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Mountain Lion's Gatekeeper to bring optional app restrictions to OS X - Page 2

post #41 of 48
I'm wondering if this feature is going to be like Windows - it warns you so often you just get use dto hitting OK all the time, never bothering to read the dialog any more; and eventually saying 'OK' to something bad.
post #42 of 48
I started to reuse Macs in 2001 after a almost 6 year absents do to me working almost exclusively on a Sparc machine, oh and I thought OS 9 was a complete piece of sh**. I went back to Macs after the introduction of OSX because of it's BSD underpins and powerful desktop. It made it the best nix machine around. Sure I still owned a Sparc desktop machine but the Mac was my main developing platform.

I never really used any of the iApps Apple had created I have always used Open Source software, the stuff I make and I always will. This new Gatekeeper is kind of scary for a guy like me. Will OSX 10.8 be the final OS in which I will have free realm over my own machine. I don't know and nor do I think I'm going to stick around much longer to find out. I still have a iMac 27 2010", ProMac 2010 and a Macbook Air 11 2011" so I'll be using them for the foreseeable future however starting with my tablets I am slowing moving away from Apple.

Even before the introduction of this Gatekeeper, Apple's iOS started to make me feel uneasy. I first started to realize the direction Apple was going when I got my Asus Slider last December and couldn't believe how open it was compared to my iPad. I had a file manager that could see the entire drive including system files, I had access to a terminal app with full nix commands; PHP, Pearl, Python, Ruby. I could install any application I wished without having to Jail break, it supported every codec I could through at it including the DRM stuff (out of the box!). If it wasn't for the awesome music creation apps that I use on a daily basis I would have sold my iPad. Yes the iPad still has the best apps at the moment but as far as the OS is concerned I really want nothing more to do with it. It's just to closed for my liking.

This Gatekeeper, even if you are aloud to bypass uncertified apps, the app in question is still possibly registered with Gatekeeper(Apple). Apple, oh look how many people are still using VLC instead of our iApp, send in our lawyers to stop them or hey let's buy them out and simply trash the app, yea that's quicker.

Look I never minded paying higher prices for Apple products because they are well engineered and beautiful machines. However now I'm less inclined to pay those high prices if I'm being forced into a closed platform with a ecosystem that I am not really interested in.

Linux has finally become a half way decent desktop to work on and I have been using it more and more so I now have a viable solution if and when Apple goes completely totalitarian with their platform. Plus I'm really getting into designing applications that utilize Tesla GPU computing from Nvidia so it's only logical that I start moving away from Apple anyway.

Apple is clearly not interested in the pro-consumer any longer and are shifting their focus to the average user. Evidence is becoming more and more clear when you look at the current state of their pro software like FinalCut and slow updates to the their towers.

There is nothing wrong with that of course, I guess I'm just a little sad as I really enjoyed being an Apple user over the years. However I'm not liking this future that Apple has planned for us. I'm sure most of you will be content to have a company dictate to you on how their product should be used and that there will not be any deviation from their plan.

Me, after I'm done with my current Mac lineup I'll say farewell to Apple for a while just like I did in the early 90's. Who knows maybe they'll come out with that OSX type OS that drew me back in 2001 but until then HPC Linux baby!
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #43 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I started to reuse Macs in 2001 after a almost 6 year absents do to me working almost exclusively on a Sparc machine, oh and I thought OS 9 was a complete piece of sh**. I went back to Macs after the introduction of OSX because of it's BSD underpins and powerful desktop. It made it the best nix machine around. Sure I still owned a Sparc desktop machine but the Mac was my main developing platform.

I never really used any of the iApps Apple had created I have always used Open Source software, the stuff I make and I always will. This new Gatekeeper is kind of scary for a guy like me. Will OSX 10.8 be the final OS in which I will have free realm over my own machine. I don't know and nor do I think I'm going to stick around much longer to find out. I still have a iMac 27 2010", ProMac 2010 and a Macbook Air 11 2011" so I'll be using them for the foreseeable future however starting with my tablets I am slowing moving away from Apple.

Even before the introduction of this Gatekeeper, Apple's iOS started to make me feel uneasy. I first started to realize the direction Apple was going when I got my Asus Slider last December and couldn't believe how open it was compared to my iPad. I had a file manager that could see the entire drive including system files, I had access to a terminal app with full nix commands; PHP, Pearl, Python, Ruby. I could install any application I wished without having to Jail break, it supported every codec I could through at it including the DRM stuff (out of the box!). If it wasn't for the awesome music creation apps that I use on a daily basis I would have sold my iPad. Yes the iPad still has the best apps at the moment but as far as the OS is concerned I really want nothing more to do with it. It's just to closed for my liking.

This Gatekeeper, even if you are aloud to bypass uncertified apps, the app in question is still possibly registered with Gatekeeper(Apple). Apple, oh look how many people are still using VLC instead of our iApp, send in our lawyers to stop them or hey let's buy them out and simply trash the app, yea that's quicker.

Look I never minded paying higher prices for Apple products because they are well engineered and beautiful machines. However now I'm less inclined to pay those high prices if I'm being forced into a closed platform with a ecosystem that I am not really interested in.

Linux has finally become a half way decent desktop to work on and I have been using it more and more so I now have a viable solution if and when Apple goes completely totalitarian with their platform. Plus I'm really getting into designing applications that utilize Tesla GPU computing from Nvidia so it's only logical that I start moving away from Apple anyway.

Apple is clearly not interested in the pro-consumer any longer and are shifting their focus to the average user. Evidence is becoming more and more clear when you look at the current state of their pro software like FinalCut and slow updates to the their towers.

There is nothing wrong with that of course, I guess I'm just a little sad as I really enjoyed being an Apple user over the years. However I'm not liking this future that Apple has planned for us. I'm sure most of you will be content to have a company dictate to you on how their product should be used and that there will not be any deviation from their plan.

Me, after I'm done with my current Mac lineup I'll say farewell to Apple for a while just like I did in the early 90's. Who knows maybe they'll come out with that OSX type OS that drew me back in 2001 but until then HPC Linux baby!

So just to be clear - you are going to stop using Macs just in case in some future version of the operating system (although not the next one), and even though they have not suggested that they will do this, they restrict you from doing things that you can currently do? Impressively proactive.
post #44 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

So just to be clear - you are going to stop using Macs just in case in some future version of the operating system (although not the next one), and even though they have not suggested that they will do this, they restrict you from doing things that you can currently do? Impressively proactive.

I'm not that crazy or paranoid. Gatekeeper is just a small tidbit of things that are starting to bother me about the way Apples OS's are going.

like I said 80% of my computers are currently Macs anyway and most are fairly new so it will be a while before I can faze them out completely. So I'll get to see what happens in OSX version 10.8 and possibly 10.9. If OSX continues this iOS-ification of OSX then most defiantly I will drop Apple as a hardware provider or possibly just use the hardware and install Linux over them. I still think their laptops are lovely and I'm currently running CentOS 6.2 in a Bootcamp configuration anyway so it won't be that much of a change.

I will replace my Mac Pro though, in fact I have already sold it as of last night. I needed the extra money to help purchase additional cards for my Tesla Workstation. Apples position on pro towers is just to fuzzy for me to continue with them plus Apple just doesn't support the new technology that I'm interested in at the moment. Like Tesla, SLI, USB 3.0, Thunderbolt, DLNA, and so on. Sure some of that will maybe be announced in future upgrades or they just might discontinue the whole bloody line, to fuzzy. Besides I'm having just way to much fun with my new Tesla Workstation from Penguin Computing to care at the moment, I moved on.

I'm a Unix and Open Source guy, I want, need, full control over my computers and mobile devices or it drives me crazy. Since I was a kid I always had to know how things worked and how I can it make it better even if it meant making it worse, it's how I learn. Stuff like the iPad and iPhone, though beautiful pieces of hardware are just way to closed source for my liking. So yes I fear that Apple is going to take away my OSX command line soon and I just want to be fully prepared to abandon ship when they do.
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #45 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I fear that Apple is going to take away my OSX command line soon and I just want to be fully prepared to abandon ship when they do.

I doubt it, they ship CLI-only apps with the developer tools. The worst they'd do is only install the terminal with the developer tools but then web developers still need it for configuring the apache webserver that ships with every OS X installation.

I think Apple is pulling iOS up to the flexibility of OS X and locking OS X down to the point of being almost as secure and idiot proof as iOS. They might never meet exactly in the middle but there should come a point when they both make the best compromises.
post #46 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I doubt it, they ship CLI-only apps with the developer tools. The worst they'd do is only install the terminal with the developer tools but then web developers still need it for configuring the apache webserver that ships with every OS X installation.

I think Apple is pulling iOS up to the flexibility of OS X and locking OS X down to the point of being almost as secure and idiot proof as iOS. They might never meet exactly in the middle but there should come a point when they both make the best compromises.

It's very easy to restart any service in OSX with a servlet without ever having to go to the command line to do so. If they do go the way of developer only terminal access do you think I would have to sign up as a developer and pay a yearly fee for that privelage?

I dont't know if you've used any of the new Linux distro's like Mint Linux but they have gotten quite good and will never have those restrictions shoved down a pro users throat. Ubuntu is coming out with a dual boot solution for phones where when your mobile you will be in Android 4.2 and when your docked at home the same phone boots into a full Ubuntu 12.04 desktop. Both modes will have the same access to your data. This is going to be absolutly great if I can develop my Andoid apps using Ubuntu with a complete IDE and then get to test out said app on the same device but in Android mode.

Open devices and hardware just provide someone like me a better enviroment to create and play. I just wish Apple would cater to someone like me to.
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #47 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

If they do go the way of developer only terminal access do you think I would have to sign up as a developer and pay a yearly fee for that privelage?

That's only for iOS testing/publishing and Mac publishing (iOS testing should be free IMO). The Mac developer tools are free though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Ubuntu is coming out with a dual boot solution for phones where when your mobile you will be in Android 4.2 and when your docked at home the same phone boots into a full Ubuntu 12.04 desktop. Both modes will have the same access to your data. This is going to be absolutly great if I can develop my Andoid apps using Ubuntu with a complete IDE and then get to test out said app on the same device but in Android mode.

Yeah, I saw this. It looks pretty cool. This is the sort of thing I imagined for Apple's iOS devices but possibly not with two different OSs. It would just use the Cocoa UI in a desktop dock and Cocoa Touch normally. Apple would only let this happen when they sandbox OS X enough though so that you couldn't screw up the device. But, at least with their recovery volume, they could let iOS devices repair themselves if they did, so they wouldn't have to lock it down entirely.

This would work with a Macbook Air too - touch screen on the back of the display with a smart cover, close it and it runs with Cocoa Touch, open it and it behaves like a normal Mac. Essentially an iPad and Air in one device. It needs an OLED panel on the back though and probably slimmer/lighter and they'd have to decide to go with either ARM or x86 or they would need 2 compiled OSs and apps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Open devices and hardware just provide someone like me a better enviroment to create and play. I just wish Apple would cater to someone like me to.

I do wish they were a bit more loose on some of their policies. We're now well over 2 months in from the OnLive Player app going through App Store approval and no sign of it yet, while Android users enjoy playing full desktop games on their tablets and phones without restriction.

It's a very difficult position being the arbiter of all content. The benefits of having the restrictions are clear in that we don't have to deal with malware. But, Apple isn't just restricting malware, they are restricting apps that don't follow their arbitrary rules for profit motive, for development practices or for obscene/inflammatory content. That's censorship more than protection.

They could at least do the following:
Put censored apps in a restricted area.
Rather than take 30% of all subscriptions, mandate that apps with subscriptions aren't free and set the minimum price.
I partly agree with restricting apps that use dynamic code but apps have scripting environments for plugins so I think Apple has to at least give developers an option to have approved plugins for their apps, even for their own benefit - it would be nice to install Safari extensions on iOS for example.
post #48 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

it would be nice to install Safari extensions on iOS for example.

First thank you for your post it was well written and very informative. My English skills still prohibits me a little from always getting my full point across. Yes Safari right, I would love to write specific extension that I need for work. It's ok though I have Chromium and Firefox for that.

I have a Chromebook just so I can test out my extensions and cloud apps on it and I love it. It would be awesome if Apple had a cloud product like that where I could completely submerge my self into the internet. Who knows in 10 years we may all be using a Chromebook like computer, I can only dream.

Cereal-Killer: "Hack the planet!"
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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