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Apple's iPhone takes 75% mobile phone profits with just 9% of units sold - Page 2

post #41 of 78
2/3/12 at 5:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

4% of how many millions? It outsells most if not all individual models of Android phones. So a great many people are choosing it. A "low end" Android sells at twice the price and has comparable specs. All that equates to low end.

Is this 1988 Rolls Royce Phantom at $27k a low-end car? No! It's a low cost for a Rolls Royce because it's used and a quarter century old. When we're talking about low-end without qualifiers we are specifically talking about products that were designed and marketed for the low-end of the market upon arrival, not because they were made cheaper because newer products naturally came to market. Saying that the iPhone 3GS from 2009 is the low-end of the iPhone family is not same as calling the iPhone 3GS a low-end phone.

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post #42 of 78
2/3/12 at 5:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Is this 1988 Rolls Royce Phantom at $27k a low-end car? No! It's a low cost for a Rolls Royce because it's used and a quarter century old. When we're talking about low-end without qualifiers we are specifically talking about products that were designed and marketed for the low-end of the market upon arrival, not because they were made cheaper because newer products naturally came to market. Saying that the iPhone 3GS from 2009 is the low-end of the iPhone family is not same as calling the iPhone 3GS a low-end phone.


Bad example. A 3GS iPhone bought today was not built in 2009. The question isn't why it was built and sold back in 2009 its why is it being built and sold in 2012? The answer's not one and the same.
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post #43 of 78
2/3/12 at 5:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Bad example. A 3GS iPhone bought today was not built in 2009.

I'll give you that, not my best exampling, but you're still not seeing it as an older high-end phone that has been deprecated to the low-end market due to advancement in the market, you are seeing it as a low-end phone without qualifying how it got there. That's disingenuous at best. I wouldn't call the Nexus phones low-end phones even though I can buy them cheaply and doubt Google's partners still make the older models.

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post #44 of 78
2/3/12 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'll give you that, not my best exampling, but you're still not seeing it as an older high-end phone that has been deprecated to the low-end market due to advancement in the market, you are seeing it as a low-end phone without qualifying how it got there. That's disingenuous at best. I wouldn't call the Nexus phones low-end phones even though I can buy them cheaply and doubt Google's partners still make the older models.

I'd like no I'd love for you to show me a cheap Nexus 1. Nowhere did I say the 3GS has since inception been low end, I'm just arguing against Apple]['s statement that Apple does not have a device for the low end market when they clearly do and if you ask me its a brilliant move. That many people choose and iPhone over something else.
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post #45 of 78
2/3/12 at 6:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I'd like no I'd love for you to show me a cheap Nexus 1. Nowhere did I say the 3GS has since inception been low end, I'm just arguing against Apple]['s statement that Apple does not have a device for the low end market when they clearly do and if you ask me its a brilliant move. That many people choose and iPhone over something else.

Apple didn't MAKE the iPhone 3GS (or the iPhone 3G before it and the iPhone 4 and 4S after it) for the low-end market. They MADE it for the premium smartphone market. It's only through the advancement of the tech and popularity of the platform that the older iPhone generations still have a viable market at the lower-end. That is Apple continuing production, not doing R&D for the low-end of the market, which is how I would interpret your statements.

Also note that the 3GS still retails for $375 for only 8GB. That is not a low-end price point, it's just low-end from the consumer's subsidized price point. I'd call that the medium price level for the carrier to pay for a smartphone and high-end for a carrier to pay for a handset to a vendor.

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post #46 of 78
2/3/12 at 6:18pm
@ a few of you...

The big takeaway from all this is that Apple spent time and money over 3 years ago developing the iPhone 3GS... and it continues to sell today.

People wonder why Apple makes a lot of profit... this is just one example.

R&D for the iPhone 3GS was paid off years ago... and now it's Apple budget phone.

Other companies spend lots of money releasing new "cheap" phones every week.
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post #47 of 78
2/3/12 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Apple didn't MAKE the iPhone 3GS (or the iPhone 3G before it and the iPhone 4 and 4S after it) for the low-end market. They MADE it for the premium smartphone market. It's only through the advancement of the tech and popularity of the platform that the older iPhone generations still have a viable market at the lower-end. That is Apple continuing production, not doing R&D for the low-end of the market, which is how I would interpret your statements.

Also note that the 3GS still retails for $375 for only 8GB. That is not a low-end price point, it's just low-end from the consumer's subsidized price point. I'd call that the medium price level for the carrier to pay for a smartphone and high-end for a carrier to pay for a handset to a vendor.

Again the question isn't why they made it back in 2009, and all the way until 2010 when the iPhone 4 came out. There are 3 markets, Premium-4S, Middle-iP4, low-3GS. Show me refutable evidence that I'm wrong. And I'm still waiting for the link for that cheap nexus 1.
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post #48 of 78
2/3/12 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Again the question isn't why they made it back in 2009, and all the way until 2010 when the iPhone 4 came out. There are 3 markets, Premium-4S, Middle-iP4, low-3GS. Show me refutable evidence that I'm wrong. And I'm still waiting for the link for that cheap nexus 1.

Yes, those are the categories for the devices in the current market of iPhones. That is a very limited scope. It's not a low-end device in the smartphone market at $375 and it's not a low-end device in the handset market. It's like saying the 13" MBP with a 2.4GHz Core i5, 4GB 1333MHz, 500GB 5400-rpm and Intel HD Graphics 3000 is a low-end notebook when it's just the low-end MBP and low-end within the 13" MBP categories, but at $1,199 it's not a low-end notebook, even though you can call the HDD and iGPU low-end within their market categories. Those are very specific categorizations. If that's what you meant, then so be it, but calling it a general low-end phone or smartphone for the entire market I will never agree with.

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post #49 of 78
2/3/12 at 6:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Again the question isn't why they made it back in 2009, and all the way until 2010 when the iPhone 4 came out. There are 3 markets, Premium-4S, Middle-iP4, low-3GS. Show me refutable evidence that I'm wrong. And I'm still waiting for the link for that cheap nexus 1.

I think you and Solip are missing each others point. If you would have used the qualifier: iPhone 3GS is Apple's *current* low end model, he wouldn't be jumping at you for calling it a low-end phone. In it's heyday, the 3GS was at the head of the class and the fact that a 3+ year old phone still shows strong demand proves how high-end Apple's low-end phone really is.

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post #50 of 78
2/3/12 at 6:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

I think you and Solip are missing each others point. If you would have used the qualifier: iPhone 3GS is Apple's *current* low end model, he wouldn't be jumping at you for calling it a low-end phone. In it's heyday, the 3GS was at the head of the class and the fact that a 3+ year old phone still shows strong demand proves how high-end Apple's low-end phone really is.

Yep, adding "Apple" as a qualifier makes it true.

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post #51 of 78
2/3/12 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Yes, those are the categories for the devices in the current market of iPhones. That is a very limited scope. It's not a low-end device in the smartphone market at $375 and it's not a low-end device in the handset market. It's like saying the 13" MBP with a 2.4GHz Core i5, 4GB 1333MHz, 500GB 5400-rpm1 and Intel HD Graphics 3000 is a low-end notebook when it's just the low-end MBP and low-end within the 13" MBP categories. Very specific categorizations. If that's what you meant, then so be it, but calling it a general low-end phone or smartphone for the entire market I will never agree with.

Another bad example. A MBP is not subsidized. Very few people pay $375 for a 3GS. If I could purchase a MBP for the same price as a Acer netbook then yes it would be low end market.
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post #52 of 78
2/3/12 at 6:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Another bad example. A MBP is not subsidized. Very few people pay $375 for a 3GS. If I could purchase a MBP for the same price as a Acer netbook then yes it would be low end market.

Subsidization is irrelevant to whether a product was developed to enter the low-end of a market or not. Are you really saying that only subsidization products can be categorized as low-, middle-, and high-end for a market?

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post #53 of 78
2/3/12 at 6:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Yep, adding "Apple" as a qualifier makes it true.

I think he meant *current* as the qualifier, and is not 2012 current?
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post #54 of 78
2/3/12 at 6:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Yep, adding "current" as a qualifier makes it true.

There, fixed it for ya....wisenheimer.

Edit: Better yet, the 3GS is Apple's low-end phone in their current lineup. It is, by no means, low-end.

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post #55 of 78
2/3/12 at 6:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I think he meant *current* as the qualifier, and is not 2012 current?

he emphasised current but he also added the word Apple. Both are qualifiers but "Apple" is needed to note that one is looking only at Apple's selection. As for being current, that does help make the communication more complete but that is a given with humans; we use qualifiers to note when we aren't talking about the here and/or now.

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post #56 of 78
2/3/12 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Subsidization is irrelevant to whether a product was developed to enter the low-end of a market or not. Are you really saying that only subsidization products can be categorized as low-, middle-, and high-end for a market?

No just that using a MBP as an example was bad. None my posts state that the 3GS was originally made for the low end market but I've repeatedly stated that now in 2012 Apple continues to make it for the low end market.
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post #57 of 78
2/3/12 at 7:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

No just that using a MBP as an example was bad. None my posts state that the 3GS was originally made for the low end market but I've repeatedly stated that now in 2012 Apple continues to make it for the low end market.

That's the qualifier I was looking for. Your original response to me was qualifying it poorly. You even used plastic to note it's low-end even though that would then mean the original iPhone is still higher-end than the 3GS despite the performance increase the 3GS had over the original iPhone.

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post #58 of 78
2/3/12 at 7:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That's the qualifier I was looking for. Your original response to me was qualifying it poorly. You even used plastic to note it's low-end even though that would then mean the original iPhone is still higher-end than the 3GS despite the performance increase the 3GS had over the original iPhone.

It doesn't negate the fact that I've been correct since the beginning and I've repeatedly posed the question why do they continue to make it if not for the lower end market. And yes even when it was a premium phone it had a cheap plastic back lol.
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post #59 of 78
2/3/12 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

It doesn't negate the fact that I've been correct since the beginning and I've repeatedly posed the question why do they continue to make it if not for the lower end market. And yes even when it was a premium phone it had a cheap plastic back lol.

1) You're not arguing that the 3GS is an inexpensive subsidized smartphone otherwise you would have specified that. It's $375 for 8GB. That's not a low-end device. You can't use the subsidized price as the measure because you know very well even the newest iPhone is given for free on contract in many countries.

2) You keep qualifying the plastic as being cheap which can only means you are comparing it other plastics for phones, otherwise you would have only stated plastic in comparison to other materials used for the casing. I can assure you that is not the case.

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post #60 of 78
2/3/12 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I do wonder if Apple might do better in the long term if they dropped the price of the iPhone.

Obviously the profitability they have at the moment is frankly stunning - it's hard to believe that data is possible! WIth that said, as lower end of the market increasingly becomes smart phone based as well, is it possible that Apple might find themselves losing out in app development, due to their lower volumes?

What I'm getting at is, is there a tipping point where application developers, who don't make any money on hardware sales, will decide to focus all of their efforts on the high volume platform, as opposed to the platform that makes most money for the hardware manufacturer?

Your comment makes no sense. Application developers don't and never cared how much the hardware manufacturer makes they only care how much they make. Application developers like everyone else follow the money and will write apps for whatever platform makes them the most profit whether that is Android, iOS, RIM, Symbian or whoever.
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post #61 of 78
2/3/12 at 7:46pm
"Those people aren't important to Apple's bottom line and Apple should never pursue that demographic."

Ive been a poor Apple geek from 1991 on. I have scrimped and saved and for awhile lived off used outdated Apple devices. Just so I could experience it!

All I have to ask you is fascist much?

I am in that demographic yet I appreciate beauty. Dont deny beauty. And also dont cattle crowd your fellow man into a demographic. There is allot of beauty to be found out there from the business succeeder to the hobo that has fallen off his way. Lots of beauty. Its a BIG world.

I really dont like to get into flame wars but the way you framed your comment seemed worthy of a response.

I am happy that Apple is doing so well. Especially as I evangelized the company to friends and family through the dark ages of Apple.

Hope your weekend is splendid and that you get time to contemplate the worth of poor working people, who love great design and superior products.
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post #62 of 78
2/3/12 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hank_e View Post

Hope your weekend is splendid and that you get time to contemplate the worth of poor working people, who love great design and superior products.

And a nice weekend to you too!

Maybe people read too much into what I write sometimes. I wouldn't classify myself as rich (I'm working on it) and there are times when I haven't had too much money, but even then I would still only choose to buy Apple's computers because it was worth it to me. So I guess we're similar in that regard.
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post #63 of 78
2/3/12 at 8:28pm
It's impressive but they're not "taking" 75% of profits from others, because they are increasing the size of the market massively. I would say they are earning 75% of the profits.
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post #64 of 78
2/3/12 at 10:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by S8ER01Z View Post

So what you are saying is apple is ripping us off?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

ahem, seems to demonstrate how gullible average Apple buyers are (duck)

Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

No, Apple is not ripping their customers off. Their customers are willing to pay an exorbitant amount of money for a product that has very little advantages compared to their competitors.

The trolls just cannot resist. Perhaps the other manufacturers should simply charge more and make larger profits. That would change the picture. \

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

Exorbitant amount of money for the iPhone?

Oh crap... I got sucked into Slapppy's troll trap!

S...y seems to think that those who buy Apple products have no choice, that they are destined to buy whatever Apple offers. This is the only way that Apple could sell such expensive products and across all products be the most profitable. Perhaps if the other manufacturers charged a whole lot more, we Apple lemmings would jump ship, drawn irresistibly to the higher prices. The effect would be compounding, more phones sold at higher prices (and presumably a greater profit margin) would really stick it to Apple.
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post #65 of 78
2/3/12 at 11:34pm
Apple makes the most profits because they have the lowest costs, and charge the distributors more than other OEMs do. For instance, let's say an average iphone 4S costs 350 dollars to make, they sell it to the distributor for 600, then it gets sold to the consumer for 700. An average HTC phone would cost 450 dollars, gets sold to the distributor for 500, then it gets sold to the consumer for the same 700. (numbers aren't exact, although they do reflect relative numbers - I do remember in a recent Apple earnings report that their average iPhone selling price is over 600)

It's a combination of the fact that higher end Android phones generally have more expensive components (larger screens, faster processors, faster antennas, etc...), and the OEM sells them for less to get in good with the distributors (ie. the telecoms).

I personally wouldn't be cheering this level of profitability unless I had money in Apple stock currently (which I don't - I've been investing in smaller, less mature companies lately).
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post #66 of 78
2/4/12 at 12:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post


I personally wouldn't be cheering this level of profitability unless I had money in Apple stock currently (which I don't - I've been investing in smaller, less mature companies lately).

Apple's profitability means they will be around another day to make great products for us.

Other companies in the industry made no profit AT ALL this past quarter.... (Motorola, Sony, etc...)

If we shouldn't be cheering for Apple... should we be weeping for those other companies?
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post #67 of 78
2/4/12 at 2:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

Perhaps if the other manufacturers charged a whole lot more, we Apple lemmings would jump ship, drawn irresistibly to the higher prices. The effect would be compounding, more phones sold at higher prices (and presumably a greater profit margin) would really stick it to Apple.

It was not that long ago that phones were sold purely as a way to make the mobile phone networks chargeable, and being reamed $5-600 a month was a regular occurance.

The balance has shifted, the people making the money before was the telcos, now the smartphone and apple's brilliant products are removing the stranglehold the networks have.

imessage avoiding sms fees (insert android equivalent here) voip phones allowing the same hardware to perform the same function but totally bypassing the telco networks, there's no wonder there is profit in this game, its the bit that takes the phone away from being a phone, and makes it into everything else as well.

prior to iphone using shit like windows mobile tried to do everything else, but broke the primary function (using it as a phone) by unregulated usage of resources (how many times did my winmo crash while using copilot, just because a call came through and the CPU couldnt cope with the multitasking demands)

so now the smart phone is maturing, apple just did it better, earlier, and is thus shifting the profit away from the telcos and into R&D for the next big thing
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post #68 of 78
2/4/12 at 3:13am
Strangulation party .. fascinating ...
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post #69 of 78
2/4/12 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

Apple's profitability means they will be around another day to make great products for us.

Other companies in the industry made no profit AT ALL this past quarter.... (Motorola, Sony, etc...)

If we shouldn't be cheering for Apple... should we be weeping for those other companies?

Yes we should weep. As much as I live Apple product I do not want to live in a Apple only world.
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post #70 of 78
2/4/12 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Yes we should weep. As much as I live Apple product I do not want to live in a Apple only world.

An Apple only world has never existed, ever, so why are you weeping?

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post #71 of 78
2/4/12 at 11:11am
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Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

An Apple only world has never existed, ever, so why are you weeping?

.. and we have been very close to experience a Microsoft world ... which was not seen as a threat of any kind ...
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post #72 of 78
2/4/12 at 11:49am
So here's my breakdown of the situation:

Steve Jobs = Insanely great products and consumer demand

Tim Cook = Insanely efficient production, supply chain and profits


-IQ78
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post #73 of 78
2/4/12 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

An Apple only world has never existed, ever, so why are you weeping?

Because if things continue on its course it will be, Apple is becoming big brother. This looks more and more like an Apple presentation, just insert SJs face on the screen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhsWz...e_gdata_player
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post #74 of 78
2/4/12 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Yes we should weep. As much as I live Apple product I do not want to live in a Apple only world.

Tell those other companies to make products that people actually want. Don't blame Apple...

Geez... Motorola spent more money than they made last quarter... whose fault is that?

Motorola's been in the cell phone game for 20 years... Apple for only 5 years.
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post #75 of 78
2/4/12 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

Tell those other companies to make products that people actually want. Don't blame Apple...

Geez... Motorola spent more money than they made last quarter... whose fault is that?

Motorola's been in the cell phone game for 20 years... Apple for only 5 years.

That's a tough task. Apple has raised the bar so high that not many if any can reach that high. Moto makes nice devices, way better built than those cheap plasticy Samsung. They did well with the first Droid but since then have fumbled the ball.
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post #76 of 78
2/4/12 at 3:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

That's a tough task. Apple has raised the bar so high that not many if any can reach that high. Moto makes nice devices, way better built than those cheap plasticy Samsung. They did well with the first Droid but since then have fumbled the ball.

Everyone says they want competition... this is it.

Not only is Motorola competing with Apple... they are also competing with every other Android manufacturer.

War is hell...
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post #77 of 78
2/4/12 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Because if things continue on its course it will be, Apple is becoming big brother. This looks more and more like an Apple presentation, just insert SJs face on the screen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhsWz...e_gdata_player

Oh change the fuckin' record!

1.5 BILLION NON iPhones sold in 2011
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post #78 of 78
2/5/12 at 1:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Because if things continue on its course it will be, Apple is becoming big brother. This looks more and more like an Apple presentation, just insert SJs face on the screen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhsWz...e_gdata_player

Google is the real "big brother", poking their nose into every corner of the Internet, sniffing out user data, selling it to the highest bidder and very effectively hiding behind a wall of doublespeak which the masses keep lapping up.

So when Google holds all the keys to the (Internet) kingdom, who will save us then?

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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