Apple to disrupt notebook space with radically redesigned MacBook Pros - Page 3

What is it about people not grasping that a laptop is a portable device and that carrying around external dongles for port that are easy to include internally is a waste! That doesn't even get into the fact that USB dongles don't work very well.

The same thing applies to external storage, it isn't the right solution.

He's also ignoring that Intel won't add support for USB3.0 until Ivy Bridge, which will be on the next round of Macs.

I use my MBP in clamshell mode with external monitor almost all of the time for heavy photo work. About the only time I take it from the house is for vacations. I use my iPad for going out into the world each day. I am not happy about losing my 750GB HDD and SD card slot to skinny up when I already have my iPad.

Actually, between the 3GB Time Capsule and the 27 inch Thunderbolt Cinema Display I lack neither of these things, and my work area looks like a Goddamn Zen garden.

As an added bonus, my wallet also now looks like a MBA.

A portable computer also fails if it tried to be everything for everyone to the point it's no longer a desirable portable device.

Remember how the MBA was laughed at when it first arrived. Remember the pundits and myopic stating that it will never sell and how it was proof that Apple has lost its way? Not only did it sell but it also heralded in a new era of consumer notebook computer that dominated CES this year with OEMs playing catch up.

I can make an argument for both sides of this issue. How common is Ethernet usage at this point across Mac notebooks? If they can go with a thinner bottom chassis at the back edge that doesn't allow for the port interface I think that is the most important question to ask. I'm thinking it's not very important I certainly don't use it despite my personal preference to retain the Ethernet port.

Completely agree. From this lay / outsider's perspective, the distinction in names is more confusing than informative. Most consumers just think in a dichotomy: desktop, or laptop. The average person isn't going into Best Buy weighing the various specifications of ultrabooks, netbooks, MB Airs, MB Pros, etc.

A MacBook Pro needs to be more than just a MacBook Air with a larger screen.

It's also wasteful to have extra cost and weight built in for something you hardly ever use.

As for external storage, that can actually be a bonus, if your laptop gets lost, stolen or damaged, all your work isn't lost with it.

Furthermore, even if you have cavernous internal storage, surely you should be backing up your professional work that's essential to your livelihood?

Unless they are using PCI-Express they are the same thing. Ideally they would make use of PCI-Express to have a future growth path.


Not even close buddy. Secondary storage fills up real fast these days and that is before any significant media or documents are loaded. I went past 70 GB a couple of days after getting my MBP. Install developer tools, Eclipse, a few office apps and some misc. stuff and those fat HD don't look so fat afterwards.

Not to mention is the space taken up by backing up our iOS devices.

And you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

Well this I agree with.

June is a long time, I really think it will be earlier than that. As for retina displays I suspect all of the Pros will go that route. Retina on Pros would better set them apart from the AIRs which don't have decent GPUs to drive them.

I am not sure I would trust a person who names themselves after an allegedly friendly ghost.

It's not Gigabit, that's the problem. The Cinema Display is there for someone who wants an external monitor (and can justify the cost) and at least the port on that is Gigabit. I guess you could do IP over Thunderbolt, but I honestly don't know if that's an option at this point.

Or a "pro" graphics card?

What is needed is a truly portable MacBook Air, 400 to 600 g for the pocket or purse. The Mac with you. Always.

So you're alright with a USB Ethernet dongle that is 1000BASE-T, which will be possible once USB3.0 is added?

Why don't you wait and see exactly what's announced and then ask these questions? Apple may just have all of that covered. After all, the MacBook Pro line will more than likely keep the "Pro" designation for a reason.

Computers marketed as Pro devices need to be desirable for that market segment. In that regards Ethernet support is still needed for a couple of years. I could see Thunderbolt replacing it in the future but the infrastructure isn't there yet.

In any event Ethernet is often had for free in a chipset with little additional expense implementing the physical port.

Are you having a memory failure here? The original AIR sucked royally, didn't sell worth a damn and actually is a demonstration of what happens when form is emphasized over function. AIR didn't do anything for Apple until the arrival of the current generation machines.

Initially AIR was a complete failure with very weak acceptance in the market. I'm not sure why you are trying to rewrite history here. OEMs are catching up to the current generation AIR.

Excessive thinnest is not just a Ethernet issue, it also impacts secondary storage and other fat objects like GPU and CPU fans. There is a real fear in the community that Apple is going after thin in the MBP at the expense of performance. This would be very sad if true because people have always looked to the MBPs as higher performance machines. The AIRs and formerly the Mac Books filled the lower performance niches.

I can see Apple reconfiguring the machine and making it somewhat thinner without creating the limitations many fear are coming. But all of this talk about AIR like machines is disheartening. The option of an AIR already exists, MBP need to remain as machines that are available when AIRs aren't the right solution.

I think they should make the Airs more air and the Pros more pro.

My 12" air is fantastic, so the airs are in good shape, but the pros seem a bit lost and the idea of making them more like airs seems a bit committee-like.

I wonder what would make a pro more pro in an Apple way. Graphics for sure, to seriously challenge the gaming industry and support media pros ( who probably crave battery life too). High quality sound, maybe Jonny Ive can work with bose to figure out how to laser waveguides into the chassis.

No, making the pros more airy would make them half-baked as airs and as pros. Professionals need the power, so it's going to be weighty, so go the other way. One thing should be for sure - it would be expensive.

This is complete garbage. People spend inordinate amount of time choosing computers, it isn't like grabbing a box of cereal. Often the selection process begins well before the trip to the store.

Sure. Although, given recent events, it seems like they would want to do this with Thunderbolt and GigE on the same cable. My big gripe with USB has always been the lack of things like Target Disk Mode and full speed pass-through if you daisy-chain multiple devices. I avoid USB external drives like the plague (Save for my Mom's machine - Early 2009 Unibody MacBook - No FireWire)

Thunderbolt (at least in terms of capability) is closer to FireWire, but hopefully the Intel support will help this finally take hold.

I know I'll be in the minority but I hope it's got built in ethernet.

While a USB to Ethernet dongle is good enough for many. In an overly secure enterprise environment, a USB Dongle or even a Thunderbolt Display ethernet option is a a security risk.

If you use MAC Address filtering as part of your security setup, as we do, having a dongle or display as the solution is considered a security risk. We suffer enough with folks who want to use MBAs, and have wireless as their only option, as it is.

Try creating a local account via AD, by just signing in, without being physically plugged into the network. Can't be done.

And I've yet to find any sort of 'encrypted' or secured USB to Ethernet adapter/dongle.

Cheers,

seb

Use the Cloud with WIFI.

I think you and others have a very incorrect view of what the redesigned MBPs will be. Making them more like the MBAs is really just losing the ODD (seriously not needed), which allows them to be thinner overall tapered.

It does not mean they will use CULV CPUs.
It does not mean they will lose nearly all ports.
It does not mean the battery life will be cut in half.
It does not mean the RAM will be soldered.
It does not mean there will be no place for a 2.5" HDD/SSD.
It does not mean there will be no discrete GPU.



For it to use Thunderbolt I think the other end will need to have a Thunderbolt controller so an Ethernet dongle simply can't happen like it can with USB.

As for TDM, that is such an old solution that requires two Macs. If you have Mac OS installed on a partition you simply hold down the Option key and boot into it. That means your TM drive, a USB flash drive, an SD card, an external HDD/SSD, etc. That said, it's even less of an issue today with the two methods for restoring Mac OS X to a system that came about with Lion and new firmware updates.

Terrible solution for multiple reasons:

- WiFi availability constrains
- Editing gigabytes worth of multimedia
- Cloud storage is limited and otherwise an additional ongoing cost

you get the idea

Yes, it seems there's a lot of geeks walking around wearing internet pants. Lots of pockets for all the cables, adapters and dongles that every geek needs. It's also one of the reasons that Apple sometimes winds me up, with their never-going-to-catch-on-as-a-standard video ports that don't connect to anything in a normal person's house or office.

Well, if the river was whiskey, said, I was a duck
You know I'd swim to the bottom, Lord
And never come up

Tell me how long,
Do I have to wait?

It's not that I think any of those things are going to happen. I think it's more a case that the middle-level of users are moving more toward the airs than the pros for average use, so for the pros to be a valuable distinction they should move upwards (away from the middle) to serve media pros and high-end gamers.

If the optical drive came out, I'd guess pro users would rather use the space for increased multi-media power, battery-life and ruggedness than a slimmer pro laptop.

I forgot about the active cabling bit with Thunderbolt so that could be holding it up. That said, it's still a concept (Ethernet+TB cable) that would be interesting to see.

The main reason I brought up TDM is because the 2 times I needed to use it, it has either:

1. Allowed me to install software on old machines without a SuperDrive (Drive sharing rocks )
2. Saved me from losing all my data when an OS update makes it impossible to boot the machine (10.5.2 update, I'm looking in your direction )

My current machine is a late 2007 C2D 15", so I don't really know what the Internet Recovery experience is like, but it is something I'm looking forward to - planning to upgrade when these machines become reality.

I'm definitely looking forward to smaller, lighter machines with SSD boot drives.

OTOH over 325GB of my internal HD is used and our corporate WiFi is saturated with phones, tablets and MacBook Airs so everyone who can use Ethernet is required to do so. I find even small file transfers are much faster on Ethernet so I plug in whenever possible.

Although I don't need a better CPU or GPU than I already have plenty of Pro users do. The Air probably couldn't cool high performance chips and maintain any sort of usable battery life.

I expect Apple will produce a MacBook Pro that accommodates its high end users in an amazing new form factor.

I think they will have lots of fans -- the current line sure does. The numbers just keep bigger all the time.

Not those kind of fans, these are the ones for cooling!

Sonnet appear to have one now "Sonnets Presto Gigabit Ethernet Thunderbolt Adapter converts a Thunderbolt connector to a Gigabit Ethernet port.".

I'm in the market for a new laptop to replace my ageing MBP. I'd be happy for it to be lighter, thinner and SSD as long as it had reasonable capacity. I think inevitably I'll end up with a Pegasus style storage device at home for photo libraries and video but it would be nice to have at least 512GB on the machine.

At the office I would definitely prefer ethernet but would simply get the adaptor above if there was no direct port. All my work stuff is on the office servers so there's no storage issues there. As far as optical drives are concerned, I really don't care - barely use the Superdrive in the MBP but I'm sure work would buy an external 'just in case'.

Probably my biggest stumbling block to REALLY wanting one of these machines is Lion. Can't stand it and have just spent a couple of days removing it from my current machine. I know we'll have to use it one day, but I'd be happy to stick with Snow Leopard for a couple of years.

Gee, well-reasoned, informative, specific, convincing...thanks!

...if only we'd stopped with the wheel...

How long does an SSD last versus an HDD? Do I recall correctly that it has a limited number of read/write passes before it begins to degrade?

Yes, I can see that this might be irrelevant in a world where a buyer might want to replace the device quickly (more quickly than the SSD degrades) in order to have the "latest and greatest". But that *seems* to be a sort of "built-in obsolescence".

Don't get me wrong: I'm an Apple favorer. We have two 13" MBPs (SSDs) and two iPAD2s, along with an iPhone4S. Good enough?

But I recall that (when I had it) my old IBM A31 Thinkpad, with its hard drive, remained a workhorse after many years of use. And I recall with fear that the April 2008 green issue of PC Magazine said, "A pile of our obsolete computers could make a 22-story mountain that covers the entire 472 square miles of the city of Los Angeles." (I'm sure it's increased since 2008.)

Is this built-in obsolescence a practice we should continue to pursue?

If accurate, this is very bad news as far as I'm concerned.

If they make the MBP exactly like a MBA, then there's no Pro line. And that, IMO, would be a big mistake.

What about people who need a lot of storage? I just took out my 250 GB HDD and replaced it with a 750 GB drive (which also happens to have a small Flash drive as part of it) for only $200 (and it was that expensive only because of the current drive shortage). What do I do when Apple's next machine only uses a Flash drive and it only has 128GB? And of course it will be one that you can't replace yourself. Apple currently charges $1100 to $1200 extra for 512GB.


Think there's a reason for that? Maybe people prefer the price/performance ratio of the current MacBook Pros. And I know that as far as this Board is concerned, I'm in the minority on this, but I still make plenty of use of my optical drive. I'm all in favor of lighter and more beautiful computers, but I really despise giving up functionality and serviceability in the name of Zen.

If Apple is going to drive its product line only to people who mostly consume content as opposed to those doing their own creation (and by creation, I don't mean playing around with a silly photo app or posting to Facebook - I mean people who have to do real work), then they might as well kill the entire computer line and only produce iPads.

Each time I update, I should be getting more from Apple. Not less.

I personally enjoyed the picture of the 2012 MacBooks since it was the same picture resized four different times.

Its kinda humourous.

I'm with you, kid.

Whatever the design and feature set, though, I can't wait any longer. Apple's best 2012 15" notebook is slated to be my next machine. But that doesn't mean I don't have my druthers.....

I'm with you too!


+3 for the CF ref!


I'm not with you. And neither, as far as I can see, is Apple.


Check. And Check. I'm surprised long-range wireless data isn't already available at least as an option. But ditching the ODD does leave room for lots of re-engineering.



I'm with both of you as well - but, sadly, hybrid-drive-ization doesn't feel like an "Apple-like" solution. And we do seem to be moving toward an age where the "Cloud," i- and otherwise, is going to be our big storage vault in the sky, so local storage will matter less and less over time.


I won't be. Apple seems to have decreed that TB is "the way." On the other hand, since they'll likely keep a USB port, it might as well be a 3.0, so mebbe....


Please!


By Jove, you may have it about right. Makes sense to me at least. But then, like more and more of us these days, I live in my own "filter bubble."

Apple prefers to have as few SKUs as possible, with as few variations as necessary. That decreases cost and increases profit and customer satisfaction, because it's easier for geniuses to repair them. If a customer breaks a hard disk by dropping an iPod or a MacBook Pro on the ground, it affects Apple's image and the customer's satisfaction, because people think, "It's my fault it broke, but Apple made it too fragile."

Now look at flash memory. Apple moved the iPods to flash memory. iPhones and iPod Touches have flash memory. Now flash memory is making its way into laptops, beginning with the ones where it has the least price impact. The 15-inch MacBook Pros require more storage, so the 15-inch MacBook Pros couldn't change until the cost of the SSDs went down. Now the time is about right.

Apple is in a transition, and sooner or later, all Macs will have SSDs instead of hard drives.

My prediction: a replacement for the 15-inch MacBook Pro in MacBook Air format, with SSD, lots of RAM, Thunderbolt, but without USB 3 or optical drives, and a price that is equivalent to the current 15-inch MacBook Pro.

Forget about reasonable levels. How about T-bolt peripherals across the board being available? And not just one or two examples. Thunderbolt is the greatest thing going that barely anyone is utilizing, except to adapt it down to usable non-T-bolt peripherals.

Originally Posted by popnfresh
"The new MacBook Pros may be sleek and light and fine for home users, but they'll be a disaster for professionals and the enterprise".


Not quite. We have two MBPs, and recent MBA (along with an iPad2 and an old PPC G5 desktop, still being useful), and while the MBA has found it's way into our workflow (audio and image production) there's zero way we can use it to run the business on. We like it but absolutely no doubt that if someone told us that we had to get rid of one of those four computers and keep working it would be the MBA that hits the road. No question. Even before the G5.

It's quiet, sleek, and peppy. But we couldn't have ours front and center on the workflow front. People in production own them but I always see them taking secondary roles to MBPs, and not because the users are narrow minded.

Use iCloud.

Apple often eliminates legacy hardware and invents better ways of doing things. People went crazy when Apple eliminated the hardware keyboard, for example. Now they will scale back local storage and promote iCloud as the better alternative.

It suits the needs of the vast majority way better than a clunky spinning legacy behemoth.

That's just for static storage, not active files. There is no cloud storage suitable to deal with large, working files in progress except as backups. Files currently being worked on, such as folders of hundred meg TIFFs or audio work as it is being worked on. That's the answer for offices, but not production environments.