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Safari user sues Google over claimed privacy violation - Page 2

post #41 of 108
Oh ok, well I want in as soon as it becomes class action. I HATE Google. Never really did like them at all to begin with, I mostly used other search engines but still used theirs once in a while. Up until Steve Jobs confirmed what I already figured. That Android was a stolen idea. I haven't been to Google site in 2 yrs! And I havent been to Facebooks site in almost 2 yrs either
post #42 of 108
I'm not blaming Apple per se, but I'm thinking that if the exploit has been around long enough that it's apparently 'common practice' among scummy advertisers, then I don't understand why Apple is only hearing about it since the tech blogs have brought it to the public's attention.

Tallest Skil - a protected cookie option would be stellar! As for who wants to click 20 boxes before visiting a website, well today, I would. Between my last post and this one, I cleared my cookies, rebooted my computer, and then returned to AppleInsider.

It loaded fifteen 3rd party cookies, to get from the main page to this thread:
Quote:
advertising.com
bestlistonline.info
bkrtx.com
bluekai.com
cdnlayer.com
digg.com
exponential.com
fastclick.com
fmpub.net
google-analytics.com
google.com
googleapis.com
googlesyndication.com
gstatic.com
industrybrains.com

What the heck?! Why even have a setting for 'block cookies from third parties' if it's not going to, say, block cookies from third parties? Are all of those being loaded via this google exploit?

The only site I've been to since clearing them was this one... I'd have liked the opportunity to see the one Appleinsider cookie (allow) and fifteen more (deny).

Edited to add: while typing my post, I removed those fifteen. Submitting the post earned me five of the cookies back in again:
Quote:
bestlistonline.info
bkrtx.com
bluekai.com
cdnlayer.com
google-analytics.com
post #43 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Interesting read: http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/21/the-last-alliance/

I agree, Apple and Microsoft should definitely form an alliance and go after Google. Oracle can join in too. Plenty of companies should be suing Google and going after them.

Microsoft is no threat at all to Apple today and energy is better spent on going after the real enemies and those who deserve to be taken down.
post #44 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDavid311 View Post

Oh ok, well I want in as soon as it becomes class action. I HATE Google. Never really did like them at all to begin with, I mostly used other search engines but still used theirs once in a while. Up until Steve Jobs confirmed what I already figured. That Android was a stolen idea. I haven't been to Google site in 2 yrs! And I havent been to Facebooks site in almost 2 yrs either

You haven't been to a Google site in 2 yrs? I'm sorry, but that's very hard to believe, and sounds literally impossible. You do realize that Google owns youtube, right? Among a million other things.
post #45 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

You do realize that Google owns youtube, right? Among a million other things.

Some people don't waste their time with other people's home movies.

Originally Posted by asdasd

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Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #46 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atashi View Post

I'm not blaming Apple per se, but I'm thinking that if the exploit has been around long enough that it's apparently 'common practice' among scummy advertisers, then I don't understand why Apple is only hearing about it since the tech blogs have brought it to the public's attention.

What the heck?! Why even have a setting for 'block cookies from third parties' if it's not going to, say, block cookies from third parties? Are all of those being loaded via this google exploit?

The only site I've been to since clearing them was this one... I'd have liked the opportunity to see the one Appleinsider cookie (allow) and fifteen more (deny).

Edited to add: while typing my post, I removed those fifteen. Submitting the post earned me five of the cookies back in again:

According to the WSJ, Google disabled the "workaround" a few days ago after being outed and no longer uses it. The cookie reloading issue you have probably isn't due to Google now. More likely the same trick that Google used is still in action served up by various other websites.

EDIT: I was searching background on Stanford researcher Jonathan Mayer who reported Google's use of the Safari backdoor (apparently first blogged about a couple of years ago? And Apple had no idea?) and see that this cookie-fest isn't his first. He's apparently a well-regarded expert having outed Microsoft in August last year for it's use of Super-cookies. Nearly impossible to delete and with no opt-out button for . . . Safari or Google's Chrome? Like Google they said it was unintentional of course.
http://www.geek.com/articles/news/mi...s-it-20110822/
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #47 of 108
Blocking cookies is silly. It's a string of text sent from the browser to a server with each request. A cookie for a particular server may only be modified by that particular server. ie; "adserver.google.com"

Does this mean Google can 'track' where you go? Nope. The website you're browsing has to first embed data from Google, and then either your browser or the website must tell Google where you currently are.

Furthermore this issue is over 'P3P'; yet another standard the W3 is trying to force upon the internet which no one actually uses or even is aware of. http://www.w3.org/P3P/ -- they're not even working on it anymore. It's hardly Google's fault if the browsers give them permission to do something the idio--users are afraid of simply because Google ignored the standard.

If you're getting angry over Google setting some text that is sent with requests to their servers; you're either irrational & uninformed or a complete idiot. This is just scum profiting off of your ignorance.
post #48 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Bullshit! Do you have a 5" Android piece of shit phone in your pocket, which led you to make such an outrageous and ridiculous post?

This is a blatant abuse of privacy and trust, far worse than any so-called outrage or scandal that Apple has been involved in.

For example, I have no problems with having my credit card linked to my Apple ID. No way in hell would I ever do the same when it comes to Google, because I simply do not trust them.

Nope, have an iPhone 4s. What led me to the conclusion? A brain, and a healthy dose of rationality. Look into it.

Were you ready to burn Apple to the ground when they were collecting your location information and keeping a long history of it? Are you ready to burn every other website down that does the same thing, and not just single out Google as if they are uniquely doing something sneaky? All this rage here is usually so one sided and ridiculous, just because of the stupid Google/Apple competition. Do you want to log in to every website and have no shared credentials, like or +1 buttons, or easy bottons to post links to various social media. Do you.. oh never mind, I just give up.

/Flame suit on. Tin foil hat off.
post #49 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepro View Post

Do you want to log in to every website and have no shared credentials, like or +1 buttons, or easy bottons to post links to various social media. Do you.. oh never mind, I just give up.

+1 buttons, like buttons? I'm sorry, but I'm not 14 years old, and no, I do not want any credentials shared across any websites and no I do not need any easy buttons to post links to various social media.
post #50 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The technique with IE is different from the technique with Safari. In both cases the vendor of the browser is ultimately the one who let it happen. Not saying there may be some legal issues for Google but the browsers left the door open by mistake. In the case of Firefox they left the door open on purpose.

So if you leave your door unlocked, it's OK for a burglar to come in and take your things? Glad you cleared that up.

What Google did was to install something on your computer without permission - and then steal private information without permission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruda View Post

Google's don't be evil mantra is bullsh*t.

Google has a horrible privacy rights record. Trying to ween myself off but their search engine is still the best, imo.

There used to be a site called Google Watch, but it appears to have been taken down. It listed dozens of Google's more blatant transgressions.

This one's still available:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Watch#Google_Watch

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepro View Post

Everybody hop on the burn Google bandwagon!! Most people are blowing this waaay out of proportion, either due to ignorance, misunderstanding, or an over eager willingness to bash google. Ridiculous.

Or maybe people care about integrity and honesty and don't appreciate Google's endless violations of privacy and intellectual property.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDavid311 View Post

Oh ok, well I want in as soon as it becomes class action. I HATE Google. Never really did like them at all to begin with, I mostly used other search engines but still used theirs once in a while. Up until Steve Jobs confirmed what I already figured. That Android was a stolen idea. I haven't been to Google site in 2 yrs! And I havent been to Facebooks site in almost 2 yrs either

I'd also join in a minute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

According to the WSJ, Google disabled the "workaround" a few days ago after being outed and no longer uses it. The cookie reloading issue you have probably isn't due to Google now. More likely the same trick that Google used is still in action served up by various other websites.

When did Google start becoming a source that one should believe? They've been caught in so many lies (see the above site) that it would be foolish to listen to them.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #51 of 108
Google should remember their motto: Dont get caught being evil."
post #52 of 108
Screw up
Use duckduckgo.com with Safari, not Google Search
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Use duckduckgo.com with Safari, not Google Search
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #53 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Screw up

And all five Windows Safari users (myself included), should joi… hey, you edited it.

Originally Posted by asdasd

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Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #54 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

+1 buttons, like buttons? I'm sorry, but I'm not 14 years old, and no, I do not want any credentials shared across any websites and no I do not need any easy buttons to post links to various social media.

Me neither!

But there’s a middle option too, that Google/Facebook/etc. could have used: offer those buttons for logged-in users to have for their visible, public purpose... while also bringing added mindshare (pervasive mini-ads) for Google/Facebook... but do NOT give them a little-known stealthy THIRD function, behind the scenes, of tracking people’s actions so the data can be logged forever and sold to advertisers. (Even people, I might add, who aren’t even logged in and have never had Google/Facebook accounts.)
post #55 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'm curious why Google didn't do this to Firefox, Opera, and the rest.

In before "Chrome is WebKit and Safari is WebKit2, so Google would know the absolute ins and outs of Safari better than any others and therefore would be able to circumvent its stuff more easily," because I've already thought of that.

Google just wants to give Safari users the "Full Google Experience" of having your web surfing habits constantly monitored.

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #56 of 108
Still no slappy ? :-(
post #57 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Still no slappy ? :-(

He was put on a time out.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #58 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Still no slappy ? :-(

He was banned. No slapppy ever again.

Originally Posted by asdasd

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Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #59 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

You haven't been to a Google site in 2 yrs? I'm sorry, but that's very hard to believe, and sounds literally impossible. You do realize that Google owns youtube, right? Among a million other things.

Yes, Im well aware they own Youtube. Of course Ive seen Youtube vids recently, but not on my computers. I dont have time to waste watching other peoples home movies. Google does own alot, but not everything! I dont even have a Facebook acct. I dont get what people see in following everyone elses drama!
post #60 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDavid311 View Post

Yes, Im well aware they own Youtube. Of course Ive seen Youtube vids recently, but not on my computers. I dont have time to waste watching other peoples home movies. Google does own alot, but not everything! I dont even have a Facebook acct. I dont get what people see in following everyone elses drama!

Interestingly Mountain Lion has links to upload videos to Vimeo... but not YouTube.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #61 of 108
Apple's suing all the competitor pants off. they are acting like MS in 1980.

Did anyone sue apple for storing users GPS data on the device and transferring to server , and few other stuff still unknown.
post #62 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Interestingly Mountain Lion has links to upload videos to Vimeo... but not YouTube.

I quote John Gruber (rather John quoting an Apple rep):
Quote:
When asked why there was no YouTube support at the moment in the developer preview, Apple told Pocket-lint: We have Vimeo, and we dont have YouTube.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo View Post

Apple's suing all the competitor pants off. they are acting like MS in 1980.

Apple is not suing Google - they never have. Read the OP - this is a civil suit involving a Safari user who is suing Google. Apple is not involved.
post #63 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo View Post

Apple's suing all the competitor pants off. they are acting like MS in 1980.

Who was MS suing in the 80s? One of the tech lawsuits of the 80s was Apple suing MS over the "look and feel" of Windows 2.0 but we know how that eventually ended.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #64 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Some people don't waste their time with other people's home movies.

Youtube has become quite a bit more than home movies, but I digress. I don't believe anyone who uses a computer on a daily basis can refrain from clicking on a youtube link for 2 years.
post #65 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepro View Post

Nope, have an iPhone 4s. What led me to the conclusion? A brain, and a healthy dose of rationality. Look into it.

Were you ready to burn Apple to the ground when they were collecting your location information and keeping a long history of it? Are you ready to burn every other website down that does the same thing, and not just single out Google as if they are uniquely doing something sneaky? All this rage here is usually so one sided and ridiculous, just because of the stupid Google/Apple competition. Do you want to log in to every website and have no shared credentials, like or +1 buttons, or easy bottons to post links to various social media. Do you.. oh never mind, I just give up.

/Flame suit on. Tin foil hat off.

I agree that there's been perhaps more sensationalism than needed from some people, but in response to your last set of questions- +1, liking, and the ability to sam social media sites wherever I am adds exactly zero value to me. So no, I won't lose sleep about seeing any of that crap gone.
post #66 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atashi View Post

One thing I haven't read in all the threads about this is, how can we fix it? Is Apple going to fix it? Is there a setting or something we can tweak?

I've manually gone through the cookies on my iMac and weeded them from 2500+ down to about 40 "legitimate" ones.

It makes me very unhappy that after manually deleting a bunch of crap, after an hour of browsing there's another 50 cookies from sites I did not visit [...]

Why do out keep any cookies? If you really need them, you can be sure they'll be put back when you do. Even if you don't need them.

In fact, I flush everything using the Safari Reset command at least once a day. More often than that if I'm doing anything sensitive, like entering my credit card to pay bills online & such. I keep a window on my desktop to flush out all the Flash cookies at the same time since the Reset command doesn't get rid of those. Never seems to cause me any trouble.

And NO WAY have I ever or will I ever have anything to do with gmail or google docs. I do confess it would be hard to give up google Earth though...
post #67 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Interesting read: http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/21/the-last-alliance/

There's Something About Larry people don't like, I guess.
post #68 of 108
DuckDuckGo for search, GMX.com for email, all I need to do is dump this pos Android phone and I'll be done with Google. And I won't miss them or their views on my privacy.
My Android phone is the worst phone I've ever owned.
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My Android phone is the worst phone I've ever owned.
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post #69 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I only chose to read it after you replied to TS. Otherwise I didn't have interest. You went to the trouble to post the link give us interest to click it, that's all I'm saying.



I've come across that, too. Even things like Disqus comment on Engadget are blocked by Ghostery. I wonder if that's intentional or if they are wrapping these ads and analytics so deep that it breaks parts of the pages if not loaded.

I find that MyVerizon is totally unusable with Ghostery on. Many more sites have acted this way too. I used these sites and everything worked when I first got Ghostery. I believe the Ads when not allowed to load are purposely disabling the other content on the page. It's not flash doing it since my clicktoflash works and doesn't have any adverse affects (pun intended).
post #70 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by deanbar View Post

Suggest you download "Little Snitch", it stops the tracking of any site you don't want tracking you.

I have it installed but this is a browser Javascript thing.
post #71 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

You haven't been to a Google site in 2 yrs? I'm sorry, but that's very hard to believe, and sounds literally impossible. You do realize that Google owns youtube, right? Among a million other things.

Agree. Google own too much on the Internet. And it not all Google fault. AI and just about every other high traffic site is making money by allow Google, Facebook, Twitter. etc. buttons on their pages. And this isn't even Google Ads or their search engine usage. It make me sick what all this commercializing of the Internet has done to own privacy.
post #72 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Youtube has become quite a bit more than home movies, but I digress. I don't believe anyone who uses a computer on a daily basis can refrain from clicking on a youtube link for 2 years.

Youtube is a good source of pirated music, if you want to rip the MP3 from an uploaded movie, there are plenty of browser extensions that will help you do it and because no-one has tried to stop it it must be legal, right?
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post #73 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Youtube is a good source of pirated music, if you want to rip the MP3 from an uploaded movie, there are plenty of browser extensions that will help you do it and because no-one has tried to stop it it must be legal, right?

I've "read" that you can easily get music videos in HD, too.

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post #74 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

It seems that what Google was doing was sneaky, scummy, backhanded and illegal!

And they did it to MS too! Why doesn't Apple and Microsoft join together and sue Google, for illegally exploiting both of their browsers?

Apple and Microsoft could sue as an injured party...

Quote:
And there should definitely be class action suits against Google for their illegal invasion of privacy, like the one mentioned in the OP.

...however the dude suing Google is claiming criminal conduct. If this plays out as it might, I know a couple Google executives that may get to play house with Bubba.

Either way, Google loses money and public prestige. Google stock holders may boot the big guys out and replace them with someone that will tend to the knitting better. It couldn't happen to a couple nicer guys.
post #75 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDavid311 View Post

... I HATE Google. Never really did like them at all to begin with, I mostly used other search engines but still used theirs once in a while. Up until Steve Jobs confirmed what I already figured. That Android was a stolen idea. I haven't been to Google site in 2 yrs! And I havent been to Facebooks site in almost 2 yrs either

Google is laughing at your efforts. You have to do a lot more than that to stay out of Google's "Eye of Sauron". ( It should be the "Eye of Google" ! )

Do you visit any web sites that contain Google's advertisements? If so, Google is tracking each and every one of your page views on those sites. And correlating them with your visits to other sites and everything else they gather.

Do you visit any web sites that use Google analytics? Millions of sites do, just do View Source on the home page of your favorite sites and look for "analytics". Google is tracking each and every one of your visits there as well.

You many not use gmail, but how many of your friends do? Do they email you? Oops, all those conversations belong to Google as well.

I could go on, but I think you get the picture. It's good that you're aware enough of the problem to not use their services directly - it's a start, but you need to do a lot more to be even a little bit effective. As someone else mentioned, Little Snitch is awesome. Also, learn how to use your /etc/hosts file to outright block things like google's analytics, doubleclick, etc.

Beyond those things, make sure to let your friends and family know about these things. The biggest thing Google has in its favor is people's ignorance. That can be solved by education.

You're welcome. ;-)
No Matte == No Sale :-(
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No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #76 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

You haven't been to a Google site in 2 yrs? I'm sorry, but that's very hard to believe, and sounds literally impossible. You do realize that Google owns youtube, right? Among a million other things.

I can't speak for the other dude, but this is the sole bit of Google's world I allow on/off my machine. I'd love for a competitor to come online that would compare with YouTube, but I don't see it in the near future.
No Matte == No Sale :-(
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No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #77 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepro View Post

Do you want to log in to every website and have no shared credentials, like or +1 buttons, or easy bottons to post links to various social media. Do you.. oh never mind, I just give up.

I think Apple][ sums up my opinion perfectly. Well, on this issue anyway. And we're not alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

+1 buttons, like buttons? I'm sorry, but I'm not 14 years old, and no, I do not want any credentials shared across any websites and no I do not need any easy buttons to post links to various social media.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Me neither!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

... in response to your last set of questions- +1, liking, and the ability to sam social media sites wherever I am adds exactly zero value to me. So no, I won't lose sleep about seeing any of that crap gone.

Shared credentials are a terrible idea. Born of people's sheer laziness, and lack of paying any attention whatsoever to the evils of personal profile data harvesting.
No Matte == No Sale :-(
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No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #78 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atashi View Post

One thing I haven't read in all the threads about this is, how can we fix it? Is Apple going to fix it? Is there a setting or something we can tweak?

I've manually gone through the cookies on my iMac and weeded them from 2500+ down to about 40 "legitimate" ones.

It makes me very unhappy that after manually deleting a bunch of crap, after an hour of browsing there's another 50 cookies from sites I did not visit - "Block cookies from 3rd parties and advertisers" seems to be completely and utterly broken / useless.

Why is there no option to have it just ask you for every cookie request if you want to allow or not? I'd like to see which sites I visit are playing these scummy games and sideloading cookies.

The "tweaks" have been available for years for Safari. I use Cookies, Incognito and Little Snitch. For this discussion to take place on a fairly techie site makes me wonder.
post #79 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo View Post

Apple's suing all the competitor pants off. they are acting like MS in 1980.

I'd suggest that you read the article before commenting. Apple isn't the one suing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo View Post

Did anyone sue apple for storing users GPS data on the device and transferring to server , and few other stuff still unknown.

Yes, Apple is being sued for that. The difference, of course, is that it was a bug which Apple acknowledged and fixed. Google, OTOH, has a long history of privacy violations. Their idea of fixing the problem is to find a different way to violate your privacy and hope that they won't get caught next time.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #80 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Interestingly Mountain Lion has links to upload videos to Vimeo... but not YouTube.

Precisely. And I wouldnt be surprised if we see Google Maps disappear and an "Apple owned" GPS app pop up on future iOS devices. Keep it up, Apple. Lets get rid of Google completely on all your devices. Backstabbers
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