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Safari user sues Google over claimed privacy violation - Page 3

post #81 of 108
2/22/12 at 5:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Youtube has become quite a bit more than home movies, but I digress. I don't believe anyone who uses a computer on a daily basis can refrain from clicking on a youtube link for 2 years.

It CAN be done, I know that for sure :-) I only touch my laptop like once a week now just to mess around with my iTunes acct. Been that way since I got my first iPhone LOL Everything I do online now is done on my phone!
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post #82 of 108
2/22/12 at 5:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

Google is laughing at your efforts. You have to do a lot more than that to stay out of Google's "Eye of Sauron". ( It should be the "Eye of Google" ! )

Do you visit any web sites that contain Google's advertisements? If so, Google is tracking each and every one of your page views on those sites. And correlating them with your visits to other sites and everything else they gather.

Do you visit any web sites that use Google analytics? Millions of sites do, just do View Source on the home page of your favorite sites and look for "analytics". Google is tracking each and every one of your visits there as well.

You many not use gmail, but how many of your friends do? Do they email you? Oops, all those conversations belong to Google as well.

I could go on, but I think you get the picture. It's good that you're aware enough of the problem to not use their services directly - it's a start, but you need to do a lot more to be even a little bit effective. As someone else mentioned, Little Snitch is awesome. Also, learn how to use your /etc/hosts file to outright block things like google's analytics, doubleclick, etc.

Beyond those things, make sure to let your friends and family know about these things. The biggest thing Google has in its favor is people's ignorance. That can be solved by education.

You're welcome. ;-)

VERY good post ;-) good job, thanx. I do see that stupid +1 button and Like button and Google and Facebook ads everywhere, thats unavoidable, but I do go through alot more than the average Joe to avoid the Google and Facebook World. Surprisingly, no one I know that I have to email has a gmail acct LOL odd, I know, but its true. Bellsouth.net, ATT.net, yahoo.com, msn.com, etc.

Awareness people! Ignorance about this evil company is definately an abundance out there!
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post #83 of 108
2/22/12 at 6:16am
to all safari users who don't like this stuff, just install adblock and do not track plus

i haven't seen any ads in my browser for last 3-4 months

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post #84 of 108
2/22/12 at 6:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

Google is laughing at your efforts. You have to do a lot more than that to stay out of Google's "Eye of Sauron". ( It should be the "Eye of Google" ! )

Do you visit any web sites that contain Google's advertisements? If so, Google is tracking each and every one of your page views on those sites. And correlating them with your visits to other sites and everything else they gather.

Do you visit any web sites that use Google analytics? Millions of sites do, just do View Source on the home page of your favorite sites and look for "analytics". Google is tracking each and every one of your visits there as well.

You many not use gmail, but how many of your friends do? Do they email you? Oops, all those conversations belong to Google as well.

I could go on, but I think you get the picture. It's good that you're aware enough of the problem to not use their services directly - it's a start, but you need to do a lot more to be even a little bit effective. As someone else mentioned, Little Snitch is awesome. Also, learn how to use your /etc/hosts file to outright block things like google's analytics, doubleclick, etc.

Beyond those things, make sure to let your friends and family know about these things. The biggest thing Google has in its favor is people's ignorance. That can be solved by education.

You're welcome. ;-)

While that's true, don't downplay even the minor efforts that people make.

I will not use Google search or Google Docs or any of the other products that are offered directly to consumers. If enough people do even that small amount, it will have an impact. For example, as specs show Google's search market share declining, it will affect Google's ability to get advertising as well as the advertising rates they can charge.

I also never click on ads. Even if I see something interesting in an ad, I will search for it (with Yahoo!) and then go there. Again, if people stop clicking on ads, it will reduce the amount that advertisers will pay.

Does Google care about my three computers? Nope. But if millions of people do the same thing, they HAVE to care.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #85 of 108
2/22/12 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hexx View Post

to all safari users who don't like this stuff, just install adblock and do not track plus

i haven't seen any ads in my browser for last 3-4 months

No, that's not at all what we're talking about.
Suddenly Newton
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Suddenly Newton
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post #86 of 108
2/22/12 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

While that's true, don't downplay even the minor efforts that people make.

I will not use Google search or Google Docs or any of the other products that are offered directly to consumers. If enough people do even that small amount, it will have an impact. For example, as specs show Google's search market share declining, it will affect Google's ability to get advertising as well as the advertising rates they can charge.

I also never click on ads. Even if I see something interesting in an ad, I will search for it (with Yahoo!) and then go there. Again, if people stop clicking on ads, it will reduce the amount that advertisers will pay.

Does Google care about my three computers? Nope. But if millions of people do the same thing, they HAVE to care.

nope, it won't change anything.

what needs to change is rules. there must be clearly defined set of rules which every company has to follow or face legal action.

there must clearly specified and explained in easy to understand manner to users what tracking and advertising is, how it works, how to opt-out.

there must be no room for fucking around it, simply either full compliance or face legal actions.

i hate ads and whole ads business model on the internet. i work as a web dev and yes, i do also implement some of this shit and it's nasty in so many ways.

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post #87 of 108
2/22/12 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, that's not at all what we're talking about.

you probably missed that DNP bit

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post #88 of 108
2/22/12 at 7:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hexx View Post

you probably missed that DNP bit

No, I didn't. That doesn't work.
Suddenly Newton
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post #89 of 108
2/22/12 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, I didn't. That doesn't work.

could you please be more specific? i'd like to sort this stuff out once for all.

adblock and dnp seem to be doing the job for me but if you're aware of something please share with us.

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post #90 of 108
2/22/12 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hexx View Post

could you please be more specific? i'd like to sort this stuff out once for all.

adblock and dnp seem to be doing the job for me but if you're aware of something please share with us.

AdBlock and the Do Not Track extensions don't stop these cookies from getting through. At least not for me.
Suddenly Newton
I actually use my phone. It's not some self-esteem crutch.
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Suddenly Newton
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post #91 of 108
2/22/12 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

AdBlock and the Do Not Track extensions don't stop these cookies from getting through. At least not for me.

have you also opted out from all ads networks via google's ads preferences and via NAI?

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post #92 of 108
2/22/12 at 8:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hexx View Post

have you also opted out from all ads networks via google's ads preferences and via NAI?

Absolutely. Though "Google's ad preferences" that only sounds like it would do anything if I had an active Google account, either as an end-user or an advertiser, and I don't, really.
Suddenly Newton
I actually use my phone. It's not some self-esteem crutch.
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post #93 of 108
2/22/12 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Not yet. They are seeking class action status.

sign me up!
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post #94 of 108
2/22/12 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Absolutely. Though… "Google's ad preferences"… that only sounds like it would do anything if I had an active Google account, either as an end-user or an advertiser, and I don't, really.

there are 2 states, for logged in and logged out users. as logged out you have different session ID, you can still opt out as logged out user:

http://www.google.com/settings/ads/onweb/

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post #95 of 108
2/22/12 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

While that's true, don't downplay even the minor efforts that people make.

I will not use Google search or Google Docs or any of the other products that are offered directly to consumers. If enough people do even that small amount, it will have an impact. For example, as specs show Google's search market share declining, it will affect Google's ability to get advertising as well as the advertising rates they can charge.

I also never click on ads. Even if I see something interesting in an ad, I will search for it (with Yahoo!) and then go there. Again, if people stop clicking on ads, it will reduce the amount that advertisers will pay.

Does Google care about my three computers? Nope. But if millions of people do the same thing, they HAVE to care.

I agree. I never click on ads either. Havent in over 10 yrs when the last time I did gave me a virus. So Ill also search through Yahoo for something that looks appealing in an ad. 9 times outta 10 its bogus anyway. So I dont do ads. Even if I see and ad for, say Chevrolet, I will open a new page and type in www.chevrolet.com cuz that is so much safer!

We just have to hit Google where it hurts. In their search and advertising business. Their share will start to decline sooner or later.
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post #96 of 108
2/22/12 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDavid311 View Post

I agree. I never click on ads either. Havent in over 10 yrs when the last time I did gave me a virus. So Ill also search through Yahoo for something that looks appealing in an ad. 9 times outta 10 its bogus anyway. So I dont do ads. Even if I see and ad for, say Chevrolet, I will open a new page and type in www.chevrolet.com cuz that is so much safer!

We just have to hit Google where it hurts. In their search and advertising business. Their share will start to decline sooner or later.

it won't hurt them. google's revenue comes from ads. they own so many ads networks who implement their ads all over the place.

by not using google's search you're just getting away from ads displayed on google's search engine.

legislation needs to change. strict simple rules and punishment.

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post #97 of 108
2/22/12 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

This is why I personally use a Littlesnitch, it told me about all Google little tricks of phoning home when I did not want them doing it. . .

The other thing I do when I use google for searching for information I run my connection via proxy server somewhere else in the world. This way they can not track it back to my home location. Face it Google goal in live is to know you better than you know yourself and then share that information with anyone who is willing to pay for. Most all of you freely give up your rights when you get free google accounts, you exchange your privacy for free things.

Meanwhile, back at your bank...

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/bank...py-on-you.aspx

Seems silly to be so concerned about a cookie on your computer in comparison, don't you think? Yeah, the cookie's weren't right. Tell me how you plan to control what bank and others in the credit and financial markets know about you. Perhaps deal only in cash? Shut down your cellphone too so the telcos can't track you either and record your texts, who you call and when? Live off the grid?

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #98 of 108
2/22/12 at 12:22pm
Just an FYI...

Google's new unified privacy policy is to take effect March 1st. Rather than have several different and separate products each with their own published policy, Google will combine them all into one. While better and clearer in some ways, and certainly easier to "opt-out" of, it also unifies all your search and use results which some users might not be comfortable with.

If that's you, then read this and follow the instructions prior to March 1st. Easy enough to do and you can't say I didn't mention it.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/0...y-takes-effect

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #99 of 108
2/22/12 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hexx View Post

it won't hurt them. google's revenue comes from ads. they own so many ads networks who implement their ads all over the place.

by not using google's search you're just getting away from ads displayed on google's search engine.

legislation needs to change. strict simple rules and punishment.

But not clicking on ads DOES hurt them. As the click-through percentage drops, advertisers are likely to pay less per ad. In fact, this is already happening - ad rates have been falling for some time.
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Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #100 of 108
2/22/12 at 6:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepro View Post

Everybody hop on the burn Google bandwagon!! Most people are blowing this waaay out of proportion, either due to ignorance, misunderstanding, or an over eager willingness to bash google. Ridiculous.

Where's your argument? What misunderstandings, please explain? They are circumventing a users privacy settings. Why is that okay?
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post #101 of 108
2/22/12 at 6:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

According to the WSJ, Google disabled the "workaround" a few days ago after being outed and no longer uses it. The cookie reloading issue you have probably isn't due to Google now. More likely the same trick that Google used is still in action served up by various other websites.

EDIT: I was searching background on Stanford researcher Jonathan Mayer who reported Google's use of the Safari backdoor (apparently first blogged about a couple of years ago? And Apple had no idea?) and see that this cookie-fest isn't his first. He's apparently a well-regarded expert having outed Microsoft in August last year for it's use of Super-cookies. Nearly impossible to delete and with no opt-out button for . . . Safari or Google's Chrome? Like Google they said it was unintentional of course.
http://www.geek.com/articles/news/mi...s-it-20110822/

You always seem to try to find some rationalization for Google's anti consumer behavior. Why is that? It's just wrong, no matter who is doing it. MS did it! Other's are doing it! So therefore Google is just doing what others have already done! Nice.
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post #102 of 108
2/22/12 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splif View Post

You always seem to try to find some rationalization for Google's anti consumer behavior. Why is that? It's just wrong, no matter who is doing it. MS did it! Other's are doing it! So therefore Google is just doing what others have already done! Nice.

I've consistently said Google's bypassing of Safari cookie controls wasn't right and I didn't agree with it.

The point of that particular link is noting that MS isn't entering the discussion with clean hands. Their complaint isn't out of an overwhelming sense that dropping cookies that users might not be aware of is just wrong. That doesn't make it OK for Google.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #103 of 108
2/22/12 at 6:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Meanwhile, back at your bank...

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/bank...py-on-you.aspx

Seems silly to be so concerned about a cookie on your computer in comparison, don't you think? Yeah, the cookie's weren't right. Tell me how you plan to control what bank and others in the credit and financial markets know about you. Perhaps deal only in cash? Shut down your cellphone too so the telcos can't track you either and record your texts, who you call and when? Live off the grid?

Nice spin. The concern is the blatant circumvention of the users wishes. Makes you wonder what else they are doing. As soon as they get caught & it becomes an issue they say they have stopped doing it. If nothing is wrong with the practice why stop? Google is burning a lot of bridges.
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post #104 of 108
2/22/12 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I've consistently said Google's bypassing of Safari cookie controls wasn't right and I didn't agree with it.

The point of that particular link is noting that MS isn't entering the discussion with clean hands. Their complaint isn't out of an overwhelming sense that dropping cookies that users might not be aware of is just wrong. That doesn't make it OK for Google.

Thanks for clarifying.
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post #105 of 108
2/22/12 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splif View Post

Thanks for clarifying.

You are welcome

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #106 of 108
2/26/12 at 8:00pm
Hi - An old one but related. Does anybody have any ideas how to stop cookies in Safari? Even with Private Browsing on I still get dozens of cookies from mystery sources appearing literally seconds after I delete all cookies.

I'm working on switching to Opera at the moment - a royal pain because I spent a ton of time getting my safari bookmarks the way I want - hundreds of them. I really don't want to have to abandon all that, but the heck if I will be tracked and spammed by Google.

Oh, and as far as what can we do about Google? I just terminated my youtube account. Vimeo is fine - and youtube is kind of a royal waste of time. I nuked all of my google reader links - using netnewswire now. Changed Google from my default search. And I am seriously thinking of killing my gmail account. Seriously - the only way that company works is if they have traffic. While disruptive, it is really not that hard to vote with one's feet. I sure do not miss my olde hotmail account, and I am thinking that gmail is rapidly becoming more trouble than it's worth. Let's see their traffic drop by 50% - perhaps that will get them to recall that bit about not being evil.
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post #107 of 108
2/26/12 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by maczIzKool View Post

Hi - An old one but related. Does anybody have any ideas how to stop cookies in Safari? Even with Private Browsing on I still get dozens of cookies from mystery sources appearing literally seconds after I delete all cookies.

Have you enabled Block cookies: Always in Settings?

"Goodbyeee…"

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"Goodbyeee…"

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post #108 of 108
2/26/12 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Have you enabled Block cookies: Always in Settings?

Yes, of course! I had "Block Cookies" set to "From third parties and advertisers" but noticed tons of spam cookies piling up.

So I switched "Block cookies" to "Always" And they STILL show up. As I write this I have it set to "always" and have eight random cookies that showed up in the last 60 seconds since clicking "Remove All" Including one from Google.

Latest version of snow leopard in place - I'm pretty religious about system updates and version updates, though I'm sticking with Snow Leopard for now due to some technical software I use.
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