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Apple ends physical media OS distribution with Mountain Lion - Page 3

post #81 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

Don't agree with Apple on this one. Really how much effort would be to make it available on disk, even if only by post.

A lot more than offering by download. Discs are dead. What good are discs when your computer won't have an optical drive in which to put them?

Quote:
reinforces the belief that Apple computers are only for the rich elite of this world.

Hence the USB drive last time and why there'll probably be a USB drive this time.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #82 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post


Sigh. You like to NOT have physical objects. Fine, I'll try not to ridicule you for that attitude. Others have very good reason to NOT want to hassle with digital distribution, but you seem to have a problem with that and think everyone should think just like you. Guess what? Everyone is not you, nor do they have the same set of needs, restrictions, lifestyle, or infrastructure. Try thinking outside your own frame of reference before making smartass comments.

Think about what Apple represents, and how their product philosophy has been since Steve returned to Apple. This isn't about my frame of reference, and so far, everyone's pet theories have been debunked by the posters on this forum that know how to use computers. This is about a minority wanting a SKU to exist so that said user doesn't have to drag and drop a disc image to a thumb drive. There are some folks that desperately want iPod classic to stick around, optical drives to remain onboard their Macs and for ethernet to find its way to iPad. All of these scenarios could potentially evoke some manner of logical reasoning for their existence, if not minuscule in their own right. This particular stance, however, has no such merit. I am curious which new Mountain Lion features these hypothetical victims of dial-up are most excited to not be able to use, after successfully updating their Mac using a sleek DVD-ROM.
post #83 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

Don't agree with Apple on this one. Really how much effort would be to make it available on disk, even if only by post. Broadband internet is nowhere near universally available around the world. I have friends who are currently working in Africa. Many of those countries have little or no broadband access outside the business district. Once again this just reinforces the belief that Apple computers are only for the rich elite of this world.

Then send them a DVD or flash drive with the OS on it.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #84 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Oh yeah, you're oddly literal about everything.



I went to the intercity website, if I book early enough I can get a $1 trip, but I can't see any mention of their aquatic services. And I'm not sure I would want to ride those boats across the tasman.
post #85 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDave View Post

I suspect you're being sarcastic but there are still some people with no access to broadband who are also quite some distance from any Apple store. I guess since it's such a small percentage, Apple doesn't care. It's too much trouble to make a few DVDs or USB drives.

Apple Stores maybe a long drive away, but usually there is a McDonalds close by.

(And yes, I have used McDonalds to download OSX updates).
post #86 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

Don't agree with Apple on this one. Really how much effort would be to make it available on disk, even if only by post. Broadband internet is nowhere near universally available around the world. I have friends who are currently working in Africa. Many of those countries have little or no broadband access outside the business district. Once again this just reinforces the belief that Apple computers are only for the rich elite of this world.

I was on the edge of the Sahara 2 years ago, the night Michael Jackson died in fact. How did I know that? We found internet access that evening.

Wasn't fast though. But then whilst I was in Africa - updating my Mac's software wasn't exactly top of my priorities.

There are lots of things that aren't available in Africa - electricity, mobile phone coverage, water, proper toilets, etc. I would say 'internet access' is low on the 'must have' lists.
post #87 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It's not a hack and not unsupported.

And what's with this crap about "proper install media". It's amazing you guys take the time to post about what you perceive as an impenetrable problem but can't take a second to actually find a solutions.

You expect IT guys to spend time on a proper solution for the users?

All they care about is if they will be able to restrict everything from the users...
post #88 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by igorleandro View Post

As long as they still provide a .dmg that we can restore to another partition / external drive / pen drive / you name it, I'm totally fine with that.

I want a bootable installation source that makes it possible to set up a drive before installing. If you have problems in some location where broadband is not available, you need a workable solution.

Not to Apple: Most locations in the world do not have broadband Internet.
post #89 of 110
For years I made a practice of buying bargain priced first run pre-viewed DVDs at Blockbuster. Still do, but so many BB locations have closed. Target used to have a nice selection of new DVDs at reasonable prices, but they have recently dropped the number of SKUs. Wal-Mart has new DVDs in $5 bins and on budget racks. I have several hundred DVDs and I watch every one of them on an average 15 month cycle.

Whether the media is DVD or BluRay, the one thing you get that is not available on a download or a stream is the special features. This makes it well worth having optical and the price is the same. (Storage costs for downloaded content is something else entirely.)

One thing I never have to worry about is having to deal with multiple multi-terabyte drives on which to store this content, nor do I have to double that number of drives in order to back up that data, and nor do I have to worry about expensive JBOD or RAID enclosures to hold all those piles and piles of drives. And I do not have to worry about the fact that every single hard drive is guaranteed to die sooner or later. Every drive will die.

I have DVDs going back a good 15 years and every one of them is in pristine condition. Most I watch on my 27" monitor but they also work on my flat panel TV. Best of both worlds.
post #90 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by TYancy View Post

Whether the media is DVD or BluRay, the one thing you get that is not available on a download or a stream is the special features.

iTunes Extras.

Quote:
And I do not have to worry about the fact that every single hard drive is guaranteed to die sooner or later. Every drive will die.

Right, you just have to worry about the fact that every single disc will eventually be unreadable due to age or a single scratch.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #91 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman0 View Post

There are lots of things that aren't available in Africa - electricity, mobile phone coverage, water, proper toilets, etc. I would say 'internet access' is low on the 'must have' lists.

This shows how little you know. Maybe you shouldn't believe everything you see on Fox News.

Mobile phone coverage/useage is widespread in many African countries, especially in rural areas. Where I was working in Kenya the government didn't have the funds to roll out fixed line telecoms throughout the country so when mobile came along it was seen as an opportunity to provide affordable widespread access to telecoms through mobile phones. The phone companies paid for the infrastructure so it didn't cost the government anything. In fact mobile phone adoption is higher in Kenya than it is in many western countries. However becuase they don't have a fixed line network they obviously don't have broadband in many areas outside the main cities.

Having said all that I suspect these people will continue to do what they have always done - just buy a Windows PC instead. They're half the price and don't require an internet connection.
post #92 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Then send them a DVD or flash drive with the OS on it.

That would be illegal as you well know.
post #93 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

A lot more than offering by download. Discs are dead. What good are discs when your computer won't have an optical drive in which to put them?

Hence the USB drive last time and why there'll probably be a USB drive this time.

I use the optical disk mostly for ripping CDs into iTunes and installing software from disk. I ditched my home phone line a while ago and now just use mobile broadband. I prefer not to download too much as it eats up my data allowance very quickly.

If they do ditch the internal optical disk drive they will have to keep the external superdrive on sale for people like me. Otherwise I would have no option but to switch back to a PC and I suspect a lot of others would have to do the same.
post #94 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

I use the optical disk mostly for ripping CDs into iTunes and installing software from disk. I ditched my home phone line a while ago and now just use mobile broadband. I prefer not to download too much as it eats up my data allowance very quickly.

If they do ditch the internal optical disk drive they will have to keep the external superdrive on sale for people like me. Otherwise I would have no option but to switch back to a PC and I suspect a lot of others would have to do the same.

1) What new software are your buying that only comes on a CD/DVD? AOL trials?

2) Apple doesn't have to sell the external SuperDrive for you to have an external optical drive. You can buy number of USB optical drives. You can even buy them at a lower price and at faster read/write times if you get a larger size. Also, VLC 2.0 has been released with experimental Blu-ray playback which would save those form first having to use MakeMKV to convert an AAC protected BRD.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #95 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlink View Post

So how do I update the 10 users in my office? Download it 10 times? (We're still on Snow Leopard.)

You can install from a Mac that already has the recovery partition, so no need to download every time. There is still some work to be done to adjust to these changes but certainly nothing worth holding up such a change.
post #96 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) What new software are your buying that only comes on a CD/DVD? AOL trials?

2) Apple doesn't have to sell the external SuperDrive for you to have an external optical drive. You can buy number of USB optical drives. You can even buy them at a lower price and at faster read/write times if you get a larger size. Also, VLC 2.0 has been released with experimental Blu-ray playback which would save those form first having to use MakeMKV to convert an AAC protected BRD.

I don't want to be forced to download software to use a Mac. As long as there's an external option then I don't mind so much if they ditch the internal optical drive. Assuming they also switch to SSD then I'll need an external hard drive and an external optical disk drive. It's not a very elegant solution but I could live with that I guess. Seems like if you don't have fast unlimited broadband the Mac is not for you anymore.
post #97 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

I don't want to be forced to download software to use a Mac.

You're not

Quote:
Assuming they also switch to SSD then I'll need an external hard drive

Why?

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #98 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Even if you don't do your due diligence as a "techs" to create a bootable installer as a backup they have 1) their Recovery HD which will repair and reinstall the OS, or if you've installed a new drive they have 2) the network bootable firmware that will install the OS from Apple's servers.

After upgrading to 10.7.0 I did test the Internet Recovery option and found out that the installer can only connect to a WiFi network that has DHCP enabled. Don't know if Apple has updated the installer so static IP can be used, but it is something to take into account. And from reading some of the posts in this thread might be usefull info for some - LOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash-reverse View Post

I do though like the OS X thumb drive. An iconic design in itself.

I agree, I've never seen a flat USB stick like that before. Some folks also bought the 4GB iPhone, just for that same iconic reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

But will AirPlay Mirroring require an AppleID, like HomeSharing? I was all excited about some of the potential there, but not going to screw around with AppleID crap.

Just found a wonderful post on Apple's support site about the pain of requiring an AppleID just to share stuff on your own network.

You do know that this is not a decision made by Apple but actually comes from the record companies? They also had the 1-iPod limit when the iTunes Music Store launched, and took both Steve Jobs and Eddie Cue(?) to convince the record companies that people wanted to listen to their music on more than one iPod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

I use the optical disk mostly for ripping CDs into iTunes and installing software from disk. I ditched my home phone line a while ago and now just use mobile broadband. I prefer not to download too much as it eats up my data allowance very quickly.

If they do ditch the internal optical disk drive they will have to keep the external superdrive on sale for people like me. Otherwise I would have no option but to switch back to a PC and I suspect a lot of others would have to do the same.

Wow! Dropping your landline in favor of mobile broadband? That's a risky thing to do, I'd say. Even if mobile broadband becomes cheaper and faster, I wouldn't want to torrent something over mobile. YMMV, but what are you saving, £ 10 a month?

I doubt people will move back to Windows because Macs won't have an ODD anymore. Besides, I believe there's even a Windows Utility fom Apple to share a Windows ODD, so you can install software over the air. Sorry for not providing a link; typing on an iPad and don't want to switch tabs, even though I copy text before hitting submit.
I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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post #99 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

After upgrading to 10.7.0 I did test the Internet Recovery option and found out that the installer can only connect to a WiFi network that has DHCP enabled.

I just checked with ML's Recovery HD and saw nothing that would let you put in a default IP and subnet mask. It won't auto config? What about plugging in directly with ethernet? I wonder if this is an issue since DCHP is so common.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #100 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I just checked with ML's Recovery HD and saw nothing that would let you put in a default IP and subnet mask. It won't auto config? What about plugging in directly with ethernet? I wonder if this is an issue since DCHP is so common.

Don't you sleep?

Yes, it does 'autoconfig' i.e. it requires DHCP on your WiFi router/device. I just checked and it won't let me enter a static IP. Confirmed by AppleKB

"Lion Recovery requires that DHCP be enabled on your chosen Wi-Fi or ethernet network, If you bought Lion from the Mac App Store, you will be prompted to enter the Apple ID and password you used to purchase Lion."

It does give you the option to enter the name of a hidden SSID, which wasn't the 'before': can't remember which version didn't allow this, but at least this works in 10.7.3

Ethernet cable works, but also requires DHCP. Although in Recovery Mode you can open the Terminal, giving you access to, well, the world.

Came across this weird thing on MR:

error "2100f" was reported when i had my 1st and 2nd DNS server setting set to use openDNS in the router.

error "2002f" was reported when i had DHCP forwarder enabled on the router.

the solution was simple:

1 - I had to set the static DNS servers to google's DNS IP addresses instead of openDNS.

2 - I Had to enable "DNSmasq for DHCP" & "DNSmasq for DNS"
I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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post #101 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Wow! Dropping your landline in favor of mobile broadband? That's a risky thing to do, I'd say. Even if mobile broadband becomes cheaper and faster, I wouldn't want to torrent something over mobile. YMMV, but what are you saving, £ 10 a month?

A lot of people are doing this in the UK now. My mobile network plan includes mobile broadband anyway so I just tether my iPhone to my iPad and MBP to get calls and broadband for £25/mth. I would have to do this anyway so why pay for another landline I wouldn't use then the cost of fixed line broadband on top. I probably save at least £30/mth.

I travel a lot so mobile broadband and public wifi are a much better option for me. However I know a lot of people who live in rented accomodation or students are also doing this because they don't want to be tied to a 12 month contract with fixed line broadband. I can certainly see this option becoming even more popular once 4G networks are up and running.
post #102 of 110
Thanks to your clear and concise answer I now have a much better understanding on why people do this and the need for LTE. Thank you!
I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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post #103 of 110
i think it's complete BS that you can only get newer OS's via app store. i'm running 10.5.8 and i have no way to upgrade. i don't get it, surely i'm not the only one left out to rot. maybe i'm not on top of things is there another way besides the USB crap which are hard to come by

can anyone help?
post #104 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by burningwheel2 View Post

i think it's complete BS that you can only get newer OS's via app store.

Discs are dead. Get used to that.

Quote:
i'm running 10.5.8 and i have no way to upgrade.

Uh buy Snow Leopard.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #105 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Discs are dead. Get used to that.



Uh buy Snow Leopard.

i realize discs are dead, i don't have a problem with that but i want to skip snow leopard if possible
post #106 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by burningwheel2 View Post

i realize discs are dead, i don't have a problem with that but i want to skip snow leopard if possible

If you want to make it difficult just so you don't have to install SL there are plenty of methods...
Create solutions, not problems.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #107 of 110

All of you that think you are somehow better than the rest of us because you have broadband, need to understand a few things. First, it is NOT our choice to have limited options. I'm happy you are fortunate to have broadband where you live, really. It amazes me how many people don't realize the vast areas of the U.S. that do NOT have broadband options. Where we live, ATT won't run DSL, even though they have taken millions of dollars of gov't money to provide it. We have no cable internet option for the same reason. So, we have one choice, dial up. That's it. We don't live in the sticks, it's a rather large area with a population of over 30,000. I did look into the Hughes Dish internet, but for dial up speeds it costs over $129. a month! And, the limits are so bad, there is no way to download 1 software without violating the monthly limit. 

Oh, and the closest Apple Store is just over 2 and 1/2 hours away. Yes, surprise, surprise, Apple DOESN'T have as many of their stores throughout the country as you might expect. And, before you ask, we do have 3 fairly new Apple computers in the house. And for the self righteous idiot that said there is no modem port on new Macs, have you ever heard of a USB to phone jack modem dongle? That's what we have to use here. 

The next time you think there is no need for Apple to sell software on CDs or thumbdrives, THINK AGAIN!

post #108 of 110
I would reply but you won't be able to read the message until next week.
post #109 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by burningwheel2 View Post


i realize discs are dead, i don't have a problem with that but i want to skip snow leopard if possible

People who are too cheap to pay for $29 upgrades is why I am sort of sad to see Apple going mass market, let alone do any research about things they complain about. Last I heard, Apple is giving away Snow Leopard for free. You would still have to pay $29 for a Lion Family Pack, which I hope isn't too inconvenient for you. If you have some arbitrary, self-derived reason to want to skip Snow Leopard altogether, even if it's just to upgrade, sell your Mac, which should still have decent resale value, and buy a refurb running Lion.
post #110 of 110

There's no reason not to want to be frugal. And it's a simpler process to install Lion directly than to go through Snow Leopard, so I see some merit in what they're saying.

 

In the rare case of still having dial-up, however, physical media is an unfortunate necessity. 

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
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