harder than your competitor.
post #36 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post

I don't get the issue with children working as such. The fortunate few in the so called "west" seem quite enraged by it. Curious thing that, I suppose they want the children to die, or perhaps be picked up by a pimp for sale.

Children working has always been the way, it is only a recent perversion of the "west" that children should sit around screaming out their wants, to be waited on and then end up kinda useless when they pretend to step out on their own, like to the mail box.

Now...

If the actual issue is "fair pay for fair work" (based on local cost of living vs hourly rate) then sure, but that has nothing to do with children and nothing to do with china or brazil exploiting people.

Cause in the glorious "west" people are under paid as well and exploited regardless of doing equal work based on age, how much was spent on their papers, time at employer. Worse, children are prevented from working and put at risk by being blocked from money in a society that makes it difficult to eat or sleep without it.

Not to downplay your point, but what's the difference between enraged and outraged?
post #37 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by macclone View Post

They should build one in every right to work state and only hire workers that never were associated with a union. I can't believe that Brazil is turning out more engineers and tech works than us.

If apple can ask Foxconn to build in brazil, they can ask Foxconn to build in the USA. Our supply chain is not inferior.
post #38 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

At this rate Foxcon will soon buy Apple

Foxconn doesn't have the market cap or profit Apple has. They eat Apple in employees and revenue but Apple will increase their profit and valuation mug faster than Foxconn if Foxconn is building to support Apple's growth.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #39 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drax7 View Post

If apple can ask Foxconn to build in brazil, they can ask Foxconn to build in the USA. Our supply chain is not inferior.

The US is superior... in wage expectations.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #40 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Well, its only a rumor that pops up in financial forums.

Ah, that's your problem: listening to THEM.

When the REAL rumor sites (us, 9to5, etc.) haven't even heard of that, you know it's nonsense.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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