Apple to disrupt notebook space with radically redesigned MacBook Pros - Page 6

My point was no one can say exactly what it will be named...not you...not me... not TS. But if he says that someone can't give an exact absolute about an Apple product...then neither can he or anyone else.......we are all just giving opinions.

I can say this because if I read the rumor right, the MBA will totally replace the 13" MBP. If I know how the MBA looks like, its specs limitations, and the power it does (or doesn't) provide, it doesn't take much effort to understand if it'd or would not be fit for me.

In my case, severe space storage limitations, memory unupgradeability and ultra-low voltage CPUs are a downgrade from the late-2011 MBP, meaning that'd probably be the one I'd get if the 13" ends up being phased out in 2012.

I use the dongle once in a blue moon. Usually at hotels, and rarely at customer sites that have security policies in place that forbid wireless. I haven't found it to be an annoyance.

The new version of the MacBook Pro must have Ethernet built in. Carrying around dongles sucks. I have the mini display port to VGA dongle & that's enough dongle-toting. Adapters are ridiculous. Thankfully more & more companies are using the mini display port connection so hopefully projector makers and TV makers will start putting it on the TVs eliminating the need for that dongle.

There's also that annoying problem of the ethernet dongle working on only one USB port of the MBA and not the other (on some machines).

I think your interpretation of the rumour is wrong. It sounds like you thought of all the negative things about the MBA and applied them to the new MBP instead of thinking about how Apple could use positive aspects from the MBA while still maintaining the Pro-ness of the MBP.

Note that Apple has already followed the MBA with the cutter design of the MBP. Before the MBA used a milled chassis it was a stiff bottom with soldered structural supports.



They do suck, but I hope you aren't suggesting the modem macs should have VGA ports. As for ethernet it all depends on how common and important Apple thinks it is to the bulk of their customers.

What is the concepts of the MBP that makes it the MBP? The shape....Its not tapered like the MBA is? Or is it the dedicated graphics? The MBA does not have dedicated graphics. The optical drive? the MBA does not have an optical drive. So what is as you say the Pro-ness of the MBP? Rumor has it they will remove the optical drive. So if the do that and give it a tapered design like the MBA with no optical drive and integrated graphics what is left to give it a MBP pro-ness?

I have no idea what you're getting at. You seem to conclude that by removing the ODD that they also must remove the DGPU. I don't see how those are related.

I see the future MBPs as having a CPU falling into the 35/45W TDP range (that means not a CULV), upgradable RAM (not soldered to the logic board), and a dGPU in at least the 15 and 17" models. I'm not even expecting any significant weight change as the removable of the ODD (and possibly the 2.5" drive) means that a signifcgant amount of the internal footprint can be used for the battery.

Can you explain to me why people think that a tapered chassis and the removable of the ODD means that it must adopt all the other aspects of the MBA?

You said in your other post "Apple could use concepts positive from the MBA while still maintaining the Pro-ness of the MBP." But if they remove the optical drive and dGPU then what will make it a MBP? It sounds like a 15 inch MBA to me...... So what is "Pro-ness of the MBP?"

Seriously, are you pulling my chain? Did you not read:

I see the future MBPs as having a CPU falling into the 35/45W TDP range (that means not a CULV), upgradable RAM (not soldered to the logic board), and a dGPU in at least the 15 and 17" models. I did forget to add that it will have more ports than the MBA.

Did the MBP lose it's Pro-ness or get better when it followed the original MBA case design? I think it got a lot better. It got thinner and sturdier yet it didn't lose andy performance in the process so why do you think following the tapered design and losing the antiquated optical drive means that it has to lose the discrete graphics or any other silly thing that makes the MBA an ultraportable notebook?

Little bit touchy aren't you? I saw your statement and asked about it...that was all. Not trying to pull anything of yours. All this is speculation.....can't wait to see what Apple will do with the notebook line when ivy bridge comes out.
Edit: The post I quoted and asked you about was post #207. It doesn't have ANY of the text you enlarged!

Just as a note regarding the potential redesigns, and as an avid Apple equipment owner, there are some concerns I have.

Firstly, removing the optical drive does have limitations and problems, and "Cloud" doesn't solve them. Our local ISP, the incumbent cable company is starting to put data transfer caps on connections on a monthly basis that seem quite low, especially if one's software and media are now distributed solely via said connection. Beyond that, I have had to install Final Cut Studio a few times (at a previous employer). Let's just say that the full install, with stock loops and such is NOT something I'd care to wait to download or have count against my monthly tally.

Secondly, the company I work for now manufactures networking equipment. The removal of a native Ethernet port means no new equipment for my almost-entirely Mac shop. Dongles and adapters, while adding measures of latency and even errors in some situations, are also a poor design. USB dongles are even worse; relying on the CPU and active backend to handle the most basic of tasks, rather than a smarter chip that interfaces on the normal accessory-device bus. We see this effect in USB hard drives (crap most often) versus the superior (if, sadly, only technologically) FireWire and ostensibly ThunderBolt (haven't tested TB yet myself). Having a TB adapter would be more palatable, but there are a NUMBER of issues that having an adapter changing from one data format to another, before going through another translation to get to the heart of the machine is problematic. One of the key benefits when I was able to chuck the crap Dell laptop that I had for a 17" MBP was that my Gigabit Ethernet actually could do a gigabit's worth of throughput. The Dell's crapped out around 430mbit.

To me, were I imagining an ideal device

1) Drop ODD ONLY if a proper TB or (God Forbid) USB drive could be used to view a movie. Many USB CD drives I've used on my home theater Mac Mini work great for data but won't show a DVD movie
2) GigE and FireWire should stay. Or, TB can replace FireWire if TB can be used in TDD mode and (ideally) a TB <-> FireWire adapter can be had. As the IT guy, Target Mode has saved many a system from HDD death.
3) Why SSD or Spinning drive only? Hybrid SSD + Spinning drive. 1TB + 128GB SSD in 9mm thick drive would give the best of both worlds. Perhaps a bit of smarts to let it know what to store and where... But, as a person who keeps over 500GB worth of virtual machines on my laptop (ready for a number of testing scenarios), going to a small SSD would be killer for me.
4) Dear God, please let us few who like it still have an option at least of a matte screen. I snagged a 17", 2.8GHz with a matte screen and thank my lucky stars every time I have to work on a glossy or even look to my secondary screen (A 27" Core i7 Quad iMac via mDP) that I don't have to do that every day.
5) WiFi, 802.11ac as an addition 802.11n backstopping with a 3x3 or 4x4 diversity antenna system would pair really well with a AirPort Pro or TimeCapsule Pro. Hint hint. More antennas also allows for the beamforming and steering portions of multi-diversity WiFi systems to deliver data more reliably.
6) Whole Screen AirPlay out. Neat feature and could easily help to eliminate problems with projectors and dongles and could sell the hell our of current AppleTV devices, and be a nice play for a home Apple television. Not a big fan of congesting the WiFi airwaves anymore than they are, but properly done, it could be.
7) Retina display. Lofty but who wouldn't want a 4k display. Not to mention, I'd get a second one and probably start looking for ways to drive it in a home made projector.
8) Get rid of third USB port on laptop. Hell, maybe even second too. I've used two at a time max on my 17" MBP. I'm sure there are some using all three at once, but really, rare is the set of USB keys and USB cords that can all fit at the same time. Unpowered USB hub would work, and since timing/latency critical anything should never go over USB, it wouldn't be terrible for USB as a whole.
9) Cellular/GPS/LTE optional. I probably wouldn't get it myself, but I know some ballyhoo over it. Personally, Hotspot sharing over the iPhone works great for me...

I concur

Pro in 2012 to me means having

Quad Core processing
Fast SSD drive (300MBps plus)
Gig E ports
Faster Thunderbolt
FW800
USB 3.0
Discrete Graphics with large frame buffers
HiRez screens.

I think (and hope) Ethernet makes it though I can't say I've used it in years. It's been brought up that the connector is quite large, but I think Apple could put it at the back end on the right side with a tapered design for a smart looking notebook that doesn't lose any of these features.

I wonder if FW is needed for too much longer. If we get USB3.0 and have TB then FW800 stars to look very dated.

A lot of companies use Ethernet for secure Intranet access / situations where there's a great deal of heavy file sharing going on.

FW should stick around for at least this next generation of MBPs due to the sheer number of FW800 devices on the market that need good legacy support for a few more years.

I didn't "apply" them to the new MBP, simply because I don't think there'll be any new MBP. My interpretation is that the MBP 13" will simply disappear, and the only 13" offered will be the MBA.

I'm all for Apple doing whatever they want design-wise with the MBP, including taking out the Optical Drive; what I don't want is to be stuck with an option of anemic CPU/GPU power, minimal storage space and no possibility to upgrade RAM, be that either a MBA or a new revamped MBP.

Also, making the MBP thinner has engineering compromises. The MBP is known for its heat issues as it is, let alone with a thinner case (specially after the i7 quad-core on the 13" rumors that appeared some months ago).

Not only the price is now more attractive, but the first MBAs had lame performance. They were going to sell anyway to a lot of high visibility sales executives. But the MBA has seen dramatic increases in performance with the last two (I'd say: STEALTH) iterations. And yet, they're selling like hotcakes.

All of the above but retain ODD. If ya want a MacBook air then buy a MacBook air. Let the pro remain just that.

1) So you think the MBP will go away or thy they will keep trucking on without any case redesign?

2) You failed to notice how making the MBP thinner doesn't mean it will have any less space for cooling the CPU and GPU, or how removing the ODD allows for a great deal more freedom for placing components that need more heat dissipation.

3) I'll ask again: What did the MBP lose the last time it followed the MBA into the future? I think it became the beat pro notebook Apple had ever created.

No, that would be ridiculous!

As far as the thinness goes, I don't know how they could make it all that much thinner. With the chatter over the tapered design of the Air, I'd sacrifice that for replacing the space occupied by the ODD with more battery. Longer battery life would be great.

1) What I read from the rumor was that the 13" MBP will go away, while the 15 and 17" will be redesigned.

2) This question only makes sense if we assume the MBP gets thinner but doesn't get phased out: If it gets thinner and the ODD is taken out, it'll have as much space as the MBA does for whatever is in there. Meaning it'll only have space for SSDs with low storage (since high-storage are expensive) and ULV CPU/GPU instead of LV.

3) The MBP never followed the MBA; it might've taken a hint from it here or there, but it always kept its separate identity. What I read from the rumor is that it'll be phased out, end of story. No more MBP at all.

I was going to respond to each one of your comments but you are completely off your rocker. Having to write several paragraphs to attempt to correct your irrational and illogical comments before even making my point would just take to long so go ahead and make all the stupid comments you want about the MBA didn't have a milled chassis before the MBP or how removing the optical drive means that the CPU will be CULV, the RAM will soldered, or other crazy things you've conceived of.

In truth, I never said anything about the ODD implying a different CPU or RAM soldering. But considering your unwillingness to have a civilized discussion, I won't bother either to "write several paragraphs". Perhaps if you reread what I wrote you can see what I meant; I believe I was very clear. Or, if you show openness for civilized discussion, perhaps I can try to explain myself in a more obvious way.

Have a good day.

Hoping the same genius who redesign FCP-X will not be in charge of "redesigning" the "new" MacBook Pro.

Getting rid of the optical drive is fine, provided a second hard drive can be put into the "new" MacBook Pros.

Ideally, Apple should allow for two additional drives to be installed in the MacBook Pro, which could be raided for speed and capacity, for a total of 3 hard drives. That would be a "pro" machine.

Listening, Apple Genius? Or are you just a Phone company?

It's also a laptop, you know. This seems to be what you want, but lo and behold

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the software engineers who wrote FCPX are not also hardware engineers working on the MBP.


I can see Apple keeping the 2.5" drive for now while adding the SSD blade but I can't see Apple adding 2xHDDs.

I don't get why removing the ODD means that it should be replaced by an extra HDD.


That would certainly be pro but perhaps so pro that it's no longer a consumer notebook but a speciality niche product. Consider that only of Apple's Macs have multiple HDDs: the Mac Pro. Even the iMac only has an option for a 3.5" HDD and 2.5" SSD.

You're setting yourself for disappointment if you envision anything more than an SSD blade and a 2.5" HDD/SSD and even then that still seems less than certain.


Apple's Macs lead the industry so much that they can't help but follow what Apple does.

The Mac Mini and the iMac have oh, I see.

I didn't include the Mac mini because the two drives are only for Mac OS X Server. If you are using a MBP for a server you are using it well outside a common usage scenario.

I'm trying to determine where the MBP followed the Air. The MBP actually adopted the unibody design first. At this point I'm going to wait it out and see what they release. Thinner wouldn't really surprise me, but I don't expect to see it in the same thickness as the Air. The Air is still stuck with ULV cpus without the ODD. Given how hot it can run when really pushed, I'd imagine it's a combination of thermal factors and battery life that led them to choose this cpu line.


The rage is unneeded. It's easy to respond with something well thought out rather than trolling here. Apple does sometimes forego many things in their designs in favor of aesthetics. When you buy from Apple, you often conform to their offerings to a greater degree than might be necessary with other companies, and that is annoying. Now regarding what they can/cannot design look at the macbook air. They went with the ulv cpus there and it lacks an ODD. If they went with a similar density at 15", do you think that allows enough room for discrete graphics and a quad cpu comparable to current offerings? Something will take a step backward for a generation or more in this scenario whether it's power, battery life, port allocation, display quality, etc. In the case of Apple they try to push such a product anyway with gimped settings like the original macbook air (with its throttled cpu settings) if the following generation of hardware would fix enough of these problems. Then it becomes almost a beta test as they can look for bugs before the intended hardware generation even arrives. It's unrealistic to think that Apple operates without any design limitations.


Display panels are a weird thing. IPS caught on with desktop displays first where critical needs had to be met in terms of display quality. Many companies stockpiled extra crts for years. The combination of late era crts having been constructed with inferior quality to cut costs and loads of R&D in ips displays pushed many of the holdouts to lcd displays around 2006 to 2007. I saw many many many Sony Artisans still in use before that, as companies had stockpiled such models. It was a combination of aging hardware, EOL software, and improvements to lcd displays to a point where banding was becoming less of an issue that did this. IPS has stagnated somewhat. Many of the current ones use wider gamuts which aren't as useful as they might seem on paper. We're seeing IPS used in phones and tablets where volume is huge and components like cpus are extremely cheap. I'm not certain that it's within budget for the macbook line given the cost effectiveness of the TN panels. Beyond that just sticking in a panel doesn't necessarily grant you supreme quality. Lcd displays often have quite a lot of engineering added to obtain the desired response curve, stability (in terms of drift) and uniformity. It costs money. We'll see if Apple chooses to make this an option anyway.

It was the MBA that had it first.

• MBA January 2008
• Aluminium MB & 15" MBP *October 2008
• 17" MBP February 2009

I certainly never said it would be as thin or thinner than the MBA. In fact I stated the bottom chassis could even be about the same thickness as the current MBPs yet with the...

1. reduction of the top chassis thickness from being milled (something the MBA still only has)
2. the removal of the ODD which will allow better placement of the components and cooling (because they can be put in a row along the back vent instead of forced into an odd squarish design)

...they will be able to do a lot more with the same space. That ODD takes up an estimated 18"^3. That's not quite the battery size but it's not too far off. You should be able to taper the design so that you can have as much or more battery while having a thinner overall notebook.

For some reason that seems to suggest that they will have to use CULV processors, remove the dGPU, and forego what makes the MBP a Pro machine, yet I recall no one saying these unibody MBPs were less powerful or more MBA-like by adopting the unibody chassis and thinning out the notebook from 1" to 0.95".

Hehe.. I wasn't arguing with you on that, but I thought they introduced the milled enclosure with the second generation Air. I'm still not sure what will/won't be included here. Bleh beyond that Apple has disappointed me immensely on the driver / OSX end lately.

Apple claims to have to learned from designing the original MacBook Air that inspired them to make the MacBook Pro out of the same aluminum unibody enclosure method.

They didn't even sell to high visibility sales executives. They were a flop, pure and simple. Apple misjudged what they could release and charge for. The improved performance in the revised models brought them into usefulness, and sales responded, and now that they spec out as they do they sell well.

One of Apple's greatest attributes (and I say this as an Apple fan not basher) is their ability to make people have amnesia about when they screwed up so they can proceed past the bump.

I said this when I got my MBA a year ago, and I repeat it now. Please forget the MBP form factor. It has no future, because nobody wants to buy a new laptop with that form factor. If you want that, buy a PC.

The future is the challenge of putting the performance of the MBP in the MBA form factor. If you don't understand that, the future isn't for you, sorry.

Once you've used an MBA, you no longer want the MBP form factor, and all you say is "I want my MBP performance on the MBA form factor".

That's what the customers want, and that's also what Apple wishes to achieve. A quite promising future.

I wish to add that I believe the current MBP line are great machines, and all MBP owners have a superb machine that will last for years. So, don't take me wrong, I love current MBPs. I'm only saying that future MBPs will move to a lighter and lighter form factor. Technology has always evolved in that direction. The performance of an iPad required the size of a deskside supercomputer just a few decades ago, and now we've that same performance on one hand. The same goes for future MBPs, no matter how great is the current MBP line.

Glad i picked up my MBP when i did. They should be loading these babies up with more instead of stripping them down. After all the do have the "Pro" monicker on them, whatever.

So a second optical drive is the way to go in a notebook?

If it didn't involve giving something up, other oems would have transitioned to a thinned out enclosure long ago. The same goes for Apple. It's not lossless. It's just that if enough people like them, it will influence intel's R&D. Apple and everyone on here should get over the ultrabook thing, as it may provide Apple with superior cpus for their machines. I'm sure I'll get more ARM trolling from people who have never bothered to read a single white paper.

It's not so much the challenge of getting the next generation of the same thing into the machine. If they want identical dimensions, you're limited to what will run within it. Personally I've used both, and I'd choose the one that performs better every time. Some of you drastically overstate the advantages here. You're likely to see either a 15" Air or a hybrid design assuming the validity of these rumors.

Get ready for the Thunderbolt Nvidia external dual SLI graphics card... Oh, wait. Apple only caters to the promarket, people who never need real graphics and only run Microsoft Excel on their Windows Macs. They don't do games, Photoshop or Maya... Everything is fine then.

I'm waiting for holographic displays. Avatar anyone?...