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Apple asks for US preliminary injunction of Samsung's Android 4.0 Galaxy Nexus - Page 11

post #401 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by habi View Post

On a side note The iPhone really changed the material of the screen used and created a totally new market for Corning which had not found any use for its product fron the 60s. If it werent for the iPhone we would still use scratching plastic screens today...

It i curious though, that Apple have moved away from Corning as a supplier of glass and now list three other aluminosilicate manufacturers.
I have heard various stories as to why
1. Corning could not supply the volume Apple need (an/or not supply it while meeting other manufacturers demands)
2. Corning could not make it in the thickness Apple wanted (and are now with Gorilla glass 2)
3. The process used to create Gorilla glass uses harmful chemicals
post #402 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Apple is currently being sued by many, many companies for theft of IP.

Tekstud - is that you?
Where are we on the curve? We'll know once it goes asymptotic!
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post #403 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by rBels View Post

But I find it hard to see someone 'blatantly' snatching 45-65% more money for the products in the name of aesthetic patents. If Apple considers reducing this margin even a bit lesser, they dont have to chase Android OEMs, but would see the Apple customer base further increase exponentially. Patents are good, but only as long as they dont hurt the customers of the reach to good technology on time and at reasonable price.

In this case the patents involved are much more "meaty", at least to me. They are not so much design-oriented as before, but seem more function-oriented. Data Detectors, Autocorrect, Unified Search, etc. seem like rather significant newly-granted patents. I don't think enforcing these patent rights will hurt customers, because Apple is in an intractable situation ~ as negotiation experts will say. All parties have moved to unsolvable positions and the courts will have to come down on one side or another. Brinkmanship, as it were. Since Apple has no choice but to litigate on a continual basis and everyone else has to either continue (in an infringing or non-infringing way, depending on what the legal result is) or wait for re-worked versions of Android.

BTW it does seem strange that after all this time only 1% of Android phones(?) are version 4. Meaning 99% are version 2.3 at best(? - before customer modifications, that is). Intriguing but somewhat troubling to me.
post #404 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

What if Samsung stops making the A4, A5 and A6? Wont this pretty much halt all Apple sales? this is getting out of hands.

Er... And who do you think makes a ton of Nvidia and AMD/ATI chips? Hint: Not Samsung
post #405 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scroat View Post

Yes I heard rumors it was TSMC missing specs. But we don't know for sure. It could have just been Samsung under bid TSMC. Sure short term Apple would be hurt but like I said, Apple takes a chunk of their 100 billion and invests it into factories for TSMC or whoever and it's business as usual. What people fail to understand is Apple has locked down contracts with All of their suppliers. Samsung would probably have to pay a massive penalty for missing any "quota" due to "manufacturing difficulties" or whatever they call the reason for not supplying Apple their parts. If Samsung were to refuse any future contracts with Apple once again Apple would be hurt short term but guaranteed they would find another manufacturer and it would quickly be business as usual again. ANY company can make the chips for Apple. Apple owns the design. My opinion is Apple goes with Samsung because like you said, Samsung is the most reliable manufacturer in the business. Samsung is the most cost efficient manufacturer in the business. But make no mistake. They are NOT the ONLY manufacturer in the business. Push comes to shove, Apple spends the money and builds factories capable of duplicating Samsungs reliability. I agree with you tho, Samsung isn't going to do anything drastic.

Yeah, TSMC has had a pretty bad track record over the past five years. Samsung seems to be doing a better job for ARM production. That said, it is true that if Apple needed to they would simply set up their own fab. It sounds insane to many but it's definitely in the PlanB box at AppleHQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Apparently you two haven't heard of Google's proxy (MotoMo) suing Apple in Germany for 2.25% of the retail price of an iPhone or iPad. Read up on it, it's all over the news.

Has Google commented openly on this? What are they saying, I wonder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

You tap the power button to light up the screen, there's an image that you place your finger on and slide over a padlock to unlock the phone.

That's one of the patents under contention.

Then there's the other three involved in this suit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

OMG. .

Just noticed Florian Mueller has a name for this set of four patents. . .
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse



Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroNix View Post

Apple took current technology, modded it, put a nice face on it, added an ecosystem around it and marketed it.

Hmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galeforce View Post

Sure, they can be wrong

Indeed. That's why I have an Xbox360, a Logitech mouse etc.
post #406 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

patent suits are one thing...those go up on all sites pretty much.

but there are many articles that have literally nothing to do with Apple.

Ugh, another ban? Hard to keep your cool head in places like this right?

For your question. AI has to eat too. And the ad revenues haven't been flowing lately, more like trickles. All those Android handsets, software and phone carriers are now gone. And with them ad money. CNBC stop quoting AI doesn't help drive page views either.

When sites resort to accepting ads from U.S. Green Card lottery, university sumer programs and online games, I know they are in financial hole. Anyone know if Apple Insider has been in the red?

Probably the only thing that keeps the light on is Android articles, bashing or otherwise, and all those stuff that doesn't involved Apple. I don't remember there was an article involved Apple products with more than 200 comments lately. AI articles about Android is guarantee to have at least 190.

Now, I wonder where readers of Apple news go?
post #407 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I don't think that's the correct question. Being a fan of one doesn't mean you can't be a fan of the other. I think a better question is: Why frequent a site about a company/product for which you are not a fan?

The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. I've never been to an Android or Windows forum or site in my life. The Apple haters here remind me of Red Sox fans trolling on Yankees forums or vice versa. It's pretty laughable. They just don't have a life.
post #408 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Er... And who do you think makes a ton of Nvidia and AMD/ATI chips? Hint: Not Samsung

And is Samsung still the only manufacturer with capacity Apple require? They said no one else in this business can deliver these chips in number and timing Apple need.

On a side note, what kind of conflict or frictions that will make Samsung Semiconductor close rank with its Electronics cousin and say 'That's it!' then actually stop the delivery to Apple?
post #409 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkhan2000 View Post

The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. I've never been to an Android or Windows forum or site in my life. The Apple haters here remind me of Red Sox fans trolling on Yankees forums or vice versa. It's pretty laughable. They just don't have a life.

Well, plenty of them I'm sure are among those unemployed Americans who stop looking, and use this site to while away their hours until the job market picks up. While half of regulars on The Economist magazine forums are Canadian and British students who hangs on for extra years rather than graduate and go jobless.
post #410 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

Tekstud - is that you?

I missed him already, I really am.

Didn't he get another job far away from Manhattan that he doesn't have time to post anymore?

Though I believe it was that tekstud was more of a Mac and iPod guy rather than iOS guy. So when those two lines fade from Apple's spotlight, he lost interest as well.
post #411 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post

Well, plenty of them I'm sure are among those unemployed Americans who stop looking, and use this site to while away their hours until the job market picks up. While half of regulars on The Economist magazine forums are Canadian and British students who hangs on for extra years rather than graduate and go jobless.

That's pretty funny and I agree!
post #412 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple v. Samsung View Post

First of all google did not copy iOS it is really sad some people are to ignorant to understand that.



Android is a stolen product. Apple is going to destroy Android.
post #413 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post

Ugh, another ban? Hard to keep your cool head in places like this right?

For your question. AI has to eat too. And the ad revenues haven't been flowing lately, more like trickles. All those Android handsets, software and phone carriers are now gone. And with them ad money. CNBC stop quoting AI doesn't help drive page views either.

When sites resort to accepting ads from U.S. Green Card lottery, university sumer programs and online games, I know they are in financial hole. Anyone know if Apple Insider has been in the red?

Probably the only thing that keeps the light on is Android articles, bashing or otherwise, and all those stuff that doesn't involved Apple. I don't remember there was an article involved Apple products with more than 200 comments lately. AI articles about Android is guarantee to have at least 190.

Now, I wonder where readers of Apple news go?

Apple fanboyz cause quite the stink on BB and Android fora. But there's much tit for tat.
post #414 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

What if Samsung stops making the A4, A5 and A6? Wont this pretty much halt all Apple sales? this is getting out of hands.

That's ok. Nothing to worry about. Audi still makes A4, A5 and A6, and has been producing the A8 already.
post #415 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Android is a stolen product. Apple is going to destroy Android.

post #416 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkhan2000 View Post

The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference.

I've never understood why people say that. Is it a saying because it's axiomatically incorrect. The opposite of feeling/emotion is indifference. Love and hate are opposite emotions.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #417 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

He's absolutely right. It stifles competition when Apple's natural success is so overwhelming that Google and Samsung feel they have no choice but to steal from Apple instead of investing in actual innovation.

And Apple has repeatedly "stolen" features from Android. If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery then both Google and Apple are gushing for each other.

Again, once folks get over the idea that Apple is a misfortuned pauper who's been robbed blindly, they can move on to a reality where Apple is more accurately an ultra-rich teeth gnashing bully.
post #418 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Apple is currently being sued by many, many companies for theft of IP.

Chinese Authorities Seize iPads Over Trademark Dispute

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2400165,00.asp
post #419 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

If the only people convinced are Apple, their followers, the courts and the opposing lawyers then I would hazard a guess that things will go quite well for Apple.

I purposely left out the other 99% of the population who don't vehemently claim Apple IP theft, otherwise don't care and would prefer to spend their money on development efforts rather than legal bickering.
post #420 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

And Apple has repeatedly "stolen" features from Android. If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery then both Google and Apple are gushing for each other.

Again, once folks get over the idea that Apple is a misfortuned pauper who's been robbed blindly, they can move on to a reality where Apple is more accurately an ultra-rich teeth gnashing bully.

1) You missed the irony in my post.

2) What has Apple stolen Google. Note: including something Apple incorporated after Google isn't the same as stealing from Google. You'll have prove that Google owned the rights.


Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Chinese Authorities Seize iPads Over Trademark Dispute

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2400165,00.asp

So the fact that Apple licensed the use of iPad from the parent company means nothing to you?

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post #421 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Apple fanboyz cause quite the stink on BB and Android fora. But there's much tit for tat.

And how Android boards hold up after the dust settled? AI holds up of course, but popularity falls from Premier League in 2009-2010 to Championship today. Where are those Apple fans who come to talk Apple stuff back in 2010? Most of them are gone now no?

Was that the same time DED get on AI's payroll? RoughlyDrafted is a dead man walking these days.

And is there such a thing of Android equivalent of Apple Insider, the go-to place for developers and handset owners alike?
post #422 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) So the fact that Apple licensed the use of iPad from the parent company means nothing to you?

It's not him seizing iPads. Apparently the Chinese authorities may believe Apple is using the iPad name illegally. A bit surprising to me but then I don't have the complete story, just the somewhat scant reports on the web. There could be some important facts that we don't know about.
melior diabolus quem scies
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post #423 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

I purposely left out the other 99% of the population who don't vehemently claim Apple IP theft, otherwise don't care and would prefer to spend their money on development efforts rather than legal bickering.

I know what you meant - I was just amused by how it read.
post #424 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

It's not him seizing iPads. Apparently the Chinese authorities may believe Apple is using the iPad name illegally. A bit surprising to me but then I don't have the complete story, just the somewhat scant reports on the web. There could be some important facts that we don't know about.

"Chinese Authorities" seems to be a rather loose term. Regionally, they often appear to do whatever they want, and then worry about all that annoying legal stuff later.
post #425 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


So the fact that Apple licensed the use of iPad from the parent company means nothing to you?

I'm no sure why you get so personal. I was letting people know what was happening with Apple in the realm of stolen IP.

Whether something "means nothing to [ME]" is well beside any relevant point.

ISTM that the post had no intent other than to insult a fellow user.
post #426 of 446
Random Police officers took 45 ipads off store shelves in China.

Yes. 45 ipads.

Thats the story.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/13/a...izure-lawsuit/

The scope of this operation remains unclear, though China.com reports that as of 5:00 PM yesterday, authorities had seized some 45 iPad 2s. Retailers who voluntarily removed their iPads apparently did so to protect their stocks from confiscation, and are reportedly continuing to sell the tablet behind the counter.
post #427 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Actually I would argue that your definition is way too loose, to the point of being incorrect. I think I understand what you mean by "implementation in pseudo code", and if so then I agree that that is what I am referring to, although it exists as a set of mathematical steps (operations) before you ever start writing code (except in the most trivial cases perhaps).

I'm curious where your definition of algorithm comes from. In the case of the example that I gave previously, what part of that process would you regard as the algorithm?

Having just done a brief literature search and sampled a few results, I can't find anyone using it as you describe. I also checked the ubiquitous Wikipedia and found that the article there uses pretty much exactly the same definition that I gave.

The point is that "The word algorithm does not have a generally accepted definition".
And even if you define it as a precise set of instructions that lead to a defined (correct) result, it can be incredibly difficult to implement because of all kinds of physical constraints like finite memory size finite time and an existing code base it has to fit in.
It's even thinkable that a precise set of instructions logically solves a problem, but isn't clear on how to achieve the individual steps or even if it's possible to achieve them.

So what I object to is that in general an algorithm can be seen as an actual implementation.
If an algorithm is fleshed out in pseudo code or a formal notation it can be seen as a program template, and as such it could be subject to copyright law.
But at the other end of the spectrum an algorithm is more like an idea "how to solve a certain problem" that leaves all the hard work to the actual implementation.

J.
post #428 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

The point is that "The word algorithm does not have a generally accepted definition".
And even if you define it as a precise set of instructions that lead to a defined (correct) result, it can be incredibly difficult to implement because of all kinds of physical constraints like finite memory size finite time and an existing code base it has to fit in.
It's even thinkable that a precise set of instructions logically solves a problem, but isn't clear on how to achieve the individual steps or even if it's possible to achieve them.

As far as I can see it clearly does have a generally accepted definition, but no matter. Difficulty of coding is not pertinent to the question of what comprises the algorithm in my view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

So what I object to is that in general an algorithm can be seen as an actual implementation.
If an algorithm is fleshed out in pseudo code or a formal notation it can be seen as a program template, and as such it could be subject to copyright law.
But at the other end of the spectrum an algorithm is more like an idea "how to solve a certain problem" that leaves all the hard work to the actual implementation.

J.

OK - I see where you were really going with this and I agree with you. I also believe that an algorithm should not be patentable (even by my definition where it is a fully defined mathematical method), but that actual code should get copyright protection.

I'd add that I don't think most code falls under the definition of "algorithm", and there are many other elements of programming to achieve a particular result that may well deserve patent, as well as copyright protection, preventing them from just being rewritten to circumvent the copyright.
post #429 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I've looked over the patent. Based on my non-expert opinion a couple things stand out. First of all, going by the Abstract alone...
... and then looking by the images the patents show the notifications at the top as a bar it would appear that Google has a case. But then I consider the date of the filing, some obvious things like perimeter, graphical, etc. that are obvious, and WebOS use of a notification system that Android looks to have copied (except that it's on top instead of on the bottom.

Google or Apple may have licensed from Palm/HP as far as we know. Something strikes me as off about Google's patent in regards to being able to sue Apple but I can't quite express it in words. If it comes to me I'll try to state it clearly.

I think it's ridiculous someone can even patent this, this sort of functionality has been available in many forms for quite some time. Functionality much like this is available via Growl on the Mac desktop.

Sounds like just the kind of patent they don't want to publicize to much for fear of it getting overturned. They may just be keeping it around as protection against anyone else who might try to receive a similar patent.
post #430 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

Then they need to quit pidding around the outskirts and take the lawsuit directly to Google.

Apple isn't that stupid to go against Google especially since their acquisition of Motorola.

You know, the guys that hold the patents that Apple failed to license for cell phones to operate on a GSM network. While FRAND applies here, Motorola also holds the patent for push mail.

If Apple tries to go after Google, have fun manually retrieving your email because that patent is not part of FRAND and doesn't have to be licensed.

All in all, the entire patent system is broken. Maybe one day someone smart will come along and clean house there.
post #431 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) You missed the irony in my post.

2) What has Apple stolen Google. Note: including something Apple incorporated after Google isn't the same as stealing from Google. You'll have prove that Google owned the rights.



So the fact that Apple licensed the use of iPad from the parent company means nothing to you?

The notification bar which has been on Android since the G1. Multitasking which again has been on the G1.
post #432 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmg72 View Post

The notification bar which has been on Android since the G1. Multitasking which again has been on the G1.

You mean the notification bar that Android copied from WebOS which is amazing similar to OSes that came before it.

You mean multitasking that the iPhone had on day one.

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post #433 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmg72 View Post

Apple isn't that stupid to go against Google especially since their acquisition of Motorola.

You know, the guys that hold the patents that Apple failed to license for cell phones to operate on a GSM network. While FRAND applies here, Motorola also holds the patent for push mail.

If Apple tries to go after Google, have fun manually retrieving your email because that patent is not part of FRAND and doesn't have to be licensed.

All in all, the entire patent system is broken. Maybe one day someone smart will come along and clean house there.

Yes, Motorola does indeed push email related patents. However, Apple already licenses them. And Motorola cannot leverage those patents where FRAND applies as that against FRAND terms.
post #434 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

Yes, Motorola does indeed push email related patents. However, Apple already licenses them. And Motorola cannot leverage those patents where FRAND applies as that against FRAND terms.

FRAND does not allow for "back pay". Apple wants to license it for what it is licensed to other companies. Motorola is basically setting a penalty against them for failing to license it from the start. That is why Apple is appealing that patent.

There is nothing in FRAND that states you have to give every company the same license rate, just that it has to be reasonable. So that is where we are now with that lawsuit.

Unless Apple just recently licensed the push mail, that is why Apple is banned from sales in Germany. Not sure how that translate over to the US yet. Seems a lot of companies are going to the ITC in foreign countries to get a precedent set for when they bring the case to the US.
post #435 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You mean the notification bar that Android copied from WebOS which is amazing similar to OSes that came before it.

You mean multitasking that the iPhone had on day one.

Don't kid yourself about "true" multitasking there chief.

Look up what true multitasking is and you will see the original iPhone did not have that and was not implemented until later.
post #436 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmg72 View Post

Don't kid yourself about "true" multitasking there chief.

Look up what true multitasking is and you will see the original iPhone did not have that and was not implemented until later.

"In computing, multitasking is a method where multiple tasks, also known as processes, share common processing resources such as a CPU."

Had it from day one. You can find videos of people opening up Safari while listening to iPod and still have the system let them know when an SMS, phone call, alarm or any other many things occurred.

What you're talking about isn't multitasking it's having every app run in the background without a suspend state that intelligently reduces the load on the system thus increasing battery efficiency. This is why the iPhone is best in show for its battery size every single year it's on the market.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #437 of 446
Quote:
There is nothing in FRAND that states you have to give every company the same license rate, just that it has to be reasonable. So that is where we are now with that lawsuit.

Actually, the rate must also be fair and non-discriminatory so Motorola couldn't single out Apple to pay an exorbitant amount if it doesn't require the same for others.
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post #438 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

I agree with you about most of what you said......but there is no Android based tablet that is a threat to the iPad...any version. I am curious what about the iPad3 will make it lightyears ahead of any tablet?

Just all of them combined. As it shows with the iPad's declining market share.
post #439 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmg72 View Post

Don't kid yourself about "true" multitasking there chief.

Look up what true multitasking is and you will see the original iPhone did not have that and was not implemented until later.



The "not real multitasking" argument never fails to amuse.

I made this one yesterday. Didn't think I'd get to use it so quickly.

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post #440 of 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Apple fanboyz cause quite the stink on BB and Android fora. But there's much tit for tat.

Bullshit. Link to a BB or Android site with a lot of Apple "fanboyz" posting.
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  • Apple asks for US preliminary injunction of Samsung's Android 4.0 Galaxy Nexus
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