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New York Times gets Gizmodo treatment from Apple after negative reports - Page 5

post #161 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post

Because Apple is #1 now. It's natural, not contrived, that they will draw the most attention. Also, what Apple has been doing is pretty common. Nokia has been doing audits for years. Apple is one of the better ones, but it is by no means alone, and frankly none of them are that great.

Oh, so "NOW" (as you say) this is an issue that matters. But in the days before Apple was "#1", foxconn workers could just go f@#k themselves?
You are really confused or a hypocrite.
This condition has always been there, long before Apple was anything at all. It's always been there. THAT is the real story. (That, and the fact that Apple is "one of the better ones" on this issue just as you say ) But that is not what is being reported.
The people working for Microsoft (foxconn) threatened suicide if working conditions did not improve for them. How is this not the front page newws on this issue?
post #162 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

The people working for Microsoft (foxconn) threatened suicide if working conditions did not improve for them. How is this not the front page newws on this issue?

Because no one cares about what Microsoft does. And that's the only reason.

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post #163 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by dacloo View Post

Because Steve went to India when he was young?
Get real.
You should read their contracts. Nothing Zen about Apple.

And you should read the biography, for starters.

Part 2.:

See palomine, quoted beow.
post #164 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

This just proves what I've been saying all along.

No, it doesn't. Unless the only thing you've been saying all along is that Apple doesn't want to invite the NYT to a press conference. Any other conclusion is speculative at best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

As a condition to be "exclusively" invited to their press event, Apple asks for favorable reviews and hype over its products. The more hype and coverage you generate with the word "apple" in your tags, the more likely you will be awarded a spot to gain access.

It's called marketing. What motivation would Apple (or any company, for that matter) have to invite a media outlet to a private press conference, if they didn't think it would be positive for them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

No one would dare say a bad thing about Apple now because they wield that heavy stick. Then again, that isnt quite surprising as they are bullies after all.

What "heavy stick" is that? Being invited to a press conference? What value is that to an objective journalistic outlet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Conflict of interest and little dose of moral hazard at hand folks.

Explain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

All those who say otherwise are in denial.

Proof? If none is required, then I assert you are in denial.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

If my statements were NOT true, then Apple would've continued to invite NY Times to their event.

Non-sequitir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

But, after this, that isn't so.

Whats funny is that, all of the media companies after the "bad presses" regarding antenna gate issues, iPhone 4 design release and now the workplace issues are ALL based on facts.

"Antenna Gate" - Loved the headline, no media hype there. Ignoring for a moment the fact that it was blown out of proportion by the "journalists", explain what so many of the 'affected' devices continue to work, error free (and without the bumper) despite this supposed fatal design flaw?

"iP4 design release" - How is this relevant to your argument in the least? A "journalist" knowingly took possession of stolen goods, and leaked industrial secrets. If anything it supports and gives legitimacy to Apple's stance on not engaging media when they believe the results may be unfavorable.

"workplace issues" - The biggest issue here is that Apple is being singled out by name in a patently sensationalist manner by the supposed "journalists". Again, supporting Apples selective invitations when dealing with the media.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Apple doesn't want to ruin its perfectly molded image of its self as this prevailing white knight that everyone (especially in this neck of the woods) thinks the company is.

Of course not, it's called public relations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

In short, it didn't want to face the truth. What happened after the aftermath of all three instances? Rubber covers were issued to consumers for the antenna gate,

A move that was more public relations than anything else. A prudent choice frankly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

more strict security policies were in place to prevent further leaks

A necessary self-defense against unscrupulous "journalists". This does not support you position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

and increased scrutiny on its third party OEM's.

What increase? The only increase has been in the "reporting" on this. There hasn't been any significant change in behavior on Apple's part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

None of this would've happened if the stuff that was reported were indeed false.

That conclusion is not logically supported by your statements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

The posts that I expect after this will determine who is truly delusional and those who are rational.

Have at it people.

On what basis can you make this claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Bad journalism?

How so?

Failure to report factual information in a fair an unbiased manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Because it reflects Apple in a negative way = "bad journalism"?

No, see above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

So you think the practices that Apple's third party OEM's are doing are perfectly legal and okay?

Not in all cases, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

That there is nothing immoral about it?

Debatable, and again not in all cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

How about I call you having bad citizenship?

Irrelevant. This doesn't even apply as a metaphor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

If you see something wrong, you go and fix it.

That is how civilizations expect of its citizens.

You claim to see the problem. Why haven't you fixed it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Those who turn a blind eye to that in the name of personal gain don't have to right to be called citizens.

Incorrect and irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Now in the face of globalization, we arent just citizens of certain countries of a "global" citizen now.

We all should act like one.

A novel ideal espoused by armchair activists. Unfortunately not practical when social, cultural, political and legal imperatives are at odds in disparate countries.
post #165 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by palomine View Post

Those complex and high context contracts are a reflection of what is required to even carry out a relationship with suppliers/customers et al. We live in a high context society whe every iota of terms and conditions are expected to be spelled out or NO DEAL.

Doesn't mean Apple can't work within the constraints of modern international business to try to do the right thing wherever they can and be ever mindful of its very important customers. While Apple can't commandeer the plant in China , they can offer educational classes and try to raise the general conditions, even though they don't own it.

It will be interesting to watch them be mindful into the future. For sure, they won't waste your time!

That's the wordmindful. I'm not 100 percent serious about the Zen thing, but I am about how mindfulnness of the customer and, deeply, mindful products and sourcing got into Apple's DNA. I'm trying to find an arresting way to show how Apple is post-corporate as far as ethics and level of exploitation goes.

How did this consciousness get into Apple's missionin contrast to the average tech company?
I can only say here that it's in the biography, and it has to do with Job's favorite book in his tripping days, both inner tripping and outer, to India. That would be Ram Dass's Be Here Now.

And IMO a true picture of Zen would see no inherent contradiction between business and philosophy, as long as the business aimed at enlightenment.
post #166 of 185
Last I checked, David Pogue worked for the NY Times. And I got most of my early info about Mountain Lion from Pogue's article posted early Thursday. So this A.I. article is demonstrably untrue.
post #167 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

Last I checked, David Pogue worked for the NY Times. And I got most of my early info about Mountain Lion from Pogue's article posted early Thursday. So this A.I. article is demonstrably untrue.

Pogue has something of a special status with Apple. HE, singularly, received Mountain Lion.

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post #168 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Pogue has something of a special status with Apple. HE, singularly, received Mountain Lion.

I don't recall Pogue saying he was one of the tech reviewers or describing the situation leading up to the special preview including but not limited to talking with Schiller. Plus his artcile came out quite a bit after other bloggers that were given a sneak peak.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #169 of 185
Well looks like the NY Times is on to something. i guess Apple has more to hide than they let on. Fox conn is the tip of the iceberg.
post #170 of 185
and as the Germans said "we were only baking bread in the ovens"
post #171 of 185
"The NYT could have written a piece about Chinese work conditions in general and pointed out that a large majority of the products Americans buy are made overseas, but instead they chose to single out Apple as the bad guys in order to get more traffic."

it's because Apple is the biggest manufacture now. Dell and HP were in china first taking advantage of the slave labor that was already there. Apple just joined the party in the race to the bottom that stated in 2001. Apple is not the forward thinking company it was in the 80s now its just another greedy Corp trying to make money anyway they know how. if its down and dirty they will go there. just ask any of the independent resellers Apples is shutting down every month.
and if you think Apple making PR over joining the Fair Labor Association seems like they doing something positive. Check out who funds the Fair Labor association. Every US company that wants to look good, kind of a conflict of interest. Its a sham. There is so much more to this story. its fun to watch greedy companies get their comeuppance.
post #172 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by sternapples53 View Post

"The NYT could have written a piece about Chinese work conditions in general and pointed out that a large majority of the products Americans buy are made overseas, but instead they chose to single out Apple as the bad guys in order to get more traffic."

it's because Apple is the biggest manufacture now. Dell and HP were in china first taking advantage of the slave labor that was already there. Apple just joined the party in the race to the bottom that stated in 2001. Apple is not the forward thinking company it was in the 80s now its just another greedy Corp trying to make money anyway they know how. if its down and dirty they will go there. just ask any of the independent resellers Apples is shutting down every month.
and if you think Apple making PR over joining the Fair Labor Association seems like they doing something positive. Check out who funds the Fair Labor association. Every US company that wants to look good, kind of a conflict of interest. Its a sham. There is so much more to this story. its fun to watch greedy companies get their comeuppance.

So Apple is evil and no matter what they do they are wrong and everyone else is right. Got it!

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #173 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by sternapples53 View Post

and as the Germans said "we were only baking bread in the ovens"

Well, there you go: Chinese manufacturing is much like the holocaust, in that bees! In my head! Millions of bees!
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #174 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by sternapples53 View Post

"The NYT could have written a piece about Chinese work conditions in general and pointed out that a large majority of the products Americans buy are made overseas, but instead they chose to single out Apple as the bad guys in order to get more traffic."

it's because Apple is the biggest manufacture now. Dell and HP were in china first taking advantage of the slave labor that was already there. Apple just joined the party in the race to the bottom that stated in 2001. Apple is not the forward thinking company it was in the 80s now its just another greedy Corp trying to make money anyway they know how. if its down and dirty they will go there. just ask any of the independent resellers Apples is shutting down every month.
and if you think Apple making PR over joining the Fair Labor Association seems like they doing something positive. Check out who funds the Fair Labor association. Every US company that wants to look good, kind of a conflict of interest. Its a sham. There is so much more to this story. its fun to watch greedy companies get their comeuppance.

I guess, but it's even funner to listen to complete lunatics rant on the internet.
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post #175 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcstarheel View Post

The trolls are out and they are being fed.

...being fed by DED, no less.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #176 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by sternapples53 View Post

and as the Germans said "we were only baking bread in the ovens"

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #177 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Cretin's Law
The faster and larger an online discussion grows, the probability of a civilized conversation based on the original topic approaches 0. (Check out Digg.com for examples of Cretin's Law)

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post #178 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by sternapples53 View Post

and as the Germans said "we were only baking bread in the ovens"

And with that single line, you guarantee that nothing you have said or will say can be taken in a serious light.

lol, bravo
post #179 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That's ironic since the quality of NYT articles suggests they're mostly written by children.

What a dumb comment.
post #180 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alann View Post

What a dumb comment.

What a brillant response¡ Care to clarify what is so dumb about my joke. I can see how you might not find it funny, but dumb?

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #181 of 185
I realize some people have some kind of reflexive distaste for the guy, but Gruber points out something kind of obvious that I don't think has been mentioned: Apple has a history of granting exclusive scoops to the WSJ.

Quote:
Erik Wemple of The Washington Post notes this exclusive Mountain Lion-announcement-day interview the WSJ scored with Tim Cook and somehow concludes that Apple is giving The New York Times reduced access because of the Timess iEconomy investigative reporting series. Problem is, The Wall Street Journal has been Apples favorite publication for exclusive leaks and interviews for years. For as long as I can recall, really. The Journal, for example, got the biggest exclusive in Apple history: the June 2009 leak that Steve Jobs had a liver transplant three months earlier.

Right? Don't recall anyone talking about how Apple was "punishing" the NYT when the WSJ got the big story on Steve's liver transplant.

But, amazingly, all it takes is one guy's opinion, an opinion that takes no mind of an established precedent and runs with a stock Post Hoc fallacy (because the Times was mean to Apple, an exclusive granted to the Wall Street Journal must be punishment) and we have a bunch of people going crazy with the "Apple is a big bully, a baby, they've jumped the shark, they're out of control, etc." nonsense.

Worse, Gruber goes on to note that Henry Blodget just made up some shit about how David Pogue, even thought he actually got a preview copy of ML, probably didn't you know, get a face to fact sit down like the Apple sycophants because, you know, you've got to figure that's how Apple rolls, on account of..... you know....... except it didn't happen that way:

Quote:
The NYTs gadget guru, David Pogue, did get a sneak-preview review copy of Apples new operating system for a week, which is another favor Apple PR gives to approved journalists. But he does not appear to have gotten access to Apples execs, the way John Gruber and the WSJ did. It would have been self-defeating for Apple PR to completely snub Pogue, who has his own following and who generally writes breathless reviews of Apple products. So Apples retaliation, in other words, appears to be cleverly subtle. Did we mention that Apples PR team is really good at this game?

By sheer coincidence, I can report that this is nonsense. When I left my briefing with Schiller last Wednesday in New York, waiting in the hallway for the next briefing was: David Pogue.

And so we get all these jackasses constantly claiming that the "fan boys" will excuse anything Apple does, while simultaneously getting completely hysterical over any random bit of web rumor, no matter how thinly sourced or easily refutable. You guys are awesome, really. Good job.
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post #182 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthropic View Post

It's such a pity Apple behaves so poorly, their childish corporate behaviour really detracts from what should be more news about their awesome products.

Yeah, too bad, if it wasn't a complete bunch of BS. The above story didn't happen. Apple gave David Pogue a private session, same as Gruber et al.

http://daringfireball.net/linked/201...to-conclusions

It's a pity everyone attacking Apple over this (or cheering them on!) is behaving so poorly, their childish ignorant insults really detracts from, you know, reality.
post #183 of 185
Daniel, are you planning to issue a retraction, or just an update, since the entire story is bogus. NY Times' David Pogue did get a private session with Apple execs about Mountain Lion.

http://daringfireball.net/linked/201...to-conclusions

Which is it: retraction or update?
post #184 of 185
Well, in fairness to Daniel, we might observe that he was working off some bait thrown in the water by Erik Wemple of The Washington Post. I don't blame him that much for getting sucked in. I'm a bit pissed at the NY Times myself.

No italics for them, that'll show 'em.
post #185 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

It's amazing how many of these "I use Apple products but..." posts we see here these days. "I'm not racist but..." sound familiar?

Are you seriously comparing criticism of your favourite tech company to racial discrimination? Seriously?

And that "but" has come about because of the mentality on AI that anybody who is critical of Apple must not be a user. So now anybody about to post anything critical has to categorically state they are a user.

But what more can you expect when you have people who actually think criticism of a tech company is comparable to real and genuine issues millions of human beings face everyday.
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