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Apple issues statement on iPhone 4 'antenna-gate' lawsuit settlement - Page 3

post #81 of 121
2/18/12 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

WiFi issues? I didn't know about any so I have no idea. Can you supply a link to it and tell me what the point is, or what I should be looking for and why?

I don't know about any issues either, but I assume they must be rampant because the WiFi antenna was moved from being external to internal between the GSM iPhone 4 release, and the CMDA iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S releases.
Quote:
In addition, the 4S locates the WiFi antenna in the same place as the CDMA iPhone 4. If you missed it back then, and have read the previous cellular connectivity section, you’re probably wondering where the WiFi and Bluetooth antennas went, given the absence of a stainless steel band for them. The answer is inside, printed on a flex board, like virtually everyone else does for their cellular antennas


(See what I did there?)

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post #82 of 121
2/18/12 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post

I can't stand blackberries but have had several as company issued phones and they all had excellent reception. Only thing good about them really.

I have the misfortune to have to carry a BB as well as an iPhone 4, both on Verizon. I've experienced numerous situations where the BB was unusable while the iPhone placed and received calls flawlessly.
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post #83 of 121
2/18/12 at 7:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I don't know about any issues either, but I assume they must be rampant because the WiFi antenna was moved from being external to internal between the GSM iPhone 4 release, and the CMDA iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S releases.

(See what I did there?)

Why would you assume it meant there was a Wi-fi reception issue? Perhaps it was an issue with the build considering the newer hardware. Or perhaps it was less expensive, or easier to engineer or assemble. Did Apple ever mention why they made the Wi-fi antenna change? They'd be the ones to ask.

So no, I don't really see what you did there. What does that have to do with antenna attenuation improvements from ATT's iPhone4 to Verizon's build as Anandtech demonstrated. Perhaps an accidental byproduct of some change Apple made, but something changed and improved it unless you're chalking it up to magic.

I suspect instead you're trying to confuse the discussion . .

EDIT: Oh.... I get it now! That's what you did!

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #84 of 121
2/18/12 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Why would you assume it meant there was a Wi-fi reception issue? Perhaps it was an issue with the build considering the newer hardware. Or perhaps it was less expensive, or easier to engineer or assemble. Did Apple ever mention why they made the Wi-fi antenna change? They'd be the ones to ask.

So no, I don't really see what you did there. What does that have to do with antenna attenuation improvements from ATT's iPhone4 to Verizon's build as Anandtech demonstrated. Perhaps an accidental byproduct of some change Apple made, but something changed and improved it unless you're chalking it up to magic.

I suspect instead you're trying to confuse the discussion . .

EDIT: Oh.... I get it now! That's what you did!

Just to be clear, I'm pointing out a change in design is not proof that the previous design was inherently flawed.

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post #85 of 121
2/18/12 at 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Just to be clear, I'm pointing out a change in design is not proof that the previous design was inherently flawed.

Is the improvement between iP4 versions that Anandtech demonstrated some measure of evidence that Apple changed something that affected it? Rather than trying to wag the dog with the tail (hardware change is evidence of a flaw), the proven improvement is the evidence you should be considering that a change probably took place.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

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post #86 of 121
2/18/12 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

This is what I don't get.

"We offered customers a free case to solve a problem that didn't exist. They wouldn't shut up, so after a year and a half of wasting our time and theirs, we're giving them the same offer again."

They had their chance. They shouldn't be given squat.

After receiving something like $2 in PayPal credit in 2003/2004 in one of the PayPal class action lawsuits, it quickly dawned on me how crappy class-action lawsuits are in general.

It wasn't a big problem as such, but a weakness that Apple promptly addressed with the free case.

Anyway luckily, now back in Australia generally there are consumer complaint bodies as well as other mediation government or semi-government organisations that look into things "like these" and intervene without having to depend heavily on Australian or International courts. An interesting issue that has come up here is that a consumer by default is entitled to a 2 year warranty. I'm not sure if anyone has taken this right up to the telcos or Apple yet... Maybe someone else can update us on this.
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post #87 of 121
2/18/12 at 8:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Just to be clear, I'm pointing out a change in design is not proof that the previous design was inherently flawed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Is the improvement between iP4 versions that Anandtech demonstrated some measure of evidence that Apple changed something that affected it? Rather than trying to wag the dog with the tail (hardware change is evidence of a flaw), the proven improvement is the evidence you should be considering that a change probably took place.

Well, to me, it was a weakness in the original iPhone 4 that was addressed in the iPhone 4S. As simple as that.

And I was quite happy about Steve's admittance and explanation about it. It takes a lot of guts for anyone to do that kind of thing.
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post #88 of 121
2/18/12 at 8:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Is the improvement between iP4 versions that Anandtech demonstrated some measure of evidence that Apple changed something that affected it? Rather than trying to wag the dog with the tail (hardware change is evidence of a flaw), the proven improvement is the evidence you should be considering that a change probably took place.

I can't say it any easier than post hoc, ergo propter hoc.Saying that the change in the antenna design is proof that the antenna design is flawed is erroneous, especially when so many millions of people are using it just fine without incident and when dropped called existed before any iPhone ever existed. it's simply fallacious and axiomatically wrong to argue it's a design flaw.

BTW, note that from the day Apple introduced the first iPhone it was assumed it would be a piece of crap phone because 1) "PC guys aren't just gonna walk in and make a phone," 2) anything so small clearly couldn't work well, 3) Apple has clearly put "form over function" with pointless eye candy for the iSheep, and 4) the phone was deduced to being just another app.

PS: I'm done with this discussion. It's pointless to play chess after a checkmate so why continue this discussion.

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post #89 of 121
2/18/12 at 8:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I can't say it any easier than post hoc, ergo propter hoc.Saying that the change in the antenna design is proof that the antenna design is flawed is erroneous, especially when so many millions of people are using it just fine without incident and when dropped called existed before any iPhone ever existed. it's simply fallacious and axiomatically wrong to argue it's a design flaw.

BTW, note that from the day Apple introduced the first iPhone it was assumed it would be a piece of crap phone because 1) "PC guys aren't just gonna walk in and make a phone," 2) anything so small clearly couldn't work well, 3) Apple has clearly put "form over function" with pointless eye candy for the iSheep, and 4) the phone was deduced to being just another app.

PS: I'm done with this discussion. It's pointless to play chess after a checkmate so why continue this discussion.

You're the one fixated on a hardware change proving something, and the only one making that claim. Personally I have no idea what change Apple made, but evidence says there probably was one.

Checkmate. So now it's pointless to continue, right?

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #90 of 121
2/18/12 at 8:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

You're the one fixated on a hardware change proving something, and the only one making that claim. Personally I have no idea what change Apple made, but evidence says there probably was one.

Go fish!

We're playing two different games so let me fix that for you.

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post #91 of 121
2/18/12 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHD View Post

Samsung and RIM deny signal problems, says iPhone only issue

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...e-2029995.html

Apple can make exactly the same statement as made by Samsung and RIM in that article, of course the pool of customers they have to draw complaints from is many times larger.

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post #92 of 121
2/18/12 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

We're playing two different games so let me fix that for you.

Well that would certainly be a good reason for you to have kept pushing the argument towards something it never was. You weren't in the same game to begin with.

Kiddin' with ya Soli. I actually expected you to bail earlier than you did. Your Jedi mind tricks don't work here

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

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post #93 of 121
2/18/12 at 8:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

I actually doubt most people use a case. A large amount of people, sure, but certainly not most.

I don't recall ever seeing one without a case and I see them all the time on the subway and at work. I would be surprised if the more than 20% of US iPhone users don't use a case.
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post #94 of 121
2/18/12 at 8:49pm
Some very interesting points made.

However, I'd have the agree with the checkmate by SolipsismX.

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post #95 of 121
2/18/12 at 8:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

I don't recall ever seeing one without a case and I see them all the time on the subway and at work. I would be surprised if the more than 20% of US iPhone users don't use a case.

Most are without cases. You can even check Super Bowl 2012 (I'm sure you can find a video of it) that show an overwhelmingly large number of iPhones being used and most of them without cases. Here are video stills showing case-less iPhones...
I wish the case usage was higher because I'd like Aple to release a dock that would allow for (at least) their Bumper being used when docked. It's just not realistic to add and remove a case when you want to dock your phone. I've dropped it countless times — and on cement —but only one time has resulted in breakage and luckily that was the back plate. It something sharp and hard.

I think I'll be getting this dock if/when it gets made...

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post #96 of 121
2/18/12 at 9:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Most are without cases. You can even check Super Bowl 2012 (I'm sure you can find a video of it) that show an overwhelmingly large number of iPhones being used and most of them without cases. Here are video stills showing case-less iPhones...
I wish the case usage was higher because I'd like Aple to release a dock that would allow for (at least) their Bumper being used when docked. It's just not realistic to add and remove a case when you want to dock your phone. I've dropped it countless times and on cement but only one time has resulted in breakage and luckily that was the back plate. It something sharp and hard.

I think I'll be getting this dock if/when it gets made...

I'm surprised by that too. I know a lot of iPhone users, and as far as I can recall, all use cases. I don't know when I last saw one without a case.
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post #97 of 121
2/18/12 at 10:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

This is what I don't get.

"We offered customers a free case to solve a problem that didn't exist. They wouldn't shut up, so after a year and a half of wasting our time and theirs, we're giving them the same offer again."

It's a placebo but if it cures the disease of ongoing negative PR then it is all good. And cheaper than dealing with that PR issue
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post #98 of 121
2/18/12 at 10:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

The lead attorney for the settlement says the affected class includes 25 million buyers, or a possible $375 million payout, not including attorney fees. I believe someone is mistaken if claiming the settlement applies to only a small group.

Of course the lawyer is going to say that. It makes him look more awesome.
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post #99 of 121
2/18/12 at 10:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

I still think Steve Jobs was a jerk for basically saying I'm a liar.

He never called any of the users liars. He said that the media were lying calling it a major design flaw etc which implied that all phones were affected, that it was a uniquely iPhone problem or that Apple knew the phones were screwed up and released them anyway.
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post #100 of 121
2/18/12 at 10:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman View Post

After receiving something like $2 in PayPal credit in 2003/2004 in one of the PayPal class action lawsuits, it quickly dawned on me how crappy class-action lawsuits are in general.

It wasn't a big problem as such, but a weakness that Apple promptly addressed with the free case.

Anyway luckily, now back in Australia generally there are consumer complaint bodies as well as other mediation government or semi-government organisations that look into things "like these" and intervene without having to depend heavily on Australian or International courts. An interesting issue that has come up here is that a consumer by default is entitled to a 2 year warranty. I'm not sure if anyone has taken this right up to the telcos or Apple yet... Maybe someone else can update us on this.

Vodafone and 3 introduced 2 year warranties at the beginning of 2010, iPhones were excluded at first but that changed on 21/02/2011.

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post #101 of 121
2/18/12 at 10:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I wish the case usage was higher because I'd like Aple to release a dock that would allow for (at least) their Bumper being used when docked.

My Switcheasy case came with two dock adapters that fit the phone with the case still on. I always use a case. I would use a case for any phone I own, mainly to protect my phone, and also I just like to change colors from time to time. For what it's worth the two other people in my household who do not use a case on their iPhone 4, have never mentioned problems from dropped calls.

Oh yeah, your right SolipsismX, checkmate.

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post #102 of 121
2/18/12 at 10:55pm
I use my phone without a case. Easier to hold and slide into the pocket. Looks sleek. Had my iPhone 4 since it came out. Got the case for free because it was free. I've never had any antenna problems. I believe most people use cases for protection. Most 3Gs and 3GSs I've seen over time were in cases too.
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post #103 of 121
2/18/12 at 11:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

We're not going over this again. When tens of millions of phones are still sold today with absolutely no design change and NONE of them are exhibiting this problem and NO ONE is actively complaining about it, it was NOT a problem with the phone. It was a problem with AT&T (and in Australia, in areas of equally poor service). Period.

Yep. Right. Funnily for me on two separate ip4 s and my brother in law's ip4 intermittent call drops went away after purchasing a case. Go figure. Must be my network. Oh wait my wife's N8 has no issues nor have any pther phnes our family or I have had. And this is not At&t...

Still the case didn't fix bluetooth dropping intermittently from my car kit and headset.
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post #104 of 121
2/19/12 at 12:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Plenty of articles of Steve Jobs on stage completely decimating all the pathetic shortsighted lies RiM and Samsung spewed to try to get a leg up over the dominate iPhone. There are also plenty of independent tests that show that other phones single will weaken if you block the signal with your hand, including the link GatorGuy posted to AnandTech. And then there the physics of this universe regarding blocking a radio wave with a dense material. But you can ignore all that and take unsubstantiated comments from CEOs that should have just kept their mouth shut but instead were shown to be liars and fools. So far you haven't said enough to be shown to be anymore than the latter.

Nownow soli. I know you understand wireless well enough to know the difference between detuning (proven by many videos of a single finger touching a single point) an antenna and attenuating it. Two quite different topics. Steve just used the public's ignorance on the difference in his "decimations". For us that work in the radio world just saw him deflecting the issue. The real question should have been: is the ip4 still as sensitive or even more sensitive than competition AFTER being detuned. If he could have proven that, he would have been duly applauded instead of being called out by the press.

It was Kind of like saying that if he'd designed a gorgeous fuel pump in a car that doesn't pump gas while on a steep hill and the engine dies because of that. Then he'd compare toyota and mercedes and make a video proving that their engines die also if the gas tank is empty. Two different issues causing the same end result.
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post #105 of 121
2/19/12 at 12:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcstarheel View Post

I use my phone without a case. Easier to hold and slide into the pocket. Looks sleek. Had my iPhone 4 since it came out. Got the case for free because it was free. I've never had any antenna problems. I believe most people use cases for protection. Most 3Gs and 3GSs I've seen over time were in cases too.

I owned three Bumpers (one was free from Apple) and they do take damage. One fall and the plastic can get scraped. Over time the rubber portion gets discoloured (bought white each time because I liked the two-tone look with my iPhone). I finally decided to give it a shot without it and I'm enjoying it more. I think I also drop it less. With the new AppleCare+ I'll definitely be buying that as insuracne for accidental damage.

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post #106 of 121
2/19/12 at 12:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

Nownow soli. I know you understand wireless well enough to know the difference between detuning (proven by many videos of a single finger touching a single point) an antenna and attenuating it. Two quite different topics. Steve just used the public's ignorance on the difference in his "decimations". For us that work in the radio world just saw him deflecting the issue. The real question should have been: is the ip4 still as sensitive or even more sensitive than competition AFTER being detuned. If he could have proven that, he would have been duly applauded instead of being called out by the press.

It was Kind of like saying that if he'd designed a gorgeous fuel pump in a car that doesn't pump gas while on a steep hill and the engine dies because of that. Then he'd compare toyota and mercedes and make a video proving that their engines die also if the gas tank is empty. Two different issues causing the same end result.

Detuning?

So how come my reception goes up when I touch the mythical, magical spot?

I think I got a magic touch

PS History showed the N8 to be one of the contributors of Nokia's downfall, failing dismally to live up to expectations in the market and driving even the most loyal Nokia users away with its poor performance.

The winners Apple and Samsung.

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post #107 of 121
2/19/12 at 4:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Detuning?

So how come my reception goes up when I touch the mythical, magical spot?

I think I got a magic touch

PS History showed the N8 to be one of the contributors of Nokia's downfall, failing dismally to live up to expectations in the market and driving even the most loyal Nokia users away with its poor performance.

Oh wow. that was so cool and imaginative. Respect dude.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/t...one-4-review/2

Compare the case vs. no case and remember that 3dB is twice the energy.

You can also check it yourself with the cellular test display and the UMTS monitored set. It should be quite straightforward...
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post #108 of 121
2/19/12 at 5:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

You can't trust what Anandtech says about iPhone4 reception compared to others. Everyone knows they don't like Apple and diss their products whenever they have a chance to.

/s

Oh, that explains why Anand says he uses a MacBook Pro as his main machine.
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post #109 of 121
2/19/12 at 5:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by slig View Post

Oh, that explains why Anand says he uses a MacBook Pro as his main machine.

The /s tag at the end indicates sarcasm.

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"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #110 of 121
2/19/12 at 6:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

Nownow soli. I know you understand wireless well enough to know the difference between detuning (proven by many videos of a single finger touching a single point) an antenna and attenuating it. Two quite different topics. Steve just used the public's ignorance on the difference in his "decimations". For us that work in the radio world just saw him deflecting the issue. The real question should have been: is the ip4 still as sensitive or even more sensitive than competition AFTER being detuned. If he could have proven that, he would have been duly applauded instead of being called out by the press.

It was Kind of like saying that if he'd designed a gorgeous fuel pump in a car that doesn't pump gas while on a steep hill and the engine dies because of that. Then he'd compare toyota and mercedes and make a video proving that their engines die also if the gas tank is empty. Two different issues causing the same end result.



Everybody already knows all of that.

Everybody has decided to ignore all of that.

Case closed.
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post #111 of 121
2/19/12 at 6:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Detuning?

So how come my reception goes up when I touch the mythical, magical spot?

Likely you have a defective capacitor in the tuning circuit. Go to the Genius Bar and they will give you a new one for free.
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post #112 of 121
2/19/12 at 6:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Everybody already knows all of that.

Everybody has decided to ignore all of that.

Case closed.

I didn't know that, and I certainly appreciate the post explaining it. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a disingenuous poster or two already knew this, but I certainly wasn't aware.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #113 of 121
2/19/12 at 7:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

I don't recall ever seeing one without a case and I see them all the time on the subway and at work. I would be surprised if the more than 20% of US iPhone users don't use a case.

I'm appalled to see most of people here using iPhone 4 without a case. I don't know why. Maybe because I always thought stainless steel on the side is easily scrathced. For anntenna, the first thing I did when my wife got her iPhone is trying deadgrip. Too bad I didn't see the infamous signal dropping everyone talking about. And can't say my condo has good reception either.

Bought on November 2010 by the way.

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post #114 of 121
2/19/12 at 7:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

They had a standard 30 days to return it with no restocking fee or requirement to be held to their cellular contract if the device was unsuitable for them.

That is what I did. I had waited 4 hours in the AZ heat to get an IP4 when they first came out. Within minutes of getting the phone it started to drop calls. If i held it in my hand as I normally would it would loose service. It would go from 5 bars to1 then have "no service". I demonstrated this to several geniuses and 2 Apple store mangers. They all did not have an answer. They actually could reproduce the whole thing for themselves. BUT if they took the phone off of 3G down to EVDO then it worked perfectly! I asked them all that if the phone was replaced would the next one have the same issue? They all said "probably". The other fix was a bumper. But i do not use cases on my phones. So that was not a solution for me. Instead I returned it. Felt slighted by the whole "your holding it wrong" thing. This started my year long trek into Android phones. The list of Android phones I tried in 2011 was
Motorola Atrix (with lap-dock) HTC Evo, HTC Thunderbolt, Droid Bionic, Samsung Nexus, iPhone 4s.
The 4s is the most complete blend of hardware and software i have used to date. So this was not an issue of trying to get a free bumper but one of I should not need a bumper to have a fully functional phone....
EDIT: Of all the phones I have had in the last 18 months only the IP4 would loose noticeable signal then loose service depending on how it was held.

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"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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post #115 of 121
2/19/12 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

EDIT: Of all the phones I have had in the last 18 months only the IP4 would loose noticeable signal then loose service depending on how it was held.

According to Steve, all cell phones have that exact same problem.
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post #116 of 121
2/19/12 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

According to Steve, all cell phones have that exact same problem.

That might be correct...but what I said was "noticeable" signal loss that lead to loss of service.

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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Tallest Skil:


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post #117 of 121
2/19/12 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

That might be correct...but what I said was "noticeable" signal loss that lead to loss of service.

The iPhone 4 had the best signal strength in the industry in its day. Of course, the iPhone 4S has it beat, but tech marches on.
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post #118 of 121
2/19/12 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

The iPhone 4 had the best signal strength in the industry in its day. Of course, the iPhone 4S has it beat, but tech marches on.

No doubt....my IP4s is the best phone i have owned so far! But to be honest the IP4 was the only phone of the 6 i had in 2011 that would lose noticeable signal and service depending on how it was held.

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"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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post #119 of 121
2/19/12 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

I actually doubt most people use a case. A large amount of people, sure, but certainly not most.

Anyone that doesn't use a case to protect a $200+ device from drops and other damage is an idiot.
NW '98
"Everything works, in theory..."
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NW '98
"Everything works, in theory..."
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post #120 of 121
2/19/12 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

The iPhone 4 had the best signal strength in the industry in its day. Of course, the iPhone 4S has it beat, but tech marches on.

Cool story bro, too bad it's not true.
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