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Apple settles class-action suit over iPhone 4 antenna, offers US customers $15 or Bumper - Page 2

post #41 of 98
2/18/12 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Does this apply to Verizon phones or just AT&T? Did they have the antenna redesigned by the time the Verizon phone came out?

They had the same antenna, but since the problem doesn't actually exist and no (that I've ever seen) Verizon users ever complained of having the problem, (and no Sprint users have ever complained) I can't imagine Apple accepting claims from them.
PhilBoogie
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post #42 of 98
2/18/12 at 7:49am
Hmmm...

In the settlement Apple agreed they were misrepresenting and concealing material information in the marketing, advertising, sale, and servicing of its iPhone 4particularly as it relates to the quality of the mobile phone antenna and reception and related software.

Interesting turn.

melior diabolus quem scies

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melior diabolus quem scies

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post #43 of 98
2/18/12 at 8:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

...but since the problem doesn't actually exist....

Let me guess: you also think the moon landing was faked, and Saddam Hussein flew the airplanes into the WTC.
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post #44 of 98
2/18/12 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habañero View Post

Let me guess: you also think the moon landing was faked, and Saddam Hussein flew the airplanes into the WTC.

When a "problem" with a phone affects only two to three countries and only a single carrier in one of those countries, it isn't a problem with the phone.

Obligatory sentence turning the conspiracy theory belief back onto you.
PhilBoogie
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post #45 of 98
2/18/12 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habañero View Post

Let me guess: you also think the moon landing was faked, and Saddam Hussein flew the airplanes into the WTC.

Don't be silly, everyone knows the terrorists were trained in Canada in the same location where the "moon landings" were shot.
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post #46 of 98
2/18/12 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeyestar View Post

I call bs. I was able duplicate this every time just by touching one fingertip to the offending spot in the phone.

I'll up your 'BS' with tens of millions of satisfied customers.

I can make my HTC Cha Cha drop calls easily, just by cupping the base of it in my hand, it experiences far more dropped calls than my iPhone 4.

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post #47 of 98
2/18/12 at 8:12am
That bumper probably costs Apple $5 or less. I am thinking of close to $1 in mass quantities. Lawyers will make more than that if the customers opt for the bumper.
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post #48 of 98
2/18/12 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

I'll up you 'BS' with tens of millions of satisfied customers.

I can make my HTC Cha Cha drop calls easily, just by cupping the base of it in my hand, it experiences far more dropped calls than my iPhone 4.

It's really a moot point since Apple agreed they were misrepresenting some of the facts (if it was evil Google it would be called lying) when they settled. The quote is in post 42.

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #49 of 98
2/18/12 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

It's really a moot point since Apple agreed they were misrepresenting some of the facts when they settled. The quote is in post 42.

Link?

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post #50 of 98
2/18/12 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

It's really a moot point since Apple agreed they were misrepresenting some of the facts (if it was evil Google it would be called lying) when they settled. The quote is in post 42.

This misrepresentation of fact was also stated in the keynote that Apple held to address this issue back when it was in the news.

They stated quite clearly that the algorithm used to show how many bars the phone had was horrendously flawed. And they fixed it.

That is to what they're referring.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
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post #51 of 98
2/18/12 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by moooooser View Post

I'm not implying Apple did anything wrong, but as with all class action lawsuits, this settlement is BS. Either they did something wrong and should have to actually compensate the victims more than 2-3% of the (subsidized) purchase price of the defective product, or they shouldn't have to pay anything at all.

I have to agree, it is just pure logic. Then again, I'm not a lawyer.

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post #52 of 98
2/18/12 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Link?

http://www.thetechblock.com/articles...-us-customers/

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

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post #53 of 98
2/18/12 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

This misrepresentation of fact was also stated in the keynote that Apple held to address this issue back when it was in the news.

They stated quite clearly that the algorithm used to show how many bars the phone had was horrendously flawed. And they fixed it.

That is to what they're referring.

Hmmm.
Guessing or factual? I've seen no settlement claim anywhere that Apple's only misrepresentation was that. If you have another link concerning the settlement and what Apple actually agreed with perhaps you could share it?

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #54 of 98
2/18/12 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Hmmm.
Guessing or factual? I've seen no settlement claim anywhere that Apple's only misrepresentation was that. If you have another link concerning the settlement and what Apple actually agreed with perhaps you could share it?

... and that would mean you have no proof that Apple was lying [or misrepresenting].

[ Not only that... we don't even know if Apple agreed with anything. To settle a claim doesn't mean that anything was admitted, it usually means that the defendant would rather settle for whatever reason, guilt not necessarily implied. Being that Apple was initially giving refunds or bumpers in the first place that would tell me that Apple had already set up a fund to cover this event, so why not just say, "Yeah, sure, whatever, we'll just extend the coverage time". ]
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post #55 of 98
2/18/12 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Except you won't be GETTING another one for free. You had your free ride with no real reason. That's it.

Ah, but I will!
My wife has an iPhone 4 and does not like to use a case, so I can get one for her phone and then simply "borrow" it.

Wife FTW!
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post #56 of 98
2/18/12 at 8:57am
"You're holding it wrong"

i would want some free money or a new case for my phone.
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post #57 of 98
2/18/12 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Interesting ...but at least it's over, even though it allegedly never was an issue. \

It was an ALWAYS an issue... for a limited number of people in certain situations (non-case users in weak signal areas). And a smaller issue than the ways in which the antenna is BETTER than the already-good antenna on the 3G/3GS: testing showed what I myself have found: the iPhone 4 gets a better signal in weak rural areas, despite the fact that bars drop when you hold it a certain way.

Of course, bars dropping is not the same as call dropping. That can happen too—with other phones as well—but more rarely. I myself have never seen a problem with touching the metal gap. Holding the bottom of the phone, yes... but I see that on other phones as well. I have no doubt there ARE situations in which touching the metal gap makes a difference, but I haven’t experienced them. The problem of actual dropped calls from the antenna design is nowhere near universal, as the drummed-up “scandal” would have you believe it to be. Unless you mean “universal” in the sense that any phone will sometimes do that...

In short, the iPhone 4’s reception is much better than plenty of other phones, but those ones are somehow OK... Well, a free bumper is no bad thing

And I don’t recall Apple lying about touching the gap being a potential issue in some situations... they gave a away bumpers voluntarily for that reason. That was an admission that it CAN happen.

But it’s funny... for all the vast numbers of iPhone 4 buyers on forums (where people love to complain) I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone complain about iPhone 4 dropped calls, or return one for that reason. Ever. Not even a made-up troll! All I’ve ever seen is lots of people who do NOT own an iPhone 4, indignant on our behalf. Well, thanks, but we’re fine The problems, while real, are minor and rare. I would never take back my old phone that couldn’t get a signal in places my iPhone 4 can!

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post #58 of 98
2/18/12 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... and that would mean you have no proof that Apple was lying [or misrepresenting].

[ Not only that... we don't even know if Apple agreed with anything. To settle a claim doesn't mean that anything was admitted, it usually means that the defendant would rather settle for whatever reason, guilt not necessarily implied. Being that Apple was initially giving refunds or bumpers in the first place that would tell me that Apple had already set up a fund to cover this event, so why not just say, "Yeah, sure, whatever, we'll just extend the coverage time". ]

It was Apple's settlement that offers the proof. No one held a gun to Tim Cook's head and said agree and sign it or else. Do you or I or any other poster here know the reasons Apple agreed to admit fault? We can make guesses, but that's about it. What is known for near certain is the quote I linked earlier where Apple agreed (as part of the settlement) that they were misleading buyers of the iPhone4.

My point in posting it to begin with was one poster saying they had a problem with reception, another claiming no way. Some said it was made up and others called BS, it was real. It's all now moot as I already said since Apple admitted to not being totally honest when they claimed there was no antenna issue that was attributable to them. That's the settlement they agreed to. Pretty cut and dried and silly to argue about.

It doesn't make them evil. IMO, it was just something they were really trying carefully not to validate by admitting there might be some issues for some owners, as any company with a new high-profile product would do.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

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post #59 of 98
2/18/12 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I thought the Apple-branded bumpers retailed for $29...

They are.

However, the wholesale cost of the bumper is probably about 5-7 bucks. After all, it's just a band of plastic, rubber, with a couple of metal buttons made in China.

Apple saves more money by handing out bumpers than paying out the $15 settlement.

All in all, it's a small pittance for Apple to pay compared to the potential long-term PR damage, such as the Pentium PR disaster for Intel.
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post #60 of 98
2/18/12 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

It was Apple's settlement that offers the proof. No one held a gun to Tim Cook's head and said agree and sign it or else. Do you or I or any other poster here know the reasons Apple agreed to admit fault? We can make guesses, but that's about it. What is known for near certain is the quote I linked earlier where Apple agreed (as part of the settlement) that they were misleading buyers of the iPhone4.

My point in posting it to begin with was one poster saying they had a problem with reception, another claiming no way. Some said it was made up and others called BS, it was real. It's all now moot as I already said since Apple admitted to not being totally honest when they claimed there was no antenna issue that was attributable to them. That's the settlement they agreed to. Pretty cut and dried and silly to argue about.

It doesn't make them evil. IMO, it was just something they were really trying carefully not to validate by admitting there might be some issues for some owners, as any company with a new high-profile product would do.

Did Cook admit fault or did he just settle? Do you know even that much.

The little section you quoted was not Apple's admission... it was in the lawsuit. If Cook said settle and forget the suit then that isn't really an admission of anything. As I said, Apple already had the remedy in place.... as a matter of fact this settlement is cheaper... no refunds are being given.
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post #61 of 98
2/18/12 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

They are.

However, the wholesale cost of the bumper is probably about 5-7 bucks. After all, it's just a band of plastic, rubber, with a couple of metal buttons made in China.

Apple saves more money by handing out bumpers than paying out the $15 settlement.

All in all, it's a small pittance for Apple to pay compared to the potential long-term PR damage, such as the Pentium PR disaster for Intel.

Probably more like $2.
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post #62 of 98
2/18/12 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Did Cook admit fault or did he just settle? Do you know even that much.

You read the same article I did, or so I assume.

The summary notice is to be posted in the near future at MacWorld and in USA Today print versions.

EDIT: You raise a valid point. It's absolutely possible that Apple could say they're not admitting fault, but in case there are some users that really have experienced the problem they have $15 (there's an option for cash instead of a bumper) for each of the 25 million buyers in the settlement group. Perhaps the published settlement notice will clarify the claim.

melior diabolus quem scies

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #63 of 98
2/18/12 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

You read the same article I did, or so I assume.

The summary notice is to be posted in the near future at MacWorld and in USA Today print versions.

EDIT: You raise a valid point. It's absolutely possible that Apple could say they're not admitting fault, but in case there are some users that really have experienced the problem they have $15 (there's an option for cash instead of a bumper) for each of the 25 million buyers in the settlement group. Perhaps the published settlement notice will clarify the claim.

Never mind, I didn't see the edit.
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post #64 of 98
2/18/12 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Didn't see the edit.

You were posting while I was editing Island Hermit. See my previous post. Yes, you have a legitimate point.

EDIT: See, I really can admit I could be wrong, or at least premature in judging.

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melior diabolus quem scies

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post #65 of 98
2/18/12 at 11:13am

It would be nice if Apple designated a few charities to which individual settlements could be donated -- and administer the whole thing through the iTunes store -- kind of a gift-card in reverse.

Likely, there are many who bought the iPhone 4, didn't have a problem or don't need/want a settlement... ...but would like to see the money aggregated and put to good use.

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post #66 of 98
2/18/12 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


It would be nice if Apple designated a few charities to which individual settlements could be donated -- and administer the whole thing through the iTunes store -- kind of a gift-card in reverse.

Likely, there are many who bought the iPhone 4, didn't have a problem or don't need/want a settlement... ...but would like to see the money aggregated and put to good use.


No one is stopping you from donating $15 to charity.
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post #67 of 98
2/18/12 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

No one is stopping you from donating $15 to charity.

I realize that!

But I would be more likely to take the refund and dedicate it to a charity...

I will be less likely to go through the hassle of driving to the bank or ATM location to deposit a $15 check...
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post #68 of 98
2/18/12 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

It's really a moot point since Apple agreed they were misrepresenting some of the facts (if it was evil Google it would be called lying) when they settled. The quote is in post 42.

At no point did Apple actually admit fault.

Your 'misrepresentation' quote came from the side of the class-action lawsuit, not from Apple itself.

Are you able to to provide any material from Apple itself admitting fault? (rather than a quote from TechBlock, who was quoting Cnet, who was quoting that a settlement had been reached).

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post #69 of 98
2/18/12 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

At no point did Apple actually admit fault.

Your 'misrepresentation' quote came from the side of the class-action lawsuit, not from Apple itself.

Are you able to to provide any material from Apple itself admitting fault? (rather than a quote from TechBlock, who was quoting Cnet, who was quoting that a settlement had been reached).

Oh, geesh, at least read a few posts on the page before repeating a question that's already been asked and answered.

In case you need them pointed out, see post 60, 62, 63 and 64.

melior diabolus quem scies

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post #70 of 98
2/18/12 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

They had the same antenna, but since the problem doesn't actually exist and no (that I've ever seen) Verizon users ever complained of having the problem, (and no Sprint users have ever complained) I can't imagine Apple accepting claims from them.

2 things:

Actually, the problem does exist. Its obviously not as bad as it was made out to be by the media, but tests have shown that the iphone4 does suffer higher than average signal loss:



Quote:
It's difficult to be exact about the data, since signal is very sensitive to direction, ambient conditions, and cell breathing. To generate these numbers, I measured at least 6 times and took the average. The results are pretty self explanatory. Inside a case, the iPhone 4 performs slightly better than the Nexus One. However, attenuation gets measurably worse depending how you hold the phone. Squeezing it really tightly, you can drop as much as 24 dB. Holding it naturally, I measured an average drop of 20 dB.

and no, they don't have the same antenna. The Verizon iphone4 implemented antenna diversity, which definitely helped with the issue.
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post #71 of 98
2/18/12 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Oh, geesh, at least read a few posts on the page before repeating a question that's already been asked and answered.

In case you need them pointed out, see post 60, 62, 63 and 64.

Oh, I read the posts.

But, considering your history of generally anti-Apple posts, and your willingness to put your 'opinion' out there so frequently, I see no harm in making the point multiple times.

What's the matter?

Trolling getting a bit frustrating for you?

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post #72 of 98
2/18/12 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

At no point did Apple actually admit fault.

Apple accepted responsibility,but didn't admit fault. Those are completely different things even though they can often go hand in hand.

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post #73 of 98
2/18/12 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Oh, I read the posts.

But, considering your history of generally anti-Apple posts, and your willingness to put your 'opinion' out there so frequently, I see no harm in making the point multiple times

I suppose that will do as a cover for failing to read.

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post #74 of 98
2/18/12 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Apple accepted responsibility,but didn't admit fault. Those are completely different things even though they can often go hand in hand.

I utterly agree.

Quite frankly, I believe the way that Apple handled an issue that I personally believe was blown way out of proportion, was superb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I suppose that will do as a cover for failing to read.

Not true.

Like yourself, I also have the ability to fully admit when I am wrong.

However, let's face it though. You're not exactly filled with love for Apple products, and have spent many, many hours trying to tear them down.

That is where you and I are different. I would prefer to devote energy to the things that I appreciate, and I have utter contempt for those who do the reverse.

You will hear from me frequently whenever you post something that I believe to be incorrect, regardless of your later admissions. This is a forum, not a courtroom, and admission of guilt doesn't exempt you from ridicule.

If you don't like it, don't post.

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post #75 of 98
2/18/12 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

You will hear from me frequently whenever you post something that I believe to be incorrect, regardless of your later admissions. This is a forum, not a courtroom, and admission of guilt doesn't exempt you from ridicule.

If you don't like it, don't post.

I'll be sure to keep that in mind. Thanks.

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post #76 of 98
2/18/12 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I'll be sure to keep that in mind. Thanks.

Be sure that you do.

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post #77 of 98
2/18/12 at 7:57pm
[Yes, I know this is kind of my AA 12-steps thing, but anyways...]

During Antennagate, I made several incoherent and insulting posts. I apologise for this, I was caught up in the insanity of "Antennagate".

I gave it time, waited a few months for it to be released in Malaysia, where I was at the time.

Indeed there was a drop in signal, but only at extremely low signal areas... Which was compensated for by the better reception.

So I got my free case, shipped out of Singapore, because not surprisingly Malaysian telcos and Apple Malaysia were not honouring the free bumper deal. However using the free bumper Apple app you could enter your serial, etc. into the Singapore location and Apple South Asia send it to your Singapore address (in this case, my uncle's place in Singapore).

So, I got my free case, enjoyed it, and it went on to be the best iPhone I've ever used. Then I got the iPhone 4S when first launched in October last year here in Australia, and I've been happily using it without a screen protector and without a case. Brilliant, beautiful, just nice.

To be honest, I'd like it the screen to be a little bigger, because of the apps I use and in general. However, the Samsung Galaxy S2 size is waaay too big.
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post #78 of 98
2/19/12 at 1:46am
Can people in here just admit that the iPhone 4 has problems and be done with it?

There are numerous scientific evidence to suggest it does have problems.

Why cant you people just man up and admit it? Stop acting like little girls. Jeez.

Swallow your blown up egos once in a while.

This is what an RF engineer said direct quote:

Quote:
I'm an rf engineer

1) nobody but an idiot or apple would put the antenna where your hand can touch the metal. independent testing showed serious loss of signal strength with some grips. if you've ever had rabbit ears you know how touching them changes reception.

2) an anechoic chamber is useless for testing rf reception. it's for sound analysis. all the equipment apple showed wowed the press but had no value for antenna testing.


Apple fixed the antenna defect with the 4s.

That is clear proof that the 4 had problems or they would not have modified it.

Like the saying goes "if it aint broke, dont fix it".

Apple fixed it.

What does that say about the 4?

That its broke.

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post #79 of 98
2/19/12 at 1:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Apple accepted responsibility,but didn't admit fault. Those are completely different things even though they can often go hand in hand.

That is like saying "I misplaced it" when it was really "I lost it". At the end of the day, the object is not present. Euphemism at its best.

In Apple's case, what they've ultimately showed is that they acknowledge the problem, which indirectly means they admit fault.

No one would fix something if they didnt see a problem. You dont spend money to fix something that is working properly.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #80 of 98
2/19/12 at 5:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Can people in here just admit that the iPhone 4 has problems and be done with it?

No. Because it didn't happen. There was no overarching antenna issue.

Quote:
Apple fixed the antenna defect with the 4s.

You CANNOT say that the existence of a new antenna design for the purpose of incorporating two more carriers is 'fixing it'.

Quote:
That is clear proof that the 4 had problems or they would not have modified it.

This statement has absolutely no proof behind it.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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  • Apple settles class-action suit over iPhone 4 antenna, offers US customers $15 or Bumper
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