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Apple appeals Chinese iPad trademark rejection

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Apple has filed an appeal over a Chinese court's December decision to reject a claim to the iPad name after it leveled a lawsuit against a local company in an attempt to assert control of the trademark in the region.

Citing an announcement from Chinese display manufacturer Proview International, an IDG News Service report published by Computerworld notes that the Cupertino, Calif., company had officially filed for the appeal with the Higher People's Court of Guangdong Province on Jan. 5, 2012 after losing the original case in December, 2011.

Apple's initial suit, which asserted that it legally purchased the iPad trademark in 2010 from a U.K. company named IP Applications after that company bought the rights from a Taiwanese Proview subsidiary, was shot down by the Shenzhen Municipal Court. The ruling stated that because the Shenzhen-based company did not attend the negotiations and the deal was made through a subsidiary, the purchase was void.

The case becomes more confusing as previous reports claim that IP Applications was somehow connected to Apple.

Before launching its increasingly popular tablet in 2010, Apple purchased the iPad trademark from Fujitsu, which started using the moniker for Windows CE-based handheld devices in 2003. The company subsequently purchased the remaining international iPad trademark rights, including those in China, from Proview's Taiwan subsidiary in 2006.

Xie Xianghui, Proview's legal representation, claims that Apple asked for the iPad trademark and legal fee compensation of 4 million yuan, or about $636,000, as part of the most recent appeal. The Shenzhen company has also filed two separate lawsuits seeking to ban iPad sales, though the cases are pending.
post #2 of 26
Since bribery and favors are de rigueur in China, Apple should simply point out the value of their continued use of Chinese labor (and rising salaries) as a counter-argument to any arguments against their being allowed the iPad name in China.

Walk softly, but carry a big stick.

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post #3 of 26
Apple just needs to buy the judge of the case. From what I hear, that works well over there.
post #4 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Since bribery and favors are de rigueur in China, Apple should simply point out the value of their continued use of Chinese labor (and rising salaries) as a counter-argument to any arguments against their being allowed the iPad name in China.

Walk softly, but carry a big stick.

China has a bigger stick.
post #5 of 26
Now go and ask them to sign ACTA.... and stop begging in Europe where it will be rejected even after signing (no country will enact it or adapt law to enforce ACTA in the current form of foolish Article 27 shape towards "corporate America").
post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post

China has a bigger stick.

700,000 Apple workers in a country that has a population of 1,338,299,500 which makes Apple's stick almost non existent.
post #7 of 26
All outrage for use of the iPad moniker can be overcome by enough money.

Reminds me of an HL Mencken story.

Seems Mencken was a misogynist. At a party, he asked a woman sitting at his table if she would sleep with him for $10,000. She thought a bit, then said yes. "Well, how about for $5?", "Of course not. What kind of woman do you think I am?" "I've already established that, my dear. Now I'm merely negotiating the price!".
post #8 of 26
Money, boy.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #9 of 26
Any system that demands corruption from its clients deserves to be flogged. If China blocks the iPad, they should suffer without it.
post #10 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by HolmanGT View Post

700,000 Apple workers in a country that has a population of 1,338,299,500 which makes Apple's stick almost non existent.

Not at all. How many other employers (besides the Chinese government) employ nearly a million people - and pay above average wages?

Exxon-Mobile has 83,000 employees in the U.S. - out of 300 M people. That's considerably less (on a proportionate basis) than Apple has in China. While Exxon could not throw its weight around in the U.S., they could certainly get a hearing on anything they wished. Apple is responsible for an even greater percentage of China's employment and income. Plus, the Chinese culture of 'saving face' would almost require them to talk with Apple.

Now, that's not to say that Apple can get this turned around easily - or at all. But to suggest that Apple has not clout is silly.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #11 of 26
They (Chinese) freely steal everything they can from everyone else. All those jobs to build iPads are in China (the irony). What a bunch of self righteous idiots they are over there in China. I'm so tired of those cheats. Sorry all, just venting.

You can't fix Stupid (China).
post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Not at all. How many other employers (besides the Chinese government) employ nearly a million people - and pay above average wages?

Exxon-Mobile has 83,000 employees in the U.S. - out of 300 M people. That's considerably less (on a proportionate basis) than Apple has in China. While Exxon could not throw its weight around in the U.S., they could certainly get a hearing on anything they wished. Apple is responsible for an even greater percentage of China's employment and income. Plus, the Chinese culture of 'saving face' would almost require them to talk with Apple.

Now, that's not to say that Apple can get this turned around easily - or at all. But to suggest that Apple has not clout is silly.

You're applying way too much logic. China is still IP pirating, free loading communist nation at it's core. They simply don't give a crap, especially about foreign enterprises.
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I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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post #13 of 26
Apple could simply not sell the iPad in china. This would probably make more trouble for the rising middle class then it would be worth to enforce. The government does respond to popular pressure when it is in their best interest to do so.
post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Not at all. How many other employers (besides the Chinese government) employ nearly a million people - and pay above average wages?

Exxon-Mobile has 83,000 employees in the U.S. - out of 300 M people. That's considerably less (on a proportionate basis) than Apple has in China. While Exxon could not throw its weight around in the U.S., they could certainly get a hearing on anything they wished. Apple is responsible for an even greater percentage of China's employment and income. Plus, the Chinese culture of 'saving face' would almost require them to talk with Apple.

Now, that's not to say that Apple can get this turned around easily - or at all. But to suggest that Apple has not clout is silly.

You're basing these numbers on how many people Apple employees. Apple does not employee 700.000 people in China. Not near that number. Apple employs Foxconn, which then employs 700,000 people to make things, in addition to the iPad and iPhone, Dell computers and other electronic gadgets. Apple is not their only contract, just their largest.

But even your logic proves that China will always have the upper hand. They can wake up one day, get tired of Apple, and mysteriously hold up Apple's new iPad 3 waiting on the dock in customs. Apple would loose billions in revenue weekly. Or, all it takes is a single iPad 3 making its say out of the top secret compound and into the hands of the New York Times. That alone would infuriate Apple. It would take years for Apple to scale up production in another country, so it's not like they can walk away from China. The executives quoted in the NYTimes article even admitted as much. Apple depends on China much more than China depends on them.
post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

You're applying way too much logic. China is still IP pirating, free loading communist nation at it's core. They simply don't give a crap, especially about foreign enterprises.

Name calling is inappropriate. Prior to the US needing to protect Mark Twain's writings, the US was the worst IP violator on the planet. Yes, it necessary to press China to support IP of others, but just like the US before the late 1800's, China will do so when it is in their best interests and not before.

So, when you hear these public arguments between nations or corporate leaders, don't take them too seriously, and understand that, at the top, its just PR pressure, and they make these arguments with a smile on their face. They all know the score.
post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Name calling is inappropriate. Prior to the US needing to protect Mark Twain's writings, the US was the worst IP violator on the planet. Yes, it necessary to press China to support IP of others, but just like the US before the late 1800's, China will do so when it is in their best interests and not before.

So, when you hear these public arguments between nations or corporate leaders, don't take them too seriously, and understand that, at the top, its just PR pressure, and they make these arguments with a smile on their face. They all know the score.

I didn't name call at all. They're a communist country, and they have the worst record ever of IP protection. Those are facts. Comparing a time in US history that predates the Industrial Revolution and included slavery to the 21st century doesn't seem logical.

It's a hard to take a country that (intentionally) won't even float it's currency seriously, never mind deal with trademark issues. You're right, they know exactly what they're doing and so do we.
I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by 801 View Post

Apple could simply not sell the iPad in china.

And then the HK scalpers would pick up the game.

From what I have heard the major issue is that IP/Apple were told they were buying the global rights. not 'all the rights we have which is everywhere but China', thus they acted in good faith and this game of 'that country belongs to a branch of the company' should be void.

I can see where Apple wants to push this issue. The last thing they need is some knockoff that can legally call itself an iPad diminishing their rep. They would probably will be willing to buy the trademark but rumor has it the company is refusing to discuss such an issue. So the courts are really the only way they can try to get that to change.
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

And then the HK scalpers would pick up the game.

From what I have heard the major issue is that IP/Apple were told they were buying the global rights. not 'all the rights we have which is everywhere but China', thus they acted in good faith and this game of 'that country belongs to a branch of the company' should be void.

I can see where Apple wants to push this issue. The last thing they need is some knockoff that can legally call itself an iPad diminishing their rep. They would probably will be willing to buy the trademark but rumor has it the company is refusing to discuss such an issue. So the courts are really the only way they can try to get that to change.

If I have to guess? Apple don't want to pay a lot of money to buy the trademark. The thing is, it's pretty useless for the other party, knockoffs, how much profit can you get off that? Not much. If Apple would pay maybe $5-10MM, they'd get it, they just don't want to pay that much. Not saying they're wrong, but I'm just saying, there's no way the other party won't sell it, just depends on the price.
post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post

China has a bigger stick.

But China loves getting paid more.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

Reply
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

All outrage for use of the iPad moniker can be overcome by enough money.

Reminds me of an HL Mencken story.

Seems Mencken was a misogynist. At a party, he asked a woman sitting at his table if she would sleep with him for $10,000. She thought a bit, then said yes. "Well, how about for $5?", "Of course not. What kind of woman do you think I am?" "I've already established that, my dear. Now I'm merely negotiating the price!".

I knew of that joke/story, but I did not realize it was Mencken who said that.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

Reply
post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

You're applying way too much logic. China is still IP pirating, free loading communist nation at it's core. They simply don't give a crap, especially about foreign enterprises.

There is plenty of graft to go around in China, but Communism is the facade of the Communist Party only. The people are dyed in the wool capitalists.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

Reply
post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landcruiser View Post

They (Chinese) freely steal everything they can from everyone else. All those jobs to build iPads are in China (the irony). What a bunch of self righteous idiots they are over there in China. I'm so tired of those cheats. Sorry all, just venting.

You can't fix Stupid (China).

Huh, yea! Sounds like you ought to lay yourself on a slab of ice for a while.

I can't see why this post enrages you so much. It's a trade mark registered in china, and a company trying to exploit this. Don't tell me this happens only in china and never in US or elsewhere.
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

And then the HK scalpers would pick up the game.

From what I have heard the major issue is that IP/Apple were told they were buying the global rights. not 'all the rights we have which is everywhere but China', thus they acted in good faith and this game of 'that country belongs to a branch of the company' should be void.

I can see where Apple wants to push this issue. The last thing they need is some knockoff that can legally call itself an iPad diminishing their rep. They would probably will be willing to buy the trademark but rumor has it the company is refusing to discuss such an issue. So the courts are really the only way they can try to get that to change.

Lawyers shouldn't negotiate in good faith. They should be reading chapter and verse the agreement. Someone cocked it up. As to whom, I have no idea.
post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly View Post

Lawyers shouldn't negotiate in good faith. They should be reading chapter and verse the agreement. Someone cocked it up. As to whom, I have no idea.

Exactly. It's a relatively simply legal matter. Either the Taiwan subsidiary had the rights to sell the name to Apple or they didn't. If they did, then the purchase was legitimate and the Chinese parent company should lose. If they didn't, Apple messed up and has no rights to the name in the PRC (although, presumably, they do have the rights in Taiwan).

No real need to get into all the name calling that's going on, nor does it have anything to do with any claimed cultural propensity to theft.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #25 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaipher View Post

Any system that demands corruption from its clients deserves to be flogged. If China blocks the iPad, they should suffer without it.

/agree

Though iPads will still make their way in via Hong Kong et.al. It just means that they have to import. I'm sure they would soon see the light. And the company holding out the iPad trademark for a big payday? Just say no.
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It is useless for sheep to pass laws outlawing carnivorism when the wolf is of a different mind.
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post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post

China has a bigger stick.

not really - the borrower always has the advantage in that the borrower got the money and the lender hopes for repayment. The chinese may do us all a favor if they stopped buying our debt anyway.
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