Originally Posted by doh123
Wine.. including Crossover and Wineskin... but they bundle their own X11 builds inside, but still rely on some of XQuartz being installed.
really? thats very short sighted. Java is a major software language that needs to be supported... X11 is also major on other *nix systems since it is THE windowing system on Linux, BSD, etc... it helps in easily making ports. Many current apps still using some Carbon, including stuff like MS Office 2011... hopefully they'll leave it as deprecated for a few versions before removing anything.You thinking just cuz Apple is getting bigger that they can force the whole world to change to exactly what they want is very short sighted. Just because you have an idea of "proper" doesn't mean its right.
Beyond all that I'm sure some day all of Apple devices will become like iOS devices... slightly better than they are now.. much worse than Macs are now. While I do know ObjC/Cocoa well, and really do like it... as a computer user and not a Phone/Pad user for my main computing... I'm pretty sure in a few years I'll have to go back to Linux, or even use Windows more... Apple is trying to get out of the actual personal computer business and just wants to make an iPad-like focus.
Force the whole world to change? They already did that with iOS - play with Apple's rules or don't.
500k apps and 24bn downloads later and I think Apple are quite valid in thinking that they can (and will) dictate how people develop software on their platform.
As for X11 - we've managed to name 3 applications that need it. As for Academia wanting/needing X11 - they can still download an open source. However, having a sister who just bought an MBP for university, I can assure you that any idea that X11 is needed across academia is misguided and dated. They are more interested in whether you run Word than X11.
But my point for X11 still stands - developers like GIMP have had plenty of time to get themselves onto the OSX platform properly. No one is stopping you downloading an open source, just Apple aren't going to support it themselves.
Does anyone (care to) remember OpenOffice and NeoOffice? Someone at Neo took the time and trouble to recode the OpenOffice interface to Apple APIs (and did a fine job as well), and now OpenOffice does it as standard. So why does GIMP continue to use X11?
And lets stop pretending X11 is some fantastic windowing platform. It's a total nightmare on the Mac - ala Gimp. None of the controls work properly (eg file manager), non of the keystrokes work the way you want or are use to. It's a pile of crap that should long have support OSX UI APIs.
As for Java, another crap platform. I have rarely met a Java application that I've liked, or felt was very stable. But I've met plenty on both the OSX and Windows platform that are total garbage - and from mainstream software developers (like HP, IBM and bunches of others). They are buggy as hell, inconsistent UI (because they are determined to draw their own buttons rather than call the OS), and so forth.