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Apple partner Foxconn raises Chinese worker wages as much as 25% - Page 3

post #81 of 119
2/17/12 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

Let me try to be conciliatory and say I think I can understand why people want to improve wages of poor people. They believe that by paying people more, it will help those people. To a very small extent I agree.

However, (in the same breath) we also say we should pay people in California $50k or whatever ot build iPhones, and let these Chinese people rot because they are paid so little.

In the final analysis, both arguments are identical I believe. People in a high wage environment should get our business and low wage environments should be shunned. "Fair trade coffee" is another case in point. They intentionally only buy coffee from high wage regions. Because... well I think it's certainly anti-poor worker.

I see your point. I don't agree with the people that want to yank all work back to the US. I believe in letting wage rates take their natural course, and if some work comes back to the US, so be it.

That fact remains that China hasn't allowed their wage rates to take their natural course. It takes public outcry for Foxconn workers to get a raise. When China controls its currency and keeps its wages low, it does harm to the Chinese people and harm to the other countries. I view it as economic terrorism. I am not saying we should attack them or threaten military action. My hope would be that IF there was pressure from US Companies or US Congress to curtail those unfair economic practices, China would stop them. Because if companies pull out of China, they will have a revolt on their hands. So if Chinese workers make more money through the natural progression of free and open enterprise, everyone wins in the end.
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post #82 of 119
2/17/12 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post

Since Apple makes about $400 gross profit per iPhone...
Why not bring those jobs back to the USA?


Yes yes, I know - tech, manufacturing, etc.
But think about it...

We put jobs in China because corp profit margins were thin, so they needed cheaper labor and massive volume to eek a profit.

Well guess what... Apple has high profit margins, high volumes... so can they afford a little more in labor costs? Would adding $1 to every iPhone be worth having a guy in the USA build it?

Just an idea...

First of all, your gross profit number if inaccurate. Secondly, it would be impossible to have everything in the iPhone be made in the US. Third, all you're really talking about is the finally construction of the device with various components which means you haven't even understood the issue. Finally, if Apple were to bring the entire iPhone production to the US the cost would be well above the $400 you mention so instead of Apple, a US company, paying taxes on their profit and selling good to US citizens that also pay taxes you end up with Apple losing money and US citizen buying products from vendors in China, Korea, etc. because the iPhone is no longer desirable at an excessive price. MNO subsidizes can only do so much. Do you really Apple, the US, US citizens, and the Chinese people that much?

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post #83 of 119
2/17/12 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post

Since Apple makes about $400 gross profit per iPhone...
Why not bring those jobs back to the USA?


Yes yes, I know - tech, manufacturing, etc.
But think about it...

We put jobs in China because corp profit margins were thin, so they needed cheaper labor and massive volume to eek a profit.

Well guess what... Apple has high profit margins, high volumes... so can they afford a little more in labor costs? Would adding $1 to every iPhone be worth having a guy in the USA build it?

Just an idea...

I'm not sure which # that you pulled out of your ass is more ridiculous- the $400 gross profit per phone figure, or the +$1 if Apple's manufacturing was magically moved to the US figure. Do you have sources for these numbers? Nevermind, it's easier to pull stuff out of your ass and be as sensational as possible, instead of trying to ascertain real numbers which would lead to the conclusion that your proposition is not as easy as you make it seem. $1 extra per phone.. Really now? You can't possibly be that grotesquely ignorant, so I'll chalk it up to purposeful dishonesty. Either way, maybe these quotes from the recent NYT article will give you a bit of insight:
Quote:
“The entire supply chain is in China now,” said another former high-ranking Apple executive. “You need a thousand rubber gaskets? That’s the factory next door. You need a million screws? That factory is a block away. You need that screw made a little bit different? It will take three hours.”

Quote:
Foxconn Technology has dozens of facilities in Asia and Eastern Europe, and in Mexico and Brazil, and it assembles an estimated 40 percent of the world’s consumer electronics for customers like Amazon, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Samsung and Sony.

“They could hire 3,000 people overnight,” said Jennifer Rigoni, who was Apple’s worldwide supply demand manager until 2010, but declined to discuss specifics of her work. “What U.S. plant can find 3,000 people overnight and convince them to live in dorms?”

Quote:
Another critical advantage for Apple was that China provided engineers at a scale the United States could not match. Apple’s executives had estimated that about 8,700 industrial engineers were needed to oversee and guide the 200,000 assembly-line workers eventually involved in manufacturing iPhones. The company’s analysts had forecast it would take as long as nine months to find that many qualified engineers in the United States.

In China, it took 15 days.

NYT estimates building in the US would add $65 expense to each phone. And then..

Quote:
But such calculations are, in many respects, meaningless because building the iPhone in the United States would demand much more than hiring Americans — it would require transforming the national and global economies. Apple executives believe there simply aren’t enough American workers with the skills the company needs or factories with sufficient speed and flexibility. Other companies that work with Apple, like Corning, also say they must go abroad.

The complexities, costs, logistics, and labour pool issues of manufacturing in the US, for a company like Apple needs such an unprecedented massive level of scale to satisfy it's products unmatched demand, simply makes the proposition impossible for now. This isn't something you can simply throw money at to solve.
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post #84 of 119
2/17/12 at 12:26pm
Congress doesn't need to do anything about China, this is basic economics in action. When your source of qualified workers starts to dry up you have to attract workers from other employers. Thus the increase in wages. Your point of view is basically non-sense, China is no longer a low cost labor supplier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rednival View Post

It is about time.

Since our Congress won't do anything about the Chinese it is good to see Apple finally taking a stand and putting some screws to Foxconn, even if it is in the face of public scrutiny. I guess CNN and New York Time deserve credit for bringing this to the public's attention.

CNN and the New York Times did nothing in this regard, wages have been increasing rapidly in China in the last few years. All I see here is a retention and recruitment move by Foxconn.
Quote:
And by the way, Apple knew. Avoiding the truth when you wouldn't like it is the same as knowing the truth and doing nothing about it, if you ask me.

Get a grip guy, Apple is in China for the same reason everybody else is, low wages and a concentrated infra structure. That move to China has effective raised the standard of living for thousands of workers. Could it be better in China, certainly but it could also be better in many factories in the USA. The focus on China is misplaced as workers everywhere can be exploited. Explotation Though isn't a problem with Foxconn.
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post #85 of 119
2/17/12 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednival View Post

It is about time.

Since our Congress won't do anything about the Chinese it is good to see Apple finally taking a stand and putting some screws to Foxconn, even if it is in the face of public scrutiny. I guess CNN and New York Time deserve credit for bringing this to the public's attention.

And by the way, Apple knew. Avoiding the truth when you wouldn't like it is the same as knowing the truth and doing nothing about it, if you ask me.

Are you nuts?
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post #86 of 119
2/17/12 at 12:27pm
This is absolutely preposterous I tell you!

If these ruddy lefties keep increasing wages to the point where greedy ingrate workers can actually raise a family and have enough food on the table, why, poor companies like Foxconn and Apple will have "no choice" but to shift these factory jobs overseas to countries where people are still willing to work for a living without complaining - to countries like the United States, for example
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post #87 of 119
2/17/12 at 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednival View Post

It is about time.

Since our Congress won't do anything about the Chinese it is good to see Apple finally taking a stand and putting some screws to Foxconn, even if it is in the face of public scrutiny. I guess CNN and New York Time deserve credit for bringing this to the public's attention.

And by the way, Apple knew. Avoiding the truth when you wouldn't like it is the same as knowing the truth and doing nothing about it, if you ask me.

I think I'll ask the Australian government to step in to ensure the workers who made the stuff I buy at Costco have access to decent medical care, paid for by the government, like we do here.

I heard that the slave labourers in American factories can lose everything if they get sick and that child labour is used in fast food stores.

This is a disgusting abuse of worker rights.

I'll carefully look at labels to make sure I don't buy US made stuff unless I am assured that the workers have medical cover, maybe American companies should be scrutinised to ensure that they provide this basic human need.

Micheal Moore deserves credit for bringing this to the world's attention.

See, it's all relative.

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post #88 of 119
2/17/12 at 12:36pm
First off Foxconn has a relationship with many companies, they would not raise wages at the request of any of those companies. Wages are a competitive issue. The general labor rate has been increasing rapidly in China to the point that many low end businesses have actually left China. This move by Foxconn is simply an effort to attract and retain the work force they need to support their business. A business that Apple plays a partial role in.

It really amazes me how little people actually know about what is happening in China. Gone are the days when it was the cheapest place on the planet for labor or a supplier of skilled labor. There is real competition now for quality work forces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Once again Apple changes things. I'm serious here. They could have ignored this and those iDevices would still sell, their policies and determination in this area is changing how Chinese manufacturing works, that's so small feat. I'm glad they didn't simply throw money at the problem either, because ultimately it's not Apple's fault China is the way it is.
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post #89 of 119
2/17/12 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beakernx01 View Post

Let's see how many of the news outlets that jumped all over Apple for practices that are the same or, more often are much worse at other manufacturers working for Dell, IBM, Acer, Toshiba, Samsung, M$, etc. rush to report this.

They are going to be in but of a pickle, way thinner margins than Apple but now they are also going to have to raise prices as the spot light moves from Apple to these other US firms.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #90 of 119
2/17/12 at 12:45pm
This 25% increase is just in line with the general increase in wages in China.
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post #91 of 119
2/17/12 at 12:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

The US Congress has no business telling China how much they should or shouldn't pay their workers. It's a moral issue, not a political one, and it's certainly not one more excuse for the US to police the world. Do yourself a favour and quit reading the NYT and watching CNN. It'll clear your head out.

I agree with everything you said, wholeheartedly.

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post #92 of 119
2/17/12 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

This was done because of all the hard work and dedication of the people who signed their names on Internet petitions.

Pat yourselves on the backs, folks; Apple would never have done this without you.

Three Stooges-esque "Why I oughtta" wind up as I say this.

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post #93 of 119
2/17/12 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

I think I'll ask the Australian government to step in to ensure the workers who made the stuff I buy at Costco have access to decent medical care, paid for by the government, like we do here.

I heard that the slave labourers in American factories can lose everything if they get sick.

This is a disgusting abuse of worker rights.

I'll carefully look at labels to make sure I don't buy US made stuff unless I am assured that the workers have medical cover, maybe American companies should be scrutinised to ensure that they provide this basic human need.

See, it's all relative.

OK, first off, I am not talking about US Congress ensuring that Chinese workers get paid a fair wage. I apologize for not making myself more clear.

I am talking about the growing concern in our country that China's practice of manipulating its currency keeps their wages and prices artificially low. This in turn does harm to the US (and Australia). If wages and prices are not allowed to increase as they naturally should, the whole argument for free-trade and the whole reason we have trade agreements is null and void. It is basic economics.

So I am saying that China isn't holding up their end of the bargain and our Congress is allowing China to violate those terms.

If Australia wanted to repeal their trade agreements with the US until we have socialized medicine, have at it. But as far as I know, we don't have an agreement with Australia promising government healthcare to all our citizens, so we haven't broken any agreement.

For the record: if we were to sign an agreement with China contingent on them promising a minimum wage to their citizens, I would oppose that and consider it overreaching.
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post #94 of 119
2/17/12 at 1:08pm
And by the way, I never knew until now how much anti-American sentiment exists on these forums. A lot is being read into my comments that I never said because you are assuming:
  1. I believe we should take military action against China
  2. I believe Congress can make decisions for the Chinese government

EDIT
Actually there is a 3rd: I didn't know how my words could be taken so I should have made myself more clear...
/EDIT

I am not sure if your bias is based on what you believe Americans think or what you've actually heard Americans say. I have a wife who grew up in a foreign country, so I would not be surprised at anything that an American has said to you.

I just want to say that, for the record, not all Americans are war mongering imperialists (but enough are it seems that way). That said, I believe our agreements with other countries should be followed or we should repeal them. It you disagree with me over that, so be it.
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post #95 of 119
2/17/12 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednival View Post

OK, first off, I am not talking about US Congress ensuring that Chinese workers get paid a fair wage. I apologize for not making myself more clear.

I am talking about the growing concern in our country that China's practice of manipulating its currency keeps their wages and prices artificially low. This in turn does harm to the US (and Australia). If wages and prices are not allowed to increase as they naturally should, the whole argument for free-trade and the whole reason we have trade agreements is null and void. It is basic economics.

So I am saying that China isn't holding up their end of the bargain and our Congress is allowing China to violate those terms.

If Australia wanted to repeal their trade agreements with the US until we have socialized medicine, have at it. But as far as I know, we don't have an agreement with Australia promising government healthcare to all our citizens, so we haven't broken any agreement.

For the record: if we were to sign an agreement with China contingent on them promising a minimum wage to their citizens, I would oppose that and consider it overreaching.

I've a good mind to start an online petition and deliver it to Costco, that will force the US to improve conditions for American workers.

How can you Americans have jobs that don't pay enough to afford housing?

How is it that fifteen year old child labourers can serve in your fast food stores?

P.S. I am being sarcastic with an arrow aimed squarely at the do gooders who, pumped up by bogus media reports think that their petty actions had anything to do with this.

Let me reiterate, IT'S ALL RELATIVE, different countries have different standards.

PPS keep buying stuff made in Chinese factories, Australia does quite well out of selling them rocks.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #96 of 119
2/17/12 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post

Since Apple makes about $400 gross profit per iPhone...
Why not bring those jobs back to the USA?


Yes yes, I know - tech, manufacturing, etc.
But think about it...

We put jobs in China because corp profit margins were thin, so they needed cheaper labor and massive volume to eek a profit.

Well guess what... Apple has high profit margins, high volumes... so can they afford a little more in labor costs? Would adding $1 to every iPhone be worth having a guy in the USA build it?

Just an idea...

Sure $1 more would be well worth it but you are a fool if you think that would be the difference in cost between an iPhone made in China and one made in the USA.
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post #97 of 119
2/17/12 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

P.S. I am being sarcastic with an arrow aimed squarely at the do gooders who, pumped up by bogus media reports think that their petty actions had anything to do with this.

I agree with you there. Too many people value themselves and their opinions far to much. Don't think for a moment I don't value your perspective. I just enjoy a good debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Let me reiterate, IT'S ALL RELATIVE, different countries have different standards.

PPS keep buying stuff made in Chinese factories, Australia does quite well out of selling them rocks.

I accept that countries have different cultures and standards and I am glad you feel Australia is doing well. But to your point, many in the US feel that the Chinese are not playing fair on the field of the world economy, nor do we feel the US economy is doing so well.

Maybe you feel we have unrealistic expectations or too high of standards, but a wise man once told me, "different countries have different standards".
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post #98 of 119
2/17/12 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

This was done because of all the hard work and dedication of the people who signed their names on Internet petitions.

Pat yourselves on the backs, folks; Apple would never have done this without you.

Three Stooges-esque "Why I oughtta" wind up as I say this.

LOL. Whew, I'm sure clicking "like" on some online petition was really "hard work." I hope they didn't pull a muscle or something.
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post #99 of 119
2/17/12 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic View Post

Sure $1 more would be well worth it but you are a fool if you think that would be the difference in cost between an iPhone made in China and one made in the USA.

Quit being SO realistic...oh wait...nevermind.
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post #100 of 119
2/17/12 at 1:46pm
I wonder if anyone calling for Apple to manufacture their goods in the US is really grasping the scope of operations in China?

What you're calling for is for Apple to build a Detroit from scratch, in a location well served by bulk transit, figure out a way to keep hundreds of thousands of workers housed and in the vicinity, figure out a way to get tens of thousands of engineers and supervisorial positions filled, probably meaning embarking on a massively ambitious training program (which means also creating some kind of Apple college with a campus the size of many state schools), either establish extremely long supply chains for a host of parts or simply build up another city's worth of suppliers that are entirely Apple owned and operated (with and concomitant sinking of enormous capital costs that would probably empty Apple's famously large cash hoards) and then go to market with products that are significantly more expensive than the competition.

When you say that "Apple can certainly afford it" what you're saying is that they should spend every cent they have to create a system that insures they wouldn't be able to afford much of anything ever again.

Just because Apple is extremely profitable it doesn't therefore make sense that we should call on them to single-handedly remake a significant chunk of the American economy and undo 50 years of globalization and loss of manufacturing jobs. It's like expecting someone to regrow a rainforest in a desert that used to be a tropical region before weather patterns shifted (and which of course everyone remembers fondly): it can be done, but the cost of replacing all of the interconnections with an environment that doesn't exist is prohibitive, and amounts to an enormous, self-sufficient bubble world that will require fantastically expensive life-support forever.
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post #101 of 119
2/17/12 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Except all they do is raise prices for domestic customers of foreign products.

Bad move.

I never said that they were a good move.
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post #102 of 119
2/17/12 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I wonder if anyone calling for Apple to manufacture their goods in the US is really grasping the scope of operations in China?

What you're calling for is for Apple to build a Detroit from scratch, in a location well served by bulk transit, figure out a way to keep hundreds of thousands of workers housed and in the vicinity, figure out a way to get tens of thousands of engineers and supervisorial positions filled, probably meaning embarking on a massively ambitious training program (which means also creating some kind of Apple college with a campus the size of many state schools), either establish extremely long supply chains for a host of parts or simply build up another city's worth of suppliers that are entirely Apple owned and operated (with and concomitant sinking of enormous capital costs that would probably empty Apple's famously large cash hoards) and then go to market with products that are significantly more expensive than the competition.

When you say that "Apple can certainly afford it" what you're saying is that they should spend every cent they have to create a system that insures they wouldn't be able to afford much of anything ever again.

Just because Apple is extremely profitable it doesn't therefore make sense that we should call on them to single-handedly remake a significant chunk of the American economy and undo 50 years of globalization and loss of manufacturing jobs. It's like expecting someone to regrow a rainforest in a desert that used to be a tropical region before weather patterns shifted (and which of course everyone remembers fondly): it can be done, but the cost of replacing all of the interconnections with an environment that doesn't exist is prohibitive, and amounts to an enormous, self-sufficient bubble world that will require fantastically expensive life-support forever.

This is, in large part, a replay of the Nike situation in 2000 spurred on by Naomi Klein and her book No Logo. Nike also refuted claims of sweat shops, etc., and pointed out where Klein was exaggerating the situation. In the end, Nike did change its policies, along with various other companies in the garment industry.

All to say, while I agree that this spotlight on Apple is not completely fair and arguably unreasonable, unreasonable tactics are often part and parcel of evolution in the world.
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post #103 of 119
2/17/12 at 2:22pm
All this controversy stemming from Foxconn would not have happened if Apple wasn't pushing its suppliers to cut costs at all cost (pun intended).

From the articles I've read about the top OEM suppliers to Apple, they mention that they hardly make any profits fulfilling Apple extreme request to meet its cost estimates.

Therefore, in order to keep the business account viable, the OEM's go to extreme measures to break a profit, disregarding work condition laws and standards while causing

many deaths either by accidents or voluntary suicides.

The culprit of the problem: Apple



People who support Apple's current business practices should be ashamed of being their fans.

If they really are Apple fans, they should raise these types of issues to get them fixed.

Become a fan of a company who supports ethical business practices and not a company that is hell bent on turning a profit at all cost.

You all have the power to change the outlook of a company and stand head proud of your accomplishments.

Go do your thing.

P.S. Tell them to spent some of their billions in the bank to build a god damn factory in the US while you are at it.

That way they will be contributing to the GDP of the US and not to COMMUNIST China.

Preferably in Texas.

Austin to be more exact.

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post #104 of 119
2/17/12 at 2:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Apple, a US company, paying taxes on their profit and selling good to US citizens that also pay taxes

Erm.. you mean paying taxes on the money that they couldn't funnel out of the USA?
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post #105 of 119
2/17/12 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

All this controversy stemming from Foxconn would not have happened if Apple wasn't pushing its suppliers to cut costs at all cost (pun intended).

From the articles I've read about the top OEM suppliers to Apple, they mention that they hardly make any profits fulfilling Apple extreme request to meet its cost estimates.

Therefore, in order to keep the business account viable, the OEM's go to extreme measures to break a profit, disregarding work condition laws and standards while causing

many deaths either by accidents or voluntary suicides.

The culprit of the problem: Apple



People who support Apple's current business practices should be ashamed of being their fans.

If they really are Apple fans, they should raise these types of issues to get them fixed.

Become a fan of a company who supports ethical business practices and not a company that is hell bent on turning a profit at all cost.

You all have the power to change the outlook of a company and stand head proud of your accomplishments.

Go do your thing.

P.S. Tell them to spent some of their billions in the bank to build a god damn factory in the US while you are at it.

That way they will be contributing to the GDP of the US and not to COMMUNIST China.

Preferably in Texas.

Austin to be more exact.

You do have a penchant for getting every fact wrong. Impressive.
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post #106 of 119
2/17/12 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednival View Post

I actually agree with you. I don't really like the NYT or CNN. I don't think Congress has any business telling a country what wages they pay and I NEVER said that.

Our congress DOES have the power to imposes taxes on companies that do business in China or to undo trade agreements if we feel they that country is engaging in unfair, unsafe, or immoral trade and labor.

THAT is something I think our government should seriously consider. You can disagree, but I think that Chinese labor and economic policy is harming the world more than Iran's nuclear program is. But all world governments will continue to ignore this because most of them (including the US) depend on China to run their MASSIVE deficits.

The real deal here is that China was admitted into the WTO (World Trade Organization) despite their currency manipulation. Remember, it isn't the US Dollar that is pegged to the RMB.

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post #107 of 119
2/17/12 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednival View Post

I see your point. I don't agree with the people that want to yank all work back to the US. I believe in letting wage rates take their natural course, and if some work comes back to the US, so be it.

That fact remains that China hasn't allowed their wage rates to take their natural course. It takes public outcry for Foxconn workers to get a raise. When China controls its currency and keeps its wages low, it does harm to the Chinese people and harm to the other countries. I view it as economic terrorism. I am not saying we should attack them or threaten military action. My hope would be that IF there was pressure from US Companies or US Congress to curtail those unfair economic practices, China would stop them. Because if companies pull out of China, they will have a revolt on their hands. So if Chinese workers make more money through the natural progression of free and open enterprise, everyone wins in the end.

Actually, Foxconn is a Taiwanese company and the people of Taiwan do not consider themselves Chinese... at all. They would be offended at such a suggestion.

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post #108 of 119
2/17/12 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

NYT estimates building in the US would add $65 expense to each phone.

Yes, suggestions that the US can currently compete on a level playing field with China are coming from grossly uninformed individuals.

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post #109 of 119
2/17/12 at 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Yes, suggestions that the US can currently compete on a level playing field with China are coming from grossly uninformed individuals.

... but Apple can afford to do it and even if the other tech companies don't bring, or can't afford to bring, jobs back to America, Apple should do it on principal.

</s>
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post #110 of 119
2/17/12 at 10:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

You do have a penchant for getting every fact wrong. Impressive.

You have a penchant for not proving fact "wrong".

Prove that it is wrong. I'll be waiting for a reply from you.

I know you cant so here is proof that I was right

http://9to5mac.com/2011/08/18/apple-...ly-50-percent/

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #111 of 119
2/18/12 at 12:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... but Apple can afford to do it and even if the other tech companies don't bring, or can't afford to bring, jobs back to America, Apple should do it on principal.

</s>

Really? Apple have up to 100 billion in the bank, there is no way that is anywhere near enough to build the infrastructure needed, train the necessary engineers and management, relocate them to a suitable area, buy the machinery and robotics necessary and then deal with then import all the manufactured chips, glass, electronics and plastics or manufacture them somewhere close. Then pay for the considerably higher salaries.

The NYT were not even close to being only ridiculously way out with their estimate.
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post #112 of 119
2/18/12 at 1:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... but Apple can afford to do it and even if the other tech companies don't bring, or can't afford to bring, jobs back to America, Apple should do it on principal.

</s>

Whilst I have a lot of sympathy for your position we must remember that Apple, MS, et al are Multi-National Enterprises. Although their head quarters may be US based they transcend national boundaries and ultimately their main commitment is to the shareholders who have invested in them.

I doubt that Apple could develop the requisite infrastructure on their own but it could be done with government assistance and or through collaboration with other large firms. This could represent a post-Fordist move to Just In Time model. If it worked it would become "Silicon Vally 2".

A main stumbling block would the existing tax laws, at the moment MNEs actively over or under inflate component prices in order to take advantage of tax differentials between nation states. All MNEs currently "hide" money abroad to avoid taxes (as is evidenced by Apple and other demanding tax breaks as an incentive to repatriate monies).

The longer term global ramifications would be very interesting, namely a stronger US economy and relatively weaker Chinese one. I am not a "fan" of either government but I would much rather be a minion of the USA than China.
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post #113 of 119
2/18/12 at 1:37am
Guys, he wrote </s> which means he's been sarcastic, though that's the colloquial term whereas satirical or ironic is actually more accurate. Welcome to the internet.

"Goodbyeee…"

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"Goodbyeee…"

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post #114 of 119
2/18/12 at 2:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post

Whilst I have a lot of sympathy for your position we must remember that Apple, MS, et al are Multi-National Enterprises. Although their head quarters may be US based they transcend national boundaries and ultimately their main commitment is to the shareholders who have invested in them.

I doubt that Apple could develop the requisite infrastructure on their own but it could be done with government assistance and or through collaboration with other large firms. This could represent a post-Fordist move to Just In Time model. If it worked it would become "Silicon Vally 2".

A main stumbling block would the existing tax laws, at the moment MNEs actively over or under inflate component prices in order to take advantage of tax differentials between nation states. All MNEs currently "hide" money abroad to avoid taxes (as is evidenced by Apple and other demanding tax breaks as an incentive to repatriate monies).

The longer term global ramifications would be very interesting, namely a stronger US economy and relatively weaker Chinese one. I am not a "fan" of either government but I would much rather be a minion of the USA than China.

You did rather spectacularly miss that sarcastic tag, didn't you?
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post #115 of 119
2/18/12 at 3:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

You did rather spectacularly miss that sarcastic tag, didn't you?

yes I did

I think I was focusing on the reply to his point, silly me
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post #116 of 119
2/18/12 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Plus free room and board, medical, counseling...

And even outside of the factory, a bowl of noodles costs USD$0.25.

And the other locals not working at Foxconn? Some of them subsist, working full time, on about $100. And they don't starve either.


There's free room and board, medical and counseling in jail too.
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post #117 of 119
2/18/12 at 1:18pm
Pay is only one factor in employment. Working conditions, hours worked, pleasant co-workers, facility amenities, breaks, etc etc are all factors to consider.

They could be paid $250 a WEEK and still be burned out by the boring, repetitive work with few breaks and no opportunity to decompress. After up to 16 hours a day of working, they go to the barracks and sleep. People need to rest. People are not robots.

I once spoke with a co-worker who used to work in one of those post office mail processing centers and asked him why workers go postal. He stated that it was the boring repetitive work that never ends. The mail just keeps coming and coming and coming. People just mentally crack. Consider that in the US, there is a social welfare system. A person can count on unemployment and food stamps, if necessary. So no work does not necessarily mean starving. Over there, there no such welfare system. If one doesn't work, they could starve. That only adds to the stress of staying in a bad employment situation.

The comments that state those workers can just quit if they don't like working there are just naive and lack an understanding of the bigger picture.

If you think that $250 a MONTH is a lot to live on in China. Consider this. The Chinese economy is booming, that breeds inflation. The price of everything is rising fast.
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post #118 of 119
10/3/12 at 1:38am

Why dose  Apple just pay the chiness workers the same wag as the US worker . we have a wag in Australia that give worker the money to live a good life, if you smart with your money . It dose not matter who you ,you have the right to live a good life. We need to look at injustes in the way the third  world people are payed .we may find that  all of us in the same place one day. If all the money go to one level of people it well become  worthless to those at the work with the nuts and bolts the real worker . IS  apple selling cheeper or are shardholders picking it up? sharpies2

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post #119 of 119
10/3/12 at 3:23am
Originally Posted by sharpies2 View Post
Why dose  Apple just pay the chiness workers the same wag as the US worker .

 

China ≠ United States.

 

It's just that simple.

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