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Mountain Lion brings new iOS-like file handling, iCloud App Library features

post #1 of 96
Thread Starter 
OS X Mountain Lion brings a new document handling experience to the Mac platform that offers an iOS-like, iCloud-based alternative to the conventional file system.

After introducing Auto Save and Revisions to OS X Lion, along with initial support for iCloud, the next major release of OS X dramatically changes how users can interact with documents.

Mountain Lion borrows the streamlined, graphical presentation of documents from iOS, where users select documents in apps like Apple's iWork without navigating through a hierarchical file system. In iOS, an app's documents are stored within the app's sandbox, and each app can only see their own documents.

iCloud works the same way, storing an app's unique to that app, a security measure that prevents rogue apps or malware from deleting, accessing or modifying data they are not authorized to use. Apple refers to this convention as an "App Library."




Currently, iOS 5 versions of iWork already take advantage of iCloud documents. In OS X Mountain Lion, apps will be able to take broader advantage of the same type of documents integration, paving the way for a new version of iWorks that accesses documents from the App Library the same way Mountain Lion's other apps do.

In Mountain Lion, Apple presents a new file dialog with two options: the conventional file system under "On My Mac," and an App Library, an iOS-like depiction of the app's own iCloud files, portrayed similar to iOS apps, with the same ability to be organized into "Folders."

A graphic published by PCWorld depicts how this appears within the Preview app, with various iCloud documents from Preview's cloud based App Library appearing on a linen background similar to the Templates selection of iWork apps.




Apple is also refining how related document handling features, such as Auto Save, Duplicates, Versions and Time Machine, work, making it simpler for users to work with files.

In Mountain Lion, Auto Save can now automatically create and save new iCloud-based documents in apps that support the cloud service. When users Duplicate a file, it will be easier to give the duplicate a unique name. And when users activate Time Machine with a file selected, the system will now present that documents Versions rather than a more general view of all their backups.

[ View article on AppleInsider ]
post #2 of 96
Partitioning documents by applications they belong to had been proven to be foolish in Windows years ago. This smells like trying to monopolize document use.

Can we see more stupid ideas from Apple like this?

The company transformed radically from what I saw in 2004/05 when I joined bandwagon after dumping Windows and Linux.

Creating a cult out of technology corporation has never worked well for consumers. I have another proof now.

Oh and BTW smuggling agendas under cover of "better security" is no the best appraoch either. This does not have anything to do with better security. Those who know it will hack it soon one way or the other, but we will be living in strict and inflexible world sharing documents only the way Apple allows us.
post #3 of 96
It all looks good. Saving directly to the cloud is great. Ultimately I want less clicks, however. Its hard to design something that requires less clicks per use, yet requires little to no pre configuration such as in a simplified set-up, where everything is saved locally and duplicated to the cloud except certain app's files (200mb + PS files, for example)
post #4 of 96
Anyone using a mac in a business, large or small, will have hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of documents created by key applications. Sorting documents by applications would be insanely dumb. What has traditionally made the Mac great from the very beginning, in addition to the ease of creating documents, was the ease and flexibility of organizing documents. Each mac user could organize their world just the way they wanted it. If Apple has forgotten this already, I'm looking into the options for reincarnation.
post #5 of 96
this sounds as an amazing idea.. it would be so simple.

but,

what about those files that you can open with more than one program?
post #6 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

this sounds as an amazing idea.. it would be so simple.

but,

what about those files that you can open with more than one program?

Not an issue because every single file extension is only paired with one app as the default. So if your Mac has switched all .MP3s to open with QuickTime X instead of iTunes they will show up as QuickTime X apps. At least that's how I understand it.

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post #7 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

prevents rogue apps or malware from deleting, accessing or modifying data they are not authorized to use

So how are non-rogue apps allowed access to view, modify, or delete files from another application? How is authorization granted?

I'm asking because I really don't know.

Or are we heading down a path of application lock-in where only the application that created a file is allowed to work with it? On a limited device (ie, an iOS device) with a small number of files, it's a nice streamlined way to organize things. But on a computer, it seems constricting. I organize files by content (ie, 2011 taxes), not by file type or application.

Or are Macs no longer computers? Are they simply another applicance now like your blu-ray player or game console?
post #8 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciekskontakt View Post

Partitioning documents by applications they belong to had been proven to be foolish in Windows years ago. This smells like trying to monopolize document use.

Can we see more stupid ideas from Apple like this?

The company transformed radically from what I saw in 2004/05 when I joined bandwagon after dumping Windows and Linux.

Creating a cult out of technology corporation has never worked well for consumers. I have another proof now.

Oh and BTW smuggling agendas under cover of "better security" is no the best appraoch either. This does not have anything to do with better security. Those who know it will hack it soon one way or the other, but we will be living in strict and inflexible world sharing documents only the way Apple allows us.

Here we go, more concern-trolling. I'll take the Apple of 2012 over the Apple of 2004/2005 anyday- and so would pretty much anyone. And you're completely and utterly wrong about security and document sharing. The new settings WILL help people from installing malicious code and malware (which you can disable completely, and which does not have to be approved by Aple FYI) and you won't be losing access to local storage anytime soon. Concern-trolling based on nothing but sensational twisting of the facts.
post #9 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

this sounds as an amazing idea.. it would be so simple.

but,

what about those files that you can open with more than one program?

Exactly. Documents, particularly graphics, are rarely editable in only one app. Maybe the thinking is that most users don't have multiple graphics editors, multiple audio players, multiple word processors, etc., and so it just confuses them? Frighteningly, that's probably true.

But this one-app sandbox issue and the fact that you can't logically group things inside the sandbox (as mentioned above, business / real users will typically have hundreds to thousands of documents, and you tend to organize multiple types of files by project - in folders!) is a killer. I use Dropbox ALL the time in my small business - iCloud is totally useless for us. No way to build a logical hierarchy of mixed documents (which folders magically do today!), no way to share between users either (which Dropbox and various network file protocols do today!), etc. It's a huge step back, though apparently that's not what it's trying to solve.

Even just at a personal level it's pretty weak (want to share with my parents or brother? too bad...), though for a quick sync between desktop/phone/pad, I guess this would work. But I'd rather have the real filesystem, or at least a iCloud Documents folder that would get Dropbox treatment. Open File inside of apps could filter out document types they can't handle... of course, now it would look a lot like what works today, not the 1-click-but-doesn't-work "future". Ugh. \

At least it looks like that view is optional. Talk about finding a way to make machines useless to anyone who does real work though - hope they realize they better keep the filesystem visible in the future for non-iOS level users.
post #10 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

So how are non-rogue apps allowed access to view, modify, or delete files from another application? How is authorization granted?

I'm asking because I really don't know.

Or are we heading down a path of application lock-in where only the application that created a file is allowed to work with it? On a limited device (ie, an iOS device) with a small number of files, it's a nice streamlined way to organize things. But on a computer, it seems constricting. I organize files by content (ie, 2011 taxes), not by file type or application.

Or are Macs no longer computers? Are they simply another applicance now like your blu-ray player or game console?

The point is to keep apps from messing around with other apps files. The user can access the files and move them around if he/she wishes. Each file work within its own library of files and folders. When Pages create document then only Pages works with document unless the user move this document to another app like Word. This is how I believe it works.
post #11 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaporland View Post

last time I checked, opening files with the wrong app was not a big issue. how many people have problems opening files with the right program? zilch. this is a solution looking for a problem that does not exist.

if it ain't broke, don't fix it. maybe when steve died, the UI folks found his acid stash and started partaking?

blocking me off from manipulating the files on my computer the way i want to is a very bad idea.

pardon me if I dont want / need to store my data in Apple's cloud. why is apple jamming this iOS functionality up our a**es when it serves no useful purpose.

so continues the dumbing down / locking down of Mac OS X.

Lion = Vista.

Mountain Lion = wtf?!?!

Glad I still have the version of VMWare that lets me run 10.6 in 10.7...

Before all the fanbois start attacking, you really need to look at what's happening. apple's putting training wheels on OS X so nobody ever falls off and nobody ever leaves the neighborhood.

time to take some linux training....

Sounds like you found an acid stash yourself.

I'm curious, what part of On My Mac is confusing to you?

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #12 of 96
Is this concern trolling or simple ignorance of what's being shown?

If I'm working with a Pages document, the files are put on iCloud so that I can access them from another Mac or from my iPad via the cloud.

If I want to save or export the document for use with another app, I simply save it to a known location in the file system "On my Mac" instead.

There is no similarity with Microsoft and none what so ever with locking documents to a specific app out of some effort to monopolize anything.

Then end result is that users see the stuff they need to see, and don't have to understand the concept of a file system, just like users 30 years ago could stop memorizing different keyboard shortcuts specific to each app, and just like users 40 years ago didn't have to know assembly to use a computer.

Seriously, I think the people Apple hires to figure things out know more than a bunch of complaining curmudgeons on AppleInsider longing for 2005. How embarrassing.
post #13 of 96
Hmmm....

Do you believe that all the techie developers, Apple Employees, Power Users, etc. needs will be satisfied with the iOS file system [as we currently have access to it]?

Do you believe that all these users will be forced to stay on a back release of OS X -- just to have/use hierarchical folders?

Do you believe that users of Apple's latest Pro apps which use an hierarchical folder file system, will be forced to run on a back release of OS X?

Do you know that iOS has the same underlying hierarchical folder file system as OS X?

Think about it!


I believe one of the things that ML offers is greater ease of use to the typical, non-techie user.

One way to do that is to hide confusing capabilities by default.


That does not mean that the hidden capability cannot easily be exposed for use by the techie or power user.

I suppose, we could configure the Mac to boot in Cmd-S single-user mode, watch the screen scroll and then fsck, boot...

Or maybe we'll just have a System Preference setting that allows: Show Finder/HFS

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post #14 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaporland View Post

last time I checked, opening files with the wrong app was not a big issue. how many people have problems opening files with the right program? zilch. this is a solution looking for a problem that does not exist.

if it ain't broke, don't fix it. maybe when steve died, the UI folks found his acid stash and started partaking?

blocking me off from manipulating the files on my computer the way i want to is a very bad idea.

pardon me if I dont want / need to store my data in Apple's cloud. why is apple jamming this iOS functionality up our a**es when it serves no useful purpose.

so continues the dumbing down / locking down of Mac OS X.

Lion = Vista.

Mountain Lion = wtf?!?!

Glad I still have the version of VMWare that lets me run 10.6 in 10.7...

Before all the fanbois start attacking, you really need to look at what's happening. apple's putting training wheels on OS X so nobody ever falls off and nobody ever leaves the neighborhood.

time to take some linux training....

Please switch to linux and save us from your ranting drivel. Noone is forcing you to save a single file to the cloud. Also, this is a pre-developer beta, and you're assuming there will be absolutely no sorting options in the final build. If Apple followed your 'if it ain't broke dont fix it' mentality they would have been decimated years ago. Have fun continuing to run your main OS in virtual machines. Sounds like an absolute blast.

Apple has become massively successful precisely by ignoring the indignant, self righteous outrage of people like you. I can't even count how many times this situation has repeated itself, with every software and hardware release and decision they've made.
post #15 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaporland View Post

when I have about 350+ files, what then? page through them? where's the list view? last modified? how do i make new folders? drag them around?

All this is easy when there's five or six files, but right now I have more than a million files on my two hard drives.

it't not gonna look so good through the tiny porthole of mountain lion.

just accept that this is not going to work for the professional users. this reminds me of the old "At Ease" interface in Mac OS 7.6...

1) Why do you need 350+ files to access from your iPhone, Touch or iPad?

2) The various views are right where they have always been when you access files on your Mac.

3) Yes, you can place these files you upload to iCloud into Folders. However I have not been able to delete any folders I've created at this point.

4) You really need to access more than a million files on your two hard drives from your iPhone, Touch or Mac? A little more reality on your part would be a good thing.

5) I have no idea what you mean by a tiny porthole.

6) First of all, this is designed for the consumer that wants to have select files they can view and edit across devices with ease. No need to create PDFs and email first or some other usable by complex method. You can still do those so your "sky is falling" complaints that Apple has somehow removed other options is unjustified. Secondly, if you are a "professional" using a Mac that is connected to network shares then you'd just access all the items you want with On My Mac as it connects to Finder that also connects to your network which is exactly what "professionals" would use.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #16 of 96
What Soli said. Again. AGAIN! AGAIN!

Did everyone just forget how to read, on account of the indignation? YOU STILL HAVE ACCESS TO THE STANDARD FILE SYSTEM. Good lord.
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post #17 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

What Soli said. Again. AGAIN! AGAIN!

Did everyone just forget how to read, on account of the indignation? YOU STILL HAVE ACCESS TO THE STANDARD FILE SYSTEM. Good lord.

Next step: Back to iOS (from MacOSX):

allow the iOS user, when she is on the move AND HAPPENS TO THINK OF a document stored in her "on the Mac" file system, to browse that filesystem and to retrieve the file.

P.S., in response to those who don't understand that a document may need to be indeed accessible from different programs: there are situations where a document is created and edited by one application, but then serves as input, in unaltered form, to another program.
This should be simple to do, not with a convoluted export ("Share") command.
Same thing as above, you may only think of needing the document in another application, later, when you are on the move, on another iDevice.
post #18 of 96
Here's a little tidbit from tcp.co

Quote:
Well we got to know the next moggie in line for the Apple OS naming convention, Mountain Lion. We suppose the instant question is the operation of the legacy Final Cut Pro 7 with this version. QuickTime is included in the OS and surely Apple have learnt from the recent hurt that they should still look after their FCP7 users. Hopefully we will get a post from a developer saying that FCP7 works just fine.

An item of interest to us editors is AirPlay Mirroring which should be familiar to all iPhone users who play stills and movies out to their big screen TV via AppleTV. At the moment this only works with the desktop, Keynote and iMovie, but as you will see we have some interesting news about FCPX coming up soon.

But how can they do that... everyone knows that those are all different .mp4, .mov, .mp3 .aac files residing in hierarchal folders...

And, everybody knows that with ML:
-- there is no way to import files from a card reader or a file structure copied from a card and stored in the file system
-- there is no way to include any files except those created by the app
-- there is no way to navigate the file system to include the thousands of images, sounds, music, video clips we have stored in iTunes, Final Cut Effects, Sound Effects, Photos
-- then even if we could, we couldn't use the app output in another app like iTunes

Boy, a lot of people will be asking for refunds, on a lot of apps, once they install ML


Edit: Damn.. I had to reup my OS X developer subscription... I haven't received the activation email, so I can't dload ML and put an end to all this speculative shit!

... 'course I wouldn't be able to say anything about it...
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post #19 of 96
Could someone please explain to me why Apple has such a hatred for the hierarchical file system?

How is this app/file sandbox even remotely superior to the current file system?

I know, railing against change, I just like my change to be superior to the current method.
post #20 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanFruniken View Post

allow the iOS user, when she is on the move AND HAPPENS TO THINK OF a document stored in her "on the Mac" file system, to browse that filesystem and to retrieve the file.

You're talking about Back To My Mac from iOS. That might happen but for now there are plenty of apps that can VNC into your home PCs.

Quote:
P.S., in response to those who don't understand that a document may need to be indeed accessible from different programs: there are situations where a document is created and edited by one application, but then serves as input, in unaltered form, to another program.
This should be simple to do, not with a convoluted export ("Share") command.
Same thing as above, you may only think of needing the document in another application, later, when you are on the move, on another iDevice.

This isn't an issue. You don't choose Export to save to iCloud. In fact, if you export you have to save it locally, then you have to choose Edit » Open and drag it into iCloud to save a copy there for that app.

Note I said copy. You can save a new document to iCloud as the default location but if you save it to disk the first time then you'll have to copy it to iCloud, not move it. You can then delete the original and do all your editing via iCloud if you wish but the system is set up to keep local copies in place.

As for the Share command that's available for any iCloud or On My Mac items. It's simply highlighting file(s) and then choosing how you want to share it just like in iPhoto or iOS apps. It's the opposite of convoluted.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #21 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsmuse View Post

Could someone please explain to me why Apple has such a hatred for the hierarchical file system?

Could someone please explain to me why people think Apple has removed the hierarchical file system?

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #22 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciekskontakt View Post

Partitioning documents by applications they belong to had been proven to be foolish in Windows years ago. This smells like trying to monopolize document use.

Can we see more stupid ideas from Apple like this?

Giving users choices isn't stupid. If you don't like the iOS way, choose not to use it.

Hopefully this will swing the other way and we'll get a common library option in ios

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post #23 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsmuse View Post

Could someone please explain to me why Apple has such a hatred for the hierarchical file system?

How is this app/file sandbox even remotely superior to the current file system?

I know, railing against change, I just like my change to be superior to the current method.

I don't think Apple has anything against the hierarchical file system... they are just looking for a better solution -- one that handles a large number of files -- as well as a few files.

Remember, the GUI that Apple licensed from Xerox had a single window on the display... Apple experimented and found a better way.


There are ways in which Apple can resolve the sandbox/share file standoff.

1) apps could register with the system on the types of files they can handle and which they'd like access to

2) an app when creating a file could make it private, accessible RO, accessible RW, approval by app, passcode, etc..

The OS, then provides access to any files an app is allowed to see...

This would require some sort of file presentation (search, folders, smart collections, etc.) so the user could have easy access without burdensome navigation and knowledge of the file system.


I suspect Apple has some pretty competent people working on this and that will "do it right" when they deliver a solution.


MS seems to be creating a bastardized system of partially rewritten x86 Windows Explorer and Windows Desktop for WOA...


My bets are with Apple!
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post #24 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsmuse View Post

Could someone please explain to me why Apple has such a hatred for the hierarchical file system?

How is this app/file sandbox even remotely superior to the current file system?
.

Apple doesn't - the average consumer does - because they don't understand it. If not for Open Recent, Spotlight, and open dialog boxes defaulting to the last place, People would lose their files all the time. It's also why a lot of people save all their files on the desktop.

It's hard to believe but the hierarchical file system confuses a lot of people.

This sandbox makes it easier for novices to find their files. If you don't like it, nobody is forcing it on you.
post #25 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciekskontakt View Post

Partitioning documents by applications they belong to had been proven to be foolish in Windows years ago. This smells like trying to monopolize document use.

Can we see more stupid ideas from Apple like this?

The company transformed radically from what I saw in 2004/05 when I joined bandwagon after dumping Windows and Linux.

Creating a cult out of technology corporation has never worked well for consumers. I have another proof now.

Oh and BTW smuggling agendas under cover of "better security" is no the best appraoch either. This does not have anything to do with better security. Those who know it will hack it soon one way or the other, but we will be living in strict and inflexible world sharing documents only the way Apple allows us.

In my opinion everything you said there is wrong, but that's only my opinion.
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post #26 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

OS X Mountain Lion brings a new document handling experience to the Mac platform that offers an iOS-like, iCloud-based alternative to the conventional file system.

By the time of OSXI/Bobcat, the conventional file system will be a thing of the past on Macs. Or sooner.
post #27 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


6) First of all, this is designed for the consumer that wants to have select files they can view and edit across devices with ease. No need to create PDFs and email first or some other usable by complex method. You can still do those so your "sky is falling" complaints that Apple has somehow removed other options is unjustified. Secondly, if you are a "professional" using a Mac that is connected to network shares then you'd just access all the items you want with On My Mac as it connects to Finder that also connects to your network which is exactly what "professionals" would use.

So Finder should now be considered a "Pro App"?
post #28 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstep View Post

At least it looks like that view is optional. Talk about finding a way to make machines useless to anyone who does real work though - hope they realize they better keep the filesystem visible in the future for non-iOS level users.

You know they already took away the ability to view most of the filesystem with version 10.0. You can still see the system files if you are a professional and know a few shell commands.

As others have mentioned it is a terrible idea to display all of the same file types in the same window when you are trying to find one file in particular. Let's see I need to edit index.html. Oh golly, I have 300 of those. Sort of like if you did a search on that file name. It is better to look for the site name then the folder name and so forth. You will find the file you are looking for and not worry that you might accidentally open the wrong one. Of course which application is going to open html files. The browser? That won't work for editing them.

I think we need to wait to see how it all pans out. Clearly they won't release it as broken as I have just described it.

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post #29 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
OS X Mountain Lion brings a new document handling experience to the Mac platform that offers an iOS-like, iCloud-based alternative to the conventional file system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

By the time of OSXI/Bobcat, the conventional file system will be a thing of the past on Macs. Or sooner.

In Mountain Lion, Apple presents a new file dialog with two options: the conventional file system under "On My Mac," and an App Library, an iOS-like depiction of the app's own iCloud files, portrayed similar to iOS apps, with the same ability to be organized into "Folders."

RTFA... Read The Fuckin' Article!

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post #30 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

In Mountain Lion, Apple presents a new file dialog with two options: the conventional file system under "On My Mac," and an App Library, an iOS-like depiction of the app's own iCloud files, portrayed similar to iOS apps, with the same ability to be organized into "Folders."

RTFA... Read The Fuckin' Article!




Right. It is not going to happen yet. Not in Mountain Lion. I made that pretty clear, or so I thought.
post #31 of 96
I must be missing the part where this looks like a good idea. Why complicate the OS by adding a second system for saving documents? This only leads to confusion when looking for a file. This is one of the ways a desktop OS is not a mobile OS.
post #32 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

In Mountain Lion, Apple presents a new file dialog with two options: the conventional file system under "On My Mac," and an App Library, an iOS-like depiction of the app's own iCloud files, portrayed similar to iOS apps, with the same ability to be organized into "Folders."

RTFA... Read The Fuckin' Article!


I have never used iCloud so I really don't understand how it works. How many copies of a file are there? Is there one on each device as well as in iCloud which get synced whenever it is modified? I'm not sure how auto save, auto sync and iCloud interact. How does the iOS-like file display work if you are not connected to iCloud for some reason like no wifi or cell service? I wonder with ML do you see your local files in that new format or is that only for actual iCloud files?

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post #33 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post

I must be missing the part where this looks like a good idea. Why complicate the OS by adding a second system for saving documents? This only leads to confusion when looking for a file. This is one of the ways a desktop OS is not a mobile OS.

Some people in a household Share a common Mac. While some have needs for a robust file system -- others may not.

Just like you setup some users to not hide the dock containing the few apps they use, you could set them up to use a easy to understand iOS-like filesystem -- especially if it mirrors the file system on their iDevices.

Apple is very good at adding function while reducing complexity!

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post #34 of 96
These screens always look great in demos, but what does file management look like when you have several thousand files, with similar names and thumbnails, and no way to group in folders or list in detail view so you can read the whole filename and sort by name, date, etc.?

Sure, if you know exactly what you're looking for you can enter a few characters in the search box and usually find what you want. But this approach to file management doesn't work when you want to browse a large collection of files and get a sense of what's there.
post #35 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post

I must be missing the part where this looks like a good idea. Why complicate the OS by adding a second system for saving documents? This only leads to confusion when looking for a file. This is one of the ways a desktop OS is not a mobile OS.

You mean the complexity of making sure it's not seen as a replacement for the standard hierarchical system by giving a very distinct look and feel that can't be confused with Finder and looks very familiar to what you see on iOS?

You say it's too complicated that Apple offers a way to use files to be used across devices easily yet think it's less complicated than having to use Dropbox or Mail or iTunes with multiple copy/paste moves that will then have to be repeated to move the files back. That really makes sense to you?

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post #36 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Hmmm....

Do you believe that all the techie developers, Apple Employees, Power Users, etc. needs will be satisfied with the iOS file system [as we currently have access to it]?

Do you believe that all these users will be forced to stay on a back release of OS X -- just to have/use hierarchical folders?

Do you believe that users of Apple's latest Pro apps which use an hierarchical folder file system, will be forced to run on a back release of OS X?

Do you know that iOS has the same underlying hierarchical folder file system as OS X?

Think about it!


I believe one of the things that ML offers is greater ease of use to the typical, non-techie user.

One way to do that is to hide confusing capabilities by default.


That does not mean that the hidden capability cannot easily be exposed for use by the techie or power user.


I suppose, we could configure the Mac to boot in Cmd-S single-user mode, watch the screen scroll and then fsck, boot...

Or maybe we'll just have a System Preference setting that allows: Show Finder/HFS




This system is only easy for newbies when they're starting out and have a handful of files to browse through. Check back with those newbies months later when they've accumulated thousands of files and see how well they can find what they're looking for. If Apple feels that this is a better way to handle files they should demo the concept with more realistic file collections.

When you're working in the real world, you need to be able to group files of different types together based on the project at hand. It makes no sense to continuously have to hop across five different "collections" in search of the right combination of files you need. Folders and hierachical file systems may be confusing to beginners, but there's no other way to efficiently deal with files in real life.

Huge Apple proponent here. I "get" it. But I don't think their solution to file management is viable for getting any real work done.
post #37 of 96
I use so few of Apple work apps that I'll just keep on keeping on with Photo Mechanic, Lightroom, Word, PhotoShop, Toast, etc...and store my critical documents on DropBox so I can access and share what I want from where I want.
post #38 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Not an issue because every single file extension is only paired with one app as the default. So if your Mac has switched all .MP3s to open with QuickTime X instead of iTunes they will show up as QuickTime X apps. At least that's how I understand it.


Right, but what happens when you want to browse a collection of image or video files which require different apps depending on the file? I want to open PSD files in Photoshop but I expect to browse them in the same view as JPGs which open in Preview.

There's an easy way to open a file with different apps, but a file system that only shows files associated with a single app at a time is idiotic.
post #39 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsmuse View Post

Could someone please explain to me why Apple has such a hatred for the hierarchical file system?

How is this app/file sandbox even remotely superior to the current file system?

I know, railing against change, I just like my change to be superior to the current method.

Yeah, Apple has such a hatred for this system, that they have continued to include it in every single one of their desktop OS version, will be in the next version, and no doubt the ones after that for the forseable future. Providing an easily accessible and visible OPTION to save things to the cloud, which will then sync seamlessly and automatically to other devices means that they 'hate' the current system? Try to see 2 feet beyond your own nose, and realize not everyone uses and undertands computers like you do. I can see tis being infinitely useful for so many people I know.

Or are you saying that Apple hates the hierarchical file system because they don't include itn in their mobile OS? You mean, this same system that both major mobile competitors ALSO DON'T include? Last I checked neither Android nor Win7 phone included any type of filesystem visible to the user.

Next time you compose a post try to inject some rationality based on reality.
post #40 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I have never used iCloud so I really don't understand how it works. How many copies of a file are there? Is there one on each device as well as in iCloud which get synced whenever it is modified? I'm not sure how auto save, auto sync and iCloud interact. How does the iOS-like file display work if you are not connected to iCloud for some reason like no wifi or cell service? I wonder with ML do you see your local files in that new format or is that only for actual iCloud files?

I have only used iCloud for iTunes match, PhotoStream, mail...

I understand that there are/will be changes to the OSX file system and Apple and 3rd-part OSX apps that will allow you to save a file to iCloud as well as locally.

It is evolving -- so not everything is in place yet...

Here's an example:

Import a picture into iPhoto on your Mac, or take a picture on your iPhone or iPad... They all are uploaded to iCloud and appear (are accessible) a few minutes later on your ATV -- and all your other devices.

It is my understanding that versioning will be handled automatically by iCloud by recording changes only ala TimeMachine.

My download has started... So I can only talk about it for a little while longer.

"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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