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Samsung says an Apple television won't beat them in picture quality

post #1 of 161
Thread Starter 
If Apple does produce a television set, Samsung officials believe their expertise will allow them to handily beat their rival in terms of picture quality.

"We've not seen what they've done but what we can say is they don't have 10,000 people in R&D in the vision category," AV production manager Chris Moseley told Pocket-Lint. "They don't have the best scaling engine in the world and they don't have world renowned picture quality that has been awarded more than anyone else."

As a major part of Apple's supply chain for devices ranging from the iPhone to the iPad to Macs, Samsung has provided LCDs for years for Apple's electronics. While Samsung develops its own displays, Apple instead buys its screens from a number of providers, including LG and Sharp.

Samsung's comments come as Apple is rumored to be working on its own full-fledged television set. While Samsung officials may be focused on picture quality, late Apple co-founder Steve Jobs seemed more focused on interacting with the device when he told biographer Walter Isaacson that he felt he had "cracked" the secret to a simple and elegant television set.

"It will have the simplest user interface you could imagine," he said. "I finally cracked it."

But Moseley at Samsung said he believes that television sets are "ultimately about picture quality." He said additional features, like "how smart they are" can be "great," but they're also a "secondary consideration."




"The ultimate is about picture quality and there is no way that anyone, new or old, can come along this year or next and beat us on picture quality," he said. "So, from that perspective, it's not a great concern, but it remains to be seen what they're going to come out with, if anything."

Last month at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, Nev., Samsung showed off its own voice controls for its latest television sets that will hit the market this year. In addition, Samsung's "smart" TVs will also be controllable through motion and will feature face recognition. The Korean electronics maker also introduced a "Smart Evolution" concept that will allow certain TV sets to be upgradeable, rather than requiring customers to buy an entirely new model.


[ View article on AppleInsider ]
post #2 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

But Moseley at Samsung said he believes that television sets are "ultimately about picture quality." He said additional features, like "how smart they are" can be "great," but they're also a "secondary consideration."

just like tablets will ultimately be about flash playback and phones will need the ability to run windows

APPLE IS DOOMED!
post #3 of 161
No, not doomed, but I don't see them becoming the #1 TV manufacturer either.
post #4 of 161
Looks like the list is going to be expanded.

http://gizmodo.com/5416781/top-5-ass...quotes-in-2007
post #5 of 161
That said, my 42" TV is about 5 years old. If they make a nice 55" that isn't break-the-bank expensive, I'll be in line with my wallet ready.
post #6 of 161
10,000 people in vision R&D?

Well, maybe that is an advantage. But, Apple has done pretty well with smaller groups, and in some areas with just a single genius designer. We'll see.

If all a TV can do is display content (with some horrid internet functions grafted on), then picture quality is paramount.

If Apple does define an interface that adds real value, then a display that is "good enough" may not be such a handicap.
post #7 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshmaker View Post

No, not doomed, but I don't see them becoming the #1 TV manufacturer either.

"not this year or next", so 2014 Apple will be #1 TV manufacturer, you heard it straight from Samsung!
post #8 of 161
Samsung sounds scared. Why release a comment about a product they have not seen.
post #9 of 161
Hear that, Apple?

Don't even bother competing. Just stick to what you know best, so you don't make a mockery of yourselves. Remember the catastrophe that was getting into the music player market? That was nothing compared to the massive fuckup of entering the phone market- while everyone mocked your efforts. You should have listened. And the tablet market? What were you thinking, Apple? What a disaster.

This time, I hope Apple listens to such visionaries and industry leaders as Samsung, who obviously know better, in order to avoid these past mistakes. I mean, how can Apple beat 10,000 R&D people? How can they hope to match Samsung's pristine picture quality? I for one am glad Samsung is being so generous as to offer this insightful advice, so Apple can avoid the inevitable train-wreck as their previous misguided efforts to enter industries they have no business entering, and to spare consumers their horrendous failure.
post #10 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

I am very happy with my current 65" HDTV and hopefully will be for many years to come. But I can say that picture quality was my #1 consideration when shopping. Next was the size of the screen and then price. Apple might have a great GUI for a TV, but considering they will probably price it at a premium, they better offer a damn good picture and sizes larger than 50".

The overall trend is towards less TV watching, especially with younger people. I think there are/will be less and less 'videophiles' that demand the best picture out there and more casual TV watchers who want an easy to use device with an affordable selection of on demand content- no more expensive cable plans- we don't watch TV enough to make that ever worth it. The content deals/integration will be key to this- not the biggest/best panel out there.

I'm still not convinced a stand alone TV is better than the current AppleTV option- hopefully they continue that with the same functionality the iTV will have.
post #11 of 161
Nothing that guy said that can really be argued with.
post #12 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...

"The ultimate is about picture quality and there is no way that anyone, new or old, can come along this year or next and beat us on picture quality," he said. "So, from that perspective, it's not a great concern, but it remains to be seen what they're going to come out with, if anything."

...

Yeah, so they can try to copy that, too, lol.
post #13 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

Samsung sounds scared. Why release a comment about a product they have not seen.

Because he was interviewed and asked?
post #14 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

I am very happy with my current 65" HDTV and hopefully will be for many years to come. But I can say that picture quality was my #1 consideration when shopping. Next was the size of the screen and then price. Apple might have a great GUI for a TV, but considering they will probably price it at a premium, they better offer a damn good picture and sizes larger than 50".

With my PS3 with Netflix, DirecTV DVR , and an application called Playback that streams all the content from my Mac Pro to my TV, I don't really feel like Apple could offer me anything close to the content I already have now. Nor do I feel the current set-up is particularly cumbersome or difficult to navigate or use. But I will wait and see what Apple comes out with before I pass final judgement. Regardless of how spectacular it may be, one thing is for sure most people won't replace a perfectly working set for an Apple branded one just because it is made by Apple. But then again recently made TV's don't tend to last that long compared to the old CRT sets that seemed to last forever.

You wouldn't fall into Apple's potential target market.

Do you realize how many people don't want to have to fiddle or learn how to work something? Why do you think iOS is so popular? It just works.
post #15 of 161
Who cares what samsung thinks... Next thing you know, they will be stealing ideas from Apple again.
post #16 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by KA47 View Post

Who cares what samsung thinks... Next thing you know, they will be stealing ideas from Apple again.

Clearly not Apple fanbois.
post #17 of 161
As long as Samsung keeps putting out these comments its only adding more fuel to the fire so Apple can make an even better TV set...keep them coming Sammy
post #18 of 161
I have a Samsung TV.
Out of the blue it started switching to 'stretch' SD mode every time I change channels. I have to hit a seemingly unrelated button on the remote to bounce the set each time I change.
You think maybe there's more to a great TV experience than just pixel density?
Maybe an interface that doesn't suck? You think Apple can't walk in and improve on the garbage Samsung has been coasting on for years?
post #19 of 161
What he says is pretty much true. Obviously a theoretical Apple TV would have an adequate-to-good display. But where they'll really compete is in interface and the "whole package".
post #20 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

I have a Samsung TV.
Out of the blue it started switching to 'stretch' SD mode every time I change channels. I have to hit a seemingly unrelated button on the remote to bounce the set each time I change.


Apple customers are the people who used to always have "12:00" blinking on their VCR. And Apple makes Billions. Smart.
post #21 of 161
That's a funny thing to say. Many Apple devices have Samsung panels. So Apple's TV won't be better, it will be identical, picture-quality wise. Then most likely superior otherwise.
post #22 of 161
Seems like my iPad and iPhone have nicer screens than their Samsung rivals, so I imagine that Apple could beat them if they wanted to. I'm still not convinced Apple would make a TV, embedding your device (which has a 2 year replacement cycle) into a television (which has a 10-15 year replacement cycle in most households) seems like a recipe for product failure. Apple's business is built on repeat customers who want to have the latest gear (iphone, ipads, ipods) but the television market is much slower. Apple may sell a television, but I would be surprised if its anything more than a hobby, much like the cinema displays (which clearly aren't blockbuster products)
post #23 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Apple customers are the people who used to always have "12:00" blinking on their VCR. And Apple makes Billions. Smart.

I don't expect that many Apple customers HAVE a VCR anymore.
post #24 of 161
All of the people watching Hulu on their desktops/laptops already proves that ultimate picture quality isn't their overriding consideration. Give them a widescreen that's pretty damn good but gives them the interactivity and content reach they want and they'll be happy campers.
post #25 of 161
"We've learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent [TV]," [Mosely] apparently laughed about with [] last Thursday morning. "PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in."

Remember when that Palm CEO made wisecracks like that?
http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/21/p...hs-off-iphone/

Yeah, we were all just watching that on our Palm Treos and Palm (what were the new ones called? LOL!)
post #26 of 161
While what this guy says wreaks of arrogance and shortsightedness on the big picture, he's also essentially correct. Apple doesn't make screens, and generally as of now Samsung makes the best TVs. I think it's more a shot across the bow at LG, Sharp and Sony than Apple directly.

Picture quality doesn't have to be everything but right now that's the largest factor along with cost for a new TV, and if Apple comes up with something that changes how we perceive the TV, that could easily make up for 'best' screen quality.
I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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post #27 of 161
Quite frankly, it's not about the tube (old school). It's about content, access to content and ease of use. Plenty of screens that look really good. And depending on how you tweak them, you can make it look wonderful. Honestly, how many pixels does it take to gain bragging rights? However, I was intrigued with the smart evolution concept.
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post #28 of 161
Really disappointing to hear a product manager say something as foolish as "picture quality is all that matters" given how this has been shown to be wrong time after time.

The move from CD to MP3 (having substantially lower bit rate) showed consumers choose convenience over quality when it comes to technology goods. People were happy with good enough sound quality if they could take more tunes with them.

The MP3 market itself was dominated by flash until Apple introduced retrograde technology (Hard Disks!) with the first iPod's. Again an example of "better" technology being trumped by the convenience of all your music in your pocket.

3d - being pushed by Samsung and others is a massive degradation of screen quality. You can't compare 3D and HD. If quality was so important then Samsung would not push 3D. Actually 3D sucks and shows how little innovation is happening in the TV set manufacturing game - using gimmicks instead of genuine game changers...


I like Samsung, have two of their sets. But if this is the best their product manager can come up with they are in serious danger of a disruptive event happening in their market. I have spent a couple of days out of my life teaching my parents how to use their TV (Samsung)/Satellite dish, DVD player combo. The whole user experience sucks and is getting MUCH worse with the advent of smart (complex) tv's and this is the fault of people like Chris Moseley who just don't get it.

Roll on apple and show these people how it's done. When my seventy something year old dad does not need to call me to put the sports channel on I'll know we are going in the right direction.
post #29 of 161
What a stupid comment, of course Apple won't beat Samsung, they'll be using Samsung's screens, tying them.
post #30 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


But Moseley at Samsung said he believes that television sets are "ultimately about picture quality." He said additional features, like "how smart they are" can be "great," but they're also a "secondary consideration."

[ View article on AppleInsider ][/URL]

Yes, that's right, "how smart they are..." [as in how one interfaces with a device] is a "secondary consideration", which is painfully apparent when one attempts to use pretty much any of the current "smart TV" UIs. It will of course remain secondary until Apple shows them how to do it right, as they did with the iPhone and iPad - or not

Of course picture quality matters, but what Sammy seems to totally miss the ball on is understanding the majority of the consumer market - ease of use coupled with quality trumps my screen is bigger than your screen every time.

If Apple has indeed "cracked it", then you'll see Sammy and all the others copying it and turn around and claim it was their idea the whole time and sue Apple for using glass on the television screen, Sammy bought that patent...
post #31 of 161
When you buy a Samsung TV or monitor?
When you can't afford any other, like a Panasonic plasma TV or a NEC monitor...
post #32 of 161
"Simplify the tv" LOL!

Are current TV's too difficult to use?
post #33 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshmaker View Post

That said, my 42" TV is about 5 years old. If they make a nice 55" that isn't break-the-bank expensive, I'll be in line with my wallet ready.

Name one Apple product that isn't "break the bank expensive" relative to its competition.
post #34 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naboozle View Post

10,000 people in vision R&D?

Well, maybe that is an advantage. But, Apple has done pretty well with smaller groups, and in some areas with just a single genius designer. We'll see.

If all a TV can do is display content (with some horrid internet functions grafted on), then picture quality is paramount.

If Apple does define an interface that adds real value, then a display that is "good enough" may not be such a handicap.

Yeah, I saw that 10,000 R&D personnel number and thought "What a management nightmare." For TVs? Maybe he meant employees involved in "D&D"?

When we were an external research site for Apple, I visited what as then the ATG. I was told by our champion I could go in without the usual security rigamarole as long as I promised not to exclaim too loudly when I saw some of what they were doing. It was sage advice. Pretty sure it was a lot less than 10,000 people. QuickTime came out of there. Which begat MPEG-4. Which Samsung is darned happy to have in every one of their video products. Just sayin'
post #35 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iandanger View Post

Seems like my iPad and iPhone have nicer screens than their Samsung rivals, so I imagine that Apple could beat them if they wanted to. I'm still not convinced Apple would make a TV, embedding your device (which has a 2 year replacement cycle) into a television (which has a 10-15 year replacement cycle in most households) seems like a recipe for product failure. Apple's business is built on repeat customers who want to have the latest gear (iphone, ipads, ipods) but the television market is much slower. Apple may sell a television, but I would be surprised if its anything more than a hobby, much like the cinema displays (which clearly aren't blockbuster products)

"Seems like my iPad and iPhone have nicer screens than their Samsung rivals,"

Yeah but they don't, that's the thing.
post #36 of 161
Another Steve ballmer ?
post #37 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshmaker View Post

No, not doomed, but I don't see them becoming the #1 TV manufacturer either.

Assuming the devices in question will still be called a 'TV'.
post #38 of 161
"3d - being pushed by Samsung and others is a massive degradation of screen quality. You can't compare 3D and HD. If quality was so important then Samsung would not push 3D. Actually 3D sucks and shows how little innovation is happening in the TV set manufacturing game - using gimmicks instead of genuine game changers..."

Except they're not. If you care to actually do some research you'll see that they're getting ready to launch Super OLED TV's and believe me, the picture quality will be impeccable.
post #39 of 161
The Samsung 8000 LCD series is a wonderful TV. Only Sony's XBR HX929 series comes close.

As for quality - a Bluray player hooked to either of those will be very hard to beat.

But since most of the people I know can't really tell the quality of a TV or the programming - a decent Apple monitor with a good panel and content that is better looking than 85% of the Netflix streaming titles quality will be more than enough for them.

Apple has a good shot at the mid-level TV market - but I don't think they're aiming for the top 1% of picture quality.

The Apple TV will liekly be better than Insignia/Sigmac or Vizios. Think mid range LGs.

But I bet Apple will make more money per device - and that's how they'll "win."

(I'd love a Samsung UN65C8000XF or a Sony XBR-65HX929.)
post #40 of 161
Not quite sure where Chris Moseley gets the impression Samsung TVs have the best picture quality. I have one of their plasma screens and it is good (I was willing to give up some picture quality for the convenience of having such a thin screen) but it is nowhere near as good as the benchmark Pioneer Kuros of a couple of years ago nor Panasonics recent VT series plasmas. I will give him that their upscalers are miles ahead of the competition, but for the best quality native HD pics, I wouldn't describe any of their sets as the best picture. And why is that at CES they were pushing their Smart TV concept much more than picture quality? Now if apple has managed to take a jump ahead and were about to launch an OLED screen, then I think samsung et al may have something to really worry about, as my Sony OLED at work is stunning. Putting that picture technology together with the sort of clever but simple interface apple are so good at, then I'd be tempted, very tempted.
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