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Workers' rights petitions delivered to Apple's Grand Central store - Page 2

post #41 of 138
2/9/12 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Shut down the manufacturing. Nuke the site from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure.

LOL

Now lets see what Red has to say. I want to see if he/she is as naive as what I'm expecting.
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post #42 of 138
2/9/12 at 4:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

Nobody is claiming these other companies aren't also at fault. This is just a start. Apple does a better job than all these other companies but it doesn't mean they can't do better. Especially with all this cash laying around. This misconception that the price of Apple products will go up is wrong. It will just make Apple slightly less profitable.

... and what about the other companies?
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post #43 of 138
2/9/12 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

Nobody is claiming these other companies aren't also at fault. This is just a start. Apple does a better job than all these other companies but it doesn't mean they can't do better. Especially with all this cash laying around. This misconception that the price of Apple products will go up is wrong. It will just make Apple slightly less profitable.

That's awfully noble of you, telling companies that you don't own how to spend their money that you don't have.

This type of personal sacrifice makes you a true humanitarian in my book!
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post #44 of 138
2/9/12 at 4:45pm
The employees were given wage increases not that long ago.

Anybody who complains should send them their own money. Do something about it yourself, don't whine and expect other people to do what you think is right, no matter how perverse and disgusting your own thoughts may be. It is not Apple's responsibility and Apple does not employ those people.

Go fly to China and protest in front of one of Foxconns factories. Foxconn makes hundreds of millions each quarter in profit. Tell them to pay more. And while you're at it, you might want to overthrow the Chinese government and change the entire Chinese culture while you're there, because that is where the core issues lie.
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post #45 of 138
2/9/12 at 4:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

The employees were given wage increases not that long ago.

Anybody who complains should send them their own money. Do something about it yourself, don't whine and expect other people to do what you think is right, no matter how perverse and disgusting your own thoughts may be. It is not Apple's responsibility and Apple does not employ those people.

Go fly to China and protest in front of one of Foxconns factories. Foxconn makes hundreds of millions each quarter in profit. Tell them to pay more. And while you're at it, you might want to overthrow the Chinese government and change the entire Chinese culture while you're there, because that is where the core issues lie.

I've heard that Apple has taken the first step in addressing many of the concerns expressed here.

They've just changed their catchphrase from "We build great products" to "We build great factory conditions".
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post #46 of 138
2/9/12 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

Nobody is claiming these other companies aren't also at fault. This is just a start. Apple does a better job than all these other companies but it doesn't mean they can't do better. Especially with all this cash laying around. This misconception that the price of Apple products will go up is wrong. It will just make Apple slightly less profitable.

You sound like a real humanitarian and a pretty generous person.

There's this homeless family down the street from me with two children who look like they haven't eaten in 17 days. I think that you should send them some money and help them out. It won't affect you much, it will just make you slightly less profitable.

And as opposed to Apple, which is a for profit company beholden to stock owners, I assume that there are no such outside forces or pressures which might affect or influence any decisions that a humanitarian such as yourself would make.
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post #47 of 138
2/9/12 at 5:24pm
Foxconn also makes the xBox and many other devices - but the order size from Apple must lead the pack. Has anyone listened to this podcast at:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...-apple-factory
Mike Daisey has interviewed ex staff at the Foxconn factory in Shenzhen.
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post #48 of 138
2/9/12 at 5:52pm
Accepted by the employee, taken round the back and shredded. Job done.
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post #49 of 138
2/9/12 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

And as opposed to Apple, which is a for profit company beholden to stock owners, I assume that there are no such outside forces or pressures which might affect or influence any decisions that a humanitarian such as yourself would make.

I hope you do realize that stock prices are mostly affected by value and growth. Decreasing profit margins by a few dollars wont do anything to the stock and would mean a lot to these people.

Everyone is this thread is pretending the problem doesn't exist. There have been independent investigations and everyone is coming to the same conclusion. They are overworked and treated like slaves. People here are arguing that because other companies do it that Apple should be able to get away with it too. Yeah, Apple is trying harder than other companies but they aren't trying that hard. Conditions are improving but we need larger and swifter action.

These hard working people are the reason you can afford your iPod, iPhone, and Macs. They are the only reason Apple can continue building great products and you can afford to buy them. We can sit here and try to justify their crappy incomes and lives with all kinds of excuses or we can treat them with dignity as fellow humans. This protest isn't trying to say Apple is evil, it's saying that a lot of people support this idea and would like to see something done about it.
Andrew
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post #50 of 138
2/9/12 at 6:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

It's crystal clear by now that the European style socialist ideals are a complete failure, and we need to get back to the way things were in the '50s and grow this country again. Let the Chinese worry about China. Their future and working conditions are up to them, not us.

We would have to go back to the 1940's, and have the majority of the world's manufacturing infrastructure outside of North America blown up during a world war, before we can have the economic growth seen in the 1950's ever again.
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post #51 of 138
2/9/12 at 6:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

Everyone is this thread is pretending the problem doesn't exist.

Everyone?!

I'd tell you the same thing I told that other guy yesterday but the mods would probably get upset.

We know the fucking problem exists. We don't need naive little buggers like yourself telling us how we should act and think and I'm sure Apple and the other companies also don't need you telling them how to think either.

I want to hear exactly what you would do to rectify these problems. The last person to whom I asked that same question got strangely quiet.
We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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post #52 of 138
2/9/12 at 6:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

Who does Foxconn work for?

Foxconn work for themselves. As do all other profit making enterprises in the world. Apple are merely one of their customers along with Dell, HP etc etc.

Now, all a customer can do to improve things is to say they won't do business with them until they improve things. However, to do this you have to have another supplier you can go to for your products or services. As there are no other viable suppliers there is only so Much the customer can do other than stop producing goods and going out of business.
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post #53 of 138
2/9/12 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I want to hear exactly what you would do to rectify these problems. The last person to whom I asked that same question got strangely quiet.

1. Apple calls Foxconn and demands they pay their workers more, give them more breaks, and work them less hours or they will stop doing business with them. They also start auditing them much more aggressively.

2. If Foxconn doesn't respond, Apple builds it's own assembly factory in China.

See, that wasn't very hard. It just requires firm action. So what's your solution?
Andrew
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post #54 of 138
2/9/12 at 6:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

1. Apple calls Foxconn and demands they pay their workers more, give them more breaks, and work them less hours or they will stop doing business with them. They also start auditing them much more aggressively.

2. If Foxconn doesn't respond, Apple builds it's own assembly factory in China.

See, that wasn't very hard. It just requires firm action. So what's your solution?

What the hell do you think Apple is doing. This is a slow slow process that takes a long time to rectify. If you had any fucking idea of how the world works you'd understand that these things aren't done overnight. [a little bit of knowledge about British and American labor movements would probably, but not guaranteed, teach you something.]

Build their own factory? Are you absolutely out of your mind. Do you really think the Chinese would even allow Apple to upset the balance of commerce in that country?

You are even more naive than I thought.

Soon enough the Chinese will be making high end machinery all across their country and the US and other current developed nations will have the shit jobs. You should consider yourself lucky this doesn't happen sooner than later.

[these kids and their magic wand fixes to problems without having enough knowledge to weigh the consequences]
We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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post #55 of 138
2/9/12 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

What the hell do you think Apple is doing. This is a slow slow process that takes a long time to rectify. If you had any fucking idea of how the world works you'd understand that these things aren't done overnight.

I'm not talking about overnight. It doesn't take 5 years to solve this problem.

So what is your solution again? Keep doing what were doing now? That seems to be working out great.
Andrew
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post #56 of 138
2/9/12 at 6:35pm
99.9% of the goods they sell are made in CHINA. same with WAL-MART, the number 2 brick 'n mortar retailer in the US.
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post #57 of 138
2/9/12 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

I'm not talking about overnight. It doesn't take 5 years to solve this problem.

So what is your solution again? Keep doing what were doing now? That seems to be working out great.

You are not even listening, are you.

It may take 50 years or more to solve this problem.

Yes... keep doing what they are doing now. Slowly and systematically changing the labor situation.
We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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post #58 of 138
2/9/12 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubbytee View Post

99.9% of the goods they sell are made in CHINA. same with WAL-MART, the number 2 brick 'n mortar retailer in the US.

All these little shits that are protesting would have been scared shitless to face Sam Walton when he was alive.
We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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post #59 of 138
2/9/12 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

You are not even listening, are you.

It may take 50 years or more to solve this problem.

I'm just not listening to your opinion.

We're not trying to reform an entire country's labor system. Just one company. You're making this out to be a lot more complicated than it is. If we push hard enough this will get solved very quickly at Foxconn. I guess you're happy with letting the problem resolve itself, even if it takes 50 years. That kind of solution doesn't satisfy me or a quarter of a million other people. We can fix this. There is no need to be so pessimistic.
Andrew
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post #60 of 138
2/9/12 at 6:50pm
When China has a near monopoly on all of the worlds manufacturing, including automobiles, they will probably pass laws requiring high wages and benefits. The Chinese people will be very happy and rich.
Cubist
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post #61 of 138
2/9/12 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

1. Apple calls Foxconn and demands they pay their workers more, give them more breaks, and work them less hours or they will stop doing business with them. They also start auditing them much more aggressively.

2. If Foxconn doesn't respond, Apple builds it's own assembly factory in China.

See, that wasn't very hard. It just requires firm action. So what's your solution?

You just dodged the question there, sunshine.

What exactly will YOU be doing to rectify the problem?

Please keep in mind that the Chinese government and Chinese industry are the same thing when you provide your answer to how you'll be addressing the issue personally.

(Feel free to add your age and any experience you may have in addressing these types of problems previously - it'll lend a lot of credibility to your solution)
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post #62 of 138
2/9/12 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

What exactly will YOU be doing to rectify the problem.

I can't solve this problem. I do not have the resources or influence. I've never claimed I could.
Andrew
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post #63 of 138
2/9/12 at 6:57pm
People are concentrating their attacks on Apple because they know there's no way in hell that Acer, Amazon, ASRock, Asus, Barnes & Noble, Cisco, Dell, EVGA Corporation, Hewlett-Packard, Intel, IBM, Lenovo, Microsoft, MSI, Motorola, Netgear, Nintendo, Nokia, Panasonic, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, Sony Ericsson, or Vizio will do a damn thing about it.
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post #64 of 138
2/9/12 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

I can't solve this problem. I do not have the resources or influence. I've never claimed I could.

So you are saying the individual cannot make a difference, is that correct?
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post #65 of 138
2/9/12 at 7:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

So you are saying the individual cannot make a difference, is that correct?

Not me.
Andrew
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post #66 of 138
2/9/12 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

Not me.

Steve Jobs disagrees with you.
Gandhi disagrees with you.
Hitler disagrees with you.

A LOT of other people disagree with you.

If this really is that important to you, step out from behind your keyboard, go out into the world, and do something other than telling others what to do.
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post #67 of 138
2/9/12 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

I can't solve this problem. I do not have the resources or influence. I've never claimed I could.

The way you're constructing your arguments,, I think you are going to wake up one day realize that lack of resources or influence is not your main problem.

Get a clue.
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post #68 of 138
2/9/12 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

If this really is that important to you, step out from behind your keyboard, go out into the world, and do something other than telling others what to do.

What do you suggest I do? Signing a petition with a quarter of a million other people is a good start.
Andrew
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post #69 of 138
2/9/12 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

I'm just not listening to your opinion.

We're not trying to reform an entire country's labor system. Just one company. You're making this out to be a lot more complicated than it is. If we push hard enough this will get solved very quickly at Foxconn. I guess you're happy with letting the problem resolve itself, even if it takes 50 years. That kind of solution doesn't satisfy me or a quarter of a million other people. We can fix this. There is no need to be so pessimistic.

Put your brain to work, boy.

You can't fix one company without fixing the entire country. You may like to think you can but you can't.

[... and in your world as long as Foxconn is fixed then all the other Chinese laborers who are working in even worse conditions can just go to hell I suppose]
We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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post #70 of 138
2/9/12 at 7:12pm
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Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

What do you suggest I do? Signing a petition with a quarter of a million other people is a good start.

Me telling you what to do would completely invalidate the point I have been making to you.
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post #71 of 138
2/9/12 at 8:33pm
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Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Me telling you what to do would completely invalidate the point I have been making to you.

It's not like I see your point anyways.
Andrew
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post #72 of 138
2/9/12 at 8:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

I hope you do realize that stock prices are mostly affected by value and growth. Decreasing profit margins by a few dollars wont do anything to the stock and would mean a lot to these people.

Everyone is this thread is pretending the problem doesn't exist. There have been independent investigations and everyone is coming to the same conclusion. They are overworked and treated like slaves. People here are arguing that because other companies do it that Apple should be able to get away with it too. Yeah, Apple is trying harder than other companies but they aren't trying that hard. Conditions are improving but we need larger and swifter action.

These hard working people are the reason you can afford your iPod, iPhone, and Macs. They are the only reason Apple can continue building great products and you can afford to buy them. We can sit here and try to justify their crappy incomes and lives with all kinds of excuses or we can treat them with dignity as fellow humans. This protest isn't trying to say Apple is evil, it's saying that a lot of people support this idea and would like to see something done about it.

Have you ever been to Asia? China perhaps?

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post #73 of 138
2/9/12 at 8:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

2. If Foxconn doesn't respond, Apple builds it's own assembly factory in China.

How can Apple build its own factory in China?

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post #74 of 138
2/9/12 at 8:47pm
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Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

How can Apple build its own factory in China?

Put it somewhere else then. You guys are trying so hard not to think.
Andrew
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post #75 of 138
2/9/12 at 8:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

Put it somewhere else then. You guys are trying so hard not to think.

Everything is so easy for you, isn't it? Now I know what kind of people signing this petition. Do you know how poor these Chinese working at Foxconn used to be (before there's Foxconn)?

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post #76 of 138
2/9/12 at 9:04pm
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Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Now I know what kind of people signing this petition.

If the ones taking up the cudgels here are any indication, I'd say the pathetic, poorly-informed, wide-eyed kind that is responsible America losing its competitive advantage to countries like China and India.
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post #77 of 138
2/9/12 at 9:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Everything is so easy for you, isn't it? Now I know what kind of people signing this petition. Do you know how poor these Chinese working at Foxconn used to be (before there's Foxconn)?

Does it really matter how poor they were? This is just another excuse to avoid the actual problem. You are pretending their lives are so great now even though tons of evidence suggests otherwise.

I don't claim to know the solution to the problem. You don't know the solution either. This issue is far too complicated. I'd rather try something than nothing. There is extreme pessimism here.
Andrew
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post #78 of 138
2/9/12 at 9:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

Does it really matter how poor they were? This is just another excuse to avoid the actual problem. You are pretending their lives are so great now even though tons of evidence suggests otherwise.

I don't claim to know the solution to the problem. You don't know the solution either. This issue is far too complicated. I'd rather try something than nothing. There is extreme pessimism here.

I'd rather be pessimistic than stupid.
We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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post #79 of 138
2/9/12 at 9:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I'd rather be pessimistic than stupid.

All you've done is personally attack me. You've offered no solutions except to keep doing what we're doing (which recent investigations show isn't working). I guess you're the smart one here. I couldn't care less and I'm tired of arguing with you. Think whatever you want. Most of the world disagrees with you so I've already won.


"Being the richest man in the cemetery doesn't matter to me. Going to bed at night saying we've done something wonderful, that's what matters to me." - Steve Jobs

Try seeing the value in that.
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post #80 of 138
2/9/12 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

1. Apple calls Foxconn and demands they pay their workers more, give them more breaks, and work them less hours or they will stop doing business with them. They also start auditing them much more aggressively.

2. If Foxconn doesn't respond, Apple builds it's own assembly factory in China.

See, that wasn't very hard. It just requires firm action. So what's your solution?

With that response, you've confirmed to everyone here that you actually don't have any real solutions that could be implemented on planet Earth, and are even more and naive clueless than I thought. Both your points are idiotic and unrealistic for so many different reasons. I'm sure Foxconn executives aren't utter morons. They know for that fact there's nowhere else Apple can go, and that would be an empty and childish threat. As for 2... wow, just wow. Doesn't even deserve a response, and to even suggest such a thing portrays how little you must understand of anything.
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