or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Investors › AAPL Investors › Apple CEO hints at no ARM-based MacBook Air as iPad to "soon satisfy" that niche
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple CEO hints at no ARM-based MacBook Air as iPad to "soon satisfy" that niche

post #1 of 74
Thread Starter 
After meeting with Apple chief executive Tim Cook and chief financial officer Peter Openheimer, Citi analysts noted a strong iPad outlook leaving little likelihood of an ARM-based MacBook Air, vast growth potential in China, an indistinct future role for Apple TV, and the strength and importance of iCloud.

iPad expansion, no ARM Macs

Citi analyst Richard Gardner reported Cook reiterating his comment, originally made during the quarterly earnings conference call, that the market for tablets would eventually grow larger than the conventional PC market.

Apple doesn't refer to iPad as a PC, but as a "post-PC device," leaving the ARM-based tablet distinct from the company's Intel-based Macs. Gardner further indicated the meeting dispelled the notion that Apple might introduce ARM-based Macs, countering rumors that a new MacBook Air featuring an ARM processor might appear sometime soon.

Gardner cited Cook as alluding to "rapid innovation on the iOS platform" that will "significantly broaden the use case for tablets," and stated he "walked away from this meeting with the impression that Apple feels iPad satisfies—or will soon satisfy—the needs of those who might have been interested in such a product" as an ARM-based MacBook Air.

Speculation about a MacBook Air or other low end Mac models beginning to incorporate ARM processors has been fueled by rapid advances in ARM's chip designs as well as Microsoft's Windows 8 strategy that envisions future tablet and clamshell PC devices built around ARM chips rather than Intel x86 compatible processors that Windows has historically been tied to as a platform.

While Apple could deliver ARM based Macs, it appears the company is more focused on increasing the desirability of its existing iPad and leaving Macs as a higher end alternative rather than bringing them into directly overlapping use scenarios.

China's huge opportunity

While Apple's sales in Greater China now make up 12 percent of Apple's revenues (up from just 2 percent in 2009), Oppenheimer described Apple as “just scratching the surface” in the region, noting that Apple has yet to establish distribution agreements with the largest mobile carriers, Chian Mobile and China Telecom (which are also the largest carriers globally).

Gardner stated that Citi's "checks suggest that iPhone 5 will support [China's unique] TD-SCDMA [mobile networking protocol] in addition to LTE, opening the door for a distribution agreement with China Mobile this year."

The note also stated that "Apple’s new retail head has been tasked with expanding the company’s store presence in mainland China more aggressively."

Apple's Steve Jobs previously stated that the company's retail stores (then principally in the US) were built to launch iPhone, indicating that the company also plans to prepare for a wider launch in China by aggressively building out a retail presence first.




From hobby to focus: Apple TV

The report also noted that Cook "reiterated the view that costly cable bundles will unravel eventually as one or two key content providers decide to make their content available à la carte" rather than largely being tied up in exclusive agreements with cable operators.

Gardner wrote that Cook's comments suggested AppleTV "would not graduate from 'hobby' to 'focus' unless it could scale across multiple cable operators and multiple geographic regions."

Apple highlighted sales of over 4.2 million Apple TVs over the past five quarters since the company transitioned to an iOS-based device, although after noting the sales figures, Tim Cook said, "in the scheme of things, if you dollarize it, we still classify it as a hobby."

Price sensitivity on iPhones, value of iOS ecosystem and iCloud

Rather than seeming concerned about reaching lower price points for its iPhones and Macs, Oppenheimer indicated the company remained focused on creating "great products" in the belief that customers will pay a premium for them.

Backing up that view is the fact that the premium priced iPhone 4S continued to make the vast majority of Apple's sales in the quarter, despite the availability of the cheaper iPhone 4 and the free with contract iPhone 3GS.

Apple also noted the value of iOS ecosystem, which has now paid out more than $4 billion to third party developers, another factor that attracts and retains the interest of consumers.

Cook also emphasized the role of iCloud, comparing it in importance to the "" strategy Jobs unveiled in 2001 and which shaped virtually everything Apple did over the last decade.

iCloud, which Jobs unveiled last summer at Apple's Worldwide Developer Conference, serves a role in attracting new buyers to Apple's platfoms and retaining them as customers. The company recently noted attracting 85 million subscribers to the service.

[ View article on AppleInsider ]
post #2 of 74
with Apple.. sometimes a "no" means "yes".
"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
Reply
"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
Reply
post #3 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

with Apple.. sometimes a "no" means "yes".

Cook didn't actually say "no," but when Apple suggests no they actually usually mean no.

No... actually Yes

- video iPod

No... no really, no

- Flash on iOS
- Silverlight on iOS
- Java on iPhone
- stylus
- 7" tablet
- WebM
- Xserve
post #4 of 74
It makes sense to me. The Mac is growing in market share this is not time to dumb it down. iPad and Mac can grow while PCs decline.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
post #5 of 74
I just hope Apple doesn't consider discontinuing the MacBook Air because it is such a great product, Apple really has a gem with the MacBook Air.
post #6 of 74
I think it would make more sense for Apple to co-develop special Intel chips for their Macs. Perhaps they could say to Intel that co-developing their own chips would be the only way they would even consider using Intel chips in iOS devices.
post #7 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

with Apple.. sometimes a "no" means "yes".

I could see an ARM-based Mac notebook after ARMv8 (post Cortex) which will be 64-bit. The issue with x86 Mac apps not working isn't an issue because the Mac App Store and an updated SDK will take care of that. Apple has switched CPU architectures many times with great success and has been using OS X for iOS for enough years that I don't see any major hurdles if they went this route.

The question is whether this will be better than Atom or CULV for Mac notebooks in 2014 or later. Intel is actually doing a pretty good job with Atom right now and I don't see them slowing down their progress anytime soon. That might be a better option for Apple if they wish to create a lower-end Mac notebook, especially since Thunderbolt seems to be tied to Intel and Apple for various reasons.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #8 of 74
First off comments about potential future products often have lots of wiggle room. Apple often dismisses competeing technologies until they have their own solution. Case In point iPods, especially flash storage iPods.

As to iOS devices, I take the comments to indicate that they are indeed thinking about broadening the iOS devices line up. You can't meet diverse users needs on the back of one device. So while I don't know exactly what Apple is up to I expect that they will be delivering new or heavily refactored devices relatively soon. That could be a 7" device, a more capable Touch or something entirely different.

I suspect that Apple realizes that the tablet game is theirs to loose right now. One way to loose is to ignore the market for physically different sized devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Cook didn't actually say "no," but when Apple suggests no they actually usually mean no.

No... actually Yes

- video iPod

No... no really, no

- Flash on iOS
- Silverlight on iOS
- Java on iPhone
- stylus
- 7" tablet
- WebM
- Xserve
post #9 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by WardC View Post

I just hope Apple doesn't consider discontinuing the MacBook Air because it is such a great product, Apple really has a gem with the MacBook Air.

The MacBook Air would be the last Mac they ever discontinue. It seemed pretty clear to me in 2008 that Apple saw the MacBook Air as the future of PCs (in the generic sense), and it should have become obvious to everyone in July 2011 when they dropped the base MacBook.
post #10 of 74
iAAPL
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #11 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

One way to loose is to ignore the market for physically different sized devices.

Just like they lost the phone market because they kept a 3.5" screen. Or how they lost the PMP market by not supporting FLAC or WMA.

Wait

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #12 of 74
Seriously the performance difference between ARM and Intel is so massive right now that this isn't even a practicle concern. It will be a couple of years before ARM will have a solid 64 bit platform and at this point there is no sense in even considering 32 bit systems for a Mac OS based device.

The AIR is a gem no doubt. Mind you IVY BRIDGE will turn that gem into a fine jewel effectively addressing GPU performance issues. Along with the nice GPU boost we will see about an 8% increase in performance from the CPU. ARM is very long way from delivering the sort of performance that comes with Intel Hardware.

Note that ARM can hit or even exceed the clock rate of Intel hardware used in the AIRs but that is 32 bit hardware with performance no where near the Intel per clock. In any event I think Cook is on thE right track here, people that don't need the laptops performance or capabilities will quickly migrate to an iPad like device. Add a keyboard for desk usage and you are all set. The big limitation with iPad isn't processing power anyways, it is internal storage that limits the device. In the context of storage it is interesting that Apple is looking to coming iOS devices to better take on or replace laptops.

March is going to be very interesting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WardC View Post

I just hope Apple doesn't consider discontinuing the MacBook Air because it is such a great product, Apple really has a gem with the MacBook Air.
post #13 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Just like they lost the phone market because they kept a 3.5" screen. Or how they lost the PMP market by not supporting FLAC or WMA.

Wait

Your arguements is hog wash. For one the pocket is a different place to store something than compared to iPad like devices. But what is more interesting it the PMP arguements or the lack of any supporting your position.

There was many factors in Apples success with Music. One key element was continual evolution of the hardware, some of which was tailored to specific uses. Like wise Apple evolved the content and successfully engineered an agreement with The record companies for both better quality and open content (DRM free).

The fact is if you look at both the hardware and software sides of the PMP business over the years you will see that my arguements are supported by Apples actions in that business. Apple has morphed that business significantly over the years.
post #14 of 74
Just to be a little more accurate in the 'mobile standards' description: CDMA Is part of the 3GPP2 family - Qualcomm is just one of the vendors that participate to the standards.
post #15 of 74
They won't need to transition the MBA to ARM because we'll probably see a 13" iPad next year.
post #16 of 74
In answer to the ARM based MacBook Air, since when does Apple follow suit with microsoft ? It's clearly been microsoft consistently follows Apple in OSes, phones, mp3 players, tablets, etc

Cheers !
Cheers !
Reply
Cheers !
Reply
post #17 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

They won't need to transition the MBA to ARM because we'll probably see a 13" iPad next year.

I hope not. I don't see the point in having a bigger device that you still can't type on.
post #18 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by WardC View Post

I just hope Apple doesn't consider discontinuing the MacBook Air because it is such a great product, Apple really has a gem with the MacBook Air.

I think you can feel safe that would not happen. At least not until all Mac notebooks became "Air like". Then they may transition Air into something that blazes a new trail.
post #19 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Rather than seeming concerned about reaching lower price points for its iPhones and Macs, Oppenheimer indicated the company remained focused on creating "great products" in the belief that customers will pay a premium for them.

Backing up that view is the fact that the premium priced iPhone 4S continued to make the vast majority of Apple's sales in the quarter, despite the availability of the cheaper iPhone 4 and the free with contract iPhone 3GS.

Thats one way of looking at it. Another way is that an iPhone plan for any of those devices is the same, minimum $75 a month, average $100.

When you commit to a $2,400 2 year contract, it doesn't matter if they're giving it away for free. You're going to spend the small amount of extra money to ensure you have a quality device for that 2 years.
post #20 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

They won't need to transition the MBA to ARM because we'll probably see a 13" iPad next year.

I don't know about 13", which seems a little big, but I sure do hope for a slightly larger iPad, about 11.8", 2048 x 1536 (double the current resolution), coupled with a good dock and a keyboard cover like the Zagg (but with full size keys like the 11" Air).

This would make it a more viable notebook replacement for more common use cases, it would make it a much better magazine and illustrated book reader (size does matter), and it would reduce eye fatigue for those older than 40.

I see the format as a complement, not a replacement. Just like today we have two sizes of Airs, there would be two iPad sizes.

By the way, if the above does not happen I would love to see an ARM based Air. The point is not to make it cheap or low end. The point would be the all-day, worry-free battery life. If you spend all day with email and basic office apps, you don't need the high performance of an Intel chip.
post #21 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBRSTREETG View Post

I hope not. I don't see the point in having a bigger device that you still can't type on.

I can touch type on my iPad. Your argument isn't valid.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #22 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Just like they lost the phone market because they kept a 3.5" screen.

They clearly haven't lost the phone market, but a few more options on size and maybe a phone with a physical keyboard would have made it much harder for Android to do as well as they have done.

There were multiple iPod models from the classic all the way down to the shuffle. Laptops have ranged from plastic MacBooks to high end Pros models and ultra portable models, with a variety of screen sizes. The iPhone is the one area where Apple hasn't other much variety, and this helped Android manufacturers.
post #23 of 74
Intel is no slouch. By the time Apple finished a transition from Intel to ARM, the Intel chips would be a lot more power efficient anyway.

And breaking Windows compatibility would be a big mistake. Based on how quickly software on the Mac App Store is improving, I estimate I will need my Windows partition for 1 more year before I can finally delete it.
post #24 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I can touch type on my iPad. Your argument isn't valid.

I can't touch type on the iPad but with the screen perhaps 3 inches above the fingers it isn't really an issue to me to just look. it's not like I'd be bobbing my head up and down like crazy like I'd have to do if I couldn't touch type on a keyboard

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #25 of 74
Apple are rumored to merge iOS and OSX. That would lead to ARM macs.

Performance is the only reason not to use ARM and we are seeing that stuff are "fast enough" according to Apple. Why wouldn't Apple release Mac Pro if they really thought that performance was important?

Updating the MacPro line is something that is done with minimal work for Apple since Intel designs the motherboards. Everything else is reused.

2006--2011 Intel have doubled its performance
2006--2011 ARM have 17 times more performance.
Intel are "lazy" since they don't have competition on X86.
We all know that Intel can clock their stuff 30-40% faster if they wanted since 2006. Intel is just maximizing profit since they don't have to bin stuff anymore.

ARM "needs" 64 bit so programs can use more then 4 gig memory (ARM can already use more then 4gig memory since they have 38bit memory addressing)
+
a good interconnect between ARM cores.

With a great interconnect Apple could stack ARM processors 8 cores, 16 cores. Apples great multithreading with UNIX and Grand central dispatch could use all cores (something Windows cant)

The insane thing is that you could have 150 ARM cores at the same power envelope as 1 6 core Xeon.

BTW Nvidia is working on a 64bit ARM SoC that was planned to be release this year, but they are 1 year late at least + they have 8 core ARMs on their road map for this year. Some rumors even about a 16 core ARM.
A 16 Core ARM15 at 2.5 ghz would draw about 10-15 watt with graphics. This would compete with the Macbook Air processors that Intel have at 1.6-1.7ghz. The ARMs would be much faster in multithreaded, cost 80% less and draw much less energy. Win/Win.
post #26 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I can touch type on my iPad. Your argument isn't valid.

I think thats good for you but I write a lot of code and I can do it on an iPad but I won't. It's one of those cases of some thing that you can do but really shouldn't because it makes no sense. Writing hundred of line of code and writing research papers is what I do and it makes no sense to do it on an iPad no matter how big it is.
post #27 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBRSTREETG View Post

…it makes no sense to do it on an iPad no matter how big it is.

Okay. That's your opinion.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #28 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Intel is no slouch. By the time Apple finished a transition from Intel to ARM, the Intel chips would be a lot more power efficient anyway.

And breaking Windows compatibility would be a big mistake. Based on how quickly software on the Mac App Store is improving, I estimate I will need my Windows partition for 1 more year before I can finally delete it.

You know that its impossible with X86 to be power efficient? The architecture makes the CPU to large. Large CPU leads to heat, more cost and more energy.

X86 is many things. Not fastest, not most power efficient. X86 have always "won" since
Windows support it and that processor are cheap compared to RISC processors. Remember that RISC went 64bit in 1995 and that first with Win7 64bit is widespread in the X86 world. And that is with 64bit extensions, not true/pure 64bit.

The funny thing with X86 64bit is that programs runs slower with it. Programs that don't use more then 4 gig memory are in average 2% slower on 64bit then 32bit. This is something that never have happened before. From 16-->32bit dramatic performance increase. On real 64bit processors. Dramatic performance increase 32--->64bit.

Intel have the greatest manufacturing process in the world. The competition are 2 years behind. Even with this, Intel cant manufacture a decent low powered SoC that can be used in mobile devices.

The X86 phones that are introduced in 3-6 month have a singe core 1.3ghz that turbos to 1.6. In single threaded programs its faster then Cortex9. But Intel won't compete with Cortex9 in 6 month. They will have to compete with ARM15.

At the same power envelope as the Intel SoC at 1.3ghz you get a quod core 1.8-2ghz ARM15 core. We are talking 4 times the power.

Intel needs to uncripple its SoC and produce it with latest processing node for it to have a chance. But Intel wont do that. They don't want to compete with ARMs 6 cent per core strategy. Intel wants to sell expensive processors. A good, cheap Intel would just hurt Intel's bottom line.

Apple have a unique edge against Intel/X86/Android
Since Apple controls its platform and makes its own SoC they can design the SoC to their specification. This leads to that Apple uses NOVA SIMD acceleration. This is something Intel/Android never can use since they don't control the platform. Every single A4+ Apple product have SIMD. An educated guess is that iOS 6 will be A4+ only meaning that everything can be accelerated by SIMD since every device will support it. Google supriced me with their answer. Since not every Android device have SIMD, they accelerated stuff with GPU in Android 4. Apple can use both SIMD and GPU. Something that Apple have lots of experience with since OSX have been accelerated using Altivec and Quartz extreme since 2002.

Intel have never been good at SIMD extensions. RISC have always lead the way, probably since most RISC vendors control their OS/Hardware and can accelerate stuff.

Bookmark this:
Intel will be a niche processor in 5-8 years. They will have the "performance" market, gaming and "fast enough" servers.
Lowend ARM
Middle end ARM
Highend Intel/SPARC/POWER and all other exotic processors.

Intel will OEM ARM manufacturing with their great fabs.

People seems to believe that X86/Intel always have been/Will be the greatest. 15 years ago:
Lowend companies: Diskless clients to Xservers. Home computers X86
Middle end Intel
Highend SPARC/IBM/Alpha. (Intel had 10% market share servers in 2000)
Stuff changes fast in the IT world.

And last, to put things in perspective.
ARM license about 20 billion cores each year. That is what Intel have done in all its lifetime. ARM license more high end ARM cores then AMD have sold in its lifetime.
The averege Ipad costs more the the averege PC.

Phones and Tablets will replace almost all desktop computers within a couple of years. (many users will have faster Ipads then their PCs starting with A6)
post #29 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Seriously the performance difference between ARM and Intel is so massive right now that this isn't even a practicle concern. It will be a couple of years before ARM will have a solid 64 bit platform and at this point there is no sense in even considering 32 bit systems for a Mac OS based device.

The AIR is a gem no doubt. Mind you IVY BRIDGE will turn that gem into a fine jewel effectively addressing GPU performance issues. Along with the nice GPU boost we will see about an 8% increase in performance from the CPU. ARM is very long way from delivering the sort of performance that comes with Intel Hardware.

Note that ARM can hit or even exceed the clock rate of Intel hardware used in the AIRs but that is 32 bit hardware with performance no where near the Intel per clock. In any event I think Cook is on thE right track here, people that don't need the laptops performance or capabilities will quickly migrate to an iPad like device. Add a keyboard for desk usage and you are all set. The big limitation with iPad isn't processing power anyways, it is internal storage that limits the device. In the context of storage it is interesting that Apple is looking to coming iOS devices to better take on or replace laptops.

March is going to be very interesting.

'

Raw power. Yes. Intel is faster.
But you can program stuff better with RISC and SIMD. In 2002 the fastest PC was AMD 1.5ghz. Encoding a DVD took 15 hours on AMD. On Powerbook 667mhz it took 90 minutes thanks to Altivec.

Intelligence is something that Apple have and elegance is better then raw power. Raw power is for Windows since they cant optimize anything since there are millions of different PC configurations.

You are also comparing 130 watt Intel to 2 watt ARM.
Macbook Air have a power envelope of 17 watt. We are talking 1.5-1.8ghz with 2 cores/4 threads.
ARM 15 2.5 Ghz cod core will match Intel in multithread environment. Probably even beat them. ARM will be a bit slower in single threaded, but not by much.

In the Macbook Air case: Intel costs 400 dollar. ARM15 costs 30 dollars. Intel draws about 35 watt with motherboard and GPU. ARM draws 2.5 watt.

I guess that almost no people on these forums have worked with anything else then X86.
Oracle/Sun with Solaris/SPARC and IBM with Power are in a different league in performance then X86.
post #30 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBRSTREETG View Post

I think thats good for you but I write a lot of code and I can do it on an iPad but I won't. It's one of those cases of some thing that you can do but really shouldn't because it makes no sense. Writing hundred of line of code and writing research papers is what I do and it makes no sense to do it on an iPad no matter how big it is.

I need to haul tons of gravel, so cars suck for everyone.
post #31 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post

I don't know about 13", which seems a little big, but I sure do hope for a slightly larger iPad, about 11.8", 2048 x 1536 (double the current resolution), coupled with a good dock and a keyboard cover like the Zagg (but with full size keys like the 11" Air).

I hope Apple copies the Asus Transformer concept, that dock is perfect with it's additional battery to charge the tablet and the very sturdy mounting really turning it into a netbook
post #32 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

It makes sense to me. The Mac is growing in market share this is not time to dumb it down. iPad and Mac can grow while PCs decline.

This baby is here to stay. More like Apple will move towards MacBook Air Pro in the future. The MacBooks with a HHD and one of those DVD thingies will look archaic and a thing of the past.

Floppy drive - Zip drive - Super drive - iCloud (or equivalent as I'm not convinced with Apple's offering - DropBox for me)

I'll be retiring my old MacBook and purchasing the new MacBook Air 13" on the next refresh.
post #33 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Apple are rumored to merge iOS and OSX. That would lead to ARM macs. ...

Assuming the first sentence to be true, the second does not necessarily follow.

Quote:
The insane thing is that you could have 150 ARM cores at the same power envelope as 1 6 core Xeon. ...

But, this is an interesting observation.
post #34 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

But, this is an interesting observation.

Like this one from HP with 288 arm cpu's per 4U...
post #35 of 74
Hi DED, for the chart, may I suggest update for iPhone 4S re: 14.4mbit down not just iPhone 4 re: 7.2mbit down. It's possible, I can hit ~10mbit down on Telstra "NexG" if I'm within 5km or so from the CBD, which I've seen through tethering to my Mac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

post #36 of 74
Listening now to Deus Ex: HR soundtrack while reading this... I have to say youve got some good points.

The killer is this: User Experience for beginners with ARM devices are light years ahead of x86 devices at the moment... Intermediate users are already using ARM devices for "simpler" tasks. The bottom is about to drop out of the desktop PC market, and in five years I can't see ARM not kicking x86 ass for most beginner-intermediate tasks (whatever that may mean to someone).

I think Intel is too complacent to fab ARM in the next few years though, even though if they started tomorrow you know they will be laughing all the way to the bank throughout this decade. For the next few years Intel will be burning a lot of resources fighting ARM when they could be making lots off it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

You know that its impossible with X86 to be power efficient? The architecture makes the CPU to large. Large CPU leads to heat, more cost and more energy.

X86 is many things. Not fastest, not most power efficient. X86 have always "won" since
Windows support it and that processor are cheap compared to RISC processors. Remember that RISC went 64bit in 1995 and that first with Win7 64bit is widespread in the X86 world. And that is with 64bit extensions, not true/pure 64bit.

The funny thing with X86 64bit is that programs runs slower with it. Programs that don't use more then 4 gig memory are in average 2% slower on 64bit then 32bit. This is something that never have happened before. From 16-->32bit dramatic performance increase. On real 64bit processors. Dramatic performance increase 32--->64bit.

Intel have the greatest manufacturing process in the world. The competition are 2 years behind. Even with this, Intel cant manufacture a decent low powered SoC that can be used in mobile devices.

The X86 phones that are introduced in 3-6 month have a singe core 1.3ghz that turbos to 1.6. In single threaded programs its faster then Cortex9. But Intel won't compete with Cortex9 in 6 month. They will have to compete with ARM15.

At the same power envelope as the Intel SoC at 1.3ghz you get a quod core 1.8-2ghz ARM15 core. We are talking 4 times the power.

Intel needs to uncripple its SoC and produce it with latest processing node for it to have a chance. But Intel wont do that. They don't want to compete with ARMs 6 cent per core strategy. Intel wants to sell expensive processors. A good, cheap Intel would just hurt Intel's bottom line.

Apple have a unique edge against Intel/X86/Android
Since Apple controls its platform and makes its own SoC they can design the SoC to their specification. This leads to that Apple uses NOVA SIMD acceleration. This is something Intel/Android never can use since they don't control the platform. Every single A4+ Apple product have SIMD. An educated guess is that iOS 6 will be A4+ only meaning that everything can be accelerated by SIMD since every device will support it. Google supriced me with their answer. Since not every Android device have SIMD, they accelerated stuff with GPU in Android 4. Apple can use both SIMD and GPU. Something that Apple have lots of experience with since OSX have been accelerated using Altivec and Quartz extreme since 2002.

Intel have never been good at SIMD extensions. RISC have always lead the way, probably since most RISC vendors control their OS/Hardware and can accelerate stuff.

Bookmark this:
Intel will be a niche processor in 5-8 years. They will have the "performance" market, gaming and "fast enough" servers.
Lowend ARM
Middle end ARM
Highend Intel/SPARC/POWER and all other exotic processors.

Intel will OEM ARM manufacturing with their great fabs.

People seems to believe that X86/Intel always have been/Will be the greatest. 15 years ago:
Lowend companies: Diskless clients to Xservers. Home computers X86
Middle end Intel
Highend SPARC/IBM/Alpha. (Intel had 10% market share servers in 2000)
Stuff changes fast in the IT world.

And last, to put things in perspective.
ARM license about 20 billion cores each year. That is what Intel have done in all its lifetime. ARM license more high end ARM cores then AMD have sold in its lifetime.
The averege Ipad costs more the the averege PC.

Phones and Tablets will replace almost all desktop computers within a couple of years. (many users will have faster Ipads then their PCs starting with A6)
post #37 of 74
A wise move.

It is similar to Apple delaying the release of mid devices/larger iPhones. There is always that danger that a mid device negates much of the need for having a tablet and a phone.
They all may arrive when it becomes certain that Apple have little choice in the matter.
post #38 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I can touch type on my iPad. Your argument isn't valid.

But you can't type a degree symbol, or any Greek letter like micron symbol or theta which we use all the time in science. You can't type an m-dash or superscript or subscript, plus/minus or approx equal. For science the iPad sucks at typing. But then again all one really needs to do in life is post to Facebook.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #39 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

But then again all one really needs to do in life is post to Facebook.



That makes me depressed.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #40 of 74
I think Apple probably has more than one plan in place. One would involve converging iOS and OS X and perhaps moving Macs to ARM. The other would involve the iPad replacing the Mac. It's a question of where the market goes. Either way I think that 5 years from now they'll only have one platform.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: AAPL Investors
AppleInsider › Forums › Investors › AAPL Investors › Apple CEO hints at no ARM-based MacBook Air as iPad to "soon satisfy" that niche