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Apple unveils Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion coming this summer with 100+ new features - Page 7

post #241 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

Expose was too fussy for me, so i never used it. i actually use Mission Control and find it helpful.

which proves, many of these things are simply matters of personal taste.

I came to MacOSX a year or so ago - from Linux - and have not regretted the move. One of the things that appealed to me right away was space/expose. On Linux I had multiple virtual desktops and, unlike Windows, so did the Mac! One of the features I used a lot in Linux - and which the Mac also had - was the ability to easily move windows from one desktop to another. I use that every day.

But with Lion, that capability just, poof, went away. Mission control does it in such a clumsy way: you have to first select the "source" (the one containing the window you want to move) and then drag that to the miniature representation of the "target" desktop.....in Expose, you could simply move the window! Not only that, in Lion, if the window is on the secondary monitor, it's even more awkward: you have to do the above AND THEN select the destination desktop AND THEN move the window once again to its place on the secondary monitor. This really sucks.

I don't have enough history with MacOSX to know whether it's going downhill or not, but this is a feature that *lost* usability rather than improved it. And I wish the Apple team invested some time in getting it back into Mac OSX.
post #242 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I don't know why people think Mountain Lion is dumbed down. What's dumb about Notes, Reminders, Notifications, Cloud Integration, Code signing, Airplay Mirroring?

Ok, Twitter is dumb, but I don't mind all the social networking stuff if it's hidden behind a Share Sheet button I can safely ignore.

You can still do all the hard core stuff you can do with Lion: open a terminal window, write your own app in C and run it (without signing if you don't want)... There's no dumbing down.

Because we're getting no substance. It's all fluff and it's all been done before. Notes, Reminders, Notifications, Cloud Integration, Code signing, Airplay Mirroring are all copies - regurgitations - of what's already available, what's already been done in iOS. This isn't OS X innovation. It's OS X trivialization.

Where are the xHCI USB3.0 drivers? Do we get an up-to-date OpenGL, or more of the same old crapola? Where's Mountain Lion server? Can we span multiple monitors with actual reliability? Will we get better memory management? Will there be anything innovative to plug into that fabulously pathetic Thunderbolt port (i.e., will Apple kick Intel's ass to get their act together)?

Or are we just a big shiny $2500 cell phone now?
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post #243 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

Where are the xHCI USB3.0 drivers?

In Ivy Bridge, which isn't out yet and therefore has no place being told to us

Quote:
Will there be anything innovative to plug into that fabulously pathetic Thunderbolt port (i.e., will Apple kick Intel's ass to get their act together)?



Quote:
Or are we just a big shiny $2500 cell phone now?

Honestly, get over this.

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post #244 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Honestly, get over this.

Honestly, get with it.

I have no qualms or issues with innovation. It's good for my Apple stock. This is not OS X innovation.

And it's great Apple's selling lots of iPads and iPhones. It's super duper, really. But to me, that has zero to do with Mac OS X.

When I paid for all the Apple computers in our lab and across our office, and there's a boatload of them, I expected a robust OS X, not iOS. If I had wanted iPads at each workstation, I would have purchased iPads at each workstation.

Where's the speed improvements in Mountain Lion? Stability improvements? Server? Ivy Bridge is not needed to get USB3.0, there are stand alone controllers. Apple used stand alone controllers for SCSI, USB1.0, USB1.1, FireWire and now, Thunderbolt. They could easily use them again. But this wouldn't be iPad-like. And Mountain Lion is "inspired by iPad."

We don't want an iPad Pro.

Interesting that Lion's adoption rate beats Vista but lags big time vs Snow Leopard.

Why you would even care about how we go about our business and what our technical needs are baffles me...
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post #245 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

When I paid for all the Apple computers in our lab and across our office, and there's a boatload of them, I expected a robust OS X

Show me where you're not getting that. Did they remove the Terminal? Can you not get to the Finder?

Quote:
Where's the speed improvements in Mountain Lion? Stability improvements?

All over the place, but you'd know that if you'd used it.

Quote:
Why you would even care about how we go about our business and what our technical needs are baffles me

And since you've not even tried Mountain Lion, I can't imagine how you know your technical needs aren't met by it.

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #246 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

Honestly, get with it.

I have no qualms or issues with innovation. It's good for my Apple stock. This is not OS X innovation.

YOu do have issues with innovation because you don't think that making the Mac better is innovation. You are losing nothing from the Mac but gaining functionality and usabilty and yet you are complaining. You even complained that bringing AirPlay to the Mac yet now all those people that complained about not having Safari on their TV can now do it was a $99 AppleTV.

Quote:
And it's great Apple's selling lots of iPads and iPhones. It's super duper, really. But to me, that has zero to do with Mac OS X.

So you're upset that Apple has not only shown heavy focus on the Mac by doing yearly updates but is also trying to get the Mac to be more popular than before by taking elements that work cross-platform and applying them to OS X to make the Mac more useable and instantly familiar to users.

You really don't see what it wrong with your perception here, do you?

Quote:
When I paid for all the Apple computers in our lab and across our office, and there's a boatload of them, I expected a robust OS X, not iOS. If I had wanted iPads at each workstation, I would have purchased iPads at each workstation.

Then ignore this update and keep using Lion or SL or whatever you think the last "real" version of Mac OS X was. It's not like anyone expected ML to arrive until 2013 or 2014 anyway. I'm sure by then the people that are complaining about ML now will be saying that ML was the last "real' version of OS X and that 10.10 is where Apple has lost its way.

Quote:
Where's the speed improvements in Mountain Lion? Stability improvements?

Where are the stability improvements in the first beta of a new OS?

As for speed there are plenty of little speed improvements across many apps. Safari's visual history and Mail in general certainly load faster. I already use an SSD so an app taking more than one bounce to launch is a rarity so I'm hard pressed to accurately measure milliseconds but perception-wise the whole thing appears to respond a little better.

Most of the speed improvements are coming from usability enhancements. For instance Notification Center can be invoked by hitting the button in the upper right corner or, more easily, sliding two fingers from the right edge just off the trackpad toward the center of the trackpad. It's just like with iOS except it's on the side. That allows me to see a lot of information quickly.

Quote:
Server? Ivy Bridge is not needed to get USB3.0, there are stand alone controllers.

And those controllers are HW that no Mac has yet your previous comment suggested that Apple could simply supply USB 3.0 drivers to make it work. As TS stated USB 3.0 will come with Ivy Bridge because it's part of the chipset. If it doesn't then I'll join you in complaining.

Quote:
Apple used stand alone controllers for SCSI, USB1.0, USB1.1, FireWire and now, Thunderbolt. They could easily use them again. But this wouldn't be iPad-like. And Mountain Lion is "inspired by iPad."

Apple used stand alone controllers for a lot of things and they also didn't for a lot of things. What's your point? And why are you even bringing it up when the next round of Mac updates will include Ivy Bridge with the USB 3.0 controller built in?

Quote:
We don't want an iPad Pro.

This kind of hyperbole shows you're not even trying to think about this rationally.

Quote:
Interesting that Lion's adoption rate beats Vista but lags big time vs Snow Leopard.

Proof? I have a hard time believing that Lion outsold Vista.

Quote:
Why you would even care about how we go about our business and what our technical needs are baffles me...

What does this even mean? You came to an open internet forum to complain about an OS update you are not forced to install with issues that you've made up without actually understanding the issues. You lose nothing with ML. If you don't want to use iCloud don't use an iCloud ID. It's that fucking simple. You don't want to extend your Mac into a more useful device that seamlessly connects with an iDevice or AppleTV then don't use those features. Messages doesn't remove anything iCat had, it just finally adds iMessages to the list of IM options.

Bottom line: If I have one complaint about ML it's that this is what I expected from Lion over a year ago.

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post #247 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Show me where you're not getting that. Did they remove the Terminal? Can you not get to the Finder?

It's amazing the number of myopic reactionary complaints on various forums. On David Pogue's article the commenters were rallying against how LaunchPad has ruined the Mac yet I don't recall anyone stating how Finder still exists or that you don't have to use LaunchPad.

I removed it from Dock immediately. As a longtime Mac user I know the name of the apps I want and where they are. I still don't use Finder for them as that's slow, just use Spotlight to grab them if they aren't already pinned to my Dock.

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post #248 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I removed it from Dock immediately. As a longtime Mac user I know the name of the apps I want and where they are. I still don't use Finder for them as that's slow, just use Spotlight to grab them if they aren't already pinned to my Dock.

There's a search in Launchpad in Mountain Lion now, which is probably nice for people with enough applications to lose in it, even with the best organizational pattern.

I just wish the FREAKING FOLDERS WOULD CLOSE when you pick an application from them.

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #249 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

There's a search in Launchpad in Mountain Lion now, which is probably nice for people with enough applications to lose in it, even with the best organizational pattern.

The search is nice. The whole reason for LuanchPad for those unfamiliar with a standard OS file system can find apps easily so it makes sense, hence my previous comment about ML being what LIon should have been last year.

Quote:
I just wish the FREAKING FOLDERS WOULD CLOSE when you pick an application from them.

I see your point. This is different from iOS. I wonder if it's so users won't have to go looking for that same folder again if they are opening multiple apps in the folder? Should iOS follow this method of the other way around? Overall I think it's a moot point since this it's not an app for those familiar with OS X. It's a starter Finder.

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post #250 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post

And "Mountain Lion"? Really? When I first heard it, I thought it was a joke. That makes three Apple OS releases that are basically the same animal (Puma, Panther, Mountain Lion).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Pretty much. What's next? West Texas Mountain Lion?

'Cougar' may be tapped for an upcoming release.

Wikipedia:
Quote:
cougar (Puma concolor), also known as puma, mountain lion, mountain cat, catamount or panther,
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post #251 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post


Interesting that Lion's adoption rate beats Vista but lags big time vs Snow Leopard.

Omnigroup's data says otherwise.

http://www.omnigroup.com/blog/entry/lion_adoption/
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post #252 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Omnigroup's data says otherwise.

http://www.omnigroup.com/blog/entry/lion_adoption/

Interesting chart.
And it does look like strong Lion uptake.
Though, it is only for Omni application users...

I wish there was a graph that shows OS uptake (across all OS X users) in two components:

- those who intentionally upgrade from a previous OS release, vs.
- those who get the newer OS because it came on the machine they bought.

(but that's just my curiosity)

I will say that I like the Omnigroup folks - even bought their whole suite of apps a few years back.
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post #253 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Young View Post

Interesting chart.
And it does look like strong Lion uptake.
Though, it is only for Omni application users...

I wish there was a graph that shows OS uptake (across all OS X users) in two components:

- those who intentionally upgrade from a previous OS release, vs.
- those who get the newer OS because it came on the machine they bought.

(but that's just my curiosity)

I will say that I like the Omnigroup folks - even bought their whole suite of apps a few years back.

You can extrapolate that info (for the most part) by looking at the number of Mac sales. Apple updates their Macs immediately just make sure you divide the total by the number of days and subtract the estimated number of sales prior to the launch of the OS. I wouldn't bother with weighting the numbers in favour of more sales post the OS release even though they would be higher.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #254 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

Honestly, get with it.

I have no qualms or issues with innovation. It's good for my Apple stock. This is not OS X innovation.

And it's great Apple's selling lots of iPads and iPhones. It's super duper, really. But to me, that has zero to do with Mac OS X.

When I paid for all the Apple computers in our lab and across our office, and there's a boatload of them, I expected a robust OS X, not iOS. If I had wanted iPads at each workstation, I would have purchased iPads at each workstation.

Where's the speed improvements in Mountain Lion? Stability improvements? Server? Ivy Bridge is not needed to get USB3.0, there are stand alone controllers. Apple used stand alone controllers for SCSI, USB1.0, USB1.1, FireWire and now, Thunderbolt. They could easily use them again. But this wouldn't be iPad-like. And Mountain Lion is "inspired by iPad."

We don't want an iPad Pro.

Interesting that Lion's adoption rate beats Vista but lags big time vs Snow Leopard.

Why you would even care about how we go about our business and what our technical needs are baffles me...


For my work - a professional photography studio - I have not updated my big Mac Pros to Lion - and see no desire to do so for Mountain Lion as yet. What I need are speed improvements - and a replacement for the eSATA PCIe board and connections that I use to move image files back and forth from 15 external drives - 30 TB of external storage that I have to interact with. Thunderbolt --- Pie in the Sky - with big $$$$...
I love my iPad and my iPhone 4S - and the new iMac in the office (came with Lion installed as did my new MacBook Pro), but my big Mac Pros are failing at working with the 2.3 GB 16-bit images that we print onto canvas at 44x68 inches and 360ppi.
My Better Light camera system shoots 600 MB photos at 245 megapixels- and I spend half my days watching bars go across the screen - or spinning beach balls - even with 16GB of RAM.
My newest Nikon D800 will use USB3 - which I do not have and may not get. Nikon USA only last week update their software to Lion ...
And now, the OS becomes more iPhone like ...... I still miss "Save As" ---

Yippee - not.
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post #255 of 274
Notes, Reminders, and Messages should have come with Lion! It's great they're finally coming. It's odd having an OS without those three key apps included. The OS X and iOS ecosystem will finally almost be complete with these apps and other additions in Mountain Lion. Looking forward to it! I think it's great too maybe moving toward an annual OS X update release, much like iOS. Less expensive too in the MAS, all digital, it's the future. I also have hopes that Apple's secrecy isn't so secret in the future. You gotta keep your customers informed of what's to come. For those that miss the messages because they are released so late, will most likely not catch up! Give the info early, for customer recognition. Secrecy will just confuse your customers.
post #256 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPhotos View Post

For my work - a professional photography studio - I have not updated my big Mac Pros to Lion - and see no desire to do so for Mountain Lion as yet. What I need are speed improvements - and a replacement for the eSATA PCIe board and connections that I use to move image files back and forth from 15 external drives - 30 TB of external storage that I have to interact with. Thunderbolt --- Pie in the Sky - with big $$$$...
I love my iPad and my iPhone 4S - and the new iMac in the office (came with Lion installed as did my new MacBook Pro), but my big Mac Pros are failing at working with the 2.3 GB 16-bit images that we print onto canvas at 44x68 inches and 360ppi.
My Better Light camera system shoots 600 MB photos at 245 megapixels- and I spend half my days watching bars go across the screen - or spinning beach balls - even with 16GB of RAM.
My newest Nikon D800 will use USB3 - which I do not have and may not get. Nikon USA only last week update their software to Lion ...
And now, the OS becomes more iPhone like ...... I still miss "Save As" ---

Yippee - not.

Mountain Lion is not a Mac OS X OS upgrade, it's nothing more than an "iPad apps for Lion" app pack.
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post #257 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

Mountain Lion is not a Mac OS X OS upgrade, it's nothing more than an "iPad apps for Lion" app pack.

Depends on how you define "upgrade"
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post #258 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

Mountain Lion is not a Mac OS X OS upgrade, it's nothing more than an "iPad apps for Lion" app pack.

Then don't upgrade if you want to believe those lies. No one's forcing you to upgrade.

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #259 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Then don't upgrade if you want to believe those lies. No one's forcing you to upgrade.

Do you have anything of value to add? Otherwise, why bother?
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post #260 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Young View Post

'Cougar' may be tapped for an upcoming release.

Wikipedia:

The way things are going the next version will be called "road kill feline" because Mac Os x will have been run over with a mack truck full of iPads bound for Walmart.
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post #261 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

Do you have anything of value to add? Otherwise, why bother?

You've already been proven wrong a dozen times over. What you've said is far, FAR from the case. The question you've asked is more valid if it's asked of you, not me.

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #262 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

Mountain Lion is not a Mac OS X OS upgrade, it's nothing more than an "iPad apps for Lion" app pack.

I can see how you would get that impression looking at Apple's highlight reel, but they have also said it's 100+ new features, and I think you'll find the other 90 are the "usual" OS upgrade stuff.
post #263 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

Mountain Lion is not a Mac OS X OS upgrade, it's nothing more than an "iPad apps for Lion" app pack.

Do you mean "sw_vers" returns 10.7.3 on ML?
post #264 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

...
Or are we just a big shiny $2500 cell phone now?

^This
post #265 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

^This

^is abject nonsense.

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #266 of 274
I still regret my update to Lion. I'm a professional user and have been for over a decade. I'm not just browsing the web and playing with iLife or MS word. It is time for an upgrade from my 2009 quad core 2.66 mac pro with 16GB of Ram and 4TB of storage. I guess all I'd need is the newer hardware, not more ram or storage. I have played with Lion on brand new machines and am not impressed though. It feels like a buggy step backward with a lot of things that still need fixing. Now they are going to release another OS upgrade when Lion still feels broken?
post #267 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexmit View Post

I still regret my update to Lion. I'm a professional user and have been for over a decade. I'm not just browsing the web and playing with iLife or MS word. It is time for an upgrade from my 2009 quad core 2.66 mac pro with 16GB of Ram and 4TB of storage. I guess all I'd need is the newer hardware, not more ram or storage. I have played with Lion on brand new machines and am not impressed though. It feels like a buggy step backward with a lot of things that still need fixing. Now they are going to release another OS upgrade when Lion still feels broken?

I agree! I still miss Snow Leopard. Especially on my dual screen setup. I have a separate iPad for a reason, I don't want my 27" i7 to become a glorified iPad in the way I interact with it. Snow Leopard gestures were amazing, Lion just feels overdone and chaotic. Two fingers perform a certain action in one app that it takes three fingers to perform in another app. I would be ok with Lion if it simply gave the option for classic spaces/expose function.
post #268 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Nelson View Post

I agree! I still miss Snow Leopard. Especially on my dual screen setup. I have a separate iPad for a reason, I don't want my 27" i7 to become a glorified iPad in the way I interact with it.

So the iPad is glorified iPod Touch, and now the Mac is a glorified iPad, so the Mac is a glorified iPod Touch?

Quote:
Snow Leopard gestures were amazing, Lion just feels overdone and chaotic.

It's not more chaotic, it's much more refined. Wasn't it a 3 or 4 finger swipe to activate Spaces in SL?

Quote:
Two fingers perform a certain action in one app that it takes three fingers to perform in another app.

The same actions work the same across the board.

Quote:
I would be ok with Lion if it simply gave the option for classic spaces/expose function.

You aren't going to get Spaces back. Mission Control is a better system. You still have Exposé with the caveat that it also invokes that new Spaces system that is Mission Control. It's a better system. You also still have Hot Corners.

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post #269 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Nelson View Post

I agree! I still miss Snow Leopard. Especially on my dual screen setup. I have a separate iPad for a reason, I don't want my 27" i7 to become a glorified iPad in the way I interact with it. Snow Leopard gestures were amazing, Lion just feels overdone and chaotic. Two fingers perform a certain action in one app that it takes three fingers to perform in another app. I would be ok with Lion if it simply gave the option for classic spaces/expose function.

Regarding gestures, I work both with SL and Lion, so I needed to set the gestures in the same way so that they work in both systems. It wasn't straightforward to achieve, but I finally succeeded, except for the "show desktop" gesture, which in SL is 4 fingers up, and in Lion 4 fingers separating.

I think they could have offered the same set of gestures in SL and Lion.
post #270 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You still have Exposé with the caveat that it also invokes that new Spaces system that is Mission Control. It's a better system. You also still have Hot Corners.

Disagree. This isn't Exposé, because it only shows the windows of the current application, unlike the real Exposé, which showed all windows. I've made several mistakes when using Lion, because of the confusion generated with this new behavior. Also, Mission Control shows all windows, but stacked, so it's very hard to chose the window you want when an app has several windows. You've to use first Mission Control to select the app, and then Exposé to select the window (or click the app in the dock and then choose the window with Exposé), while in SL it was just Exposé (a drag and a click). The previous system was easier, simpler, and quicker to use.
post #271 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

What's wrong with it?

The address book is so wrong on so many levels that its better to ask whats good about it compared to the version before?

Answer: Nothing!!!
post #272 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by habi View Post

The address book is so wrong on so many levels that its better to ask whats good about it compared to the version before?

Answer: Nothing!!!

You didn't answer his question. You just engaged in another rant. I think the biggest issue that I read with the new address book was the lack of a 3 pane view. That's thankfully coming back in ML

I've still yet to read a decent reason why Mission Control is worse than Exposè and Spaces.

I loved Exposè like many but felt it really didn't scale well when you had a whole bunch of windows. They got too small IMO.

Now with MC I've got my Spaces layed out horizontally running full screen apps and my windowed apps have more room to let me see the content when scaled.

I know old habits die hard but I think overall Apple made the right decision here.
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post #273 of 274
I've looked and looked and have not been able to come up with answers for these two feature needs. I'm in the professional audio business and we sell a 32" touchscreen specifically designed/configured for DAW (digital audio workstation) applications.(www.DAWtouchDOTcom).

The two things users ask us at trade shows and industry events are:
Will Mountain Lion have multi-finger (10 finger) touch support? Mixing consoles have 16-96 faders, and mixing engineers have 10 fingers that they use simultaneously when mixing, particularly in live use or in mixdown for recording sessions. I would think that with Win 8 (WinTouch) hitting the streets soon, Apple would be jumping on this as well, particularly given that Apple owns Logic, one of the two leading DAW applications.

Will Mountain Lion support pressure sensitive touch? My XP Thinkpad that is 5 years old has this built in, while my new MBP doesn't have it. I've looked at the message boards and people have been asking for pressure sensitivity on the MBP trackpad for at least 3 years, but Apple has not once responded to the end user requests for this feature implementation into MBP trackpads.

Many buttons in the physical world (like on mixing consoles) have multiple function levels depending on how hard you push the button. Tapping 3 times to get the same function is definitely not the same as just pushing "deeply" once to get to the function in an instant. Not offering the function, or offering it via a change in workflow is not acceptable to users. They'd rather just stick to their analog gear that allows them to work fast and get projects completed fast for their paying clients, instead of switching over to the "newer, better, digital way" of doing things that requires them to change their workflow to a slower methodology.
post #274 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabeachguy View Post

Will Mountain Lion have multi-finger (10 finger) touch support

This is already available on Lion, and I believe it's available on Snow Leopard as well. Maybe there're no apps that use it, but the software is there: Just install MagicPrefs, turn on the preview, and begin to put fingers over your Magic Trackpad: I've been able to track my ten fingers. Maybe it can track even more, but didn't have a colleague nearby for trying it

So, yes, the low-level API for multitouch can track 10 fingers if you wish so.
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