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Hong Kong court sided with Apple in iPad trademark dispute with Proview - Page 2

post #41 of 51
2/16/12 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwal View Post

Unfortunately as one hedge fund manager said at a recent dinner speech in New York, the low-skilled American worker is the most overpaid worker in the world. $16/hr in the US vs <$1/hr elsewhere.

I guess this is why there are millions of low-skilled workers in the US who work at the minimum wage. They'd love to make $16/Hr. but are happy to have a job. That hedge fund manager is living in his own generalities and stereotypes with his unfortunate comments. Workers at Foxconn are not making under a dollar(US) an hour. Low-skilled Chinese workers at Foxconn are doing much better than the average Chinese worker. Reality is quite different.
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post #42 of 51
2/16/12 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamh View Post

With trademark issue, it doesn't matter where the iPads are made. China is a huge market for Apple, and the trademark dispute would arise even if the iPads were made in the US (which is preposterous). So long as we pay people to not work, they will never accept work like assembling iPads.

China is a big market for Apple but Apple is a big part of China's economic growth. The trademark issue is small potatoes in comparison and IMO ProView's extortion will not work in their favor. Why do you think making iPads in the US is preposterous? We don't pay people not to work the US. That's a political fantasy. It's not as easy to get welfare or disability payments as you may think, and when one does, it's not much money to live on. IMO most people who can work in the US would rather make iPads on a assembly line than go on welfare.
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post #43 of 51
2/16/12 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

China is a big market for Apple but Apple is a big part of China's economic growth. . . . We don't pay people not to work the US. That's a political fantasy. It's not as easy to get welfare or disability payments as you may think, and when one does, it's not much money to live on. IMO most people who can work in the US would rather make iPads on a assembly line than go on welfare.

And, a fantasy perpetrated by the top 1% and the politicians they purchase.

It is not just a humble opinion, ljocampo. It is fact. The nature of human beings is to be productive and when there are opportunities, the most productive times abound. Look at the thirty years just after WWII, the most productive times in history. Those times can come again but not when 1% owns a nation, its politicians and its discussion.

Good to see a thinking mind, ljocampo.

Heard a discussion of a young man writing an economics paper on the hierarchy of drug deals (NY city). He found that their pyramid structure followed that of any wealthy business: pay as little as possible to the street pedlars and pocket the wealth at the top*. The student who wrote the paper constantly had the low paid street (drug) pedlars asking him if he had any ins to janitor jobs at the university. Heart breaking story.

If there is honest work with an honest living wage, the vast majority of people will take it in preference to illicit occupations and definitely in preference to meagre handouts.

* and guess who most often gets caught and jailed.
Know History; Not just your Folklore
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Know History; Not just your Folklore
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post #44 of 51
2/16/12 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Does anybody know if the relevant documents were in English? Lots of peopel are riffing on the word "global", including the news sources. But was the contract in english or mandarin?

Take a look of the docs here: http://allthingsd.com/20120216/take-...D_yahoo_ticker
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post #45 of 51
2/16/12 at 5:20pm
Apple bought the Taiwan iPad trademark so if they want to use the name in China have to pay for it, why are you taking Apples side on face value, the Chinese company come up with name first so even if they are gold diggers thats the way these IT companies operate, applaud the guys who knew Apple was buying their brand name and intentionally withheld the Chinese part of the deal for the rainy day payments.
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post #46 of 51
2/16/12 at 8:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

And, a fantasy perpetrated by the top 1% and the politicians they purchase.

It is not just a humble opinion, ljocampo. It is fact. The nature of human beings is to be productive and when there are opportunities, the most productive times abound. Look at the thirty years just after WWII, the most productive times in history. Those times can come again but not when 1% owns a nation, its politicians and its discussion.

Good to see a thinking mind, ljocampo.

Heard a discussion of a young man writing an economics paper on the hierarchy of drug deals (NY city). He found that their pyramid structure followed that of any wealthy business: pay as little as possible to the street pedlars and pocket the wealth at the top*. The student who wrote the paper constantly had the low paid street (drug) pedlars asking him if he had any ins to janitor jobs at the university. Heart breaking story.

If there is honest work with an honest living wage, the vast majority of people will take it in preference to illicit occupations and definitely in preference to meagre handouts.

* and guess who most often gets caught and jailed.

I wouldn't blame the 1% for the lack of upward mobility or the poor state of this economy. The productivity that followed WWII (baby boomers) was created by the 1% of that era. There will always be a 1% and it will be that class that brings American prosperity or more precisely put; capitalism. The Founding Fathers wanted freedom but freedom to make profit was top on their list. It's the real meaning of "the pursuit of happiness." When I was a young idealistic democrat, I believed that the rich should pay more. Today, much older a lot smarter, I realize that they actually do pay more individually. And even if some individuals and mostly huge corporations don't pay what we the 99% think they should, it's surely not their fault. They aren't braking any laws. I wouldn't pay a cent more in taxes than I had too either. If we push the 1% in this country too hard we are the ones who'll lose. They have enough money to sit out of the money game for several lifetimes.

I guess the moral here is repair the tax code, have reasonable regulation and energy policy, allow the economy to grow, and never bite the hand that feeds you!
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post #47 of 51
2/17/12 at 1:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sayid View Post

Apple bought the Taiwan iPad trademark so if they want to use the name in China have to pay for it, why are you taking Apples side on face value, the Chinese company come up with name first so even if they are gold diggers thats the way these IT companies operate, applaud the guys who knew Apple was buying their brand name and intentionally withheld the Chinese part of the deal for the rainy day payments.

Don't tell me Mr. Yang Long send you to this forum to create confusion with your misleading information. Please have a good read this verdict from HK court regarding this case: http://www.hklii.hk/cgi-bin/sinodisp...2011/1375.html

So the fact is, Mr.Yang is legal representative, GM, Chairman and CEO of all 4 entities evolved here. When IP Application try to buy the IPAD name, Mr.Yang represented all 3 entities (Proview Holdings, Proview Electronics and Proview Shenzhen) to make deal with IP Application, and he agreed to sell the IPAD name to IP Application.

After get payment from IP Application, Mr.Yang sold this trade mark again to Yoke Technology which also owned by him.

Now Mr.Yang appear again in media, accusing Apple to steal that trade mark from him and ask for 1.5 bil compensation.

I don't know what do you think about all this. But I myself find it very interesting the way they do business in China. This can be a case study all universities in China need to add to their lectures to teach Chinese students how to make 1.5 bil with just a name.
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post #48 of 51
2/18/12 at 6:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by quac View Post

Don't tell me Mr. Yang Long send you to this forum to create confusion with your misleading information. Please have a good read this verdict from HK court regarding this case: http://www.hklii.hk/cgi-bin/sinodisp...2011/1375.html

So the fact is, Mr.Yang is legal representative, GM, Chairman and CEO of all 4 entities evolved here. When IP Application try to buy the IPAD name, Mr.Yang represented all 3 entities (Proview Holdings, Proview Electronics and Proview Shenzhen) to make deal with IP Application, and he agreed to sell the IPAD name to IP Application.

After get payment from IP Application, Mr.Yang sold this trade mark again to Yoke Technology which also owned by him.

Now Mr.Yang appear again in media, accusing Apple to steal that trade mark from him and ask for 1.5 bil compensation.

I don't know what do you think about all this. But I myself find it very interesting the way they do business in China. This can be a case study all universities in China need to add to their lectures to teach Chinese students how to make 1.5 bil with just a name.

That's like me selling you my car. Getting paid by you, but before you come to pick it up, I sell it to my 6 year old son. Now if you actually want to drive away with your car you need to pay my son an absurd amount of money. This is simply crazy.

This is extortion. Yang cannot sell the rights to something that he no longer owns... to HIMSELF no less. What a crook!

It was reported this week that the original purchase was for the iPad name in a handful of countries INCLUDING China.
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post #49 of 51
2/18/12 at 10:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo63 View Post

That's like me selling you my car. Getting paid by you, but before you come to pick it up, I sell it to my 6 year old son. Now if you actually want to drive away with your car you need to pay my son an absurd amount of money. This is simply crazy.

This is extortion. Yang cannot sell the rights to something that he no longer owns... to HIMSELF no less. What a crook!

It was reported this week that the original purchase was for the iPad name in a handful of countries INCLUDING China.

Indeed, this part is quite clear as I mention in my other posts. The question is not parent companies, group companies, bankruptcy or what not. At the centre is the issue of title or "entitlement" or "ownership of something", particularly trademark ownership.
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post #50 of 51
2/18/12 at 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

None of us know who knew what when, or whether Apple was bamboozled, or whether Apple was just negligent or whether Apple knew everything, and decided to play games.

Apple bought the mark from Proview Electronics, a company in Taiwan.

Unfortunately, in China, the mark was (and still is) owned by Proview Technology (Shenzhen) Co Ltd, who have no obligations to Apple. Or so says the Chinese Court. Apple is currently appealing this decision.

Proview International Holdings Ltd. owns both the companies mentioned.

The Hong Kong decision ( http://www.hklii.hk/cgi-bin/sinodisp...2011/1375.html ) is quite clear, and I am still astounded that huge elements of the media are just rehashing whatever superficial rubbish is circulating on the newswires.

1.
Apple was misled. Could Apple have done better? Possibly, but they were keen to move on with the iPad Jan 2010 launch and at the same time perhaps they weren't aware of the legal cesspool that is, Asia.

2.
Apple didn't play any games, they dealt with Mr. Yang, who represents all of Proview, including Proview Shenzhen, who collectively agreed to sell the iPad trademarks including the China Trademark to Apple.

3.
After the iPad launch, more investigation by Apple discovered a loophole in the China Trademarks, and since January 2010 attempted to rectify this.

4. The ownership of the China Trademarks is the subject of this loophole, whereby the Shenzen company can claim to not have transferred the ownership, but it doesn't make sense how that could be because it's all the same guy ~ Mr. Yang who owns all the companies.
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post #51 of 51
2/20/12 at 7:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

I hope Apple and every other American company that out-sources its manufacturing take this as a lesson why it's better "Made in American by Americans." China might have been good for the bottom line in the past but not so much anymore, particularly with right-to-work States. The US Government today loves to regulate. They should legislate an end to out-sourcing without a heavy tax burden. Sure it's protectionism and goes against my Republican proclivities but I believe if you want American protection for your company, then your product should be made in American by Americans.

Call me what you want. I don't care.

"Made in American by Americans." If that were the case, then who would line up to buy iPads priced at $4999?
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