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Apple struggles in iPad trademark dispute in China as authorities seize units - Page 2

post #41 of 72
2/14/12 at 3:00am
I'm sure that Apple would be able to trace the serial numbers of these "confiscated" iPADs, and make them impossible to register. [racist comment removed]
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post #42 of 72
2/14/12 at 3:13am
Sweet karma.
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post #43 of 72
2/14/12 at 3:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by realitycheck69 View Post

Sweet karma.

Yup, dance with the devil....
Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster by your side, kid.
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Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster by your side, kid.
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post #44 of 72
2/14/12 at 4:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

This is an interesting situation for Apple. So they licensed for all use of iPad and Proview is lying or someone at Apple messed up when securing the rights to the name.




If they can pull that off that will be devastating to Apple. Are those Brazilian iPad factories up and running yet? Note their market cap is listed as $155 million.

It might be time to shift manufacturing from China. Would Apple rethink manufacturing other products in China if the export ban succeeds? It could be very interesting....... They might win the battle so to speak but lose the war if Apple starts to make their products somewhere else.

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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post #45 of 72
2/14/12 at 4:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Can't Apple just pay them off it it comes down to that? It's better than all iPads being pulled off shelves in China.

Yeah, they wanted billions of dollars.

The more changes in China, the more stays same.

There is a Chinese saying that roughly translates to: the strongest dragon will have a difficult time betting a local snake.

Everybody wants a piece of Apple's huge cash pile, including some local Chinese government officials.
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post #46 of 72
2/14/12 at 5:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

I'm taking all this with a grain of salt. As with most rumors, lots of discussion but little substance.

this isn't rumour. Still, you could just bury your head in the sand and ignore what's actually happening, as seems to be pretty standard around here.

Apple screwed up by not doing its due diligence with the people that bought the rights from. To then go ahead with promoting and selling something they dont hold the copyright to, and has already been thrown out of court is just childish.

45 ipads, granted, isn't a lot, but the ball will get rolling, and the confiscation and destruction of promotional material will be costly enough

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill60

Apple should just remove the word "iPad" from the boxes and promotional material.

that wont cut it.. although if apple can't resolve the matter it will have to come down to a rename, but not just from promotional material and boxes.

I wouldn't be surprised if apple were to simply threaten moving its iDevice production out of china. Seems like a typical bullish attitude for them to take.
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post #47 of 72
2/14/12 at 5:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shao View Post

this isn't rumour. Still, you could just bury your head in the sand and ignore what's actually happening, as seems to be pretty standard around here.

Apple screwed up by not doing its due diligence with the people that bought the rights from. To then go ahead with promoting and selling something they dont hold the copyright to, and has already been thrown out of court is just childish.

45 ipads, granted, isn't a lot, but the ball will get rolling, and the confiscation and destruction of promotional material will be costly enough



that wont cut it.. although if apple can't resolve the matter it will have to come down to a rename, but not just from promotional material and boxes.

I wouldn't be surprised if apple were to simply threaten moving its iDevice production out of china. Seems like a typical bullish attitude for them to take.

So how long before Goldman Sach pounces and send Apple stock back to $400 again? They may not have that many stocks but that, too, will set the ball rolling.
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post #48 of 72
2/14/12 at 5:27am
If this Chinese company has the name iPad in English I wonder if Apple could simply use the name iPad in Chinese?
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #49 of 72
2/14/12 at 5:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPDLVMH View Post

I'm sure that Apple would be able to trace the serial numbers of these "confiscated" iPADs, and make them impossible to register. Those chinkies who thought they got an iPAD for free will be disappointed.

You're kidding? Even if you are, that's not acceptable.
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post #50 of 72
2/14/12 at 5:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by miquet View Post

Honda and other Japanese companies failed in chinese legal battles with products that were copied by local Chinese companies even the logo's were so similar and hard to tell apart. I agree that manufacturing in the US or even pretty much third world NZ ( foxcon into brazil ) would be one of the greatest gifts back to the american people right now any job is better than no job.
Foxcon has built so much up just for the manufacture of apple products that I agree with descramble's comment that the govt. would step in.

Look what happened about 10 years ago with the riots in china organized by the govt against Japanese companies who had invested in china , they destroyed supermarkets and businesses ( a japanese restaurant windows smashed and plundered- owned by a local chinese citizen just catering for the Japanese businessmen in china and were all taking pictures outside Japan embassy littered with stuff ( with Sony cybershot's might I add ) when the golden week vacationers started to cancel their holidays to Japan then the govt turned around and said all rioters will be hunted down please Japan we love you ! . Too late that year very few vacationed in china from Japan and most stayed home and spent money at home .

Even in NZ the leading electrical stores sell cheap knock offs of Apple gear I am sure they are copyrighted and patented but still they look so identical. Chinese manufactures will knock out copies quicker than apple can get the next design out.

While not totally untrue, this is a serious retelling of history. Making it up as you go along?
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post #51 of 72
2/14/12 at 5:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shao View Post

this isn't rumour. Still, you could just bury your head in the sand and ignore what's actually happening, as seems to be pretty standard around here.

Apple screwed up by not doing its due diligence with the people that bought the rights from. To then go ahead with promoting and selling something they dont hold the copyright to, and has already been thrown out of court is just childish.

I wouldn't say they screwed up. This ain't over yet. But indeed, it is typical of them to overlook (deliberately?) trademark issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shao View Post

I wouldn't be surprised if apple were to simply threaten moving its iDevice production out of china. Seems like a typical bullish attitude for them to take.

You should be surprised if they did. Apple values reliable suppliers and separates those relationships from other competitive business interactions. Just as they did not cut off Samsung, they will not cut off Foxconn. Who outside of China can step into the breach?
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post #52 of 72
2/14/12 at 5:41am
No he didn't made it up on both stories. And those fake Honda motorcycles still on sale to this day. Not a bad copy of Honda NR series to be honest. Want one?
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post #53 of 72
2/14/12 at 5:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

I
You should be surprised if they did. Apple values reliable suppliers and separates those relationships from other competitive business interactions. Just as they did not cut off Samsung, they will not cut off Foxconn. Who outside of China can step into the breach?

No one can at this time of writing. And Brazilian factory is at least 2 more years away from starting production.
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post #54 of 72
2/14/12 at 5:54am
I apologise for my over-the-top reaction, most of what I needed to express has been mentioned in this thread, I have edited out my comments.

I think we all mostly agree here that perhaps the life we enjoy in he developed world is now a minority on a global scale. But however everyone should continue to hold companies and countries accountable to humankind.

There are certainly many concerns about China but also many other developing countries. I wonder how best to tackle this issue. I was shopping today and I realised how immense our consumption is of China-made goods.
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post #55 of 72
2/14/12 at 6:05am
Ironic that China are complaining about copyright infringement. Jeez, if Europe and America did the same then China would export next to nothing.
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post #56 of 72
2/14/12 at 6:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I apologise for my over-the-top reaction, most of what I needed to express has been mentioned in this thread, I have edited out my comments.

I think we all mostly agree here that perhaps the life we enjoy in he developed world is now a minority on a global scale. But however everyone should continue to hold companies and countries accountable to humankind.

There are certainly many concerns about China but also many other developing countries. I wonder how best to tackle this issue. I was shopping today and I realised how immense our consumption is of China-made goods.

You most certainly were over the top, but nevertheless i think you were right to be angry. And yes there is hardly a way that we could go and say "let's boycott chinese products". It's hard to realize how dependent we have become towards global trading.
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post #57 of 72
2/14/12 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

The communists are lying and they have zero honor. A rat is more trustworthy. Apple already bought the rights from those criminals. And how comical is it that China is attempting to enforce any sort of rules when practically all they do in China is rip other products off? Counterfeiting is a huge industry for them.

"We bought Proview's worldwide rights to the iPad trademark in 10 different countries several years ago. Proview refuses to honor their agreement with Apple in China," said an Apple spokeswoman in Beijing, Carolyn Wu.

And of course that little gang of weasels has the corrupt government on their side, as China is incredibly corrupt and ranks below almost all developed countries.

Chinese news reports say Proview, which makes computer displays, is deep in debt and needs a big settlement from Apple.

So, they're liars, untrustworthy and they're desperately broke. Nobody needs to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out that there lies the perfect motive behind their desperate and laughable move. 45 iPads. If somebody had confiscated 45 Android tablets, that would mean that worldwide sales would be cut in half, but I don't think that 45 iPads is going to matter much to anybody.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wir...6#.TzoH5JhvnyM

While that's entirely possible, I would caution you not to jump to conclusions. It is also possible that Apple's attorneys messed up and did not buy what they thought they were buying. IP law is very arcane in China and it is not impossible for Apple to have messed up.

I agree that your scenario is perhaps the more likely scenario, but let's wait until we know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairb View Post

This will never happen. China is reliant on non Chinese companies having their product produced in China. It is a significant part of their income.

Regardless of who owns the name for iPad in China, I can not see the Chinese government stoping Apple having the iPad made in China and shipped to countries where they do own the name, especially with the new production facilities being built outside of China.

I don't think they can legally do that. They can prevent the sale of the product in China, but if Apple has the legal right to use the iPad name in other countries, it is perfectly legal to manufacture the product in China as long as it is not sold there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by decsramble View Post

Quickest solution would be for Tim Cook to stand up on stage at the launch of the iPad3 and say that due to trademark and work condition concerns this might be their last device manufactured in China and that Apple is actively looking at other options for production including discussions with other consumer electronics companies on the best way to introduce industry wide "ethically" manufactured devices, built in America...

20 minutes later the Chinese government will be explaining to Proview why they might be better off just settling for a reasonable amount of money or dropping the case.

That would be nice, but it's not likely to happen. Since everyone knows that moving production somewhere else would be horrendously expensive in terms of initial cost as well as long term costs (plus there would be a drop in quality during the transition), such an announcement would be a disaster for the stock price.

More likely, Apple's attorneys would meet with the Chinese government directly and explain to them that they will begin working with other countries - including expanding their presence in Brazil.
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post #58 of 72
2/14/12 at 7:09am
Just came by to post my comment as you all were waiting for.

Well well, what do we have here. An export ban from China. Doesnt Apple make ALL of their products from China? This should hurt Apple, just a little bit.

Karma.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #59 of 72
2/14/12 at 7:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Just came by to post my comment as you all were waiting for.

Well well, what do we have here. An export ban from China. Doesnt Apple make ALL of their products from China? This should hurt Apple, just a little bit.

Karma.

Karma in what way?! What does any of this have to do with karma?! Apple bought global rights to the iPad name.

China doesn't like it? They'll move all manufacturing to Taiwan. Who cares.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #60 of 72
2/14/12 at 7:27am
This is political and Taiwan is the issue. I would expect no contract with any entity in Taiwan will be honored in China. I think it is that simple.

The President is meeting with Chinese Vice President Xi Jinping today. This issue and others like might be part of the discussion.
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post #61 of 72
2/14/12 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by decsramble View Post

Quickest solution would be for Tim Cook to stand up on stage at the launch of the iPad3 and say that due to trademark and work condition concerns this might be their last device manufactured in China and that Apple is actively looking at other options for production including discussions with other consumer electronics companies on the best way to introduce industry wide "ethically" manufactured devices, built in America...

20 minutes later the Chinese government will be explaining to Proview why they might be better off just settling for a reasonable amount of money or dropping the case.

Your suggestion would add some pressure, but Apple sees China as its biggest potential market, and would not take that step at this time. Foxconn in Brazil is their bargaining chip for supplying to the rest of the world, but I doubt it has the production capacity yet, or ever.
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post #62 of 72
2/14/12 at 7:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Can't Apple just pay them off it it comes down to that? It's better than all iPads being pulled off shelves in China.

They could. But Apple's argument is that they (or rather IP Application Development) bought the Global rights from Proview's parent company in good faith and were never told that that was really "global means everywhere that we control which doesn't include China". So why should they have to.

I say that Apple just give up. Give in. Stop selling the iPad in China. And I mean stop. Not rename it but pull it. Accept the ban and cease all sales by anyone and to anyone in China. Have production shifted to non Chinese factories as well. But also put the Chinese government on guard that they created this ban and it is their job to make sure that no one is allowed to smuggle in Apple iPads from Hong Kong etc. And sue the crap out of the government when they turn a blind eye on blatant rip offs.

After that money and those jobs are gone, the Chinese government could change their minds about how they ruled in the case and suddenly that appeal could go to Apple. They might be required to pay for the rights but it would be a paltry sum for Apple since they could argue that they should have to pay based on the value of the mark at the time they bought the rest and thus it would be no more than the $50k they allegedly paid for the 'global rights'.
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post #63 of 72
2/14/12 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by decsramble View Post

Quickest solution would be for Tim Cook to stand up on stage at the launch of the iPad3 and say that due to trademark and work condition concerns this might be their last device manufactured in China and that Apple is actively looking at other options for production including discussions with other consumer electronics companies on the best way to introduce industry wide "ethically" manufactured devices, built in America...

Never happen. Which is not to say that Apple wouldn't pull their business. But Cook would never announce it like that. It would be setting themselves up for failure because all their competition would know to go corner all the production factories etc. Apple would to do and then tell that they did it. Rather like how they go and buy up tons of parts and then announce the product that uses it. Then when the other boys try to copy it they find that they can't get the supplies they need cause of Apple's deals.
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post #64 of 72
2/14/12 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Karma in what way?! What does any of this have to do with karma?! Apple bought global rights to the iPad name.

China doesn't like it? They'll move all manufacturing to Taiwan. Who cares.

Maybe Karma is not the correct word... perhaps ironic.

Anyways... when one deals with an organization (company, country you name it) that appears to not fully play by the rules, or changes the rules arbitrarily or arbitrarily enforces them, or is susceptible to graft etc... what should one expect to happen?

Perhaps Apple did screw up or this is just an aberation and the good people of the chinese communist party and 'their' courts will remedy the issue ... we shall see.\

Say what you will about US business climate... but we have a pretty good reputation of 'playing fairly', having good checks and balances, fair courts, etc... at least compared to some parts of the world. Maybe thats not a good thing?
Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster by your side, kid.
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Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster by your side, kid.
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post #65 of 72
2/14/12 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Apple bought global rights to the iPad name.


Ummmm.....no they didn't. If they had done that, they would not be in this mess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

China doesn't like it? They'll move all manufacturing to Taiwan. Who cares.

That is just plain impossible.
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post #66 of 72
2/14/12 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Ummmm.....no they didn't. If they had done that, they would not be in this mess.

Quote:
According to Mr Yang [Proview's Chairman], Proview Electronics (Taiwan) agreed in 2006 to sell the global trademark for the IPAD name to a US-registered company called IP Application Development (IPAD) for £35,000 ($55,104). Proview did not at the time suspect the company had any link with Apple.

However, Mr Yang claims that the trademarks for the Chinese market were not included in that agreement.

Sounds more like Yang needs to get a better grasp on what the word 'global' means.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #67 of 72
2/14/12 at 10:25am
Apple, just threaten to take away all the jobs. That would shut them up real F'ing fast.

Meanwhile I wish you really did had the balls, leadership, and insight over pure financial greed, to actually do it and bring them back to America...
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post #68 of 72
2/14/12 at 10:34am
Apple needs to tell Foxconn two things:

1) Get the Brazilian facility online and at capacity ASAP;
2) Find another country for additional IOS production.

Note that the latter should not be presented as a threat to the Chinese government, it is simply a risk management move to minimize exposure to problems like this or other catastrophic issues (like an earthquake in China). If located in India, the supply chain would not even be lengthened as much as it is to Brazil.
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post #69 of 72
2/14/12 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Sounds more like Yang needs to get a better grasp on what the word 'global' means.

Given that the company that Apple contracted with did not own the rights to China, it seems far-fetched to think that the word or phrase used in the contract included the Chinese rights.

Apple should have known who owned what. Due diligence generally includes making sure that the seller really owns what you want to buy. Otherwise, you end up "buying" the friggin Brooklyn Bridge.
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post #70 of 72
2/14/12 at 11:34am
Serves the whole industry right for taking advantage of lax laws in other countries to get 'better prices'. I'm actually Canadian but companies should manufacture their products in their own country.
Let's face it, regardless of how much money Foxconn or Pegatron is making compared to Apple, the great majority of that money is just being shipped directly overseas. What did they think was going to happen to their country?
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post #71 of 72
2/14/12 at 2:33pm
Apple should change the name to Padi....
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post #72 of 72
2/14/12 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glublick View Post

Apple should change the name to Padi....

Sorry, taken by Professional Association Of Divers.
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