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Microsoft to challenge iCloud with SkyDrive OS X client - Page 2

post #41 of 74
2/20/12 at 9:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

I tried Skydrive last year. It stinks. It wouldn't work very well. The navigation was nearly impossible to work with when trying to find files. Eventually when it was too difficult to use I deleted everything on it. The problem was that it took a long time to find the right links and tabs to get to the delete files button.

So let me get this straight...

You browse to a folder and decide you want to delete it, but you couldn't see the links indicated here:


Or maybe you tried to select a file and delete it, but you couldn't see the links indicated here:
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post #42 of 74
2/20/12 at 9:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockstheparty View Post

I think competition is good, but comparing SkyDrive to iCloud is sensationalist journalism at it's best, and making this comparison shows quite a bit of ignorance as to what the technology does and what it is for.

You need to read the latest info.

It looks like the next SkyDrive release does most of the stuff you mention for Windows devices.

I suppose it's like a cross between iCloud and DropBox with a few extra bits thrown in.
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post #43 of 74
2/20/12 at 9:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Kind of not the point though. This kind of fascist censorship completely eliminates SkyDrive from consideration for many people if the account is true. They have no right to look at your files. In Europe they could be taken to court over such behaviour.

When multiple users upload the same file on cloud storage services like Live Mesh and Dropbox only copy of the file exists, and each user is given a link to the file.

When a DMCA notice is received for a file shared by a user, the common practise is to remove that users link, but leave the actual file (and other users' links to that same file) intact.

Now here comes the crazy part!

As a part of the case against Megaupload it is alleged they didn't apply a comprehensive take-down method when notified of a copyright infringement via a DMCA take-down notice.

Essentially the DOJ is saying to comply with a DMCA take-down notice a cloud storage service provider must delete the actual file and therefore break all user links to file.

Megaupload (and I assume other cloud storage services) applied this method to child pornography. e.g. once a child pornography image was reported its file hash was saved in a black list, if anyone else tried to upload the same file it was rejected.

I'm not sure if Microsoft (or others) are applying the same method to copyrighted files, but depending on the DOJ against Megaupload at some point soon all cloud storage service providers may be compelled to implement it.
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post #44 of 74
2/20/12 at 9:42pm
Doesn't this just amount to Microsoft's usual FUD? As in, see, eventually this product will be everything everybody wants, and will be so much better than everybody else, that they will just go out of business on their own and recommend us to all their current customers. Please wait for us to complete development...and design...and really, we are going to start working on this pretty soon...but whatever you do, don't buy any competing product because ours is going to be SO MUCH BETTER! And we'll give you a pony.
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post #45 of 74
2/20/12 at 9:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panu View Post

For example, iCloud gives me access to my media files for free without uploading them: all 1.5 TB of them.

Uh, not really.
You get 5GB free but that does not include any media.
I highly doubt you have purchased 1.5 GB of music and TV shows from iTunes.
You cannot redownload movies.
If you have iTunes Match (not free) you can upload (only song) songs not in iTunes but you are limited to 25,000 and they will be converted to 256 kbps..
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post #46 of 74
2/20/12 at 9:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I didn't know about the API stuff (which is interesting), but it doesn't help me at all really.

I like to keep things simple so I like to get all my online services form one place which has always been Apple. I don't even have a DropBox account because I find the idea of keeping stuff in two places somewhere between annoying and stressful (or perhaps both).

Despite the fact that the speed was always atrocious and the reliability poor, I miss the iDisk feature where one can share a large file with someone else. It's really one of the big problems most people have today and unless you have some storage space in the cloud it's really just not possible.

I don't even care about file hierarchies and so forth or how many levels deep the file system is. I just want to be able to either send or share a file with a family member without having to burn it to a plastic disk and put it in the post.

With iCloud, everything is locked down to the app and to your own personal devices. Sometimes it would be nice to be able to share your stuff with other people. I realise they are doing it this way at least in part because they don't really *want* you to share your stuff (because people have a habit of sharing illegally etc.), but I find it annoying and a bit insulting that this presumption is being made.

I don't see why if I'm paying for iCloud and have tons of storage space, that I have to pay for more storage through DropBox and manage yet another online account and password, just because they *assume* that I'm going to share some hollywood movie.

In the original leaked plans for iCloud there was going to be something like a FileVault that one could throw files in and have them synced between all your devices but also (crucially) share them with other people.

...that Apple ALREADY has a system that can do a good chunk of the sharing needs for documents with the iWork Public Beta. I wonder if they plan to roll that into iCloud (and why they didn't do so initially)
Summer '09 Macbook 6 GB RAM, SSD; iPhone 3GS, aTV v.2

Jesus told her, I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. Anyone who lives in me and [trusts]...
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Summer '09 Macbook 6 GB RAM, SSD; iPhone 3GS, aTV v.2

Jesus told her, I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. Anyone who lives in me and [trusts]...
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post #47 of 74
2/20/12 at 10:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift View Post

Why is iTunes prohibited?

Because many, many corporations and workplaces prohibit certain software on their network.
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post #48 of 74
2/20/12 at 10:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kohelet View Post

...that Apple ALREADY has a system that can do a good chunk of the sharing needs for documents with the iWork Public Beta. I wonder if they plan to roll that into iCloud (and why they didn't do so initially)

It is already in iCloud but only for iOS devices.
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post #49 of 74
2/20/12 at 10:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisgoingon View Post

Doesn't this just amount to Microsoft's usual FUD? As in, see, eventually this product will be everything everybody wants, and will be so much better than everybody else, that they will just go out of business on their own and recommend us to all their current customers. Please wait for us to complete development...and design...and really, we are going to start working on this pretty soon...but whatever you do, don't buy any competing product because ours is going to be SO MUCH BETTER! And we'll give you a pony.

Was that rhetorical? I couldn't tell.

In any case the SkyDrive app will be part of the Windows 8 Consumer Preview, due in about a week (give or take).

SkyDrive has been around (and evolving) for almost 5 years now. The release mentioned in the article will be version 5.

So the answer to your question (if it even was a question) is no, this is not FUD.
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post #50 of 74
2/20/12 at 10:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Microsoft is Apple's second-oldest enemy. Steve trusted Bill, but Bill stole from Steve. Nobody can forgive that.

Your forgetting part of the history. If it was not for Bill Gates, there would be no apple as we see it today period! Steve Jobs stole from xerox. When apple was on deaths doorsteps Microsoft gave Apple a substantial cash infusion, plus developed office for the mac to attract users to the platform. I am tired of the Microsoft bashing. I like both platforms for different things. Competition is good, and I would like to see both companies do well in our American economy.
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post #51 of 74
2/20/12 at 10:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

It is already in iCloud but only for iOS devices.

Why should I need to send something to a different site to share it? It is already on Apple's servers. My point is, these two products could be rolled into one (and what the heck, how about basic edits for the odd time your iPad's GPU goes out, or the screen freaks out, and you need to edit something at work)
Summer '09 Macbook 6 GB RAM, SSD; iPhone 3GS, aTV v.2

Jesus told her, I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. Anyone who lives in me and [trusts]...
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Summer '09 Macbook 6 GB RAM, SSD; iPhone 3GS, aTV v.2

Jesus told her, I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. Anyone who lives in me and [trusts]...
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post #52 of 74
2/20/12 at 10:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Nothing but good can come of this. iCloud needs competition.

Precisely!

+1
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post #53 of 74
2/20/12 at 10:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kohelet View Post

Why should I need to send something to a different site to share it? It is already on Apple's servers. My point is, these two products could be rolled into one

And it will be.
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post #54 of 74
2/20/12 at 11:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Nothing but good can come of this. iCloud needs competition.

This looks closer to Dropbox, than iCloud.

The mains benefit of iCloud, like MobileMe before it:
  • Email
  • To-Do
  • Calendar
  • Bookmarks
  • Notes
  • EVERYWHERE
  • AUTOMATICALLY

And iCloud also has the added benefits of:
  • iTunes Match (at additional cost)
  • iOS Device Backups
  • Photo Stream
  • Documents and Data (to share across devices).
  • Deep OS integration (iOS and Mac OS X)

Unless SkyDrive can do this, which it can't and never will be able to, it's not even close to competition.

SkyDrive and Dropbox are DATA STORAGE, iCloud is way more than JUST data storage.
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post #55 of 74
2/20/12 at 11:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpediem302 View Post

Your forgetting part of the history. If it was not for Bill Gates, there would be no apple as we see it today period! Steve Jobs stole from xerox. When apple was on deaths doorsteps Microsoft gave Apple a substantial cash infusion, plus developed office for the mac to attract users to the platform. I am tired of the Microsoft bashing. I like both platforms for different things. Competition is good, and I would like to see both companies do well in our American economy.

1. Microsoft's first major sale was something called "Applesoft", which paid the bills for several years before IBM came visiting.
2. Apple licensed a variety of GUI-related technology from Xerox, paying for it with $1M in Apple stock.
3. Both Word and Excel were written for the Mac before they were ported to Windows; Apple sponsored their development, and then MS decided to seek greener pastures with its newly acquired Apple IP.
4. What 'saved' Apple in 1998 was probably MS writing a version of IE for the Mac; it allowed Apple time to generate WebKit and then Safari.
5. However, the $150M 'investment' by MS in Apple in 1998 saved Microsoft's ass with the USDoJ. The latter was moving toward an ATT-solution, and the stock sale persuaded the DoJ that MS wasn't quite maintaining a monopoly.

Cheers
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post #56 of 74
2/21/12 at 12:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisgoingon View Post

Doesn't this just amount to Microsoft's usual FUD? As in, see, eventually this product will be everything everybody wants, and will be so much better than everybody else, that they will just go out of business on their own and recommend us to all their current customers. Please wait for us to complete development...and design...and really, we are going to start working on this pretty soon...but whatever you do, don't buy any competing product because ours is going to be SO MUCH BETTER! And we'll give you a pony.

All that MS is presenting from their blog is the new SkyDrive for Windows 8 without bashing iCloud or any of the competitors' products. I don't see what's so FUD about it. If anything, you're the one who's creating this so called "FUD."
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post #57 of 74
2/21/12 at 2:52am
Just bring back iDisk and integrate it with iCloud.

Still using iDisk to upload any document of my choice and still using it to host my website.

Oh, please bring back My Gallery (from MobileMe), or at least let me view my Photo Stream whilst logged into iCloud...
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post #58 of 74
2/21/12 at 3:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

I've used SkyDrive a few times and found it to be cumbersome, slow and very poor. I switched to Dropbox last year and it's brilliant. Like night and day. If they offered a bit more than 2GB free more people would switch.

1. Sugarsync offers 5GB for free and has beaten DropBox in a number of head to head comparisons - and is much cheaper than DB for big storage.

2. MS is emulating Google in adding constant small upgrades to all their web products - Hotmail in particular is quite useful these days. Windows Live Office Docs look like Office '10 - and preserve features that Google Docs don't. (But there is weirdness there - the "open in Word" feature simple won't work for me - and managing files created there on SkyDrive is still clunky. But uploading files has gotten easier, e.g., and there are other improvements creeping in.

The craziest feature persists: You have to name a document on Skydrive before you can create it on Word, Powerpoint or Excel Live. I can't think of anywhere else I've encountered this on any computer system - and forget "Save as" for later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

no thanks. No crap Microsoft software on my mac...sorry. Skydrive is a garbage Dropbox clone.

Not a clone at all - it has a very different set of tricks - which will expand a lot on Win 8.

PS: Even if you don't run Office (and therefore have unnecessary difficulty sharing editable docs with most of the world), you may already have hidden bits of MS "stuff" on your Apple devices. Apple and MS both have reasons for wanting Apple things to work on MS hosted nets and services, even if Apple's are offensive and MS's are defensive. Get used to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

I tried Skydrive last year. It stinks. It wouldn't work very well. The navigation was nearly impossible to work with when trying to find files. Eventually when it was too difficult to use I deleted everything on it. The problem was that it took a long time to find the right links and tabs to get to the delete files button. I hated Microsoft before trying Skydrive. I now hate Microsoft even more.

Today I needed to use Vista for work. I booted it on the HP computer instead of Ubuntu. The damn OS didn't recognize the modem for some reason. I switched to Ubuntu to check the modem and it was fine. I rebooted into Vista and the modem was working again. I didn't change anything to cause it to stop working or start working again. I HATE MICROSOFT AND VISTA!!!!!!!!!

My momma taught me to never try and have a reasonable discussion with people who post statements containing the word "hate" in 48 or so point type. So I won't even try.

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #59 of 74
2/21/12 at 4:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoXoM View Post

Just bring back iDisk and integrate it with iCloud.

Still using iDisk to upload any document of my choice and still using it to host my website.

Oh, please bring back My Gallery (from MobileMe), or at least let me view my Photo Stream whilst logged into iCloud...

I agree entirely.

I ask that everyone who misses these features make a feature request at http://www.apple.com/feedback/icloud.html
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post #60 of 74
2/21/12 at 5:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpediem302 View Post

Your forgetting part of the history. If it was not for Bill Gates, there would be no apple as we see it today period! Steve Jobs stole from xerox. When apple was on deaths doorsteps Microsoft gave Apple a substantial cash infusion, plus developed office for the mac to attract users to the platform. I am tired of the Microsoft bashing. I like both platforms for different things. Competition is good, and I would like to see both companies do well in our American economy.

Ah, this fantasy again. No, Microsoft did not save Apple. Microsoft made a small investment in Apple, that is all. Steve Jobs did not steal from xerox. Apple paid Xerox for use of the technology.

Microsoft deserves to be bashed. They copy everything Apple does, their OS and Office suite are outrageously over priced, they have an illegally obtained monopoly on OS and Office Productivity software, they use their monopoly to push their crappy services like Bing, Hotmail, IE, Skydrive, etc...

I hope Microsoft fails and goes bankrupt. that would be best for our economy as their would be actual fair competition
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post #61 of 74
2/21/12 at 5:20am
[QUOTE=AppleInsider;2051428]Microsoft is readying a significant update to SkyDrive in Windows 8, and reportedly leaked screenshots of the revamped file syncing and cloud storage service show that a Mac OS X client could be poised to compete with Apple's iCloud.


What??? Who is poised to compete with who?
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post #62 of 74
2/21/12 at 5:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

I hope Microsoft fails and goes bankrupt. that would be best for our economy as their would be actual fair competition

We'll be bones and earth long before that ever happens.

Get some perspective, you'll be happier for it.
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post #63 of 74
2/21/12 at 5:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by macminiwii View Post

What??? Who is poised to compete with who?

Well... No one really.

Microsoft continues to expand their cloud services. That isn't really directly competing with anything.

Microsoft offer apps for iOS, OSX and Android to access files sync'd to SkyDrive. They are improving these apps. Again this isn't really directly competing with anything, except maybe other apps that offer access to SkyDrive (I'm not aware of any, although I assume they exist).

What the article is saying is "here is something analogous to iCloud for Windows users, BTW they also offer access to files from iOS/OSX"
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post #64 of 74
2/21/12 at 5:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisgoingon View Post

Doesn't this just amount to Microsoft's usual FUD? As in, see, eventually this product will be everything everybody wants, and will be so much better than everybody else, that they will just go out of business on their own and recommend us to all their current customers. Please wait for us to complete development...and design...and really, we are going to start working on this pretty soon...but whatever you do, don't buy any competing product because ours is going to be SO MUCH BETTER! And we'll give you a pony.



You had me at FUD.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #65 of 74
2/21/12 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpediem302 View Post

Your forgetting part of the history. If it was not for Bill Gates, there would be no apple as we see it today period! Steve Jobs stole from xerox. When apple was on deaths doorsteps Microsoft gave Apple a substantial cash infusion, plus developed office for the mac to attract users to the platform. I am tired of the Microsoft bashing. I like both platforms for different things. Competition is good, and I would like to see both companies do well in our American economy.

You really should study up on your history and give up on the revisionist version out of MS!
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #66 of 74
2/21/12 at 6:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

A "friend"?

Honestly - Scout's honour dib dab dob and all that. I didn't get round to uploading my pics
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post #67 of 74
2/21/12 at 7:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

I agree entirely.

I ask that everyone who misses these features make a feature request at http://www.apple.com/feedback/icloud.html

If you are going to wish for things Apple discontinued, you could add the iCards or whatever they were called to the list, but it will be a waste of electrons sending a request to feedback.
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post #68 of 74
2/21/12 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

1. Sugarsync offers 5GB for free and has beaten DropBox in a number of head to head comparisons - and is much cheaper than DB for big storage.

The biggest problem with Sugarsync (which I use) is the lack of block-level synch. If you change 1 character in a 30 MB Word document, the whole file goes up and down to every device. If you are a frequent saver, working in large documents can eat a lot of bandwidth (especially relevant if you have bw caps).

They seem very quiet about it. The questions are on the support boards. No answer. I have posed my own Q's and sent email to tech support. They will never respond and acknowledge the lack of block-level sync. However, it's as easy to know it's not there. Just leave the file transfer status open and make a tiny change to a big file. The whole thing goes up & down to all devices.
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post #69 of 74
2/21/12 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

You need to read the latest info.

It looks like the next SkyDrive release does most of the stuff you mention for Windows devices.

I suppose it's like a cross between iCloud and DropBox with a few extra bits thrown in.

So it makes the WP7 devices more competitive, which is great, but it doesn't make SkyDrive a competitor to iCloud.

My point was that the headline "Microsoft to challenge iCloud with SkyDrive OS X client", as well as the statement "It remains to be seen which Windows 8 SkyDrive features will be implemented in the rumored Mac client, if any, and to what extent the service will affect iCloud." implies that SkyDrive could somehow surplant iCloud on Mac and/or iOS devices, which it cannot. The article also attempts to draw a parallel between the services by pointing out a hack that lets you abuse the service for DropBox-like functionality, ignoring the fact that file sharing is not the intended purpose of iCloud.
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post #70 of 74
2/21/12 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

So let me get this straight...

You browse to a folder and decide you want to delete it, but you couldn't see the links indicated here:


Or maybe you tried to select a file and delete it, but you couldn't see the links indicated here:

It wasn't set up that way last year. I read all the links on the pages at the time. The way I had to do it was through other links that took me to a page with the correct buttons to delete the files. The delete button was actually in a right click menu. It wasn't on the page.

Your smugness would apply if the pages were laid out that way when I tried their service, but it has been wasted. Thanks for going to the trouble to be smug. It was amusing.
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post #71 of 74
2/21/12 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

My momma taught me to never try and have a reasonable discussion with people who post statements containing the word "hate" in 48 or so point type. So I won't even try.

Do you know anybody who has tried OSX who would rather use Vista? Part of the money I paid for that computer went to Microsoft for Vista. Most people who have commented on boards like this believe Vista was a huge rip-off. It was worse than beta software yet it was sold to the public as a complete OS. I think the word hate applies very aptly towards a company that knowingly ripped-off millions of people and businesses. I could document at least forty hours on the telephone with HP support to get things in Vista to work. Vista problems have probably cost the economy billions of dollars in lost productivity. That deserves a criminal investigation.

When I tried Skydrive it just reinforced my opinion of Microsoft products. Obviously it has been improved since I tried it but that isn't enough to make me want to use it. I pay for Box.net sharing and use Dropbox to synchronize files across three operating systems. Those work for me.
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post #72 of 74
2/21/12 at 12:10pm
I agree with those who said that Skydrive is more like a drop box. Nobody can compete with iCloud because nobody has deep access to iOS like Apple does. At most, Skydrive can be an app, but only Apple can give iCloud deep integration across all products, including what will probably be the upcoming TV.

And for no reason at all, I will include this icon which I think is super spiffy:
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post #73 of 74
2/21/12 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

Microsoft will win this one. Apple just doesn't know how to run stable Internet services. Sorry but iTunes and the appStore do not count.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

iCloud utilises AWS and Azure. I'm sure Apple will continue to bring more stuff in-house, but they always have those two solid mature cloud platforms to fall back on if something goes wrong.

What do you think the chances are of Microsoft utilising AWS or Google App Engine if something goes wrong

Let's not forget the Danger debacle, cause that was such overwhelming proof of Microsoft's superior cloud know how over Apple.
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post #74 of 74
2/22/12 at 1:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

This looks closer to Dropbox, than iCloud.

The mains benefit of iCloud, like MobileMe before it:
  • Email
  • To-Do
  • Calendar
  • Bookmarks
  • Notes
  • EVERYWHERE
  • AUTOMATICALLY

And iCloud also has the added benefits of:
  • iTunes Match (at additional cost)
  • iOS Device Backups
  • Photo Stream
  • Documents and Data (to share across devices).
  • Deep OS integration (iOS and Mac OS X)

Unless SkyDrive can do this, which it can't and never will be able to, it's not even close to competition.

SkyDrive and Dropbox are DATA STORAGE, iCloud is way more than JUST data storage.

That's only true when you include just the items under the "Skydrive" name. To get SkyDrive you need a windows live login and if you have one with hotmail then you do have Email, ToDo and Calendar.

The Everywhere and Automatically really depend what your devices are. If your nothing but Apple then of course Automatically is only possible with iCloud as Apple don't support anything else. If you have 1 non Apple device though your not Everywhere as iCloud isn't availiable on other platforms. With SkyDrive though you are still everywhere. So that's the main difference, on there own devices they are both Automatic and everywhere, on other devices neither are automatic and iCloud just isn't there at all.
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