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'iPad 3' rumored to launch in Germany on March 23 - Page 2

post #41 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

SMS was designed for text-based communications over cell networks. There is a reason SMS was originally 160 characters. It is talking to its cell phone tower over a pathway called a control channel. The control channel also provides the pathway for SMS messages. When a friend sends you an SMS message, the message flows through the SMSC, then to the tower, and the tower sends the message to your phone as a little packet of data on the control channel. In the same way, when you send a message, your phone sends it to the tower on the control channel and it goes from the tower to the SMSC and from there to its destination. Anything outside of that is being switched. Eventually SMS will die off as IP networks take over with the voice channel for phones being over IP as well. We're seeing it now with Apple's iMessages. iMessages aren't SMS simply because they are going between phones just as emails aren't SMS simply because they are text between phones.

if a featured phone that only has sms and voice can receive sms from google voice, I would consider it sms.

SMS is still only 160 characters. Servers/phone break it up for you automatically.

Lets not talk about iMessages as it requires data on both ends. Its no better than a chat program. Its irrelevant.
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post #42 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It also gets pushed via IP to other SMS servers, even within the same MNO. Those packets are encapsulated.

Q: Do you think that iMessages is SMS because it can be sent and received on your phone?

For years I have been able to send an SMS to a phone from iChat using my AIM account. I know that Apple and AIM are working together behind the scenes to deliver that SMS to the phone so I consider it an SMS. How many ones and zeros it uses is not important to me. For all intents and purposes it is an SMS.

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post #43 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It also gets pushed via IP to other SMS servers, even within the same MNO. Those packets are encapsulated. All Google is doing is maintaining servers that are intermediaries between the networks. Your carrier is still needed for SMS but Google can forward an SMS as a text message.

Q: Do you think that iMessages is SMS because it can be sent and received on your phone?


no one brought up iMessages but you. its a failed arguement. iMessage is not SMS
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post #44 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

So now being accurate is somehow wrong?


I do care, because I care about accuracy. I don't care for liars, trolls or those spreading FUD because they have some ill-placed hate for a company yet frequent a forum that is about said company.


It's ideological reasons but go ahead and slander. My question to you is why can't not like the way carriers gauge customers for SMS -and- know how the fuck it works.


If you care about how things work you will care. If you are on a tech-based forum I'd expect that overwhelming majority would care how things work. Of course there will always be people like you and DaHarder that have no interest in how things work just so long as they you can spin it into Apple is doomed!


If you don't care how things work then you shouldn't be telling others how they work. If you do change your mind and actually care about having a mature conversation about technology let us know.

Personal attacks is not mature.

It just works. Isnt that an apple mantra? That is like caring about specs vs user experience.
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post #45 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

For year I have been able to send an SMS to a phone from iChat using my AIM account. I know that Apple and AIM are working together behind the scenes to deliver that SMS to the phone so I consider it an SMS. How many ones and zeros it uses is not important to me. For all intents and purposes it is an SMS.

AOL clearly has SMSC servers but do you really think that message that leaves your AIM app is going over the control channel of your cellular phone? I sure hope not. Remember this was designed when data on phones wasn't around or common so it was a way to send small packets of text to other phones. They simply are not the same and look nothing alike when you break apart the data. It's about the protocols being used, not the number of 1's and 0's.

I feel like I'm telling people that HSPA isn't the same as WiFi but being told they are because they are both wireless. There are very distinct differences even if you use many devices as a gateway to create a Personal Hotspot but that don't mean that WiFi is HPSA and vice verse. Technology simply don't work that way.

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post #46 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post

no one brought up iMessages but you. its a failed arguement. iMessage is not SMS

But you can send messages between phones so surely they must be¡

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post #47 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

AOL clearly has SMSC servers but do you really think that message that leaves your AIM app is going over the control channel of your cellular phone? I sure hope not. Remember this was designed when data on phones wasn't around or common so it was a way to send small packets of text to other phones. They simply are not the same and look nothing alike when you break apart the data.

I feel like I'm telling people that HSPA isn't the same as WiFi but being told they are because they are both wireless. There are very distinct differences even if you use many devices as a gateway to create a Personal Hotspot but that don't mean that WiFi is HPSA and vice verse. Technology simply don't work that way.

Ok have it your way. I want to send some 'unnamed thing' that looks exactly like an SMS from my computer to a cell phone... and I can.

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post #48 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Ok have it your way. I want to send some 'unnamed thing' that looks exactly like an SMS from my computer to a cell phone... and I can.

Then that describes iMessages to a tee, it even melds in with SMS part of the app on the iPhone, yet I was just told that you can't call iMessages SMS even though that person previously defined SMS in a way that included iMessages.

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post #49 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

But you can send messages between phones so surely they must be¡

I believe that is your argument you are trying to argue against which is a fail.
Printed emails via usps and iMessage.

That fact that you can send and receive sms from google voice to a dumb phone that does not require data service clearly shows that google voice does a translation to make it compliant to send that message using sms protocol
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post #50 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

So now being accurate is somehow wrong?


I do care, because I care about accuracy. I don't care for liars, trolls or those spreading FUD because they have some ill-placed hate for a company yet frequent a forum that is about said company.


It's ideological reasons but go ahead and slander. My question to you is why can't not like the way carriers gauge customers for SMS -and- know how the fuck it works.


If you care about how things work you will care. If you are on a tech-based forum I'd expect that overwhelming majority would care how things work. Of course there will always be people like you and DaHarder that have no interest in how things work just so long as they you can spin it into Apple is doomed!


If you don't care how things work then you shouldn't be telling others how they work. If you do change your mind and actually care about having a mature conversation about technology let us know.

Unless you actually are Newt Gingrich (and I am not convinced you are not), I am guessing if you two ever met you would be either best friends for life or kill each other within an hour.

Hate Apple? I have been using nothing but Apple computers since 1982. You made an idiotic comment and instead of just letting it go and accepting the fact that most reasonable people accept the fact that you can send and receive texts from an iPad over WiFi you start some insane argument to defend your position. I have been on these forums for years and have observed time and time again you belittling and disparaging other people for no other reason than they dare disagree with Apple or you. Take a Xanax and relax a little. It really is not that serious.
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post #51 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post

I believe that is your argument you are trying to argue against which is a fail.
Printed emails via usps and iMessage.

That fact that you can send and receive sms from google voice to a dumb phone that does not require data service clearly shows that google voice does a translation to make it compliant to send that message using sms protoco!

Which is what I stated. Finally you agree!

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post #52 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

Unless you actually are Newt Gingrich (and I am not convinced you are not), I am guessing if you two ever met you would be either best friends for life or kill each other within an hour.

Hate Apple? I have been using nothing but Apple computers since 1982. You made an idiotic comment and instead of just letting it go and accepting the fact that most reasonable people accept the fact that you can send and receive texts from an iPad over WiFi you start some insane argument to defend your position. I have been on these forums for years and have observed time and time again you belittling and disparaging other people for no other reason than they dare disagree with Apple or you. Take a Xanax and relax a little. It really is not that serious.

1) I see where you're belittling but where did I belittle you.

2) Now you say texts instead of SMS. If by now you don't see how all SMS are texts but not all texts are SMS then there is nothing I can say to make you understand this 30 year old tech.

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post #53 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Which is what I stated. Finally you agree!


You've stated many many things. Mainly argumentative things that you have stated. I never argued google voice did not do any translation. Argument was google voice message considered sms which it is. You argue it isnt sms.
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post #54 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post

You've stated many many things. Mainly argumentative things that you have stated. I never argued google voice did not do any translation. Argument was google voice message considered sms which it is. You argue it isnt sms.

I stated many thinks backed up by facts. You stated many opinions that refused to do a modicum of research to see that everything I stated was true. I clearly stated that Google Voice relates to SMS but to say that they entire path is SMS even when you receive it as an email is axiomatically false. There is no way that can be true from a technological point of view.

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post #55 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Then that describes iMessages to a tee, it even melds in with SMS part of the app on the iPhone, yet I was just told that you can't call iMessages SMS even though that person previously defined SMS in a way that included iMessages.

Let's define the terms as the cellphone being a dumb phone with txt plan. The computer should be any computer, say one running Fedora core, no iMessage involved. I know it works because I have built that exact SMS server in my studio and researched the pricing structure for SMS bulk plans for which there are several third party vendors. I chose not to use their bulk plans because they start at 500 messages a month but instead pay on a per use case.

The SMS message goes to the vendor over the Internet not through my cell phone. I use this for one of my real estate friends for their rentals. Not my core business but I set it up for them since I know a bit about UNIX programming. The vendor sends me a message over the Internet which is coming from a cell phone sent to a special six character code. I process the request and send a reply to the vendor who passes it back to the the originating phone user.

No iMessage.

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post #56 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:41pm
It's hilarious. The blatant troll posts get deleted while the article still remains ignored in favor of an argument over a slightly less blatant trolling post.

Not trolling, rather, just completely detached from reality.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
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post #57 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It's hilarious. The blatant troll posts get deleted while the article still remains ignored in favor of an argument over a slightly less blatant trolling post.

Not trolling, rather, just completely detached from reality.

Not really. Who doesn't want to be able to send SMS from their iPad?

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post #58 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Not really. Who doesn't want to be able to send SMS from their iPad?

Me. SMS can't die fast enough for my taste. The less money the telecoms can extort from us, the better.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
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post #59 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I stated many thinks backed up by facts. You stated many opinions that refused to do a modicum of research to see that everything I stated was true. I clearly stated that Google Voice relates to SMS but to say that they entire path is SMS even when you receive it as an email is axiomatically false. There is no way that can be true from a technological point of view.


Here you go again adding another augmentative point that you no one stated but you.
"when you receive it as an email is axiomatically false" No one went there.
You only get it as an email from google voice if you have settings forwarded to your email.
You can have google voice forward that sms to a dumb phone via sms.

Dont get hung up on the last mile part of sms. There many forms of sms that require different protocols when using plmn or pstn.
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post #60 of 71
2/21/12 at 4:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It's hilarious. The blatant troll posts get deleted while the article still remains ignored in favor of an argument over a slightly less blatant trolling post.

Not trolling, rather, just completely detached from reality.

gotta keep this story alive among the many ai has released even though we dont talk about it cause its a rumor
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post #61 of 71
2/21/12 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post

Here you go again adding another augmentative point that you no one stated but you.
"when you receive it as an email is axiomatically false" No one went there.
You only get it as an email from google voice if you have settings forwarded to your email.
You can have google voice forward that sms to a dumb phone via sms.

Dont get hung up on the last mile part of sms. There many forms of sms that require different protocols when using plmn or pstn.

gwmac clearly stated that you can send and receive SMS to and from an iPad with WiFi. No one has argued I've even defended that sending from and receiving a text message on dumb phone over the carrier ontrol channel is SMS.

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post #62 of 71
2/21/12 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Me. SMS can't die fast enough for my taste. The less money the telecoms can extort from us, the better.

$20 bucks isn't going to break the bank, especially for the convenience it offers.

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post #63 of 71
2/21/12 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

gwmac clearly stated that you can send and receive SMS to and from an iPad with WiFi. No one has argued I've even defended that sending from and receiving a text message on dumb phone over the carrier ontrol channel is SMS.

Ive been arguing your statement that sms fails to be sms once it gets translated which is utterly false
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post #64 of 71
2/21/12 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post

Ive been arguing your statement that sms fails to be sms once it gets translated which is utterly false

No you haven't otherwise you wouldn't have then moved the goal posts to state only two dumb phones using Google Voice. And considering the the original comment was about an iPad with WiFi your comment is double wrong.

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post #65 of 71
2/22/12 at 1:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

No you haven't otherwise you wouldn't have then moved the goal posts to state only two dumb phones using Google Voice. And considering the the original comment was about an iPad with WiFi your comment is double wrong.

The argument was messages sent from google voice still sms even going through ip.
You used the example of printing email and send usps and I replied it would be if usps then retyped that email and send it I received in my email in box. No argument from you cause your exampled failed.

You then tried to argue that sms had a certain protocol which made it sms with 160 character limits and that messages translated wasnt sms anymore. I explained that sms uses a few different protocols when dealing with PLMN or PSTN including tcp/ip. You were hung up last mile delivery methods only. You even introduce iMessage as an argument and how thats what google voice resembles and how notifications via email can never be SMS. Again you introduce arguments not made by me but yourself and argue against it. Again fail.
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post #66 of 71
2/22/12 at 9:03am
Anyone want a beer before the next round?
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post #67 of 71
2/22/12 at 6:45pm
i want messages app (which is going to be release for ML which include other protocols like google talk, yahoo and other jabber) for iOS too… i want them to sync the same way they sync for iMessages for all the texts from mobile number msgs, google talk msgs, and all the other jabber protocols (if they can include msn too)…

my way or the highway...

Macbook Pro i7 13" with intel SSD 320 series and 8GB RAM, iPhone 5, iPad 3 (Retina)

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my way or the highway...

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post #68 of 71
2/23/12 at 7:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutykamu View Post

i want messages app (which is going to be release for ML which include other protocols like google talk, yahoo and other jabber) for iOS too

You've forgotten AIM, which is the only thing they'd ever actually add to the iOS app.
PhilBoogie
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post #69 of 71
2/23/12 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You've forgotten AIM, which is the only thing they'd ever actually add to the iOS app.

i think if they will add AIM, surely they will add other IM client supports which right now ichat is having.
by the way i hate that iMessages doesn't syncs the messages which i get on my iPhone mobile number. i hope they will add that too.

my way or the highway...

Macbook Pro i7 13" with intel SSD 320 series and 8GB RAM, iPhone 5, iPad 3 (Retina)

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my way or the highway...

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post #70 of 71
2/24/12 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutykamu View Post

i think if they will add AIM, surely they will add other IM client supports which right now ichat is having.

But why? AIM and iMessage are the Apple systems. I don't want my iDevices bogged down with Google Talk crap, Facebook chat, Jabber, and anything else. The idea is to move everyone to iMessage and have free messages for everyone. Kill off AIM, Google, Facebook, Jabber, MSN, and even SMS in one fell swoop.

Quote:
by the way i hate that iMessages doesn't syncs the messages which i get on my iPhone mobile number. i hope they will add that too.

That's a bug for you. It's supposed to do that; try resetting your accounts and setting them back up. Unless you mean 'doesn't sync my SMS', in which case of course it doesn't do that.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #71 of 71
2/24/12 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

But why? AIM and iMessage are the Apple systems. I don't want my iDevices bogged down with Google Talk crap, Facebook chat, Jabber, and anything else. The idea is to move everyone to iMessage and have free messages for everyone. Kill off AIM, Google, Facebook, Jabber, MSN, and even SMS in one fell swoop.

I'm not following. AIM isn't an Apple system, it's just the first 3rd-party IM service that Apple teamed with and the one they actually colluded with insofar that @mac.com addresses could be used as AIM names.

As for being bogged down, you simply don't add the services you don't want to use just like in Adium or iChat/Messages.

Quote:
That's a bug for you. It's supposed to do that; try resetting your accounts and setting them back up. Unless you mean 'doesn't sync my SMS', in which case of course it doesn't do that.

The solution is for users to switch from using their phone number to their email address for the iMessages Caller ID in Settings.

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