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Fair Labor Association says Foxconn's Apple iPad plant is 'first class' - Page 3

post #81 of 117
These claims have always been rubbish.

Isn't Foxconn the same place that Santa uses?
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post #82 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turley Muller View Post

I think that is a huge factor. Most come from impoverished rural villages and it's huge social & enviromental change for them. They become homesick and lonely, trapped in a totally different world. I think a significant problem is that they feel like they can't quit and lose a place to live, food to eat, money they save for education or send home to family. And worry that they would be shamed and disgraced and letdown to their family. Suicide was viable option- escape unhappiness and provide nice financial sum to family. Curtailing payments removes the incentive. And since then, the number of suicides have plummeted.

If you came from a backwater village and found out your family could be taken care of for the rest of their lives if you killed yourself, that is a powerful incentive to leap off a building.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #83 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I don't believe what independent factory audits say. I only believe what shadowy nameless accusers say to the NYT. Because nobody believes what they hear; they hear what they believe.

who are you going to believe? Me, or your lying eyes*

*Do not try this on your wife.
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post #84 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

No. This is not a movement, Foxconn doesn't gain anything by callously abusing workers. Many of the workers work overtime so they have more money to send back to families that live below poverty level. People are not saying anything of the sort, and yes it is awfully stupid of them - except that they want media time not actual solutions.

Let's review what Foxconn looks like:

Hon Hai dba Foxconn is in fact a multinational company and the world's largest maker/assembler of electronic components/original design manufacturer, maintaining 13 factories in China as well as factories in the Czech Republic, Slovakia, India, Mexico and Brazil. They manufacture roughly 40% of the world's consumer electronic products, they are the largest electronics manufacturer in the world, the largest exporter and the largest private employer in China. Foxconn is preferred by a number of companies due to the company's access to the extensive Chinese component supply chain as well as being centrally located to the large network of subcomponent supplies in the region. They employ nearly a million people world-wide.

The following companies are supplied by Foxconn (alphabetically):

Acer, Amazon, Apple, Cisco, Dell, Gateway, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Samsung, Sony, Sony/Ericsson, Toshiba and Vizio.

Foxconn is the source for many of the components and assembly of Android phones, feature phones for Nokia and Sony/Ericsson, networking devices for Cisco, computer components for Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, Acer, in addition to the Apple products lines. In fact the vast majority of the PC product market segment is assembled or manufactured by Foxconn, as well as the vast majority of feature phones for Nokia and Samsung - the two companies that are the majority market suppliers of feature phones.

So while I appreciate righteous indignation against any abuse of power/position/influence, you are obviously poorly informed as to the real impact Foxconn has FAR BEYOND Apple products. Dell and HP together manufacture the vast majority of the world's PCs as compared to the relatively small marketshare that Apple has.

What's amazing is that in all the millions of words and thousands of posts, articles, etc Ive read in the past few weeks, yours is the first that puts Foxconn into context. If I didn't know any better from everything I've read, I'd have the impression that Apple has Foxconn by the balls, can dictate their behaviour, employee wages, operations, etc, and have infinite leverage over Foxconn, because it is a tiny company who would go bankrupt if it did not have Apple's business. Oh, and that Apple can just get up and move suppliers. This is the quality of reporting that we get.
post #85 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Foxconn did have time to prepare. It wasn't exactly a surprise inspection.

How does this help?

Pegatron now knows something is in the wind and can prepare accordingly, thanks to the media.

So now the excuse from the haters will be "but they had time to prepare, these aren't the 'real' conditions", as their Chinese made underwear rides up their buttcracks.
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post #86 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

How does this help?

Pegatron now knows something is in the wind and can prepare accordingly, thanks to the media.

So now the excuse from the haters will be "but they had time to prepare, these aren't the 'real' conditions", as their Chinese made underwear rides up their buttcracks.

It will be an irrelevant cry if it does occur.

The FLA has the ability to inspect irregularly and without warning.

Now, I'd like to talk to the leaders of these petition groups regarding the unethical behavior of printing their petition on a material responsible for killing of millions of trees on this planet, all the while delivering it to a company that embraces 'the paperless environment'.

Say hello to my little frond.
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post #87 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

It will be an irrelevant cry if it does occur.

The FLA has the ability to inspect irregularly and without warning.

Now, I'd like to talk to the leaders of these petition groups regarding the unethical behavior of printing their petition on a material responsible for killing Of millions of trees on this planet, all the while delivering it to a company that embraces 'the paperless environment'.

Say hello to my little frond.

You forgot about the people who made the paper, the printers and the ink in Chinese factories.
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post #88 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

You forgot about the people who made the paper, the printers and the ink in Chinese factories.

I did too.

Oh, the humanity!
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post #89 of 117
I love how you Jobs-knob-gobblers are so quick to believe the findings of a monitoring organization that was created/funded by the companies that are being "monitored".

Fucking pathetic idiots.
post #90 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Right... Because having American jobs is a commie plot. Gotcha.

He's probably complaining about being overpaid for his job when an Indian could do it for half the price.
post #91 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

The iHaters are going to hate hearing about this story. They were sure that iPads were being assembled in darkly lit, dusty rooms as the employees gasped for air. What sort of jackasses would think something like that.




There are no jackasses who think that. You are being unkind to jackasses.

Instead, it is the straw men who think that. And you beat them soundly.
post #92 of 117
I'd like to point out samwell's first post on AI. It's about Tim Cook as CEO...
Quote:
This is great news.

Hopefully this will encourage other young men to become gay.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #93 of 117
john

does any one really care the truth? all they wanted is to make a sound bite. the bite left a mark and regardless how hard one can try to reclaim its name, the only thing left on ppl's mind is the first bite.

general public are dumb, really dumb audience. but it is not their fault. it is general public communication mystics. yes, some of us would ask and try to find out a reason out of the first report, but unfortunately, most don't and don't even care about the following events. so the misconception is done and the accused is guilty without trail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHateScreenNames View Post

So when is the FLA going to visit some American factories? I just left a factory job after 15 years. Part of the reason was that we had to work "mandatory" overtime. A few of us didn't like all the hours and had been asking for 40 hour weeks (typically we were working 50-55) for years only to be given the runaround. The week I gave my notice we were told on a Monday that "starting today" we were required to work 12 hours/day for 5 days then the next week for 6 days. So, one week 60 hours, the next week 72 hours, repeat.

The thing is, it's nothing new. At that company 60 hour weeks were standard when I first started. Some people there have 40+ years of seniority and say that's all they remember.

How come "forced" OT is alright here but not there? All I can think is the Chinese workers are being made to work OT but not being properly compensated.

Does anyone know?
post #94 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwell View Post

I love how you Jobs-knob-gobblers are so quick to believe the findings of a monitoring organization that was created/funded by the companies that are being "monitored".

Fucking pathetic idiots.

Hi there Sam

hope this finds you well

Why don't you tell us about the conditions in the factories THAT HAVE NO MONITORING AT ALL and which no doubt are the source of many of the things that are around you now.

Your fucking, pathetic idiotic POST may get you banned, play the ball, not the man.
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post #95 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Hi there Sam

hope this finds you well

Why don't you tell us about the conditions in the factories THAT HAVE NO MONITORING AT ALL and which no doubt are the source of many of the things that are around you now.

Your fucking, pathetic idiotic POST may get you banned, play the ball, not the man.

There's a reason why he was the first person on my ignore list.
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post #96 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

So if I beat you with a wooden stick instead of a crowbar, you have no right to complain because of how much better you have it? Come on.

Absolutely preposterous analogy. As much as you don't want to accept it, the conditions in these factories are much much better than millions of people living in rural China. Try going out to provinces like Yinchuan, as I have, seeing people eking out living on a 20m wide patch of green beside a river winding through an arid wasteland. China itself doesn't want to be judged on western standards, so why are people expecting Apple to be able to create western living/working conditions in the PRC?
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post #97 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrubhar View Post

Really? The KKK?

Don't mind Apple ][, he seems to have gone off the deep end over this.

Quote:
I have said Apple is doing better than other companies. This is confirming that and it's great to hear. Continued improvement will keep Foxconn on the right track. There is still a lot to do.

I'd like to see some pressure on Apple's competitors to catch up on this issue.
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post #98 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwell View Post

I love how you Jobs-knob-gobblers are so quick to believe the findings of a monitoring organization that was created/funded by the companies that are being "monitored".

Fucking pathetic idiots.

Being 89 posts deep into a thread vilifying Apple, on a website dedicated to Apple, just demonstrated exactly what 'pathetic' is.

Maybe this news is more to your liking:

If you take a child's crayon (go ask your mum for yours) and draw a vertical line exactly halfway down the head of the robot that is the Android logo, it makes it look like a penis.

Appropriate, don't you think?

And now you also know why Google's design department made the logo so short.

(Remember to wash your ear next time you finish using your phone!)
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post #99 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"way, way above the average of the norm,"

Even leaving the bizarre redundant phrasing aside, how are we to know that this isn't the equivalent of reviewing a better-than-average Nazi death camp?

Human rights are not a relative issue. "Unacceptable" doesn't become acceptable just because the norm is "intolerable." I don't want to support a company whose factory is merely less soul destroying and deadly than the one next door.

The notion that justice occurs on some relative scale is as wrong as it is sickening. Such insanity is generally the result of well fed, well dressed, people possessed of an overweening sense of superiority and entitlement sitting around a $25K conference table blithely rationalizing how many mentally ill, physically crippled people living in misery is acceptable when maintaining the bottom line. "We're not destroying as many lives as our competitors" is an appalling argument no decent person could entertain without weeping and retching.

If that is indeed what's happening here, for a company with a $100B cash surplus to claim that the working conditions it creates are acceptable because they're less awful than those of some other company is nothing less than obscene. The real bottom line is that if you wouldn't want your own son or daughter working in an environment, it's wrong to ask anyone else's to do so.
post #100 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

I'm a lefty of the pragmatic variety who grew up in the 3rd world and I would say to all those (ignorant but well-meaning) people who complained about "horrible, inhuman" working conditions at Foxconn: You should wish that all factories in the 3rd world were run like Foxconn's Apple operations.

No, you absolutely should not. Just because you are alright with being treated like a rat doesn't mean the rest of the world should take it as a matter of course. You bring shame on your family!

http://flawatch.usas.org/about/

FLA is a PR agency for Nike, Reebok, et al. Naturally it will find nothing but unicorns and laughing pixies drinking champagne in the sun.

Fools, the lot of you.
post #101 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

No, you absolutely should not. Just because you are alright with being treated like a rat doesn't mean the rest of the world should take it as a matter of course. You bring shame on your family!

Typed from the comfort of your comfortable office/home. "Treated like a rat"? Get your hand off it.
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post #102 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

Typed from the comfort of your comfortable office/home. "Treated like a rat"? Get your hand off it.

I may have been in a café, sipping a Perrier and espresso and writing from my Macbook Air, perhaps.

If you saw someone beating a child would you crouch next to the little victim and beg to be abused also, or would you vocalize your discontent in whatever manner was available to you? It is interesting how the "pragmatists" that contend that cruelty to humans is a necessary result of all the bogus shit that we hoist on the world from our privileged, militarily insulted, meaningless little lives, also think the ONLY possible outlet for objection to cruelty is to seek it out for oneself, as if that would be strategic or alleviating in any conceivable way. If it makes you feel better, convince yourself that it is "the only alternative," but I assure you if the "thinking and feeling" component of our ragged excuse for a "civilization" were calling the shots, rather than racist hicks and homophobes, something WOULD be done.

It is a shame that the hicks and racists are, after all, a fairly good representation of the people that elect them; the supposition not least of all supported by anecdotal experiences reading these forums.
post #103 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

I may have been in a café, sipping a Perrier and espresso and writing from my Macbook Air, perhaps.

If you saw someone beating a child would you crouch next to the little victim and beg to be abused also, or would you vocalize your discontent in whatever manner was available to you? It is interesting how the "pragmatists" that contend that cruelty to humans is a necessary result of all the bogus shit that we hoist on the world from our privileged, militarily insulted, meaningless little lives, also think the ONLY possible outlet for objection to cruelty is to seek it out for oneself, as if that would be strategic or alleviating in any conceivable way. If it makes you feel better, convince yourself that it is "the only alternative," but I assure you if the "thinking and feeling" component of our ragged excuse for a "civilization" were calling the shots, rather than racist hicks and homophobes, something WOULD be done.

It is a shame that the hicks and racists are, after all, a fairly good representation of the people that elect them; the supposition not least of all supported by anecdotal experiences reading these forums.

What a load of bunk. Along with your "treated like rats" comment. Clueless.
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post #104 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

It is a shame that the hicks and racists are, after all, a fairly good representation of the people that elect them; the supposition not least of all supported by anecdotal experiences reading these forums.

You've got a good point there, Dean... I was thinking the same thing as I read your post... but I doubt that you are a racist.
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post #105 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

What a load of bunk. Along with your "treated like rats" comment. Clueless.

What isn't "bunk" is that the FLA receives its funding from the very companies that it is allegedly "auditing," and it's track record is exactly what you would expect it to be.

Gosh, maybe the libertarians are wrong; maybe all corporations don't have a heart of gold! (No! That couldn't be! Everyone knows corporations are in it for the love, right kids?)

I'd mentioned this country (and the greater West, besides) is sufficiently militarily insulated, but I suppose I should also observe, if only parenthetically, that there is no discernible lack of intellectual insulation, either.

But as you will, patriots!
post #106 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

<snipped a whole load more of bunk>

Patriots? What are you smoking? More bunk and hyperbolic waffle.

Have you ever lived in China, perchance? Have you ever seen the third world conditions that millions upon millions of Chinese in the less developed areas of the country live under? If you had, you might realise that yes, whilst not perfect, living and working in these factory communes is a big step up for them. But I daresay your point of view is limited to the bunk you read at Change.org and SumOfUs.org.

Why are you not taking the Chinese themselves to task for treating their own people "like rats"? The fortunate few are profiting just as handsomely as Apple are, and they are the ones who can actually bring about serious change, rather than the small steps an outsider like Apple can take. How about the other western and asian companies (Microsoft, HP, Samsung, Nintendo etc etc etc) that exploit Chinese workers? I hope that you are on other websites condemning them as well.

In any case, I'll take the word of the auditor over yours.

Quote:
Van Heerden dismissed the notion that his organisation might paint a cursory and positive picture of Apple's suppliers.

Companies that join the FLA abide by rigorous commitments, and their interests are balanced by non-governmental organisations and more than 200 universities that sit on the board of the organisation with the corporations, he said.

FLA evolved from a group originally convened by US President Bill Clinton in 1996 with the goal of reducing sweatshop labour around the world. Its board includes executives from sneaker companies Nike and Adidas.

"Apple didn't need to join the FLA," he said. "The FLA system is very tough. It involves unannounced visits, complete access, public reporting.

"If Apple wanted to take the easy way out there were a whole host of options available to them," he added. "The fact that they joined the FLA shows they were really serious about raising their game."

http://www.theage.com.au/technology/...216-1ta64.html
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post #107 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

In any case, I'll take the word of the auditor over yours.

Yes, the word of the man that is paid quite handsomely for his, what's that, "impartiality?" A thinking man would tell you that he wouldn't have found malfeasance in Auschwitz, under those circumstances.

To imagine that, sans American economic interests, China would be forcing it's population into factories to make.... nothing... is an untenable hypothesis.
post #108 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwell View Post

I love how you Jobs-knob-gobblers are so quick to believe the findings of a monitoring organization that was created/funded by the companies that are being "monitored".

Fucking pathetic idiots.

How the fuck is this kind of post not bannable? Seriously. Jobs-knob-gobblers? Really? I thought that shit would end when the guy died of cancer, but I guess to people like you filled with such vicious hate that little fact is irrelevant. How classy of you. Maybe you should direct your ire toward Jobs' replacement? Oh wait, that wouldn't jive so well with the 'altar/cult of jobs' shit you need to peddle.

Do you have evidence that the FLA is lying? Or that they're being payed off by Apple to say certain things? If so, I'd love to see it. If not, then shut the fuck up. It's clear your entire motivation for posting is fuled by your hatred of Apple, so naturally you will dismiss and spit on any positive action they make. Maybe instead of mindlessly bashing these audits, you can enlighten us on what all the other tech companies are doing about this? Oh right, they're doing fuck-all, and deal with suppliers with worse conditions, so they all get a pass. Go gobble your own nuts, you clearly seem to have an urge to do so.
post #109 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

Yes, the word of the man that is paid quite handsomely for his, what's that, "impartiality?" A thinking man would tell you that he wouldn't have found malfeasance in Auschwitz, under those circumstances.

To imagine that, sans American economic interests, China would be forcing it's population into factories to make.... nothing... is an untenable hypothesis.

I'll take that guy's credentials and integrity over yours any day. And keep on comparing these companies to Auschwitz and Nazi Death Camps, it really helps the argument you're trying to make- oh right, you're not even making one. Just unsubstantiated, sensationalist bullshit, slander, and accusation, which is not hard to do anonymously on an internet forum. You're no 'thinking man' as much as you'd like to believe you are.

And you're right, if China wasn't 'forcing it's population into factories', (and by forcing, I assume you mean the population lining up in the thousands to apply) these people who are working there would obviously be swimming in rivers of money and be in fantastical financial condition. Or, back here on planet earth, they'd probably be starving to death in the jobless shit-hole villages they live in and in much worse condition. But hey, carry on with your nonsensical, insanely ignorant bullshit.
post #110 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

I'll take that guy's credentials and integrity over yours any day. And keep on comparing these companies to Auschwitz and Nazi Death Camps, it really helps the argument you're trying to make- oh right, you're not even making one. Just unsubstantiated, sensationalist bullshit, slander, and accusation, which is not hard to do anonymously on an internet forum. You're no 'thinking man' as much as you'd like to believe you are.

And you're right, if China wasn't 'forcing it's population into factories', (and by forcing, I assume you mean the population lining up in the thousands to apply) these people who are working there would obviously be swimming in rivers of money and be in fantastical financial condition. Or, back here on planet earth, they'd probably be starving to death in the jobless shit-hole villages they live in and in much worse condition. But hey, carry on with your nonsensical, insanely ignorant bullshit.

A) I didn't compare any company to Auschwitz, but simply accentuated the very obvious conflict of interest. How long will it be before Apple has a board member at FLA... you know, like Nike and Reebok?

B) My name is Dean Solecki, I am not at all anonymous. I am, in fact, precisely the opposite of anonymous.

C) I didn't say China was forcing anyone to do anything, but rather pointing out that IF NOT for American economic interests it is highly unlikely that they would be forcing their population to work in factories producing... nothing. Thus, the argument isn't that they are being forced, but that they wouldn't be in factories at all.

D) Not sure how your tone is any more dignified than the OP you mention above.
post #111 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

FLA is a PR agency for Nike, Reebok, et al. Naturally it will find nothing but unicorns and laughing pixies drinking champagne in the sun. Fools, the lot of you.

The flip side of this is that "FLA Watch" seems to be a three page blog on a web site run by "United Students Against Sweatshops." Whose main complaint seems to be that FLA doesn't wholeheartedly endorse something the students cooked up called the Designated Suppliers Program.

I'd like to find out more, but the links to pages about the DSP and the FLA's alleged "attacks" on it are broken.

In short, I don't find the source you're using to discredit the FLA to be credible.
post #112 of 117
Then today it's reported that the quoted original comment of Apple's Foxconn facilities being first class wasn't entirely accurate.

"The Fair Labor Association, a watchdog monitoring working conditions at makers of Apple Inc. products, has uncovered tons of issues that need to be addressed at a Foxconn Technology Group plant in Shenzhen, China, FLA Chief Executive Officer Auret van Heerden said.
Van Heerden made the comments in a telephone interview after a multiday inspection of the factory. Apple, the first technology company to join the FLA, said on Feb. 13 that it asked the Washington-based nonprofit organization to inspect plants owned by three of its largest manufacturing partners.
Were finding tons of issues, van Heerden said en route to a meeting where FLA inspectors were scheduled to present preliminary findings to Foxconn management. I believe were going to see some very significant announcements in the near future.

9to5Mac's article concerning the inaccurate article posted here at AI from a couple days ago is here. It's not AI's fault. Several reports had it wrong.:
http://9to5mac.com/2012/02/17/bloomb...pplier-plants/
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post #113 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

"Apple, the first technology company to join the FLA"

Based on the "reporting" it sounded like Apple was not only the last company to care abut fair labor, but was also slaughtered a child for every iPhone made.

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post #114 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Then today it's reported that the quoted original comment of Apple's Foxconn facilities being first class wasn't entirely accurate.

"The Fair Labor Association, a watchdog monitoring working conditions at makers of Apple Inc. products, has uncovered tons of issues that need to be addressed at a Foxconn Technology Group plant in Shenzhen, China, FLA Chief Executive Officer Auret van Heerden said.
Van Heerden made the comments in a telephone interview after a multiday inspection of the factory. Apple, the first technology company to join the FLA, said on Feb. 13 that it asked the Washington-based nonprofit organization to inspect plants owned by three of its largest manufacturing partners.
Were finding tons of issues, van Heerden said en route to a meeting where FLA inspectors were scheduled to present preliminary findings to Foxconn management. I believe were going to see some very significant announcements in the near future.

9to5Mac's article concerning the inaccurate article posted here at AI from a couple days ago is here. It's not AI's fault. Several reports had it wrong.:
http://9to5mac.com/2012/02/17/bloomb...pplier-plants/

... but apparently, according to some people in this thread, the FLA has absolutely no legitimacy... so I'm wondering if there really are any issues. I mean, after all, you can't trust the FLA.
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post #115 of 117
Any and all problems at 'Apple's Foxconn plant' (why is it suddenly just Apple's?) will be resolved shortly:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknap...n-three-years/

I assume we'll be getting updates in the future on how you and many others will be assisting the freshly unemployed?

I mean...since you all care so much?
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post #116 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Any and all problems at 'Apple's Foxconn plant' (why is it suddenly just Apple's?) will be resolved shortly:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknap...n-three-years/

I assume we'll be getting updates in the future on how you and many others will be assisting the freshly employed?

I mean...since you all care so much?

That's the irony of all this short-sighted bellyaching. If the cost to retain employees gets too high it will be cheaper to automate the system. Then what happens to these million employees?

I guess they'd be let free from their shackles and allowed to go back to the mansions... if any of that were true. Instead you have a lot of uneducated and poor with less of a chance to may a way for themselves.

There used to be so-called "freak shows" throughout the US. Then someone got it in their mind that it was wrong to exploit these people's unique physical conditions so they were eventually shut down. Unfortunately for the employees it meant they no longer had a way to make a decent living anymore as entertainers. Of course, if you don't see a human as a human that's a not healthy for society but on an individual level these people ended up suffering by and large. I wonder how they felt about it.

Do these Foxconn employees really want to get paid 10z more? Sure. But what if that meant a few months later they are sent packing because a robot is a better investment? Would they still be happy with that wage increase? I'm thinking not likely.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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Originally Posted by buy bystolic online View Post

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Grate Engrish!
There's nothing your wife/girlfriend/partner wouldn't like more than a 6 Plus...
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There's nothing your wife/girlfriend/partner wouldn't like more than a 6 Plus...
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