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Google says it won't support fair licensing in open standards as Apple, Microsoft, Cisco have - Page 4

post #121 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by inkswamp View Post

Why does it have to be Apple? Right now, I'm finding Bing search and maps meet or exceed Google's offerings and have switched all my search defaults. There's a rare occasion where a Bing search fails and I fall back to Google, but the point is that the competition is there. Disconnect from Google and move on. I have. It's really not that hard.

And FWIW, I didn't dump Google because they are Apple's competitors. I couldn't give a rip about that. I dumped Google because their search engine really isn't that good any more and because their search results are overloaded with ads and paid placements. That and their admittance that G+ was an "identity service" made me move on. Google used to be indispensable but not any more. They've spent too much time and energy working on stuff outside their main competencies that the core products have lagged massively.

You can always fall back on this:-

https://startpage.com/

Use Google search without Google knowing who you are.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #122 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Going to the source of your link, the ever reliable FOSS Patents blog, I found this:-



http://fosspatents.blogspot.com.au/2...t-dispute.html

Although I usually post links like this:-

Source

"ongoing royalties" with no description of how those "ongoing royalties" are determined or whether those "ongoing royalties are based on "number of iPhones sold" or not.

This is a link I posted earlier in regards to this, I direct your attention specifically to parts C and D.

Refer to the previous link, revoking the licenses of chipmakers means the patent isn't exhausted when used in a device, making demands for payment on the entire cost of the device possible.
http://articles.law360.s3.amazonaws....doc_num-93.pdf

Here it is again, specifically parts C and D.

Your links simply don't verify either of your claims. There's no suggestion in Parts C or D that Moto's termination of Chi Mei's license was aimed only at Apple unless you see something I missed. That's one of the claims you made that I had questions about.

I also don't see any support for your other claim that Moto was charging a 2.25% royalty on just the chip, nor that it's something standard in the industry. Again I could be missing something so feel free to be more specific.

Honestly it's of no real matter as I don't think proof of those claims exists (yet?). I was simply showing mild irritation at your frequent challenges to posts I've made, sometimes with rudeness or disrespect. FWIW I don't think you've ever shown any of them to be incorrect, nor have I been disrespectful in return, so a little courtesy would be appreciated. Questions are fine. Unsupported accusations of "making things up" and such, not so much.
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #123 of 132
Please, enough of this tripe from Dilger. He's an interestingly flamous fanboy, but this can't be called anything that approaches journalism. Take him off of the standard RSS feed, please. Some of us want insider news, not insider propaganda. It's easy to predict which articles are his, but I'm tired of having to slog through them.
post #124 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Understand that this has nothing to do with royalties and everything to do with attempting to put an end to the largest part of the smartphone IP wars. Once the cross-licensing is out of the way, and it will be at some point IMO, you'll see the same or even better level of innovation but much less in legal distractions.

The things being argued now, even by Apple and MS, are the basic elements of smartphones and who should get revenue for them. I believe that eventually a set of smartphone standards will be put together and bundled as FRAND-encumbered, but that point hasn't been reached yet.

No we are well past that point because the communications capabilities are independent of the terms smart phone and feature phone.

Moto is breaking all the prior agreements because 9% of the phones are making 57% of the total mobile industry profit, and oto only has a small share of the 33% industry profit shared by 91% of the rest of the phones. The mostly worst part for Moto is Samsung makes the lions share of that 33% themselves with its smartphones.

Moto spent a near decade offering "new" RAZRs and is now all but toast because there isn't any way for them to make money anymore other than attempt to completely redefine how patents are licensed.
Thier lawyer said it best, paraphrasing except for the quoted parts ~~~we can charge that because "it only takes one bullet to kill". Without our one patent the whole product cannot be made because we say so. None of the other IP means anything to us, give us 2.25% for this one. Then when you pay that we will tell you the next one we are going to ask another 2.25% for, because hey! "it only takes one bullet to kill!" -- and I have another, and another... ~~~
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post #125 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

...For a charity/nonprofit and any other businesses related to sustainability, it's hard to stick with Google... also thinking of Google Docs...

You make very valid points here, in that it is becoming risky to base your business upon Google. Sooner or later they'll screw you. Either because your privacy will be compromised (changes in license agreements...), or because they'll start charging for the service, or they may just plainly suspend some services.
post #126 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

You can always fall back on this:-

https://startpage.com/

Use Google search without Google knowing who you are.

There are two problems with Google search - and that only solves one of them.

The first problem is loss of privacy - and your solution helps with that.

The second problem is funding Google via advertising. Google still gets credit with their advertisers everything they feed you a search page with ads - whether they know who you are or not. Your solution continues to funnel money to Google.

Better to use a different search engine. Bing isn't bad. I use it 99% of the time and only switch to Google if Bing doesn't give me the answer I need.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #127 of 132
I haven't read every post here and someone may point this out, but this is completely IDIOTIC the way this article is presented.

The reality is Apple and Microsoft both have incredibly strong patent portfolios and would LOVE to use them to destroy Google and Android by suing them to oblivion. Google acquired Motorolla as a defensive move against such lawsuits.

To sit here and act like Google is the bully, is idiotic. Go read any non-biased news outlet and you will realize that Google is on the defense against larger companies with bigger patent portfolios and a long record of suing over said patents. Google had barely any patents before Motorolla. Apple has thousands. Apple has went after Motorolla, Samsung, and almost every Android handset maker in an effort to derail Android. Android manufactures were screaming for help and Google had no way to fire back.

So Google gets ammunition, and now suddenly everyone wants to say, "Let's all be reasonable." That wasn't an option a year and half ago when Google had no power. Now suddenly they want to play "fair".

I am about to go buy a Macbook this weekend. So I like Apple, but you people are just flat out being lied to by the idiots that run this site. Patent wars are just the nature of the tech business, and Apple is among the most litigious and protective. That is not opinion but fact.

insult removed
post #128 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednival View Post

I haven't read every post here

Perhaps if you did you'd have a better appreciation of why everything you said in your post is wrong.
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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post #129 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednival View Post

I haven't read every post here and someone may point this out, but this is completely IDIOTIC the way this article is presented.

The reality is Apple and Microsoft both have incredibly strong patent portfolios and would LOVE to use them to destroy Google and Android by suing them to oblivion. Google acquired Motorolla as a defensive move against such lawsuits.

To sit here and act like Google is the bully, is idiotic. Go read any non-biased news outlet and you will realize that Google is on the defense against larger companies with bigger patent portfolios and a long record of suing over said patents. Google had barely any patents before Motorolla. Apple has thousands. Apple has went after Motorolla, Samsung, and almost every Android handset maker in an effort to derail Android. Android manufactures were screaming for help and Google had no way to fire back.

So Google gets ammunition, and now suddenly everyone wants to say, "Let's all be reasonable." That wasn't an option a year and half ago when Google had no power. Now suddenly they want to play "fair".

I am about to go buy a Macbook this weekend. So I like Apple, but you people are just flat out being lied to by the idiots that run this site. Patent wars are just the nature of the tech business, and Apple is among the most litigious and protective. That is not opinion but fact.

insult removed

Well, you don't do yourself any favors for not reading. Lets put it in storybook terms you lack of attention might actually make it through.

Google+Moto has brought a jacknife to a gunfight, and then says it wants a unprecedentedly large share of everyone else's action, even though once upon a time Moto accepted an agreement for years of small but steady income streams from the FRAND sure thing.

The collective fights won't end well for Moogle.
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post #130 of 132
OK-let me break this down. I'll do the best I can with my feeble, little mind...

Quote:
The reality is Apple and Microsoft both have incredibly strong patent portfolios

This is a fact. Plain and simple chart - This shows that prior to purchase of Motorola, Google had fewer patents than both Microsoft and Apple.

Quote:
and would LOVE to use them to destroy Google and Android by suing them to oblivion

An opinion but many articles were written that agree with this point of view. Go use Bing or some other search engine you'll believe is unbiased and look for Google Android Lawsuit.

Quote:
Google acquired Motorolla as a defensive move against such lawsuits.

It is known, and even disclosed, that the acquisition a defensive move to acquire patents.

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Google had barely any patents before Motorolla. Apple has thousands.

OK. Whoops. I don't know how many patents Apple has. My bad. +1 wrong.

Quote:
Apple has went after Motorolla, Samsung, and almost every Android handset maker in an effort to derail Android.

We know Apple has sued. Article mentions is. We can argue all day as to "why", but my opinion is that it is to stop Android. Not exactly a unique opinion. Many people smarter than me agree with that statement.

Quote:
Android manufactures were screaming for help and Google had no way to fire back.

This article supports this and actually backs other opinions/thoughts I shared.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

So what here is wrong? My opinion?

You guys can say what you want, but all I am saying is if you poke a bear with a stick one too many times, you're going to get bit.

Is Google being unfair by continuing Motorola's practices? Absolutely.

My only point is that the companies that are attempting to demonize Google are FAR from saints when it comes to patent litigation.

Also, the article says Google accused the Microsoft, Oracle, and Apple of a "bogus" "patent attack". I don't see the source for this quote. Opinions vary as to whether these "patent attacks" are "bogus". Otherwise there would not be court cases to decide whether or not they are.

Maybe the issue is that instead of reading forum posts by Apple fans on an Apple inspired blog, I actually went out and read articles from other sources I have a little more faith in. Whoops +1 wrong again..shucks

I also find it interesting they you can insult me, but my insults toward Apple Insider get removed and reported.

I guess I is just so dumb my feelings don't count no more. Gee, ya know, I am is kind of sensitive. Dumb people is like that.

Oh...and FYI...I love my new Macbook.
post #131 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednival View Post

OK-let me break this down. I'll do the best I can with my feeble, little mind...


This is a fact. Plain and simple chart - This shows that prior to purchase of Motorola, Google had fewer patents than both Microsoft and Apple.



An opinion but many articles were written that agree with this point of view. Go use Bing or some other search engine you'll believe is unbiased and look for Google Android Lawsuit.



It is known, and even disclosed, that the acquisition a defensive move to acquire patents.


OK. Whoops. I don't know how many patents Apple has. My bad. +1 wrong.



We know Apple has sued. Article mentions is. We can argue all day as to "why", but my opinion is that it is to stop Android. Not exactly a unique opinion. Many people smarter than me agree with that statement.



This article supports this and actually backs other opinions/thoughts I shared.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

So what here is wrong? My opinion?

You guys can say what you want, but all I am saying is if you poke a bear with a stick one too many times, you're going to get bit.

Is Google being unfair by continuing Motorola's practices? Absolutely.

My only point is that the companies that are attempting to demonize Google are FAR from saints when it comes to patent litigation.

Also, the article says Google accused the Microsoft, Oracle, and Apple of a "bogus" "patent attack". I don't see the source for this quote. Opinions vary as to whether these "patent attacks" are "bogus". Otherwise there would not be court cases to decide whether or not they are.

Maybe the issue is that instead of reading forum posts by Apple fans on an Apple inspired blog, I actually went out and read articles from other sources I have a little more faith in. Whoops +1 wrong again..shucks

I also find it interesting they you can insult me, but my insults toward Apple Insider get removed and reported.

I guess I is just so dumb my feelings don't count no more. Gee, ya know, I am is kind of sensitive. Dumb people is like that.

Oh...and FYI...I love my new Macbook.

What's wrong is your blind interpretation of the facts from a Google is the only victim point of view. That completely changes the meaning of each of them. You mention Google getting sued, but only Oracle has done that. Not Apple and nor MS, taking a lot of wind out of the MS+Apple are out to get Google sails.

And we all know the Moto buy is a defensive Google move. Specifically because 48 hours before the first Google offer Moto declared it's intent to launch a full patent assault on the other Android manufacturers with the explicit promise to file for injunctions against every device. Just because Google was legally extorted into bailing out the Moto board doesn't mean the Moto deal is of much use defensively against anyone else. Especially since Moto thinks they have magic bullets against Android, but have been largely unsuccessful against iOS (Moto's lone clear victory so far is iCloud related). Apple and Microsoft have countersued Moto and so far Apple has half of Moto's case thrown out. Them's defensive patents used offensively aren't doing so well, but Google wasn't given a chance to figure that out in the rush to stop the Moto vs Android lawsuits.

Apple is trading lawsuits with product manufacturers Apple contends is using their IP. Primarily HTC, Samsung and Moto. Why defend Google other than because they wrote Android? Apple hasn't drug them in. There is already plenty of MS IP licensed in Android, Apple isn't interested in licensing that way, but wants the infringers to invent their own methods, so they end up in court rather then settle early for a license fee. It's not surprising that an OS essentially generated from scratch without a couple decades of OS related IP behind it is challenged with having to defend it's originalness. Its an awfully damn hard a task to contemplate, especially with the public history the Android project has.

Also, Apple doesn't want to eliminate Android so much as make the Android community develop their own widget rather than copy and incrementally tweak what is largely the iPhone platform GUI. There are ways to offer similar capabilities, but execute them differently, Mac OS, OS X, DOS, Windows,Solaris, Linus, the BSDs etc all essentially coexisted and did similar user tasks in their own unique ways (minus the early Apple/MS spat over a granted license that Apple very poorly wrote). So there is plenty of precedent for doing similar stuff that the non iOS OSes can use as inspiration for creating heir own niches in the mobile world. The real question is why haven't some of them? I don't hear any Win7 Phone or Web OS suits with regards to Apple either as plaintiff or defendant, so it certainly is possible.

Nothing out of the ordinary once you get past that, let the courts settle it and don't get personally invested in someone else's business. So yeah, take your feelings out of it, because it's not personal, its business. And it's not YOUR business, it's all those other guys.

And when you started out with your previous post by saying you didn't read the thread, I'm not surprissed that you haven't done the requisite background research before commenting. Here's the common knowledge reference to Google claiming Apple and Microsoft are attacking Google http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/...k-android.html. Notice that's "The Official Google Blog" so no claiming that it's a lone employee with his own opinion, not the company's.
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post #132 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

Nothing out of the ordinary once you get past that, let the courts settle it and don't get personally invested in someone else's business. So yeah, take your feelings out of it, because it's not personal, its business. And it's not YOUR business, it's all those other guys.

Hey, I am having fun here. I don't take it personally until you insult me for not doing research. Because I do. You and I may come to a different conclusion, and that's fine with me, but don't insult my intelligence because we do not agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

And when you started out with your previous post by saying you didn't read the thread, I'm not surprissed that you haven't done the requisite background research before commenting.

Stop claiming I haven't read up on the issue because I don't agree with your opinion. I have many sources and I sited some of them above. I certainly do not have much faith in opinions of Apple fans regarding Android. Besides, I DID read the article. The site makes it seem that this thread is where you comment on the article. So I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

You mention Google getting sued, but only Oracle has done that. Not Apple and nor MS, taking a lot of wind out of the MS+Apple are out to get Google sails.

Microsoft has sued Google (maybe you should try reading something OTHER than this tread...just sayin)

TECHNICALLY you were correct about Apple (they have sued now- look it up). Apple sues every major Android handset maker and you say it wasn't an assault on Android and they didn't sue Google? OK, OK, it was just an assault on nearly all Android PHONES that run an OS supplied by Google. Is that what you want me to say? To me it is saying the same thing different ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

Specifically because 48 hours before the first Google offer Moto declared it's intent to launch a full patent assault on the other Android manufacturers with the explicit promise to file for injunctions against every device.

Sources. Have NEVER seen this. Searching for it and cannot find it, but it is hard with all the recent Google/Apple/Motorola news. And don't insult me with a, "see you haven't done your research". Even if true, this would have only a slight impact on my opinion. I know that Motorola is a turd. Never said they weren't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

There is already plenty of MS IP licensed in Android, Apple isn't interested in licensing that way, but wants the infringers to invent their own methods, so they end up in court rather then settle early for a license fee.

Wow, you are EXACTLY right. Apple wants to ensure it has a monopoly. It patents every little idea it can and then tries to sue to prevent ANY competition. I am OK with patents on hardware, but I take issue with many patents that exists on software.

With that in mind, I will say that I think Samsung deserves to be sued. I think it goes WAY too far in copying the look and feel of Apple products. I think it taints Android in general, honestly.

That said, having used both Android and iPhone, I think the rest of Apple's lawsuits have less weight. I really don't believe other handset makers try to rip off Apple's ideas or infringe their patents. If they do, they suck at it, because iPhone and iPad still work WAY better than any Android device I have touched. The differences are fairly staggering.

And I think Apple not licensing patents is a mistake, if for no other reason it will be used against them if antitrust litigation ever heads their way. For the record: I HATE anti-trust litigation and I am not saying they deserve it. But if they keep selling iPhones and iPads the way they are, someone will sue them. If only be in the European Union (where I think some countries are already investigating).

Microsoft had to license because they are well aware of the anti-trust implications. Besides, they are making a killing on Android. Probably more than they make on Windows Phone [snicker].

Finally...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

What's wrong is your blind interpretation of the facts from a Google is the only victim point of view.

Bull. Not because I think Google is the only victim, but because I think they are all making WAY too much money for us to call any of them a "victim". The whole thing is victimless in my opinion.

Apple keeps breaking records every quarter. Pretty soon they'll be able to BUY Google. They're a bully.

Google is no slouch either, and they are really doing a 180 over this patents. They are losing PR battle, so now they're a bully.

I just feel that they are all about equally evil when it comes to patents and the article just reeked of, "See how bad Google is about patents", and I could not handle that coming from an Apple fan site. I think Google is now on equal terms with Apple and THAT is my only point.

God, I hate to say it, but Microsoft is probably the one I feel sorry for. Why? Because they are so irrelevant in this whole thing it is just sad. There is a big party going on and Microsoft is in the corner of the room saying, "Hey, we have Windows Phone 7!"

And no one cares...

As for RIM (not mentioned but i had to comment)...

They deserve to die miserable death because they had just about killed the smart phone until Apple came along.

Peace out.

[EDIT] PS-this is going on my profile
I love technology. I have a Macbook and an iPad.
I have a Gmail account, Android phone, and was instrumental in my company using Google Apps.
I bought and really liked Windows 7, own and XBox360, and think Microsoft gets to much grief from you Apple people.

I just want the fanboys to all get along and stop acting like their side does no wrong.
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