Apple to disrupt notebook space with radically redesigned MacBook Pros - Page 5

Sounds nice. I picked up a late 2011 around Christmas, but ended up taking it back before the 30 days were up because it wasn't much of an improvement over my 2009 MBP. Maybe it would be different if I needed Thunderbolt functionality, but until peripheral prices drop, that's worthless to me.

Now if this rumor is true, however, and they can deliver MBP power in a more MBA-like form factor, that would be worth the cost of upgrading. I wouldn't really miss the physical drive, as I use usb keys for physical data transfers, and have a high powered desktop for burning DVD's on. Guess I'll just keep my fingers crossed and see what Q2 brings us.

500 GB SSD $1,399.00 (Apple store)
500 GB 2.5" HDD about $80 (amazon)

In 2011, the average price per GB for SSDs was 32 times that for HDs. People on AI have been predicting the demise of HDs in Apple products for years, because they see it as inevitable that Flash memory will continue to decline in price.

It hasn't happened, it's like Nuclear fusion - always just 30 years away.

The predicted demise of the iPod Classic hasn't happened yet either, obviously because people keep buying Classics as SS memory is too expensive at iPod Touch pricing.

If the next pro has no HDD, it will no longer be 'pro', just a gust of warm Air.

I think Apple might solve a lot of issues by eliminating most ports from the main case and relocate them to the power adapter, with just one combined power, ethernet, thunderbird, display, cable with a hybrid fiber and power mag connector.

I wish someone would eliminate the 3.5 headphone jack and create a magnetic replacement. A lot of headphone cables would be saved.

You don't even understand how to construct an intelligent counter-argument.

What about advancing technology makes disk space a non-issue? Oh please do tell me how large hard drives are going the way of floppy disks. I'll just delete this 120GB+ project and tell everyone involved that it's obsolete now, just like floppy disks.


YEP!

It hasn't happened because their are so many vested interests to keep it that way. And that applies to 'cold fusion' as well.

Lemon Bon Bon.

They might not be able to do that if they have the same power consumption as it would reduce the battery size significantly.

I suspect they will, otherwise the 13" would look like it's taking a step back but I prefer non-tapered:



No optical as you can buy a cheap external (even Blu-Ray).
USB 3 to replace FW800 and ethernet (4 ports on 15", 2 on 13").
Thunderbolt x 2 on 15", one on 13".

They have to go with 256GB entry SSD on the 15". Removing the optical saves them $100 and with SSD being around $1/GB, they can get 256GB in the entry model. This means no need for an HDD and they can easily have a BTO option for 512GB for $300.

The alternative is to simply get a USB 3 SSD or portable drive for extra storage. It will only be a hardship for 1-2 years as SSD prices drop.

I expect the 13" slim machine will take the place of the Air and Pro - just one model. That would suggest it has to be tapered with Ivy Bridge dual-core (4-thread) and IGP.

The 15" still quad-core with either NVidia or AMD dGPU.

I think high-resolution displays would add too much cost during the transition so same resolution as we have now.

I personally think the laptops are incredibly fast so I don't expect the CPUs to jump up a huge amount in performance but focus more on lowering power consumption and heat output. Look at the current one rendering Cinebench:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9770So2nZ0Q

That's only 1/4-1/5 of some of the highest-end desktops:

http://www.cbscores.com/

Not that they should stop pushing the performance but it's really not the bottleneck ATM. Move to SSD, put in lots of RAM, drop the power consumption and heat and then start bumping performance again next year.

The bias can be ridiculous. They pick an obviously unattractive machine from a single company and assign it a label to be applied to multiple brands from one render jpeg. Sometimes these articles are just really poor, and I have corrected them at times (such as when they picked the incorrect cpus for the fall mbp refresh). These mac sites all just copy each other and change a few words.


You're asking for too much in such a slim power envelope if they do in fact go thinner with it. I'm not convinced they'll displace the current mbp. If they did that, you'd most likely see a performance drop rather than flat performance with the current model due to the need to migrate to a ulv cpu comparable to the current 13" air. Given the design similarities, I'm not even sure where estimated performance gains are coming from in Ivy Bridge chips.

With ya on this one. Personally I love the current mbp design (if it ain't broke don't fix it) and I need as much portable storage as I can get. Music on cd is my thing and as popular and convenient as iTunes is I prefer music quality over file size so an optical drive is necessary. I'm a photographer so storage and screen quality are top of my list. I'd be happy with upgraded processor and better screen. Ssd are way too expensive and small at the moment.

If Apple dropped the current pro in favour of air case with less power etc then predict a rush for the last of the current offerings.

Omitting an optical drive frees up space for more performance, storage and battery life.

Surely it's easier to carry ten CD disk images in a larger capacity internal hard/flash drive than ten fragile disks in a CD case?
In fact, you can carry those ten CD images in one small $10 8GB SD card that's easier to insert into a Macbook Pro than a single CD.

Floppy drives were eliminated from Macs in the 90s as far superior and capacious removable storage became available.

We're at that same crossroads now with CD and DVD disks.

Is there any compelling reason why optical drives needs to be built in rather than an optional accessory?

This is exactly why I have waited this long before upgrading ANYTHING....

@ Generic Apple can't make it slim without making it slower and more expensive! Comments

What? How do you arm chair engineers have any clue what Apple is not capable of doing? Have you tried making your own 15" MacBook AirPro at home and it just didn't work out??

Know-it-alls, please STFU.

Ha, you and the other 6 people who put CDs into your MacBook Pro to listen to music will have a field day on eBay.

I'm a big fan of lossless audio, but here's the thing...1. 16 bit CD audio is far from lossless, so don't kid yourself, and 2. There are ways of managing that digitally without the totally unnecessary physical media.

So when I hear someone say, "I need my CD drive because I like high quality music", I LMAO, because you obviously don't know what you're talking about, nor do you have the inclination to figure it out.

Perhaps Apple is positioning the notebook line so that it forces people to buy two computers. An iMac for the desk and a slimmed down portable for the road. The strategy worked so well for iPhone owners who went out and bought an iPad.

It would be cool if they made all of the MacBooks thin except the 17" which they could even make beefier with Express card and all of the other legacy ports, big fans and hard drives with extra memory slots and the works. That way, for the few who needed ultimate power on the road, they would have a suitable machine. I would probably buy one of each - a slim 15 and a huge 17.

I'm not following. What do you mean by me asking for too much?

Do you think they will remove the ODD? I do. That will give up a large amount of space for components while also allowing for much more freedom for arranging components since the ODD had to be at the edge in order for the 5.25" disc slot to be useful.

A rough estimate of the ODD is about 150mm x 150 mm x 13 mm. That's 292,500 mm cubed or 18 cubic inches. That's a good amount of savings.

So why would there be a performance drop when they have this extra room and the back of the machine could still be about an inch thick so they can use 35W or 45W TDP CPUs like they do now.

I don't see any reason why a tapering and removal of the ODD would mean they would have to go CULV and thus taking the Pro out of the MBP.

I LOVE it. GONE will be the optical drive at long last making way for a thinner logic board and with that a significantly thinner body. I'm looking forward to USB 3.0 inclusion by way of Intel's Ivy Bridge chipset without the need of an ExpressCard.

And, perhaps most of all, I'd love (L-O-V-E) to see anything in the way of a better display. For example, Retina but no IPS would make me happy. IPS but no Retina would make me happy. Ideally, of course, Retina AND IPS, or at least as an OPTION, would make me ecstatic! Even if it's a $600 option or something similar, I'd happily pay for it.

This'll be sweeeeeet!

P.S.: How about a "Retina" 27" iMac and/or Cinema Display, or is that asking too much?

I hope that's not the case. If they remove the optical drive they should have enough room for decent cooling and the same battery size squished but flattened while still being slimmer than the current ones. I'm even hoping they would have enough thermal headroom to bring the 13' up to the quad core and dGPU's in the 15'. If they didn't, it would just be an Air with no SSD, or if it did have an SSD it would be nearly exactly like the Air. I don't want the Pro 13' to go away, I want it to be what the Pro moniker used to be.

Apple could easily convert the MacBook Air line (the "consumer" line) to ARM SoCs if and when their Ax chips are powerful enough. The technical advantages of an ARM-based MacBook Air would include better battery life, cooler operation, and quieter operation (no cooling fans) among others. OS X originally ran on CISC PowerPC chips, after all. And Apple has apparently tested OS X on ARM-based machines already.

An ARM-based MacBook Air line would also give Apple an even bigger cost advantage. As high-profile as Apple is, they don't buy Intel chips in large enough volume to get the kind of deals they have lined up for iOS device components. For consumers and pros who only need light computing (browsing, email, texting, word processing, spreadsheets, iTunes, iWork, iLife, etc.) switching to ARM would be transparent. Same thing, more efficient chip, lower retail price.

Of course, there will always be the "pro" market. It's a smaller market than the consumer market, but it's more profitable, more finicky, and more conservative about adopting cutting-edge Apple technology. They'll stick with legacy Intel-only software, for the next few years anyway, because leviathans like Adobe and Microsoft will take years to port their bloatware "essential apps" to OS X on ARM. And for that pro market, Apple could continue to offer Intel-based MacBook Pros.

Maybe they'll rename the Intel-based MacBook line to "MacBook Classic."

I'm going to attribute this to I was still waking up at the time . I hope they do not axe half the ports on it or go for a design too slim to accommodate midrange discrete graphics. It's impossible to tell with Apple though. I would still suggest that Appleinsider is trolling all of you. They really have no idea. They're just copying the other Apple sites on something which may have started from anything.

You are correct. There are some people who believe themselves to be engineers, and have no idea what they're talking about, at all.

These people have no vision, or technical knowledge at all.

These people don't even seem to realize how much of the MBP design (and all notebook design) revolved around the Optical drive size/position needs.

By removing Optical form the equation, you must completely re-imagine the innards of a 15" notebook as if you've never built one before. As if one has never even existed. This is what Apple does all the time.

Honestly the whole "no need for an optical disc drive" is the dumbest argument ever.

YOU may not need one. Apple definitely doesn't see the need to support disc based software that they don't control the distribution of through the Mac app store, nor do they see the need to support Bly-ray or DVD since they want you to buy from iTunes.

That's great to have the OPTION of seem least staying in an Apple controlled ecosystem.

But some of us have software recently purchased on disc and won't upgrade for 5 years.

Also, my blu-ray and DVD collections are nice to watch on computer from time to time (yes fully aware apple doesn't support blue ray at this time), without taking up more hard drive space to import using a third party software, or having to purchase AGAiN through iTunes.

We are still heavily entrenched in an age of optical media.

And to say someone should be happy to buy a windows machine to do the things the apple won't is only admitting to the deficiency such a move would create.

Removing optical is a backwards step. I'm not going to be paying for feature removal just so my already thin laptop can rival the iPad in thinness.

I want power and capability in an attractive package. Logic dictates that the new MBPS should be MORE capable than the model it replaces. Not less.

Let's retire the "no need for disc drive" argument right now. It doesn't work.

And the Mac is not an iPhone/ iPad. Those are secondary devices. (even if some people, who use their computers for the same purposes as their Xbox may use it as a primary). Apple should learn from the Final Cut X fiasco. People aren't okay with feature removal traded off with better looks. Apple had to add features back in. The people wanted them. Much harder to do with optical drive. I doubt they want to reengineer the laptop again in one year.

People said the same thing with the first iMac sans floppy drive. You know it's coming so you may as well adjust to external ODD. No amount of arguing is going to avert the course that Apple is on.

Consumers have moved on. When Intel is flogging ODD less MBA clones you know that's the death signal for integrated ODD.

Apple clearly doesn't care about Blu-ray. I told people this two years ago on these boards. Blu-ray was a non-starter with Apple. They likely envisioned getting rid of the ODD 3 or more years ago.

No one is saying that ODD should die but rather it's usefulness as an integrated item in the chassis has passed. Those that still have software on disc are free to purchase an external drive. Many of us want the funds used for the optical drive to be used to beef up other areas of the notebook that we are likely to use more. Like SSD or faster GPU or longer battery.

Does logic also dictate that features the majority need should be built in to the device, features no-one needs should be removed, and features a minority needs should be add-ons?

Because I think we are rapidly approaching the point where ODD falls in to that last category. I know I ripped all my CDs 3 years ago and all my DVDs 18 months ago. I transferred my Windows 7 DVD on to a USB stick. I still have my OS X discs but my 2010 Mac just got Lion Internet restore firmware update last week.

I have a Mac Pro. In addition to the stock Superdrive, I've installed a BD-RE/HD DVD-ROM drive in the second bay. I can play movies directly from the discs and in OS X to boot.


Only because you choose to be. You meaning consumers and the few companies that still print physical media.


Just like removing floppies, ADB ports, and ATA connectors was.

How's that 5.25" drive treating you?


I don't know who you've insulted more there gamers or regular people


Oh, you meant that thing where a bunch of people are whining about how the interface has changed and they're too lazy to relearn their workflow, despite the current model being far superior?


We'll have to see. I last used my optical drive to install Snow Leopard on its launch day. I can imagine many others, both Mac and PC users, have had similar timeframes.

To people who think SSDs are still too small/expensive, yes they are. But think about how many of your files are truly yours (something you created) and how many are just media files (Hollywood movies etc).

I am someone who objects to uploading my personal files to the cloud, but don't object to keeping my media collection there. As long as it is done in an "iTunes Match" fashion where I don't have to actually upload it, Apple just gives me access to their copy.

Once Movies in the cloud is enabled, smaller disks will become a lot more practical.

Indeed. I have seven terabytes in my Mac Pro right now (two for backups, so we can exclude that; leaving 5). A little over a terabyte of that is my iTunes media (ALAC music + a slowly-growing collection of 1080p rips), while my personal stuff is probably just under half a terabyte (there's some raw shot 1080p video source in there, which skews the numbers up). You can see how local media affects disk usage!

'Course I'm in the camp that feels more comfortable having EVERYTHING local. Cloud syncing of calendars, contacts, e-mail, and eventually preferences and a few documents? Sure! But I'd prefer everything I own on a computer I own. That way if someone tries to tell me I don't own the stuff I've paid for (or that my files not only aren't, but never were), I can just laugh in their face and open it right on my machine. That's really my only remaining concern with The Cloud as a concept.

actually, cd's can produce a better sound on hi-fi stereo systems than playing lossless music right off ripped files. I've tried playing flac, ape files with programs like amarra on my imac and on my pc while using USB DACs like bladelius' DAC converter (i have tried a LOT of different ways). nothing provides distinct and clear layering of sounds like a cd burned with my plextor drive. yet i still have terabytes of lossless music stored in hard drives for future cd burning. notice how i refuse to use my headphone jack for audio output. but this refers to burning cds with a custom built desktop pc.

laptops can't provide a stable consistent enough power to its cd burner and thus are not able to produce a good sounding cd. this is also the reason why the correct way to output music from a desktop computer is through USB because it actually provides enough power. but my point is, if burned correctly, CDs can provide a purer sound on stereo systems than lossless.

but the thing is, laptops playing right off a cd is not even close to the same audio ripped off the same cd with a lossless codec. so optical drives on laptops ARE in fact pretty much useless now. and i totally support apple removing it for more storage space on top of an SSD on a macbook pro. as much as dvd/cd drives are still needed, i just don't think its needed on portable computing anymore.

Most of the 100+ CDs that I have are not music. They are software. Although the majority may be older versions and or windows software. I have always meant to encode them all into ISO files an with my 12TB array I finally can. Then again I have little use for at least half of it as it is not compatible with either intel based macs or 10.7

The overwhelming majority of the files on my work MPB were created by me, or my team.

Putting then onto any cloud would get me fired / possibly sued. So they stay local.

That's the problem. Who controls the data. Are you in control of your own data? And if you're not, maybe it's not really your data?

With the media industry making laws and de-facto controlling or trying to control judiciary and executive, keeping everything local is a smart bet. The law is being eroded in this country and now websites can be shut down without court order and basically based on the whim of someone who feels the website is infringing on their copyrights. Guilty until proven innocent seems to be the motto for copyright law. Industry extorting money from high profile cases in order to keep everyone in line. etc. "give us money or else we'll sue you for millions..."

If Apple phases out the 13" MBP, I'll either buy the late 2011 MBP 13" or not get a Mac at all. I am not worried about the Optical Drive away, it's the MBA-like form that worries me.

I need more storage than what SSDs can provide right now at the 13"'s price-point. Furthermore, I also want to have more than 4GB of Memory at reasonable pricing (something you can't get on the MBAs, as far as I know).

Finally, I'd really rather have the CPU or GPU of a MBP, rather than the ultra-low voltage versions of the MBA.

YOU obviously haven't a clue what you're talking about simply because cd is the only medium by which we can access high quality music. Are you telling me that you have access to all of the music companies master recordings? You must plug straight into the mixing desk for your music. Maybe you just book the artist to come round to your house and play in your lounge? Yes I need a cd drive to rip my musicand as far as I can tell it is still the most prolific medium for high quality music content. and i'll be damned if I'm going to buy more peripheral devices to do so.

How can you say this when you know nothing about what it will be like?

No one is saying that. What they're saying is that IF the next MBP can't do what their current one can, especially with regard the graphics card (not for gaming but for Aperture, Photoshop, etc.) there's nothing in the plus column that will make it worth upgrading to, as it won't be an upgrade except in ways that are secondary to them.

A twice as powerful CPU but with shared graphics or lesser graphics card because a better one than what I've already got won't fit? IF that's the first run except for the most expensive 17" model I'll pass. If I'm limited in amount of ram? Can't use it.

IIRC, current MBAs all max out at 4 gig of ram, which is soldered to the motherboard, one of several reasons MBAs haven't taken over from MBPs yet.

OMG, we have a live one!

You are taking the piss? right?

I have not read such a complete and utter load of twoddle in my life.

His comment makes no sense. He's switching up talking about codecs and the physical media as if they are the same thing.

I don't think anybody is saying that. What is being expressed is the fear of loosing what makes the MBP the MBP. If you can't grasp that don't comment.

Engineering is engineering, it is not something exclusive to Apple. Do you honestly believe that there are no engineers in this world outside of Apple?

Nope. On the other hand I've probably built more things at home than half the members of this forum. Now the thing is I've been using computers for years now, literally since the advent of the microprocessor, so I have a damn good idea about what is important to me.

To that end I've rejected all versions of the AIRs for personal use due to real limitations that I can not accept. Build those limitations into a MBP and the machine will not be acceptable.

Note that I'm not saying Apple will do that, just that it would be objectionable if they did.

It is better to post with some knowledge than no knowledge whatsoever. It is even worst to post demonstrating no comprehension with respect to this thread.

Remember with the optical drive gone you have 18"^3 of space for the battery where before you had none. You also get to rearrange the components with more freedom.

If you make it about 1" total like it currently is (note that only the MBAs currently get the milled top plate which adds thinness) you should be able to put a 35W/45W CPU and dGPU at the back of the 15" and 17" machine with plenty of room for a battery. Note that by going with the thicker back edge than the MBA you end up with a lot more internal space. I have only done rudimentary calculations of the space and components but it looks very doable to me.


If TB replaces any data port it's FW. Since Apple hasn't moved to FW1600 or FW3200 I have to wonder if the FW port will eventually be removed in favour of a second TB port or another USB port.

I don't think that will happen with the next revision but I can see it being silently swapped out in a future revision with the new case design. i do expect USB3.0 will arrive with Ivy Bridge.


I'm thinking that the cost per GB is still too much and that having the SSD blade and a space for a 2.5" drive might be needed. If it is, then that's a lot of storage at a lost cost without losing the fast boot and app loading. If it's not, well that's another 6.5"^3 of internal capacity for batteries or whatever.


I question this with the iPad 3 as well but there seem to be so much anecdotal evidence from so many sources that it usually turns out to be true.

I'd also like to see IPS finally come into the MBPs. People have been complaining about this for as long as IPS has been out but it's only recently that it's even become a viable option for a notebook.



I'm thinking at least one model size of the current MBP line might be rebranded the new MacBook.

OMG..did you really say that? With YOUR signature?

His sig is not stating what the iPhone will be like it's a deduction based on known information. For instance, it's not likely to have the A5 chip unless changes 2 years of a pattern, it's not likely to run iOS 5 unless Apple changes 5 years of a patten, it definitely won't be the 5th generation iPhone, nor will it be the 5th generation base case design unless they come out with two distinct designs this year.

THANK YOU APPLE! I have been begging our reps at work for an HP laptop like this, lose the optical drive on the enterprise PCs, make them thinner and lighter! now with this I can just tell our reps "copy that macbook pro, and do it NOW!!!!!"

I cant wait to see this thing in the flesh, and maybe finally replace my 5 year old MB that untill now has worked like a champ