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Worker abuse petitions to be delivered Thursday at Apple's Grand Central store - Page 3

post #81 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

If somebody buys and uses Apple products, yet whines like a big pussy about Apple and even goes so far as to protest against Apple, then that is the definition of a hypocrite.

I am a bit torn on this because as is often pointed out... Apple is being unfairly singled out even though all their peers are just as guilty. It's not like I can say "I don't want to support a company that lets such abuses occur in the manufacture of their products." and then go buy something else. The only non-hypocritical choice would be to not buy any electronics, textiles, or plastic product ever again. Obviously that is not very practical.

On the other hand... I understand why some of Apple's customers might come to expect more from Apple as opposed to Dell or HP. We like to think that Apple is a better company in all regards. Boycotting all Chinese made products is not practical, but perhaps these people are taking the next best course of action and applying public relations pressure on Apple.
post #82 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

Yes. Just as protesting slavery while eating/wearing products produced by slaves would be hypocritical. Clearly the answer is that slavery NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROTESTED, since it would have meant starvation, right genius?

To give Apple a "pass" on human rights violations because everyone that is offended by it (read: people possessed of the slightest decency) don't immediately cast off all products produced within the paradigm of capitalism and live wild and free like the wolves is ridiculous.

If you want to bury your head in the sand and argue that children in China don't deserve our concern on the grounds that they are chinese, fine.

There are A LOT of people who don't view the world through the nationalistic, ethnocentric, and xenophobic filters that color your meagre moral canvas.

Passing an imaginary national border, to those of us not steeped in the ideologies of a half-witted tribalist dogma, is not at all tantamount to entering into a realm of psuedo-existence where ethical judgments are put on standby until the goods are safely transported back to "reality." As far as I am concerned Alabama and Hong Kong are equally incomprehensible, but the fact that I can't place myself in those contexts doesn't by any means make me eager to apply toto caelo opposed ethical standards to the existence of "Unknown Humans X" and "Unknown Humans Y."

This thread is, by and large, an exhibition of the perverse and pathetic lowliness of the standard 150-200 lbs sack of American refuse. Still, despite your profound unloveliness, I would still contend that you should be given a chance to express your existence with dignity and freedom; whether you choose to do so is another matter.

Boy you are really spewing the diatribe you have been indoctrinated with. This line really cracks me up.... "an exhibition of the perverse and pathetic lowliness of the standard 150-200 lbs sack of American refuse". So I guess that means you weigh either less than 150lbs or more than 200lbs.

If you feel so strongly, you should sell all your Apple products, and all your other worldly goods, and move to China and help all those Chinese workers.
post #83 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by joebloggs View Post

While I also think that these protesters are misguided and ignorant, your post is really scary. You don't seem to be able to make up your mind whether they're liberals or fascists or nazis (concepts that are mutually exclusive). And your propensity to insult and threaten physical force against people who have different viewpoints to your own seems to indicate that maybe you are the Nazi?

It's not threatening physical force, it's called self defense. Leftist protesters are very violent and there is more than ample evidence of that. I see what the Occupy Wall Street crowd is like since they've infected my city, so I have first hand knowledge of what these people are like and I was merely pointing out that I do not take kindly to any protesters obstructing my freedom of movement or blocking my access to any place.
post #84 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

So Apple unilaterally pull out, HP et al stay in, and Apple goes out of business.
No one has been helped, and way more hurt.

Brilliant.

Maybe Foxconn should shut down and let a million Chinese people starve. I bet that would make those protesters happy.
post #85 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by msimpson View Post

Boy you are really spewing the diatribe you have been indoctrinated with. This line really cracks me up.... "an exhibition of the perverse and pathetic lowliness of the standard 150-200 lbs sack of American refuse". So I guess that means you weigh either less than 150lbs or more than 200lbs.

If you feel so strongly, you should sell all your Apple products, and all your other worldly goods, and move to China and help all those Chinese workers.

Perhaps the failing American economy is a result of a populace that thinks prescriptions such as this count for pragmatism. Presumably you'd suggest to vegans that the best way to prevent animal abuses is to be made into a hamburger? I suppose if I oppose spousal and child abuse I should get punched in the face by a coward?

Yes, I see how all of those scenarios are infinitely improved by your strategy.

Where regards my weight, I am hovering right at the border of 200 lbs, hopefully on the lighter side but more often than not on the heavier, so I'd watch what you say, tough guy.
post #86 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

Presumably you'd suggest to vegans that the best way to prevent animal abuses is to be made into a hamburger?

I would suggest that vegans do not continue to eat meat while they supposedly protest against hamburgers, which is pretty much what these so-called Apple protesters are doing.
post #87 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

THEN SHUT UP, HYPOCRITES.

Sorry, they can't be "HYPOCRITES"...

You have to know what you are talking about in the first place, to be one...
post #88 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmrtzzz View Post

This discussion is embarrasing. Even if Apple is doing not so bad, it always can do better. And as one of the world's biggest companies (in shareholders value) it should. Especially with all that money in the bank. And everyone loving Apple should be supporting initiatives like this.

Sure. Apple can do better. That's why they audit their suppliers. That's why they punish suppliers who don't meet their standards. That's why, in general, Apple is the only electronics company that is working to improve conditions in China.

So why is Apple the only one being criticized? By any rational standard, all these people should be signing petitions PRAISING Apple for leading the way to improving conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen View Post

I think we are talking about a double standard. I'm not sure what you would name a person who holds a double standard though...

Fandroid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaeth View Post

Without getting into a ridiculously long discussion about the state of the chinese workforce and the laws that govern it...I think its generally accepted that the Foxconn factory has some pretty shady a$$ practices, at least by western standards, and western companies should be holding themselves to a higher standard.

It has one of the best reputations in China - which is the standard they are measured by. You can't measure them by western standards any more than you can reasonably petition Walmart and complain that they have a 40 hour work week and 2 weeks vacation while if the employees were in France, they'd have a 34 hour work week and 6 weeks vacation. Why is it OK to expect China to meet U.S. standards, but not to expect U.S. companies to meet French standards?

OTOH, Foxconn provides free housing and meals for their employees which U.S. companies usually don't do. So why aren't you picketing U.S. companies for not meeting Foxconn standards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Maybe Foxconn should shut down and let a million Chinese people starve. I bet that would make those protesters happy.

That's the crux of the issue. The people working there are happy to have a job - especially since it's one of the best entry level jobs in China.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #89 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I would suggest that vegans do not continue to eat meat while they supposedly protest against hamburgers, which is pretty much what these so-called Apple protesters are doing.

Not eating meat is a poor method of ensuring the well-being of animals, although you could perhaps claim moral impunity on the subject (an internal victory, to be sure, and being as I've just stated I'm over 200 lbs, you may hypothesize that it isn't a victory which I can claim.)

Again, it wasn't a cotton boycott that ended slavery in the US. It is foolish to suggest anything of the sort. You can push the issue aside with any manner of illogical moral masturbation, but why bother? You can even more easily remain content with the thought that the powers that tend the status quo are overwhelmingly indifferent to the plight of the lower class, where ever they are, and whatever language they speak. Victory for the good guys, eh pal?

The humanist response, seemingly, would be to demand American businesses not engage in activities that would be considered unethical if they were conducted in the United States. A fairly low threshold, actually. Maybe such a thing could be hoped for, but I'm not holding my breath.
post #90 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

Perhaps the failing American economy is a result of a populace that thinks prescriptions such as this count for pragmatism. Presumably you'd suggest to vegans that the best way to prevent animal abuses is to be made into a hamburger? I suppose if I oppose spousal and child abuse I should get punched in the face by a coward?

Yes, I see how all of those scenarios are infinitely improved by your strategy.

Where regards my weight, I am hovering right at the border of 200 lbs, hopefully on the lighter side but more often than not on the heavier, so I'd watch what you say, tough guy.

Your arguments and analogies are total nonsense. A punch in the face? A hamburger?

Better analogies might be... if a child abuser protests against child abuse, are they a hypocrite? If a meat eater protests against animal abuse, are they a hypocrite? If a person who uses products made in China protests against the working conditions in China, are they a hypocrite?

And I am a 90 lb Chinese worker.
post #91 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

You think Apple will look at a petition like this and think OH GEE WE NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THIS CHINA THING MAYBE WE SHOULD LOOK INTO IT..

Well, actually, I think they will. I signed the petition for 'green apple' a few years ago, and wow, did they listen. I like my Apple products but I'll like them even better if the company takes the lead in fair laborconditions. Question: what does it harm you to sign it?
post #92 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Yeah, I didn't think so either. So what's the word for this situation? It's really close to hypocrisy...

Double Standard.
post #93 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

An activist group plans to hold demonstrations at Apple retail stores around the world Thursday, with a main gathering held at Apple's Grand Central Terminal location, to highlight claims of worker abuse by the iPhone maker's overseas component suppliers.

These people need to be reasoned with, not physically attacked, as some on this thread have encouraged. They've been misguided by a rash of media pieces long on emotions and short on facts. And the last thing Apple needs is a physical confrontation in proximity to its retail stores.

Educate them that Apple is only playing by the rules, or lack thereof, that we as a country permit, and even then they do more to protect workers rights and environmental stewardship than their competitors. Educate them that, if you don't like the rules, then work to vote people in who will change them across the board. Educate them that, at the very least, they should go picket Apple's competitors until they rise to Apple's level of involvement in these matters.
post #94 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmrtzzz View Post

Well, actually, I think they will.

He's making the point that they've known about the situation for a decade and have been improving it since then. The nonsense that has cropped up since the last quarterly earnings report is just that–nonsense.

Quote:
Question: what does it harm you to sign it?

Makes me look like an idiot. Apple has been doing more work over there than virtually any other company already and still they whine at Apple and ONLY Apple about making things better.
post #95 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by msimpson View Post

Your arguments and analogies are total nonsense. A punch in the face? A hamburger?

Better analogies might be... if a child abuser protests against child abuse, are they a hypocrite? If a meat eater protests against animal abuse, are they a hypocrite? If a person who uses products made in China protests against the working conditions in China, are they a hypocrite?

And I am a 90 lb Chinese worker.

You seem to be confused.

If the people protesting Apple owned technology companies that exploited cheap chinese labor to keep their profit margins high then they would be hypocrites.

Again, protesting slavery, while wearing a shirt that was made with cotton that was picked by a slave, was an effective means for ending slavery, and I doubt anyone would call it "hypocritical" in retrospect. Or maybe you would? Having the expectation of any person with the slightest moral inclination that they abstain from all things that were composed through unethical practices would be to ask for the end of human progress, or again, living wild and free with the wolves... and by wolves I don't mean Americans, as easy as they are to confuse... I mean real wolves. Undoubtedly, those who reap the most reward for the exploitation of millions might want to keep things as they are, but many others think human dignity should be preserved and encouraged.

Different strokes, I guess.
post #96 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmrtzzz View Post

Well, actually, I think they will. I signed the petition for 'green apple' a few years ago, and wow, did they listen. I like my Apple products but I'll like them even better if the company takes the lead in fair laborconditions. Question: what does it harm you to sign it?

1) The harm for me is personal. It violates my principles to sign this petition.

2) Post hoc, ergo propter hoc on thinking you signing a petition a few years ago led Apple's continued (not start of) green initiative.

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post #97 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaeth View Post

maybe i misunderstood you, you responded to me and i thought you were saying that if you used ANY product from china you were supporting companies like foxconn.

What? You mean by having above average worker conditions? Mainland chinese workers don't like foxconn because the chinese from Taiwan are bossy and arrogant. Not because Foxconn is paying below average rates or have horrid working conditions compared the national average.

If they were there wouldn't be lines of folks trying to apply for jobs in their new plants. Some from other Foxconn factories to be a little closer to their home province.
post #98 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

It's not threatening physical force, it's called self defense. Leftist protesters are very violent and there is more than ample evidence of that. I see what the Occupy Wall Street crowd is like since they've infected my city, so I have first hand knowledge of what these people are like and I was merely pointing out that I do not take kindly to any protesters obstructing my freedom of movement or blocking my access to any place.

Sorry - I obviously misinterpreted your statement that "If I happen to be near any Apple store (I'm not that far away from Grand Central) and there are some douchebags trying to disrupt access or trying to interfere with my business and restrict my freedom of movement, then I will not hesitate to use physical force to put these protest nazis in their place." I suspect the law does not treat someone blocking your access to a shop the same as someone attacking you - when you would be justified in using self defense. It seems Americans pride themselves on, and defend, their right to protest, except when they don't agree with the protesters. Then they want to use violence against them.
post #99 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic View Post

What a bunch of idiots. Demonstrating at locations of the one company that has, is trying and has committed to making things better for the workers who assemble Apple' products.

Worked for Greenpeace.
post #100 of 161
Mark Shields is an ignorant twit who has no clue what he is doing! His claim: "At Foxconn, one of Apples biggest manufacturers, there is a history of suicides, abusive working conditions, and almost no pay. These working conditions are appalling, especially for Apple."

This is a production facility, not a resort! The reality is, when you actually look at the facts, that the suicide rate for high school students in the US is higher than at this facility which employees over 400,00 workers. Where is the petition to improve our education system Mark? And as to "almost no pay" - that is total BS! Foxconn pays better than prevailing wages for factory workers in China. This guy is a misguided moron! This whole misguided and misleading effort is fueled by profiteers and opportunists like Mike Daisey - the tickets to his show based on Apple are $75 - $85! Mike, why don't you send that money to China to help the poor innocent workers instead of just exploiting them? Oh, that's right. Because they are already saving money on their own PLUS sending money home to their poor rural families to help lift them out of poverty.
post #101 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbsteph View Post

Welcome to the "agenda" of the liberal/progressive/OWS crowd. If these groups ever takeover - I can hardly wait for the anarchy or Big Brother) society they will produce.

Put a sock in it! I'm a liberal progressive that argues everyday against the suppressives of the repuglican and tea parties but still knows that the arguments and supposed "facts" that these moron protesters use are BS...
post #102 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmrtzzz View Post

This discussion is embarrasing. Even if Apple is doing not so bad, it always can do better. And as one of the world's biggest companies (in shareholders value) it should. Especially with all that money in the bank. And everyone loving Apple should be supporting initiatives like this.

Its all about CONTEXT: The Apple Boycott Graphically Explained http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst...ally-explained
post #103 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmrtzzz View Post

Well, actually, I think they will. I signed the petition for 'green apple' a few years ago, and wow, did they listen. I like my Apple products but I'll like them even better if the company takes the lead in fair laborconditions. Question: what does it harm you to sign it?

Wow, it's a good thing you signed that petition then. You and the others who signed it are definitely the reason Apple's products are 'green' (whatever that even means'

God you're naive.

And I'd sign a 'make Apple products even more green' petition anyday-cause why not? What I won't sign is a petition that contains language that I don't agree with, that promotes ignorance more than facts, and that doesn't have a stated goalpost. The wording contains so much misinformation, hyperbole, and falsities which should be obvious to anyone that has a clue about Apple and China. That single sentence from shields contains like 5 pieces of disingenuous information:

Quote:
"At Foxconn, one of Apple’s biggest manufacturers, there is a history of suicides, abusive working conditions, and almost no pay. These working conditions are appalling, especially for Apple."

- history of suicides? Like everywhere else on earth? As in lower than the China average? There is nothing notable about the suicide rate at Foxconn. Its not higher than anywhere else, and LOWER than comparable places, and even the US as a whole. Strawman.
- Abusive working conditions? What does that mean exactly? Less hours than similar manufacturing plants, and higher wages? Cause those are facts.
-Almost no pay: Just bullshit, as Foxconn has higher pay than almost anyone in that industry in China.

So yes, it would harm me to sign it, as I'd be signing and agreeing with what amounts to a big lie in my eyes, which to me looks like nothing except self promotion by jumping on a bandwagon. You know what I would sign? A petition urging more companies to meet Apple's standards.
post #104 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) The harm for me is personal. It violates my principles to sign this petition.

2) Post hoc, ergo propter hoc on thinking you signing a petition a few years ago led Apple's continued (not start of) green initiative.

The "Green Movement" began as a grassroots movement and became a marketing slogan only later. Whatever "benefits" have been derived from it could easily be ascribed to the grass roots origins, at least partly, and at the very least it would be reasonable to assume that a widespread trend toward "environmentally friendly practices" (viewed from any metric by which you'd judge the diaspora thereof) has not been a product of corporate overzealousness in the realm of altruism, but rather a response to pressures from without. Those pressures should not be confused with the "vote with your wallet" bit, which is summoned only in the presence of the most inveterate naiveté. Perhaps a forward looking company might see the tides of a social re-inscription, as it were, contextualizing certain behaviors in an ominous light, but this is still unrelated to the silliness mentioned above.
post #105 of 161
I wonder how many Ferrari workers own one.
post #106 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkevwill View Post

I wonder how many Ferrari workers own one.

I would imagine engineers at Ferrari are well compensated, and they probably work reasonable hours with ample benefits.

To answer the question, probably quite a few.
post #107 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

So why aren't people complaing about the other companies?

because it's orchestrated by Samsung? nah NOT

I'm surrounded by idiots. Of course the people gathering the signatures ask a stupid PC questions like "Do you think apple should be held responsible for...." and like sheep they sign when if fact they know norhing about what they are signing and they want to look good.

The world is full of do gooders poking their noses in to things they know nothing about. because it makes them feel good , following causes and bolstering their little ego's. Makes em feel like they have power when they don't.

Like most things it has a momentum for a short time and fades into nothing after a while and then they move on to the next hysteria. Nothing new here.

Originally by Rickers - 2014 : Cook & will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost so long.



 Originally Posted by  thataveragejoe :  Next week  Korea Times, "I'm gay too"-Samsung



 



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Originally by Rickers - 2014 : Cook & will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost so long.



 Originally Posted by  thataveragejoe :  Next week  Korea Times, "I'm gay too"-Samsung



 



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post #108 of 161
Targeting Apple is such BULLS**T! What about Samsung or other Asian companies that dump their products on our market? How many jobs have these companies created in the U.S.? Fact: Apple employes nearly 50,000 in this country alone. Their Applications Stores have created nearly 500,000 jobs in this country as well.

The tide has changed - the manufacturing jobs in China are NOT coming back. At least Apple is working on the problem of working conditions over there, but is anyone else (and by anyone else, I mean literally EVERYONE producing goods from clothing to electronics)?

Why is it fashions that cost about $15.00 in materials and labor from over there, sell for $50-$100. over here and no one seems to give a damn about that, at least not anymore.

Of course it's always more effective for crap journalists to pick on the most successful company to make their point regardless of whether or not their point holds water.

So buy all means, continue to bitch while your buying your 100% designed and manufactured items from China and Korea.
post #109 of 161
History of suicides?

Do these ignorant dipshits know that around a million people work for Foxconn?

Statistically speaking, just this week a few of them probably got pregnant, four people had heart attacks, 7% cheated on their wives, and yeah, maybe somebody offs themselves every once in a while . That's fucking life.
post #110 of 161
BRAVO! That's what I call hitting the nail on the head! Shields is a completely uninformed bonehead!
post #111 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

Yes. Just as protesting slavery while eating/wearing products produced by slaves would be hypocritical. Clearly the answer is that slavery NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROTESTED, since it would have meant starvation, right genius?

To give Apple a "pass" on human rights violations because everyone that is offended by it (read: people possessed of the slightest decency) don't immediately cast off all products produced within the paradigm of capitalism and live wild and free like the wolves is ridiculous.

If you want to bury your head in the sand and argue that children in China don't deserve our concern on the grounds that they are chinese, fine.

There are A LOT of people who don't view the world through the nationalistic, ethnocentric, and xenophobic filters that color your meagre moral canvas.

Passing an imaginary national border, to those of us not steeped in the ideologies of a half-witted tribalist dogma, is not at all tantamount to entering into a realm of psuedo-existence where ethical judgments are put on standby until the goods are safely transported back to "reality." As far as I am concerned Alabama and Hong Kong are equally incomprehensible, but the fact that I can't place myself in those contexts doesn't by any means make me eager to apply toto caelo opposed ethical standards to the existence of "Unknown Humans X" and "Unknown Humans Y."

This thread is, by and large, an exhibition of the perverse and pathetic lowliness of the standard 150-200 lbs sack of American refuse. Still, despite your profound unloveliness, I would still contend that you should be given a chance to express your existence with dignity and freedom; whether you choose to do so is another matter.

Fuck off, Dean and go sign the petition.
Hmmmmmm...
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post #112 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Fuck off, Dean and go sign the petition.

Charming.
post #113 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

Charming.

Thank you.
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #114 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Thank you.

You're quite welcome.
post #115 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

You're quite welcome.

See, Mods, we're all pals here.
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post #116 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaeth View Post

I would genuinely like to know why the vibe here seems to be that because other people do it, its acceptable? I assume your response is going to be something like...because no one is complaining about the other companies, but thats just faulty reasoning. Two wrongs, or 100 wrongs, don't make a right...

I'm still not sure why you are taking Apple to task for problems in Microsoft's factory.

Apple has already come out on the record to say that they are endeavoring to improve conditions for workers in their factories, and despite the negative press that they get from the chinese labour union, said union also admits Apple is doing alot more for workers rights than any other tech manufacturer.

Perhaps the chinese people should petition their government for laws to better protect/compensate workers. Perhaps they should also petition the owners of the local and Taiwanese manufacturing companies for the same. Chinese company executives (and government officials) are more to blame for workers being taken advantage of than foreign corporations, and are profiting handsomely for doing so.

Edit: I should add, I have no problem with people being concerned with the working conditions under which the products they purchase are made. I don't see why a consumer of Apple products (or Nike, or Nintendo etc etc) can't concern themselves with these issues - it doesn't have to be a binary proposition. However, I do take issue with one company being singled out, especially when said company is actually doing more than any other in it's industry. And one should also consider other factors, not just look at it as a simplistic case of western exploitation of a weaker third world nation - it's not the "Eight Foreign Powers" sacking the Summer Palace - China will never let that happen again.
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
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"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
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post #117 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It has one of the best reputations in China - which is the standard they are measured by. You can't measure them by western standards...

Coincidentally China's argument about human rights abuses within the PRC is exactly this.
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
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"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
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post #118 of 161
and to help spread the word, all these protesters will use their iPhones to send emails to all their friends using iPhones (and other phones made by FoxConn in China).

That'll teach 'em...
post #119 of 161
These posts are ridiculous. I can't believe people are saying "well everyone does it so lets just ignore the problem". Apple is sitting on a pile of cash. Stock prices are affected mostly by revenue and growth. There is no reason they can't give all their overseas workers a raise. It would significantly improve their lives and cost Apple almost nothing. This protest is simply saying Apple can do better and it should think different and show other companies how to do things. It's easy to sit in your home, with air conditioning, food in the fridge, TV and internet on demand and ignore the fact that most people don't have these luxuries. You have absolutely no idea what it's like to be these people. Your careless attitudes are embarrassing.
Andrew
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post #120 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

You already are. Including your clothes etc

Please adjust your sarcasm meter. Thank you.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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