or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Investors › AAPL Investors › Windows Phone 8 to address its "perceived inability to compete" with iPhone, Android later this year
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Windows Phone 8 to address its "perceived inability to compete" with iPhone, Android later this... - Page 2

post #41 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

It's far worse than that.

That someone would have the self-belief they can label another person as a "loser" based on the type of phone they have indicates a level of social ineptitude (or immaturity) bordering on clinical narcissism.

I hate to invoke such an overused Internet forum cliché, but these truly are the words of a teenager (or perhaps adult in need of psychological evaluation).

So it's not OK for someone to call someone a Loser, because that means they are immature and could mean they're narcissist, but it's OK for you to call that person a teenager. Got it.

How is that any different? Should I consider you a narcissist for having slung a childish insult back?
post #42 of 62
I can't even believe that the even name of this article is biased.

In original article, Pocketnow said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocketnow View Post

Microsoft is addressing one of the platform's pain points, which is a perceived inability to compete in spec sheet comparisons with the iPhone and Android-based devices.

Apparently, Apple Insider changed this to
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Insider View Post

Microsoft's upcoming Windows Phone 8, expected in the second half of the year, will seek to address its perceived inability to compete with Apple's iPhone and Google's Android

Additional corrections:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Insider View Post

Existing Windows Phones lack support for a front facing camera, making Skype integration mostly useful to Windows Phone buyers who wait until next year.

Believe me, some Windows Phones do in fact have font facing cameras.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Insider View Post

The report mentioned that WP8 will actively attempt to give Wi-Fi connections precedence, going so far as to automatically connect to carrier-owned WLANs when in range, features that iOS introduced several years ago.

Windows Phones already support this today, but currently it's only implant on a carrier by carrier basis.

Additional note:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcM76 View Post

Multi core processor support is still just "among the goals"? That to me reads like it is something they'd like to include but aren't sure they'll manage it...

Surely stuff like that should be a nailed on certainty if they want to have any chance of competing? iPhone has been dual core for several months now (almost a year if we include the iPad 2) and quad core is rumoured for the iPad 3 and iPhone 5/6/?. Quad core Android phones are now getting reasonably common so to be still only aiming for multi core in an OS that won't be released for another few months is madness.

One of Microsofts biggest problems is that the current hardware requirements placed on manufacturers just don't allow for enough variation in handsets for any clear distinction between them, so consumers give up trying to pick one and walk out with an iphone or an android phone instead.

That's why Microsoft is moving Windows Phone from Windows CE kernel to Windows NT kernel. The CE kernel was designed for low resource consumption not for multi-core nor large available memory. The NT kernel, on the other hand, has recently been extremely optimized for multi-core.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcM76 View Post

They also really need to do something about power usage too - while Mango helped a lot windows phone 7 is still far more power hungry than iOS and Android, which considering it's only allowed to run on single core cpus is a pretty poor showing.

Just want to note that Windows Phones generally have better battery life than do Android phones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Looks to me like Microsoft STILL doesn't get it.

Simply listing 1,000 features is not going to convince customers to switch to your device (especially when the competition already has 99.8% of them.

Give the customer a good reason why they're going to be wowed by the Windows Phone 8. What is it that is going to knock their socks off? If you can find something, THAT Is what you should be promoting. If you can't find something, then you need to go back to the drawing board.

Specs are so '90s.

The leaked video is not intended for public consumption.
post #43 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Too little too late. anybody that would even consider WP must be a total loser.

How old are you???
post #44 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

...but the truth is the only thing you did wrong was make the mistake of taking a Dillger article at face value, something I've been guilty of myself..

Agreed. I would love to know what MS could do to illicit a positive comment from this guy. I am sure if MS discovered the cure for all major diseases and donate the cure for free, Dilgar would manage to put a negative spin on it.
post #45 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braden99 View Post

Get it? What that only Apple should have a mobile operating system? Because they are supercool, and MS evil?

Windows Phone is crap. Microsoft has no taste. The letters all get cut off on the right of the "tile" so you can't even read it. Use the right font size, eh?
post #46 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

Lots of people say this, but what is the evidence? Never has Apple required competition to innovate. Competition didn't create the iPod, iPhone, or iPad.


This is so true.

As you point out, Apple has innovated like crazy before the industries even existed. All the "competition" did was copy and steal IP.

People make the same nonsense arguments for "open systems". Apple--which is dogmatically closed--has been a wellspring of innovation. Where has the innovation been with the likes of Dell, Samsung, Hewlett-Packard, or Microsoft been? If anything, I believe a closed system enhances innovation, as one company can effectively coordinate all the departments/systems needed.
post #47 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

It's far worse than that.

That someone would have the self-belief they can label another person as a "loser" based on the type of phone they have indicates a level of social ineptitude (or immaturity) bordering on clinical narcissism.

I hate to invoke such an overused Internet forum cliché, but these truly are the words of a teenager (or perhaps adult in need of psychological evaluation).

Wow! of this is your analysis of this guy, I wonder what you'd say about good ol' Apple][!
post #48 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Windows Phone is crap. Microsoft has no taste. The letters all get cut off on the right of the "tile" so you can't even read it. Use the right font size, eh?

Words fail me!!!
post #49 of 62
What I find so fascinating about MS failure is how best it demonstrates that a large company, with almost unlimited resources, and talented people, will go nowhere, if nobody at the top gives a clear indication of what needs the future product should address, and what should be the key requirements to consider.

It is not just enough to say"I want an excellent product" (which will soon be interpreted as "I want a product at least as good as Apple's one" .....
post #50 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It's more than just the puck, Apple is at another ice rink and no one else even knows where the game is at. That said, it's Apple controlling not only the game but the league, so I don't know MS (or anyone else) can do anything else but keep investing into into this market for a chance to carve out a niche or for Apple to screw up. Apple and Nintendo are two technology companies that have both fallen from their perch and come back to reclaim strong holds. I see no reason why MS can't do that. Surely WinPh will cost them less than the Xbox 360 did. Are you specifically against the way MS is doing something with WinPh or is this just a general slam against them?

MS probably makes the most profit in the industry after Apple from licenses from handset vendors. I think that will pay for their WinPh R&D for quite awhile. All they can do is try, can we really expect anything else. Now we point real issues with their approach but there really isn't any, except for calling it Windows. WinPh is solid, it's just less mature than iOS so the ecosystem pales in comparison. That can be corrected with time. Will it, seems doubtful, but it seems even less doubtful that all those vendors using Android will actually be around in 5 years, with the exception of Samsung who might have forked Android completely or moved on to Bada by that point. In any case, MS is actually doing a bang up job with their mobile OS. To quote David Pogue, "It's not popular because it's not popular."


Agree 100%. I actually really like it - when Nokia release a phone with a physical keyboard I will be buying from the off. Anyone slamming it for usability hasn't used it. It's seriously well though out. Nice and different too. That's a plus in my book.
post #51 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Forget about the "perceived inability to compete", what about the ACTUAL inability to compete?

Darn. You pipped me. But that's what happens with Fish. Barrel. Shooting.
post #52 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Windows Phone is crap. Microsoft has no taste. The letters all get cut off on the right of the "tile" so you can't even read it. Use the right font size, eh?

I like the "Metro-esque" UI on the latest Xbox360 software update. I'll say it a million times, Xbox360 is about the only thing Microsoft "gets" right now in the consumer space. Even then, I can't watch YouTube/video "apps" without Xbox Live Gold (ie. PAY TO WATCH YOUTUBE and FREE TO AIR TV PROGRAMS)
post #53 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by BestKeptSecret View Post

Wow! of this is your analysis of this guy, I wonder what you'd say about good ol' Apple][!

Apple][ is great! Adoring Apple and hating everything else is a passion, calling people losers because of the phone they own is just straight up emotional immaturity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

So it's not OK for someone to call someone a Loser, because that means they are immature and could mean they're narcissist, but it's OK for you to call that person a teenager. Got it.

How is that any different? Should I consider you a narcissist for having slung a childish insult back?

Wow... that's deep dude.

Have you ever seen a homeless guy sitting in his own shit scratching his arm to get at the tracking device the aliens injected into him and though for a moment.... "maybe he is sane and we're the crazy ones!"
post #54 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I like the "Metro-esque" UI on the latest Xbox360 software update. I'll say it a million times, Xbox360 is about the only thing Microsoft "gets" right now in the consumer space. Even then, I can't watch YouTube/video "apps" without Xbox Live Gold (ie. PAY TO WATCH YOUTUBE and FREE TO AIR TV PROGRAMS)

I am not sure i would call the xbox 360 right. 50%+ failure rate (red ring of death), falling fast into third place in world wide sales, power supplies which burn down owners houses, etc... They do not call it the brick box 360 for nothing.
post #55 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Microsoft also highlighted opportunities for developers to "reuse -- by far -- most of their code" when working between WP8 and the Windows desktop, a feature Apple pioneered in the iPhone OS 2.0 when it delivered an SDK using the same tools and APIs Mac OS X developers were already familiar with. [ View article on AppleInsider ]

Doesn't OS X have garbage collection, and only iOS 5 has automatic reference counting? I'd love to see a successfuly business logic layer ported to iOS without anything being done about memory management. There's a huge difference between using the same tools / API's and actually having the same code.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

WP8 is also said to enhance its networking and data usage with tools apparently similar to those debuted for Android. The report mentioned that WP8 will "actively attempt to give Wi-Fi connections precedence, going so far as to automatically connect to carrier-owned WLANs when in range," features that iOS introduced several years ago.[ View article on AppleInsider ]

If iOS have had this for many years when are they going to make it work! I can sit in my own home with my iPhone connected to WiFi and unless I have a data plan the phone will drain my credit in a couple of days.
post #56 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

If iOS have had this for many years when are they going to make it work! I can sit in my own home with my iPhone connected to WiFi and unless I have a data plan the phone will drain my credit in a couple of days.

What does that even mean? Does your credit score go down? Does it max out your credit cards?
post #57 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

I could laugh and make fun of you for being clueless for confusing a leaked video for Nokia partners for customers communications...

...but the truth is the only thing you did wrong was make the mistake of taking a Dillger article at face value, something I've been guilty of myself.

Read if you must,....... As above, you should always check the source on a Dillger article.

....

While one should always look for multiple sources of information... DED is a very reliable source of information. Yes he says things that many fanboys do not like to hear, but I have always found him to be a very even handed writer. Met him in person in Dallas many years and a few surgeries ago.

Just a thought,
en
post #58 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

The line they use is that they are competing on the "user experience", not specs.

Not surprisingly this is the same line that Apple use, and in both cases it ends up being a load of bullshit.

This "user experience" line works for Apple because they have pretty much dictated the market up until this point.

Things like apps, front facing cameras, copy & paste and multi-tasking were all seen by a lot of people as not really important... right up until Apple announced their inclusion in the latest iPhone, at which point they basically became "essential features" of a smart phone.

Depending on what is included in the iPhone "5" expect to see the same thing happen with larger screens ("the iPhone screen is the perfect size"), NFC ("NFC is useless without Apple on board"), 4G ("LTE isn't even worth it yet") and Quad-core chips ("a phone doesn't need more than a dual core!").

My point being that it doesn't really matter if the WPx "user experience" would improve with a dual-core chip (apparently they tested it, and it didn't), the fact is "dual-core" has become an "essential feature" of a smart phone because Apple are doing it now.

I suspect the truth is that Microsoft had to make a choice between bringing the Windows 8 kernel down to the phone and adding features (like multi-core) to the exiting Windows Phone 7 kernel.

You can be assured that once they are capable of releasing a dual-core Windows 8 phone they will drop the "user experience matters, not multi-core" line for "we have improved the user experience with a multi-core chip!" (regardless of the actual truth)

Actually, Apollo will have an entirely new kernel built on top of what's called MinWin, which has been under development for about four years. And if I'm not mistaken, all the versions of Windows 8 (phone, tablet, desktop, server) are going to be built on top of MinWin. So there wasn't any bringing this down to that. Someone decided a ways back that this would be the new way forward for the Windows kernel. W8 is where EVERYTHING is collapsing into a shared kernel.
post #59 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Too little too late. anybody that would even consider WP must be a total loser.

Yesterday I went to see the Lumia 800 just out of curiosity and guess what? I bought one.

It had all the apps I'm using (not much though), but it was the Office 365 integration that made the difference. We are a small 20+ architectural office, and Lumia might well become a recommended device for us. I've played with it a while now and I haven't seen any bugs or quirks yet. Only thing that bothered me was the apparently mandatory xbox live account for gaming.

It's a pretty stunning device, go see yourself.
post #60 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldernorm View Post

While one should always look for multiple sources of information... DED is a very reliable source of information. Yes he says things that many fanboys do not like to hear, but I have always found him to be a very even handed writer. Met him in person in Dallas many years and a few surgeries ago.

Just a thought,
en

Sometimes, yes. Especially true with the articles focusing on Apple history.

This time though he didn't just present the leaked information, he wrote an analysis of the leaked information... and his analysis was terrible.

All he did was look through the points, and without really understanding what they meant just listed features in Android and iOS that sound similar.

This is because Dillger only knows about iOS and Android, he simply doesn't know enough about Windows Phone to write anything meaningful about how this leaked information applies to the Windows platform.

The fact that he thinks Windows Phone doesn't support front facing cameras (hint: it does) is a case in point.

No doubt he simply views WP as irrelevant, and the only reason he bothered to learn anything about Android is because he sees it as the only true compeditor to iOS.

Of course this is fine and he is entitled to his opinion. That said, I have to wonder why he even bothers writing about a platform he knows so little about, and why someone like yourself would view his article as a "very reliable source of information" when he obviously knows so little about the subject matter.
post #61 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

I am not sure i would call the xbox 360 right. 50%+ failure rate (red ring of death), falling fast into third place in world wide sales, power supplies which burn down owners houses, etc... They do not call it the brick box 360 for nothing.

RROD has more or less been fixed and the Xbox360 Slim is a reasonable design and much, much improved. The interface and gaming and all that is pleasurable for a console, and beats PC and Mac gaming for simplicity and quality of gaming experience (wide range of titles available, no Internet connectivity or hardware upgrades/specs required, etc).

I wouldn't say it's dropping to third, it's holding a good 2nd place against the PS3, which continues to do alright but Xbox360 is holding its own. Yeah some of the past several months don't look too hot, but even if it slipped below the PS3, what I consider mainstream to enthusiast video gaming is still pretty much dominated by Xbox360 and PS3, with PC and Mac afterthought ports. Nothing against Wii, but it shouldn't really be lumped together with Xbox360 and PS3.

All said and done, it does show how ludicrous Microsoft has performed in the consumer space in the past 10 years. That the Xbox360 is their crowning glory, with nothing else but failed and buggy, monopoly/illegal manipulations left in their wake.

That's why I reiterate my line, iPad4 running DX10-quality 1680x1050 graphics, Unreal Engine 4 full-spec etc. will crush consoles overnight.

It truly amazes me that Steve Jobs would go home at night and not just be staggered by how easily they could crush the competition in so many areas if they wanted to. But I guess that only became apparent circa-2008.
post #62 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

That's why I reiterate my line, iPad4 running DX10-quality 1680x1050 graphics, Unreal Engine 4 full-spec etc. will crush consoles overnight.

Storage: Current gen console quality games are 5Gb to 15Gb. If you're talking something with better graphics than current-gen consoles you're going to need somewhere to store all those games.

Cost: Who is going to put up the $100+ million to fund the 1st party "AAA" games like we see on consoles.

Development time: The development time on the "AAA" console games is 2 years or more. Apparently Skyrim was more like 4 years. That means at a minimum Apple would need to disclose the specs and have dev kits for whatever iPad will be released in 2014 so they can start working now.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: AAPL Investors
AppleInsider › Forums › Investors › AAPL Investors › Windows Phone 8 to address its "perceived inability to compete" with iPhone, Android later this year