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Fair Labor Association begins inspections of Apple manufacturing partner Foxconn

post #1 of 62
Thread Starter 
Apple announced on Monday that the Fair Labor Association will conduct special voluntary audits of Foxconn's Chinese assembly factories at Apple's request.

The first inspections began Monday morning in Foxconn's mega-facility in Shenzhen, China, led by a team of labor experts featuring FLA president Auret van Heerden.

"We believe that workers everywhere have the right to a safe and fair work environment, which is why we’ve asked the FLA to independently assess the performance of our largest suppliers,” Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook said. "The inspections now underway are unprecedented in the electronics industry, both in scale and scope, and we appreciate the FLA agreeing to take the unusual step of identifying the factories in their reports."

The FLA will interview thousands of employees at Apple's overseas partners, asking them about working and living conditions in the Chinese factories. Topics will include health, safety, compensation,working hours, and communication with management.

In addition, the FLA will also inspect manufacturing areas, dormitories, and other facilities, and will conduct an extensive review of documents related to procedures at all stages of development.

Apple's announcement of the FLA audits comes after a number of reports, including high-profile stories from The New York Times and CNN, highlighted labor issues in Apple's supply chain. The Times article suggested that Apple has known about those issues in its supply factories for years without requiring that they be addressed, but Cook fired back and called those claims "patently false and offensive."

A month ago, Apple announced it had joined the Fair Labor Association, making it the first technology company to do so. Its participation in the FLA means that Apple agrees to have the association independently assess facilities in its supply chain and report detailed findings on its website.




Apple said on Monday that its suppliers have pledged full cooperation with the FLA, offering unrestricted access to their operations. The FLA's findings and recommendations from these initial assessments will be made publicly available in early March.

In addition to Foxconn, the FLA also plans to conduct audits and interviews at suppliers Quanta and Pegatron later this spring. The FLA's final assessment will reportedly cover facilities where more than 90 percent of Apple's products are assembled.

The FLA audits are in addition to Apple's own audits, the results of which are revealed each year in the company's annual supplier responsibility report. In 2011, a total of 229 audits were conducted, which was an 80 percent increase from 2010.


[ View article on AppleInsider ]
post #2 of 62
"Tell us what you do here at Foxconn"

post #3 of 62
This would mean a lot more if they were looking at factories producing products for more than just Apple. In other words, I would like to see them run audits on the Foxconn plants making products for HP and Samsung and Microsoft and Sony along with the plants making products for Apple. Then it would mean something.
post #4 of 62
I know there is nobody living in the America's or Europe that would work in hi-tech sweat shops like Foxconn. Part of the reason Apple has been raking in big $ goes beyond designing, marketing cutting edge great consumer products. The other half of the equation is the very low production (labor) costs. The workers in these factories must have better working conditions than they have at present. Apple must show it is a corporation that believes in fairness and humanity and not just the bottom line. This century will see the rise of Chinese "Robber Barons" like those in the US 100 years ago. There is no chance of there ever being a Chinese middle class without reform and workers rights, they same thing that once happened in the USA.
post #5 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple announced on Monday that the Fair Labor Association will conduct special voluntary audits of Foxconn's Chinese assembly factories at Apple's request.



This is good news. But who is the Fair Labor Association? What is the quality of their audits?

Is this a Chinese organization? Who pays them? The big manufacturers? The ChiCom government?


Will their inspections be pre-announced? Will management be present when workers are interviewed?

Edit: Here's their website: http://www.fairlabor.org/fla/
post #6 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

This is good news. But who is the Fair Labor Association? What is the quality of their audits?

Is this a Chinese organization? Who pays them? The big manufacturers? The ChiCom government?


Will their inspections be pre-announced? Will management be present when workers are interviewed?

It is *the* fair trade organization for the textile industry. It was formed by Bill Clinton in 1999. More importantly it was the organization that was mis-quoted as having an anti-Apple stance in the New York Times article. They are primarily supported by universities in the USA. As with anything in academia, I'm sure there will be papers. Just look in to them.

http://www.fairlabor.org/fla/
post #7 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

This is good news. But who is the Fair Labor Association? What is the quality of their audits?

Is this a Chinese organization? Who pays them? The big manufacturers? The ChiCom government?


Will their inspections be pre-announced? Will management be present when workers are interviewed?

Edit: Here's their website: http://www.fairlabor.org/fla/

Amazing amount of information at their website!

Quote:
About Us

Incorporated in 1999, the Fair Labor Association (FLA) is a collaborative effort of socially responsible companies, colleges and universities, and civil society organizations to improve working conditions in factories around the world. The FLA has developed a Workplace Code of Conduct, based on ILO standards, and created a practical monitoring, remediation and verification process to achieve those standards.

The FLA is a brand accountability system that places the onus on companies to voluntarily achieve the FLAs labor standards in the factories manufacturing their products. Universities affiliated with the FLA ensure that the licensees supplying their licensed products manufacture or source those products from factories in which workers rights are protected. Learn more about how FLA is making an impact across the globe.
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post #8 of 62
And why won't the People's Republic of China, supposedly a workers' paradise, simply enforce their own labor laws instead of leaving it up to foreign companies to do so?
post #9 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

This is good news. But who is the Fair Labor Association? What is the quality of their audits?

Is this a Chinese organization? Who pays them? The big manufacturers? The ChiCom government?


Will their inspections be pre-announced? Will management be present when workers are interviewed?

Edit: Here's their website: http://www.fairlabor.org/fla/

If you'd take the time to read the information on their site you'd have the answers to nearly all of your questions. If it was just a sham organization and the audits had not teeth then Apple wouldn't be the first tech company to join it.
post #10 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryb View Post

I know there is nobody living in the America's or Europe that would work in hi-tech sweat shops like Foxconn. Part of the reason Apple has been raking in big $ goes beyond designing, marketing cutting edge great consumer products. The other half of the equation is the very low production (labor) costs. The workers in these factories must have better working conditions than they have at present. Apple must show it is a corporation that believes in fairness and humanity and not just the bottom line. This century will see the rise of Chinese "Robber Barons" like those in the US 100 years ago. There is no chance of there ever being a Chinese middle class without reform and workers rights, they same thing that once happened in the USA.

Why? You're making an arbitrary decision that U.S. standards should apply in China. What is the basis for that?

And if you're going to take that position, why aren't you picketing that U.S. businesses are slave labor shops because they don't give women a full year of maternity leave like Canada? Or you should be picketing U.S. businesses because they make workers put in more than 35 hours a week - which is the legal limit in France.

Different standards apply around the world. Every country has its own standards based on its culture and present state of its economy. It is hypocritical to argue that U.S. companies are wrong for not using U.S. standards in China while ignoring the fact that U.S. standards are not as generous as some other countries.
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post #11 of 62
One of the greatest complaints by the workers is the name calling they have to endure by management.

For instance, you'll notice the Chinese lettering on the woman's left arm. That actually reads:

"You are a poopy-head".

[I could erase this because it may sound insensitive, but, since I said it, I'll leave it up. I guess I just don't take all this chest thumping by some people as being any more serious than my comment]

[this was, by the way, a nod to a comment made by Zither in another thread]
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post #12 of 62
Oh man, here comes the curse of being big. Now activists, lawyers and politicians won't leave Apple in peace anymore eh?
post #13 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtamesis View Post

And why won't the People's Republic of China, supposedly a workers' paradise, simply enforce their own labor laws instead of leaving it up to foreign companies to do so?

Why do we let executives take huge bonuses when their companies are in bankruptcy? Sometimes it is hard for government to get involved because they do not have direct control over the private sector. Besides, their government is supportive of these efforts and have some of their own as far as I've heard. Despite the fact that many people like to spread FUD about this, China is a free market society just like us. Think of it as a multi-pronged approach. We can try to enforce fair supplier contracts and they can try to introduce regulation. We all know the effect of over-regulation, so it is a difficult problem to solve. It is interesting that as we try to increase workers rights in China, we are trying to strip them away here in the USA.
post #14 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

Why do we let executives take huge bonuses when their companies are in bankruptcy? Sometimes it is hard for government to get involved because they do not have direct control over the private sector. Besides, their government is supportive of these efforts and have some of their own as far as I've heard.

Sorry, I just have to check... we are talking about China, right? [see bold text above]
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post #15 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryb View Post

I know there is nobody living in the America's or Europe that would work in hi-tech sweat shops like Foxconn. Part of the reason Apple has been raking in big $ goes beyond designing, marketing cutting edge great consumer products. The other half of the equation is the very low production (labor) costs. The workers in these factories must have better working conditions than they have at present. Apple must show it is a corporation that believes in fairness and humanity and not just the bottom line. This century will see the rise of Chinese "Robber Barons" like those in the US 100 years ago. There is no chance of there ever being a Chinese middle class without reform and workers rights, they same thing that once happened in the USA.

I conceptually agree with you but this is a problem for the Chinese labor movement and China to figure out. I know it sounds harsh but a huge problem with America is meddling in places they have no business and this is one of them. I am a firm believer in letting people do what they have to do, even if they have to fail many times to get it done. The Chinese people need to empower themselves if they intend on having voice and negotiation power with big corporations like Foxconn. There is a a lot of blood, sweat and tears to be shed.

Apple can certainly influence the outcome of some labor policies but they cannot make Foxconn management labor decisions. A key thing that a lot of people don't understand is that Apple does not employ any Foxconn employees.

I do think that Apple is interested in better working conditions, unlike what some may say on this board Apple is socially conscious but they can only influence China and labor relations to a point where it gets to being out of the scope of running a business.

Also from what little I know of SJ's manufacturing philosophy, I don't even think he wants iOS devices and Macs assembled by people at all.
post #16 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtamesis View Post

And why won't the People's Republic of China, supposedly a workers' paradise, simply enforce their own labor laws instead of leaving it up to foreign companies to do so?

China can't even regulate environmental protection what makes you think they have enforceable labor laws? China like other countries is corrupt but its far more open and accepted practice.

Its not up to Apple to coerce Foxconn to enforce labor laws. Foxconn is the real bad guy here and always has been.
post #17 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

One of the greatest complaints by the workers is the name calling they have to endure by management.

For instance, you'll notice the Chinese lettering on the woman's left arm. That actually reads:

"You are a poopy-head".

Really? This is an issue that should be thus trivialized?
post #18 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Really? This is an issue that should be thus trivialized?

More moral indignation... how cool.
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post #19 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Why? You're making an arbitrary decision that U.S. standards should apply in China. What is the basis for that?

And if you're going to take that position, why aren't you picketing that U.S. businesses are slave labor shops because they don't give women a full year of maternity leave like Canada? Or you should be picketing U.S. businesses because they make workers put in more than 35 hours a week - which is the legal limit in France.

Different standards apply around the world. Every country has its own standards based on its culture and present state of its economy. It is hypocritical to argue that U.S. companies are wrong for not using U.S. standards in China while ignoring the fact that U.S. standards are not as generous as some other countries.

jragosta, why do you continue to insinuate that it is ok to treat people poorly as long as its in the context and societal norm of their culture, socioeconomic status or geopolitical condition.

Was it OK for Serbs to gang rape and kill Bosniak women because they could? The Chinese need to aspire to a higher standard in worker treatment but its not up to Apple to lead that charge. If working in a foxconn plant is such a glorious experience that pays boats loads of money I don't see many Americans swarming to work in those sweatshops.
post #20 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBRSTREETG View Post

jragosta, why do you continue to insinuate that it is ok to treat people poorly as long as its in the context and societal norm of their culture, socioeconomic status or geopolitical condition.

Was it OK for Serbs to gang rape and kill Bosniak women because they could? The Chinese need to aspire to a higher standard in worker treatment but its not up to Apple to lead that charge. If working in a foxconn plant is such a glorious experience that pays boats loads of money I don't see many Americans swarming to work in those sweatshops.

That may happen yet.

[I'm always wondering who the grand arbiter is in all of this. I think it's inhumane to make people work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. I think we should work no more than 4 days a week and 6 hours a day with a minimum of 4 weeks holiday and $20 hour.]
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post #21 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

That may happen yet.

Where this economy is going that may be true. For an expat working in engineering, business or management, job outlooks are good in Shengzhou.
post #22 of 62
Big mistake by the FLA allowing Apple to join them. Now instead of Apple being put under scrutiny for their labour practices, FLA will be put under scrutiny for their methods.

It's already happening. Forums everywhere are filled with comments like "FLA only issues reports based on who pays them" or "Foxconn will clean up just before the FLA arrives so they get a good report and it will be back to slave labour when they leave".

Funny how anything that gets mentioned along with Apple automatically becomes the target of all the iHaters.
post #23 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBRSTREETG View Post

jragosta, why do you continue to insinuate that it is ok to treat people poorly as long as its in the context and societal norm of their culture, socioeconomic status or geopolitical condition.

Was it OK for Serbs to gang rape and kill Bosniak women because they could? The Chinese need to aspire to a higher standard in worker treatment but its not up to Apple to lead that charge. If working in a foxconn plant is such a glorious experience that pays boats loads of money I don't see many Americans swarming to work in those sweatshops.

Please answer my question.

Why aren't you picketing U.S. businesses because they don't give a year of paid maternity leave like Canada?

Why aren't you picketing U.S. businesses because they require workers to work more than 35 hours per week like in France?

Why aren't you picketing U.S. businesses because they don't pay their janitors the same as their CEOs?

Community standards matter.
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post #24 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Why aren't you picketing U.S. businesses because they don't give a year of paid maternity leave like Canada?

Why aren't you picketing U.S. businesses because they require workers to work more than 35 hours per week like in France?

Why aren't you picketing U.S. businesses because they don't pay their janitors the same as their CEOs?



Because doing those things would be asinine? Because there are bigger fish to fry?

Just my guess.
post #25 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Because doing those things would be asinine? Because there are bigger fish to fry?

Just my guess.

Much bigger fish to fry... and the working conditions at Foxconn wouldn't even be close to #1 on the list.

(but that isn't to say that working conditions at Foxconn aren't a concern)
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post #26 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Please answer my question.

Why aren't you picketing U.S. businesses because they don't give a year of paid maternity leave like Canada?

Why aren't you picketing U.S. businesses because they require workers to work more than 35 hours per week like in France?

Why aren't you picketing U.S. businesses because they don't pay their janitors the same as their CEOs?

Community standards matter.

Those aren't issues I am really passionate about. I think Canada and Europe's maternity leave is great by the way. I don't have time to picket, I had a contract that expired and I was hired on to another tech company in a week.

You don't have to work 40 hours per week to be productive. Don't work to much either, its bad for you, live a little.

CEO compensation lately has little bearing on performance, Apple excluded from that mix of course.

Go to China and work at Foxconn if its so great. I hope that doesn't sound insulting but I think anybody would be insulted because its really not that great.

Having empathy for others matter.
post #27 of 62
As an Apple fan and stockholder, I'm very happy to hear this news.
post #28 of 62
Just to echo the sentiments of all tech site comment sections I've seen so far..

LOL OBVIOUS PR MOVE, THIS WILL DO NOTHING, RESULTS WILL BE BOUGHT AND PAYED FOR, APPLE WILL CONTINUE ABUSING WORKERS, APPLE MUST BE BOYCOTTED!!

..meanwhile, we don't hear a peep from any other company which deals with production facilities with WORSE conditions (ie. every single tech company out there)- and they all get a free pass. Just mind-blowing.
post #29 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Just to echo the sentiments of all tech site comment sections I've seen so far..

LOL OBVIOUS PR MOVE, THIS WILL DO NOTHING, RESULTS WILL BE BOUGHT AND PAYED FOR, APPLE WILL CONTINUE ABUSING WORKERS, APPLE MUST BE BOYCOTTED!!

..meanwhile, we don't hear a peep from any other company which deals with production facilities with WORSE conditions (ie. every single tech company out there)- and they all get a free pass. Just mind-blowing.

They've all turned out the lights and are sitting quiet in case anyone comes knocking at their door.
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post #30 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBRSTREETG View Post

Go to China and work at Foxconn if its so great. I hope that doesn't sound insulting but I think anybody would be insulted because its really not that great.

Possibly the most mind-blowingly ridiculous line of reasoning I've ever heard. First of all, not a single person has mentioned Foxconn is 'so great!'. So why the fuck are you trying to be disingenuous by arguing against a fictional, ridiculous statement nobody has ever made? There isn't a single manufacturing facility on the planet that is 'great'. Thanks, we all know it's not great, and nobody is arguing that it is. Why are you trying to lower the level of discourse into this kindergarten type of garbage? There are things in between 'worst working conditions in the world' to 'so great!'. The question is, where does Foxconn fall compared to other companies in the same field in the same area, and how does Apple compare to other companies in terms of dealing with the situation? The answer to both is 'superior'.

Your 'go and work at Foxconn if its so great' line is just below 'why dont you go and marry it if its so great' in terms of stupidity. No, I'm not going to move across the world to work at an entry level manufacturing facility in China, and that fact doesn't contract anything I could ever say about Foxconn because it's utterly irrational. Also, I doubt I'd even get in, since waiting lists are in the tens of thousands for people to desperately work there and who desperately need the money.
post #31 of 62
I have to admit, I am a bit shocked and saddened by the working conditions that I see in those photos.

Because I am such a humanitarian and caring liberal, I have now decided that I'm going to start an online petition so that none of the workers will have to wear those funny looking blue hats anymore. I am now convinced that those hats are a significant cause of suicide. Switch the hats out, and watch the rates drop by at least a few percent!
post #32 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBRSTREETG View Post

Those aren't issues I am really passionate about. I think Canada and Europe's maternity leave is great by the way. I don't have time to picket, I had a contract that expired and I was hired on to another tech company in a week.

You don't have to work 40 hours per week to be productive. Don't work to much either, its bad for you, live a little.

CEO compensation lately has little bearing on performance, Apple excluded from that mix of course.

Why would anyone (much less Apple) care about what issues you're passionate about? Either it's OK or it's not. And if it's not OK for Apple's subcontractors to use local standards, then it's not OK for U.S. manufacturers to use local standards, either. You should be picketing U.S. companies for overpaying CEOs, for not giving adequate maternity leave, and for having too long a work week - at least by standards in some other countries.

Jumping on Apple while ignoring all the other companies is hypocritical, anyway. Doing so while ignoring the fact that U.S. companies don't follow the same standards as other countries, is doubly hypocritical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBRSTREETG View Post

Go to China and work at Foxconn if its so great. I hope that doesn't sound insulting but I think anybody would be insulted because its really not that great.

Having empathy for others matter.

Sure it matters. Which is why I'm happy that Apple has created half a million jobs in China where those families would otherwise starve. Maybe Apple should make Foxconn close the factory and let those people starve.

Chinese people are lining up for these jobs. They're among the best jobs in China. Who are you to impose your standards on them?
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post #33 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBRSTREETG View Post

Those aren't issues I am really passionate about. I think Canada and Europe's maternity leave is great by the way. I don't have time to picket, I had a contract that expired and I was hired on to another tech company in a week. .

Oh I see. So you're so 'passionate' but this issue, but have 'no time' to do anything about it besides posting on internet message-boards. God knows I'd be embarrassed about myself if that's the extent of what I did in response to humanitarian issues I would call myself 'passionate' about. For the issues I care about I've organized events, have done public speaking founded activist groups, joined groups and taken leadership roles in them, written newspaper articles, held educational seminars and distributed material in educational institutions, ets.

Your actions, or lack of them, is an embarrassment to the term passion. So is the clear lack of any research you've done on the issue, and your blatant lack of understanding. I would hope someone takes the effort to do real investigation and research into the issues he calls himself passionate about, which you clearly have not done and have no interest in doing. Your only course of action is to attack the one and only company doing anything at all, and doing the most, in a global economic environment dictating certain realities, that every single other company is also abiding by yet doing much less and we're not hearing a peep from. This doesn't sound like any informed passion to me, it sounds like irrational trolling.
post #34 of 62
While this is a good step, the reality is that these kind of things have only a small measure of impact. Unless they're always unannounced (they're usually announced), the factory can just "dress to impress" during the visit. And wherever there's reporting, there's bribes ready to be handed out.

This isn't against Apple. It's just reality. I mean, hey, at least Apple is doing something, even if it may be for PR. It's a start. But it won't really fix things. Even if Apple *demanded* that Foxconn fix any problems, how would they enforce it? Foxconn could just tamper with reports or pay off reporting agencies. Should they leave Foxconn? Where would they go? Would the new company be any better?

My whole stance on this issue is that it's too big of an issue for Apple to be held responsible. These are HUGE issues, probably bigger than even the U.S. government could tackle. So why stone Apple? Why not be mad at the Chinese government, the U.S. government, and human society as a whole (where the real problem lies)?
post #35 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

While this is a good step, the reality is that these kind of things have only a small measure of impact. Unless they're always unannounced (they're usually announced), the factory can just "dress to impress" during the visit. And wherever there's reporting, there's bribes ready to be handed out.

This isn't against Apple. It's just reality. I mean, hey, at least Apple is doing something, even if it may be for PR. It's a start. But it won't really fix things. Even if Apple *demanded* that Foxconn fix any problems, how would they enforce it? Foxconn could just tamper with reports or pay off reporting agencies. Should they leave Foxconn? Where would they go? Would the new company be any better?

My whole stance on this issue is that it's too big of an issue for Apple to be held responsible. These are HUGE issues, probably bigger than even the U.S. government could tackle. So why stone Apple? Why not be mad at the Chinese government, the U.S. government, and human society as a whole (where the real problem lies)?

I wonder what would happen if Sam Walton's empire had to close its doors because goods made in China were no longer available because of unfair labor practices. I can guarantee we'd get a few reverse petitions and demonstrations berating China for not supplying America with cheap shit.
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post #36 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Chinese people are lining up for these jobs. They're among the best jobs in China. Who are you to impose your standards on them?

Best jobs in China doesn't mean they are great jobs. It doesn't help that China is misleading them about pay rate and benefits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Your actions, or lack of them, is an embarrassment to the term passion. So is the clear lack of any research you've done on the issue, and your blatant lack of understanding.

You need to quit riding peoples a**es. You don't have to be an expert on a topic to talk about or support it.

You really have nothing important to contribute besides "taming the trolls". I don't think you understand what troll means and your blatant misuse of the term is embarrassing. See, I can do it too. It's annoying isn't it?
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post #37 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I wonder what would happen if Sam Walton's empire had to close its doors because goods made in China were no longer available because of unfair labor practices. I can guarantee we'd get a few reverse petitions and demonstrations berating China for not supplying America with cheap shit.

Thus, my complaint about human society.

Ironically, craving ever-cheaper prices has meant the loss of many jobs, leading to a lower level of real income for many people, thus making the "cheaper" prices more expensive.
post #38 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryb View Post

I know there is nobody living in the America's or Europe that would work in hi-tech sweat shops like Foxconn. Part of the reason Apple has been raking in big $ goes beyond designing, marketing cutting edge great consumer products. The other half of the equation is the very low production (labor) costs. The workers in these factories must have better working conditions than they have at present. Apple must show it is a corporation that believes in fairness and humanity and not just the bottom line. This century will see the rise of Chinese "Robber Barons" like those in the US 100 years ago. There is no chance of there ever being a Chinese middle class without reform and workers rights, they same thing that once happened in the USA.


In all honesty, it is Apple's responsibility to make money and provide a return on investment it it's shareholders. Apple's job is not to further the Chinese middle class. While they may want to show interest in being a model for workers rights, that should and will come second to the bottom line.
post #39 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

Thus, my complaint about human society.

Ironically, craving ever-cheaper prices has meant the loss of many jobs, leading to a lower level of real income for many people, thus making the "cheaper" prices more expensive.

... and my comment came off of your lead about human society.

(I just bolded, if that's a word, your text)
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post #40 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

Best jobs in China doesn't mean they are great jobs. It doesn't help that China is misleading them about pay rate and benefits.

Again, who the hell is suggesting these jobs are great, will be great, or should be great? I mean, really? How do you propose manufacturing jobs becomes GREAT? Will entry jobs in the US, for example, ever be GREAT? These are jobs that require no education, no experience, little to no personality traits or skill, and have extremely high turnover rates. Is this now the fictional goal, just so we can keep pretending to be outraged and disappointed when it is never reached? Not every job in the world can be GREAT least of all manufacturing jobs. Acknowledging that doesn't make me an asshole, it makes me a sane, rational person that lives in this universe. Stop demanding insane, irrational realities, it doesn't being anyone closer to solving anything.
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