or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Fair Labor Association says Foxconn's Apple iPad plant is 'first class'
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Fair Labor Association says Foxconn's Apple iPad plant is 'first class' - Page 2

post #41 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Recent reports from The New York Times and CNN highlighted potential labor issues in Apple's supply chain, with claims of forced overtime and low wages.

So when is the FLA going to visit some American factories? I just left a factory job after 15 years. Part of the reason was that we had to work "mandatory" overtime. A few of us didn't like all the hours and had been asking for 40 hour weeks (typically we were working 50-55) for years only to be given the runaround. The week I gave my notice we were told on a Monday that "starting today" we were required to work 12 hours/day for 5 days then the next week for 6 days. So, one week 60 hours, the next week 72 hours, repeat.

The thing is, it's nothing new. At that company 60 hour weeks were standard when I first started. Some people there have 40+ years of seniority and say that's all they remember.

How come "forced" OT is alright here but not there? All I can think is the Chinese workers are being made to work OT but not being properly compensated.

Does anyone know?
John
Reply
John
Reply
post #42 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Right. The jobs went to China. Problem solved.

If you read the latest on what is going on it looks like the Chinese government may just solve this problem for us. Not allowing importing or exporting of the iPad in China will go a long ways to fixing this.
post #43 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

The whole concept of a "Made in USA" campaign is flawed though. The base idea, (that it actually matters to the world economy or even to the local economies what country a thing is manufactured in), is deeply flawed.

It never ceases to amaze me how gung-ho super-capitalist the USA is *except* where it concerns the USA, when they immediately switch to the same protectionism they decry in other countries the other 90% of the time.

The movement of manufacturing jobs from older, Western developed economies to emergent economies in the rest of the world is both proper, efficient, and completely unavoidable. The failure is in the American Education system which produces bushels of dimwits only suitable for the kind of third world jobs that aren't available in North America anymore but who conversely require the wages of a much higher paying sector to live on.

The US job market and job seekers need to be smarter and better educated, not artificially propped up by government support so they can do slave labour work for CEO wages.

I agree with most of your points however I think for many Americans, including myself, it is not as much protectionism as it is pride in self sufficiency. I enjoyed building my own house with my own hands, restoring classic vehicles, etc. I would hate to see the US become a nation of ones and zeros incapable of building anything other than an app.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #44 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

If you read the latest on what is going on it looks like the Chinese government may just solve this problem for us. Not allowing importing or exporting of the iPad in China will go a long ways to fixing this.

Actually, I don't think that will fix anything.
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
post #45 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

So if I beat you with a wooden stick instead of a crowbar, you have no right to complain because of how much better you have it? Come on.

That's an intentionally overblown comparison.
How about:
If you feed me rice instead of letting me starve to death, do I have a right to complain because it's not a balance meal?

Yes, there are better diets, and moving toward a better diet would be a "good thing". But don't criticize the guy feeding me when my other option is to starve.

- Jasen.
post #46 of 117
A typical response is---That's a good start....but since they have $100 billion in the bank, they have the means and need to strive to do better.
You talkin' to me?
Reply
You talkin' to me?
Reply
post #47 of 117
Good for you Apple. It's nice to see a company that cares about fair trade. Maybe if Foxconn moved employees around every week to new places on the assembly line, they wouldn't get so bored.
post #48 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbit View Post

Good for you Apple. It's nice to see a company that cares about fair trade. Maybe if Foxconn moved employees around every week to new places on the assembly line, they wouldn't get so bored.

Factories like this will rotate them around and find something their good at. It's unlikely they care if their employees are bored since they are easily replaceable.
Andrew
Reply
Andrew
Reply
post #49 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbit View Post

Good for you Apple. It's nice to see a company that cares about fair trade. Maybe if Foxconn moved employees around every week to new places on the assembly line, they wouldn't get so bored.

Speaking of Timbits... I was watching the gal making breakfast sandwiches last week... somebody should let her change up every couple of hours. Wow... it would drive me nuts! Oh, wait...

One of my contractors was watching me do a job for him one day (forms creation on the computer). No more than a minute later he said he had to turn away. He said he could feel himself age as I worked.
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
post #50 of 117
The iHaters are going to hate hearing about this story. They were sure that iPads were being assembled in darkly lit, dusty rooms as the employees gasped for air. What sort of jackasses would think something like that. How could you possibly put out top-notch products with high quality control with those sort of conditions? Apple would at least be concerned about the product if not the assemblers. I swear, I worked in worse conditions in factories right in New York City and Long Island City with no air conditioning and toxic fumes in the summer and hardly any overtime. I'm not saying those Chinese employees don't deserve more, but that is definitely the life of any assembly line worker. Dull, tedious, mind-numbing part-after-part assembly. It's been claimed that women are perfect for that sort of job (I'm not saying it's true) It is definitely to be expected. Once you train an employee, you're not going to be switching them around to different tasks unless absolutely necessary. This is nothing new since the early Ford factory was churning out Model As or Ts or whatever. I can barely imagine how those Chinese workers felt when building the Great Wall, brick after g-damn brick.

But the iHaters gotta dick Apple for all employee abuse in China's factories. Good going, nincompoops.
post #51 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHateScreenNames View Post

So when is the FLA going to visit some American factories? I just left a factory job after 15 years. Part of the reason was that we had to work "mandatory" overtime. A few of us didn't like all the hours and had been asking for 40 hour weeks (typically we were working 50-55) for years only to be given the runaround. The week I gave my notice we were told on a Monday that "starting today" we were required to work 12 hours/day for 5 days then the next week for 6 days. So, one week 60 hours, the next week 72 hours, repeat.

The thing is, it's nothing new. At that company 60 hour weeks were standard when I first started. Some people there have 40+ years of seniority and say that's all they remember.

How come "forced" OT is alright here but not there? All I can think is the Chinese workers are being made to work OT but not being properly compensated.

Does anyone know?

Just make an emotionally manipulative radio play about it, spam the links on the internet, some blogs will pick it up, it will be retweeted on twitter and posted on facebook. Eventually bigger websites will pick it up, then media outlets such as CNN and NYT so they don't lose out on click rates. Apparently, we just found out a couple weeks ago that stuff is that actually made in China through such a radioplay, even though this has been the standard for the past few decades, and we were outraged. In a couple weeks it will be something new, some random new thing we need to be outraged out. I have a feeling sensationalism like 'slavery' etc won't fly as much over here, so it may be tougher to get the ball rolling.
post #52 of 117
Technology manufacturing plants are not Walmart plants, this is where people get confused and the media gets tons of attention poking at you.

In technology plants the parts and products are expensive and require the workers to have complete focus. I read somewhere that a rested factory employee has over 80% performance while an overworked employee has less than 30%. Foxconn knows this and they make sure their workers are rested, not because they're good guys, but because they need the performance and low error margins.

There are moments or periods of crunch time, just like the U.S. or any other country, where the employees have to put out, and that's where many of those alarmists gather their data. I too had to put 40 hrs straight here in the U.S. to meet a deadline, it happens, and it happens once every year or two.
bb
Reply
bb
Reply
post #53 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbit View Post

Maybe if Foxconn moved employees around every week to new places on the assembly line, they wouldn't get so bored.

What makes assembly lines efficient is that it is the same worker doing the same thing over and over again. After a while, you'd expect that they get the hang of it and they become good at doing their simple task, and moving them around seems like a very bad idea and production would suffer from it.

If they're "bored", then they should maybe use their vast imagination to become a little less bored. Foxconn's main priority is to pump out devices for Apple, not to accommodate any "bored" workers.
post #54 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


Apple should sue all of the ignoramuses for libel, slander and they should be investigated for their pathetic attempts at illegal stock manipulation.

I found it interesting that the stock has been shooting up so much recently while all of these anti-Apple articles have been coming out, and now that this positive news comes out, it falls off a cliff, losing more than $15/share in less than an hour.
post #55 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I heard Apple kills a a pug puppy for every iDevice made.

What do you think happens after every xBox 360 leaves the factory?

post #56 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Apparently, we just found out a couple weeks ago that stuff is that actually made in China through such a radioplay, even though this has been the standard for the past few decades, and we were outraged.

Most people didn't just find out about it. They felt like it was a problem they couldn't solve. Finally a bunch of people started making a huge fuss and it caused more and more people to join in. This is how movements start. It's awfully stupid they are targeting the company putting in the most effort in to fixing it. People are more or less saying that they are paying attention to this now and that companies should be on watch and not screw up.
Andrew
Reply
Andrew
Reply
post #57 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Apple should sue all of the ignoramuses for libel, slander and they should be investigated for their pathetic attempts at illegal stock manipulation.

I hope you realize Americans have the freedom of speech. This would severely hurt our rights. Do you even know what illegal stock manipulation constitutes?
Andrew
Reply
Andrew
Reply
post #58 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Apple was already doing the Right Thing.....

Love it! I'll use with the appropriate attribution!
post #59 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHateScreenNames View Post

So when is the FLA going to visit some American factories? I just left a factory job after 15 years. Part of the reason was that we had to work "mandatory" overtime. A few of us didn't like all the hours and had been asking for 40 hour weeks (typically we were working 50-55) for years only to be given the runaround. The week I gave my notice we were told on a Monday that "starting today" we were required to work 12 hours/day for 5 days then the next week for 6 days. So, one week 60 hours, the next week 72 hours, repeat.

The thing is, it's nothing new. At that company 60 hour weeks were standard when I first started. Some people there have 40+ years of seniority and say that's all they remember.

How come "forced" OT is alright here but not there? All I can think is the Chinese workers are being made to work OT but not being properly compensated.

Does anyone know?

I certainly don't know.

That's the problem with do-gooders. They want to cure all the problems around the world, but don't know diddly-squat about what's going on under their very own Pinocchio noses. It's like you say, if you don't like it, you leave. Not a perfect solution in a country where jobs are at a premium, though. If you complain about it, you're gonna get your ass fired or get the worst assignments possible. Factory work in America isn't that much better than work anywhere else in this world of money grubbers. I always say that the most expendable part in any factory is the worker. These do-gooders should realize that industrialized America was built on those very same principles. We just don't like to talk about it because it might soil our wonderful memories of the past. My dad worked in the Naval shipyards during WWII and he must have inhaled enough asbestos to line a few more steampipes. Just another day's work to earn some money to take care of the family. Nothing more.
post #60 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by focher View Post

Are you able to write a single post without all the hyperbole?

I believe that I've been able to write a few posts without any traces of hyperbole, but I do admit that it is difficult because I am a hyperbolic person.
post #61 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

That is their own fault, as Americans have the leadership which they voted for. Change indeed.

Again, you're starting something that could derail the thread.

The reasons for America's unemployment problem as complex, bipartisan, and a long time coming. Please stick to the topic.
post #62 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

I hope you realize Americans have the freedom of speech. This would severely hurt our rights. Do you even know what illegal stock manipulation constitutes?

Freedom of speech does not protect somebody from slander and libel. People can be sued for defamation and people are actually sued for that all of the time.
post #63 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

Factories like this will rotate them around and find something their good at. It's unlikely they care if their employees are bored since they are easily replaceable.

You're boring the cr4p out of me with the same old-same old. I would like to see you replaced.
post #64 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

....I am a hyperbolic person.

And in your passion you make it clear that you hate everything and everyone except yourself, Apple and most users of Apple products. It gets to be a little much, sometimes.
You talkin' to me?
Reply
You talkin' to me?
Reply
post #65 of 117
A bunch of people decided to jump on the bandwagon about something they know nothing about.

My company deals with Chinese factories every day. There are no shortage of jobs in China. Factory workers know they can go somewhere else for more money.

What is happening now is that these workers know their worth and want more and more money which is lowering our currency. If you want them to make more money and work in better conditions, then you will pay more for everything you buy. But no one wants to hear about that. We all want to work in peace and harmony and make a lot of money doing it.
post #66 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

And in your passion you make it clear that you hate everything and everyone except yourself, Apple and most users of Apple products. It gets to be a little much, sometimes.

Apple ][ is our crowbar.
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
post #67 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHateScreenNames View Post

So when is the FLA going to visit some American factories? I just left a factory job after 15 years. Part of the reason was that we had to work "mandatory" overtime. A few of us didn't like all the hours and had been asking for 40 hour weeks (typically we were working 50-55) for years only to be given the runaround. The week I gave my notice we were told on a Monday that "starting today" we were required to work 12 hours/day for 5 days then the next week for 6 days. So, one week 60 hours, the next week 72 hours, repeat.

The thing is, it's nothing new. At that company 60 hour weeks were standard when I first started. Some people there have 40+ years of seniority and say that's all they remember.

How come "forced" OT is alright here but not there? All I can think is the Chinese workers are being made to work OT but not being properly compensated.

Does anyone know?

The cost of having one worker work an average of 66 hours a week is, wages wise, the same as having two full time workers working 40 hrs a week. If you factor in benefits one worker on overtime is cheaper for the company. Basic math and basic explotation. As long as they pay you 1 1/2 they are legal. I'm surprised more companies don't do this.
post #68 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Freedom of speech does not protect somebody from slander and libel. People can be sued for defamation and people are actually sued for that all of the time.

And lawyers make more than $41 hr. because they are not bozos.
post #69 of 117
Couldn't they reduce the Apple tax by not pampering these foreign workers? Clearly Apple is doing more than they have to in order to pass the smell test of humane labor practices.
post #70 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by xSamplex View Post

Couldn't they reduce the Apple tax

There IS no Apple Tax. Hasn't been one since the beginning of the last decade.
post #71 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

There IS no Apple Tax. Hasn't been one since the beginning of the last decade.

The word "tax" needs to replaced with "resale value."

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply
post #72 of 117
This isn't the full report, just their initial impressions. They will be interviewing 35,000 workers over the next 3 weeks and issue their report in March.

The accusations were never of hectic working environments; they included excessive amounts of hours doing very mundane and repetitive work causing injuries and depression with low remuneration.

I don't doubt that the factories Apple uses will come head and shoulders above the 'norm' but that's not exactly a high standard to begin with. We'll find out what the report in March says about how the employees feel in absolute terms.
post #73 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

Most people didn't just find out about it. They felt like it was a problem they couldn't solve. Finally a bunch of people started making a huge fuss and it caused more and more people to join in. This is how movements start. It's awfully stupid they are targeting the company putting in the most effort in to fixing it. People are more or less saying that they are paying attention to this now and that companies should be on watch and not screw up.

No. This is not a movement, Foxconn doesn't gain anything by callously abusing workers. Many of the workers work overtime so they have more money to send back to families that live below poverty level. People are not saying anything of the sort, and yes it is awfully stupid of them - except that they want media time not actual solutions.

Let's review what Foxconn looks like:

Hon Hai dba Foxconn is in fact a multinational company and the world's largest maker/assembler of electronic components/original design manufacturer, maintaining 13 factories in China as well as factories in the Czech Republic, Slovakia, India, Mexico and Brazil. They manufacture roughly 40% of the world's consumer electronic products, they are the largest electronics manufacturer in the world, the largest exporter and the largest private employer in China. Foxconn is preferred by a number of companies due to the company's access to the extensive Chinese component supply chain as well as being centrally located to the large network of subcomponent supplies in the region. They employ nearly a million people world-wide.

The following companies are supplied by Foxconn (alphabetically):

Acer, Amazon, Apple, Cisco, Dell, Gateway, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Samsung, Sony, Sony/Ericsson, Toshiba and Vizio.

Foxconn is the source for many of the components and assembly of Android phones, feature phones for Nokia and Sony/Ericsson, networking devices for Cisco, computer components for Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, Acer, in addition to the Apple products lines. In fact the vast majority of the PC product market segment is assembled or manufactured by Foxconn, as well as the vast majority of feature phones for Nokia and Samsung - the two companies that are the majority market suppliers of feature phones.

So while I appreciate righteous indignation against any abuse of power/position/influence, you are obviously poorly informed as to the real impact Foxconn has FAR BEYOND Apple products. Dell and HP together manufacture the vast majority of the world's PCs as compared to the relatively small marketshare that Apple has.
If you are going to insist on being an ass, at least demonstrate the intelligence to be a smart one
Reply
If you are going to insist on being an ass, at least demonstrate the intelligence to be a smart one
Reply
post #74 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Freedom of speech does not protect somebody from slander and libel. People can be sued for defamation and people are actually sued for that all of the time.

It has to cause significant harm to the recipient and you have to prove it in court using hard evidence that directly links these two things. It's a long shot.
Andrew
Reply
Andrew
Reply
post #75 of 117
All right this discussion has gone on long enough. All sides spout empty rhetoric. No one here is willing to sacrifice anything to fix this or any problem regardless of it being in China or the U.S. Everyone wants some other group of people to make the sacrifice. The Tea Party wants it to be all the people who receive entitlements, the Occupy movement wants it to be the 1%. The Republicans want it to be the Democrats and vice versa. Congress wants it to be the non lobbyists. I could go on and on. The point is no one wants to be the one making the sacrifice. Basic human nature. We still function too much of the time using the primitive part of our brain. We can't help it. So if you really give a damn about anyone at Foxconn then never buy another product made in China. If you give a damn about the guy here that just quit his job because he no longer wanted to be forced to work 66 hours a week, than never buy a product made by his former employer or give him a job that allows him to work 40 hrs. If not than shut the hell up. \
post #76 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

There IS no Apple Tax. Hasn't been one since the beginning of the last decade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

The word "tax" needs to replaced with "resale value."

Get a sense of humor guys.... I think you may have missed the sarcasm of his post.
post #77 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Get a sense of humor guys.... I think you may have missed the sarcasm of his post.

I was trying to be humorous.

edit: I guess the word "trying" needs to replaced with "failing."

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply
post #78 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Foxconn did have time to prepare. It wasn't exactly a surprise inspection.

yea but they interviewed about 100 or more employees about the working conditions their ..and i'm sure Foxxcon didnt pay all of them to talk nice
post #79 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

So if you really give a damn about anyone at Foxconn then never buy another product made in China.

Actually, quite the opposite. Buy as many Foxconn manufactured devices as you can so the line workers can send more money home to their families, and so that more people living at near starvation or working in the even worse conditions can move into the better conditions at Foxconn, and so that the Foxconn employees have more value to their employer so they can negotiate for better working conditions.

- Jasen.
post #80 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Or perhaps it was the large cash payments that "pushed a few workers over the edge".

I think that is a huge factor. Most come from impoverished rural villages and it's huge social & enviromental change for them. They become homesick and lonely, trapped in a totally different world. I think a significant problem is that they feel like they can't quit and lose a place to live, food to eat, money they save for education or send home to family. And worry that they would be shamed and disgraced and letdown to their family. Suicide was viable option- escape unhappiness and provide nice financial sum to family. Curtailing payments removes the incentive. And since then, the number of suicides have plummeted.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Fair Labor Association says Foxconn's Apple iPad plant is 'first class'